Why so much hate on Chipwerke?

[VtotheJ]

I have read countless threads on Chipwerke, Stage 1 tune, Stage 2 tune , Ultracharger, etc. There seems to be a negative stigma on Chipwerke, not sure why. I noticed in a thread with Pros and Cons that someone wrote "people will make fun of you for having a piggy back" under the Cons section. The gains are very close to Stage 1 for a fraction of the cost. Why the hate? When the weather gets better I plan to put the Chipwerke Stage 2 on. I already have the larger APR 187 pulley. Maybe I'll go Stage 1 tune eventually but I can't justify the cost considering it's my DD and the Chipwerke would be plenty of a power bump for me. Am I missing something?

[Iwantyourcar]

I have read countless threads on Chipwerke, Stage 1, Stage 2, Ultracharger, etc. There seems to be a negative stigma on Chipwerke, not sure why. I noticed in a thread with Pros and Cons that someone wrote "people will make fun of you for having a piggy back" under the Cons section. The gains are very close to Stage 1 for a fraction of the cost. Why the hate? When the weather gets better I plan to put the Chipwerke Stage 2 on. I already have the larger APR 187 pulley. Maybe I'll go Stage 1 eventually but I can't justify the cost considering it's my DD and the Chipwerke would be plenty of a power bump for me. Am I missing something?

Sounds pretty accurate. Don’t think you are missing anything.


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[SteveYem]

I don't know enough about the inner-workings of an ECU tune or exactly what the Chipwerke piggyback thing is doing, or how either of these options ultimately affect the well-being of the mechanical equipment on the car, but from my first-hand experience I can confirm that the Chipwerke piggyback unit gave my car a noticeable boost in performance, comparable to the boost I felt from my stage 1 tune but with somewhat jerky power delivery.

[doughboy17]

I'm not sure I would call it hate. My understanding is the limitation is that overall driveability of the piggyback is not as good as a flashed tune.

[VtotheJ]

I'm not sure I would call it hate. My understanding is the limitation is that overall driveability of the piggyback is not as good as a flashed tune.

I see. Are you referring to the jerkiness/inconsistent power delivery of Chipwerke as @SteveYem also mentioned?

[hilmar2k]

A tune feels like a stock car, but with more power. Based on some user experience I have read, you can tell the Chipwerke is there. Adds power, but just not as seamlessly as a tune does. With the sales going on right now, no excuse not to just get tuned. Spend the ~$750 for EPL stage 1 and borrow a cable.

[Dr GP]

IMHO, with a Chipwerke you actually get more than you pay for in comparison to the more expensive ECU tunes. You pay your money and you make your choice. iI you are unhappy with the Chipwerke,you unplug it and sell it. If you buy an ECU tune, you pay a lot more for it and have no resale value. Apples VS oranges.

[Chris@EPL]

IMHO, with a Chipwerke you actually get more than you pay for in comparison to the more expensive ECU tunes. You pay your money and you make your choice. iI you are unhappy with the Chipwerke,you unplug it and sell it. If you buy an ECU tune, you pay a lot more for it and have no resale value. Apples VS oranges.

Except we let you transfer or sell the tune.

[hilmar2k]

How about finding someone local with Chipwerke and someone tuned and compare. Where in NY are you? I'm stage 1 EPL and would be happy to let you see what it feels like.

[sacandagaD]

As a long time user of a CW Pro in both my S4's, I can say that it has had the appeal of a nice low cost bump in power, combined with being able to unplug it easily, before going to dealer for warranty work. To me, that convenience/cost has been worth the slight driveability trade-off. Obviously ECU tune owners can just reflash before going and most are fine doing so.

I'm now approaching 50k and my warranty ending, and do plan on getting an ECU tune along with the TCU tune in the near future ( Hello Chris!), but the CW has definitely bridged some of the performance gap very economically up to now. It has also become apparent to me after owning the B8 and 8.5, that the 8.5 definitely needs a TCU tune and you can't get that with the CW.

[Chris@EPL]

As a long time user of a CW Pro in both my S4's, I can say that it has had the appeal of a nice low cost bump in power, combined with being able to unplug it easily, before going to dealer for warranty work. To me, that convenience/cost has been worth the slight driveability trade-off. Obviously ECU tune owners can just reflash before going and most are fine doing so.

I'm now approaching 50k and my warranty ending, and do plan on getting an ECU tune along with the TCU tune in the near future ( Hello Chris!), but the CW has definitely bridged some of the performance gap very economically up to now. It has also become apparent to me after owning the B8 and 8.5, that the 8.5 definitely needs a TCU tune and you can't get that with the CW.

We have our tax sale on now.

[VtotheJ]

How about finding someone local with Chipwerke and someone tuned and compare. Where in NY are you? I'm stage 1 EPL and would be happy to let you see what it feels like.
I will PM you. Haven't put CW on yet.


As a long time user of a CW Pro in both my S4's, I can say that it has had the appeal of a nice low cost bump in power, combined with being able to unplug it easily, before going to dealer for warranty work. To me, that convenience/cost has been worth the slight driveability trade-off. Obviously ECU tune owners can just reflash before going and most are fine doing so.

I'm now approaching 50k and my warranty ending, and do plan on getting an ECU tune along with the TCU tune in the near future ( Hello Chris!), but the CW has definitely bridged some of the performance gap very economically up to now. It has also become apparent to me after owning the B8 and 8.5, that the 8.5 definitely needs a TCU tune and you can't get that with the CW.

I still can't figure out from your post how the tune is more beneficial than the CW. If anything it sounds like the other way around especially when factoring in cost.

[chilort]

I still can't figure out from your post how the tune is more beneficial than the CW. If anything it sounds like the other way around especially when factoring in cost.

I think most of the hate I see for the CW is on FB not on this forum. On this forum, the feedback about the CW is largely positive.

I ran a stage 2 CW for a while but I also wanted the DSG tune. I probably could have kept the CW with a DSG tune but I didn't think that was the right path. I will add that the EPL stage 2 does provide smoother power delivery over the CW. I have also been running some E85 now that I have a stage 2 tune and that makes a noticeable difference.

The CW is an inexpensive way to get your thrills and you can always decide to offload the CW later in the classifieds here if you want to move to a tune over the piggyback.

[Mrko4]

I also am looking at CW due to the fact the car I just purchased is CPO still. Do they have different fuel maps?

[RacrX]

Have had one on my B8.5 for a year and love it. Just now going to upgrade to Stage 2 and putting it up for sale soon. Great power for the money!

[Fresh.S4]

Folks who spend $1k + for a stage 1 toon want to feel better about their purchase, is what it really comes down to.

All of y'all new S4 owners need to stop buying into that bs pricing scheme. A great company should continue to advance the platform (offering e85, crackle/pops, larger tb, etc) regardless of holding into those obsurd high prices. That's what makes a company stand out above the rest. Sure, if s new platform comes out then yes a high price is justifiable but c'mon we're talking about a going on 9yr old platform. And I can bet you most tuners have already had access to the new files being released, they're just smart and not releasing them until enough of the market shows interest then using it as a marketing gimmick....

Yes a toon overall is better but only once you get into the fbo aspect.

[Solarsuplex]

CW tells the car a false reading in order to keep the car doing what it would like.

For instance. Under 100% throttle - it will tell the car that its receiving 50% less boost which then makes the car keep the bypass valve closed because it needs to hit its requested boost. In reality the car is making the requested boost but the OEM tune says to taper off at x psi. The CW fools the ECU into working to its benefit and creating more boost.

Great you got boost.

An ecu tune modifies the parameters as to what is defined as requested boost. Its built into the equation. No "tricking" the ecu with a modifier of the incoming data.

This is the reason i dislike piggybacks. They do serve their purpose. For example on the B9 platform where the ECU has not been cracked yet. The JB4 is providing those guys with tremendous benefits.

The CW on the B8 to me is like the lap band people put on their stomachs to feel full. Why do that when you could (hypothetically) reprogram the brain to be full at a specific volume of food. Thats just a stage 1 to stage 1 comparison. Once you start messing with more variables, TB, Meth, Fuel types, i would try to reduce the amount of variables and components that are modifying incoming data(CW) in favor of letting the ECU algorithms do what we(the tuner) has specified is correct.

In the end of the day, if you're about people making fun of you because of your purchasing choices you need to step back and think about what you really value.

[hilmar2k]

^^^ That's well said. I got a tune because I was more comfortable with a full tune than "tricking" the ECU. People who are happy with their CWs, that's great. Choices are good.

[digitalchris]

It's like the difference between an above-ground pool and an in-ground pool. People with the above-ground pool can say "Look at all the money I saved! It's the same thing; we both swim in it!" But is it, really?

[sacandagaD]

One could argue it's a gateway drug and leads to more sales of integrated tunes.

[ns8013]

While I test drove a 2012 S4 that was APR Stage 2 + TCU briefly, I don't have a lot of personal experience in this area yet. However, I have an S4 with a DSG, and I haven't seen much in the way of positive feedback in terms of CW and the DSG. If I had a manual, I'd probably give the CW a try, but since I don't, I want to use an ECU and TCU tune from the same vendor to ensure power delivery is as smooth as possible. I do wish tunes were a little cheaper on this platform, but it is what it is.

[chilort]

I haven't seen much in the way of positive feedback in terms of CW and the DSG.

I had no problems that I would attributed to the CW and my DSG. My DSG acted funky before the CW and it still sometimes acts funky even after the EPL TCU tune.

[Dr GP]

It's like the difference between an above-ground pool and an in-ground pool. People with the above-ground pool can say "Look at all the money I saved! It's the same thing; we both swim in it!" But is it, really?

Great analogy.

[NotQuickEnough]

Folks who spend $1k + for a stage 1 toon want to feel better about their purchase, is what it really comes down to.

All of y'all new S4 owners need to stop buying into that bs pricing scheme. A great company should continue to advance the platform (offering e85, crackle/pops, larger tb, etc) regardless of holding into those obsurd high prices. That's what makes a company stand out above the rest. Sure, if s new platform comes out then yes a high price is justifiable but c'mon we're talking about a going on 9yr old platform. And I can bet you most tuners have already had access to the new files being released, they're just smart and not releasing them until enough of the market shows interest then using it as a marketing gimmick....

Yes a toon overall is better but only once you get into the fbo aspect.Nailed it. Look up MHD tune for BMW M3/M4 S55... You get an android app for $299 + $149 for a bunch of maps. The S4 tuning scene is absolutely comical.

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[wangshuo1989]

You got what you paid for, plain and simple

[onlyaudis]

I was close to getting one but did not after I found out the tend to be jerky with our watered down 91 fuel and a DSG. if you are also at a higher altitude, the CW doesn't work as well as a tune either. My two Audi mechanics that I trust also do not like them at all --they don't like the way they do what they do. Obviously they work pretty well or there would be more tales of woe about them here. especially if you have access to 93 octane, and have a manual. 3 years on EPL stage 1 with the DSG tune, and my car feels smoother than stock.

[hellovaras]

I have read countless threads on Chipwerke, Stage 1 tune, Stage 2 tune , Ultracharger, etc. There seems to be a negative stigma on Chipwerke, not sure why. I noticed in a thread with Pros and Cons that someone wrote "people will make fun of you for having a piggy back" under the Cons section. The gains are very close to Stage 1 for a fraction of the cost. Why the hate? When the weather gets better I plan to put the Chipwerke Stage 2 on. I already have the larger APR 187 pulley. Maybe I'll go Stage 1 tune eventually but I can't justify the cost considering it's my DD and the Chipwerke would be plenty of a power bump for me. Am I missing something?

I recently got an ECU tune after having the CW on for a few months. It was not what I expected from a butt dyno perspective. This is only MY feeling on the subject, but CW v Stage 1 are pretty similar. No dyno, just my rear end.

[Solarsuplex]

I recently got an ECU tune after having the CW on for a few months. It was not what I expected from a butt dyno perspective. This is only MY feeling on the subject, but CW v Stage 1 are pretty similar. No dyno, just my rear end.

Which is a fairly standard outcome. The goal of both stage 1 ECU and CW is to hold the bypass valve closed to build more boost. They both do an effective job at achieving that.

[AerotusX]

I've used CW Pro for 1-2 months before returning it and going to Stage II. For the price, you can't beat it for cheap power. However, I couldn't deal with the laggy shifts and bogging on our DSG and cheap 91 gas. After converting to a proper Stage II, I have no regrets. You do get what you paid for. Just saving up for the TCU tune now.

[Fresh.S4]

I've used CW Pro for 1-2 months before returning it and going to Stage II. For the price, you can't beat it for cheap power. However, I couldn't deal with the laggy shifts and bogging on our DSG and cheap 91 gas. After converting to a proper Stage II, I have no regrets. You do get what you paid for. Just saving up for the TCU tune now.

To counter... I'm local to you with 91oct and a CW stage2. Never had an issue.

[Audi_Andrew19]

Folks who spend $1k + for a stage 1 toon want to feel better about their purchase, is what it really comes down to.

All of y'all new S4 owners need to stop buying into that bs pricing scheme. A great company should continue to advance the platform (offering e85, crackle/pops, larger tb, etc) regardless of holding into those obsurd high prices. That's what makes a company stand out above the rest. Sure, if s new platform comes out then yes a high price is justifiable but c'mon we're talking about a going on 9yr old platform. And I can bet you most tuners have already had access to the new files being released, they're just smart and not releasing them until enough of the market shows interest then using it as a marketing gimmick....

Yes a toon overall is better but only once you get into the fbo aspect.

I agree with this 100%. One of the main reasons I decided to give CW a shot was the ridiculous prices of some tunes. Granted, my experience CW hasn’t been perfect, but saving $700+ was way worth it for a DD and overall I’ve enjoyed my time with it.

I understand the concept of “pay to play”, as this is a high-end car. But as you mentioned the platform is getting on 10 years old now and, (if I’m not mistaken), tune prices are still similar to where they were all those years ago.

If you want to go FBO, get a real tune and do it right by all means. But for the vast majority of owners who just want a nice boost in performance with stage 1, buying into that premium is frustrating.

[S4ilicious]

No Hate for the Chipwerke from me. I used to run it back when I was stock and it definitely made an improvement with the only downside that it wasnt as “smooth” like a true stage 1. Lagging between shifts as it was waiting for boost to biuld. But dyno wise very comparable to stage 1 from other tuners out there. Cant beat the Price imo

[Tuneman7]

It's like the difference between an above-ground pool and an in-ground pool. People with the above-ground pool can say "Look at all the money I saved! It's the same thing; we both swim in it!" But is it, really?

Yep, then the guy with the property on the beach (Aka, person with a more powerful car outright) stops by with his surf board and says Hi.

[sacandagaD]

The reality is our platform is now 9 years old, and higher mileage B8's will be selling for 10k very soon. So you might as well get used to the neighbors high school age kid having one, and putting a used CW on it. If you can't stand the thought, then maybe time to move on to a different model. [:p]

[ModItNow]

I have read countless threads on Chipwerke, Stage 1 tune, Stage 2 tune , Ultracharger, etc. There seems to be a negative stigma on Chipwerke, not sure why. I noticed in a thread with Pros and Cons that someone wrote "people will make fun of you for having a piggy back" under the Cons section. The gains are very close to Stage 1 for a fraction of the cost. Why the hate? When the weather gets better I plan to put the Chipwerke Stage 2 on. I already have the larger APR 187 pulley. Maybe I'll go Stage 1 tune eventually but I can't justify the cost considering it's my DD and the Chipwerke would be plenty of a power bump for me. Am I missing something?I had chipwerke on my car back in 2015/16. I was happy with it for over a year, before I went to a flash tune. I think a lot of people with DSG have experienced shift lags but some haven't. I have a manuel so that was never an issue for me. Another thing is chipwerke makes good power with 93 octane or above. With straight 91 (here in CA) it doesn't make the power of a flash tune. I always run some e85 so again that wasn't an issue for me. I ultimately wanted max power so I went with a flash tune.

Biggest differences are chipwerke makes for a little bit of a clunky shifting and power delivery. Flash tunes are much smoother, shift much smoother resulting in more power into the next gear and the raised shift limit gives you more power as well. I went from chipwerke stage 2 to EPL stage 2 and I have to say the overall power was NOT night and day. On a budget chipwerke is awesome!

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[TexasDfwS4]

While I test drove a 2012 S4 that was APR Stage 2 + TCU briefly, I don't have a lot of personal experience in this area yet. However, I have an S4 with a DSG, and I haven't seen much in the way of positive feedback in terms of CW and the DSG. If I had a manual, I'd probably give the CW a try, but since I don't, I want to use an ECU and TCU tune from the same vendor to ensure power delivery is as smooth as possible. I do wish tunes were a little cheaper on this platform, but it is what it is.

This is how I felt about it and Unitronic was really good about matching the two, plus tune from home was great as well.

[Ford Prefect]

I replaced my CW because it tricks the ECU which was causing me to run lean. Not aggressively lean but to the point that with my high mileage it wasn’t worth the risk.

Big props on EPL and flashing from home. Their tune is great and they now have data logging if you have the cable (and they set you up). If you don’t like the prices look for a sale. But why would anyone drop their prices when they are selling? The market dictates price, not someone who thinks it’s unfair.

With the amount of used untuned S4’s out there why would anyone drop their price? That’s silly. Dollar for dollar it’s cheap, reliable power. I’m also guessing it’s peanuts compared to trying to get a performance shop to custom tune it.

All that aside, I liked the CW on my 6MT but I bought at 90k miles and wanted a proper tune.

Edit: and stage 2 DP is f*cking outrageous.

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[jhoffy22]

I have a CW stage 1 on my 59k miles 2015 6MT S4 and it's great. 93 octane where I live too. No noticeable drivability difference.

Given that I am manual and have access to 93 octane gas, any reason to make the switch to EPL when I go stage 2? Or will the difference be negligible between EPL stage 2 and CW stage 2?

[Chris@EPL]

Yes Stage 2 with our tune is still a very noticeable difference over the CW in terms on power, smoothness, etc. Plus getting the Higher RPM shifts were the car is making basically max power. PM sent

[Ford Prefect]

I have a CW stage 1 on my 59k miles 2015 6MT S4 and it's great. 93 octane where I live too. No noticeable drivability difference.

Given that I am manual and have access to 93 octane gas, any reason to make the switch to EPL when I go stage 2? Or will the difference be negligible between EPL stage 2 and CW stage 2?

This is what I did. Stage 2 CW to stage 2 EPL. Dual pulley shortly after. Stage 2 with EPL is much better than CW. My opinion, no data. But my butt dyno agrees.


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[Stickshift4me]

I still have a lot of warranty left on my 16. Are there any tunes out there that will not get flagged TD1?

[sacandagaD]

I still have a lot of warranty left on my 16. Are there any tunes out there that will not get flagged TD1?

There are no absolute guarantees with anything tune related, and if anyone says otherwise, they are misleading you. A Piggy plugs in and out, and tunes can be reflashed to stock, but if someone digs enough, they can find something has been changed. Basic maintenance and non-engine related repairs most likely won't get a second look, but blow your motor or something under warranty, or expensive to fix, and they could look much harder.

Just be prepared to pay to play. [drive]