Why Aren’t Tuners Doing This for Emissions?

[zzzz05725]

Hi all,
I would like to begin a very specific discussion about passing emissions and visual inspection with gutted cats, and what I’m surprised to see tuners not doing. For the record I am still stock with original cats, but I don’t plan to be forever.

I came from a JHM stage 2 B7 A4 2.0T. I am surprised to see that passing OBD2 emissions with gutted cats on a B8 is not effortless like it was on the B7 A4/S4 platform with JHM tunes (usually with piggies or a test pipe). I believe JHM B8 S5 4.2 tunes pass effortlessly as well for catless customers. If I’m correct, JHM never coded out rear O2’s or forced readiness, they simply changed paramaters that were used to trigger a Cat efficiency code to a value or condition that could never be reached. This way customers didn’t even need a J-bung to prevent a cat efficiency code, which would have failed visual for some of them. Readiness ran and passed when appropriate, and failed or was incomplete when appropriate. This is all vital to passing OBD2 emissions in some areas.

My question is: Why is it that tuners (such as APR i believe) are still offering “test pipe files” that fail emissions? Or worse, just expecting catless customers to have a CEL on all the time? At this time, catless 3.0T customers have to choose one or the other. Would it not make more sense for ALL tuners to edit their normal files to simply have exaggerated parameters that don’t trigger a cat efficiency code when catless? Legality is not my question, JHM simply made customers acknowledge that the tune is for off-road use. It is understood that their customers will still pass OBD2 emissions catted or catless.

I request that only users who are highly familiar with what I’m talking about and tuners participate, as this could get very off-topic. If I am incorrect on anything, then clarification is appreciated as I’m going off of old knowledge from my previous car. During this discussion please do not suggest AREA74 simulators or J-bungs unless you have them working 100% perfect, but only briefly as they are off topic.

Thanks all, sorry for the length of the post


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[03redgti]

All you need are straight vibrant o2 spacers.. /thread

[zzzz05725]

All you need are straight vibrant o2 spacers.. /thread

I appreciate the input but do not /thread me as they fail visual and are off topic


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[03redgti]

I appreciate the input but do not /thread me as they fail visual and are off topic


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If you fail for a straight o2 spacer on a gutted cat go to a different shop..that is ridiculous. Also after a few diesel tuners getting busted and fined for coding out emissions most tuners don't want to risk the EPA showing up on their door steps. We don't have visual inspections here in pa so straight spacers work perfect..I could see a shop possibly failing for a j or 90 degree spacer but the straight spacers on gutted cats are barely noticeable.

[theweebabyseamus]

If you fail for a straight o2 spacer on a gutted cat go to a different shop..that is ridiculous.

You’re not from CA. Lol, OP’s description is accurate. Any shop that’s not doing an illegal smog will fail you here, provided they see the spacer.

[03redgti]

You’re not from CA. Lol, OP’s description is accurate. Any shop that’s not doing an illegal smog will fail you here, provided they see the spacer.

paint it to match the stock pipes haha

[nick0188]

1. After the shit show that BullyDog just went through which ended in millions of dollars in fines for emissions related tunes, I'm assuming most tuners are walking the fine line on emissions stuff. It's one thing to offer a test pipe file and say it's for off road use only, it's another to blatantly defeat emissions monitors to fool inspections.

2. Vibrant J spacers work. I've been on gutted cuts for a year with these and have never once had a code.

3. Spacers do not fail visual, a missing cat would. If the place you're going is failing for a spacer you need to go somewhere else, as it's 100% legal to have spacers.

[zzzz05725]

1. After the shit show that BullyDog just went through which ended in millions of dollars in fines for emissions related tunes, I'm assuming most tuners are walking the fine line on emissions stuff. It's one thing to offer a test pipe file and say it's for off road use only, it's another to blatantly defeat emissions monitors to fool inspections.

2. Vibrant J spacers work. I've been on gutted cuts for a year with these and have never once had a code.

3. Spacers do not fail visual, a missing cat would. If the place you're going is failing for a spacer you need to go somewhere else, as it's 100% legal to have spacers.

Fair enough, increased risk could certainly matter for tuners that don’t want to market off-road use only. I see nothing wrong with marketing for off-road use


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[bhvrdr]

3. Spacers do not fail visual, a missing cat would. If the place you're going is failing for a spacer you need to go somewhere else, as it's 100% legal to have spacers.

Using a spacer to avoid emission control devices from obtaining a true reading of cat inefficiency is of course not legal.

[nick0188]

Using a spacer to avoid emission control devices from obtaining a true reading of cat inefficiency is of course not legal.

You could be using a spacer for numerous reasons. I guess maybe it’s a gray area, but unless you say “hey I have a spacer and am using it to defeat emissions” nobody would fail it for that. The cat is still “there.”

On that note, unless you’re going to a specialized Audi garage or someone who really knows this engine, 95% of people will never realize the cats come straight off the manifolds.


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[03redgti]

You could be using a spacer for numerous reasons. I guess maybe it’s a gray area, but unless you say “hey I have a spacer and am using it to defeat emissions” nobody would fail it for that. The cat is still “there.”

On that note, unless you’re going to a specialized Audi garage or someone who really knows this engine, 95% of people will never realize the cats come straight off the manifolds.


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exactly..i've heard of shops that won't remove the baby resonators because they think they are cats lol..

[Fresh.S4]

arent toons in general illegal? are designed for 'off road use only'?? hence why you can earn a td1.. and dealers can deny you warranty etc...

so to have them modify the emissions parameters isnt that far off from modifying the parameters of boost/fuel/ timing etc??

[Robdukes]

arent toons in general illegal? are designed for 'off road use only'?? hence why you can earn a td1.. and dealers can deny you warranty etc...

so to have them modify the emissions parameters isnt that far off from modifying the parameters of boost/fuel/ timing etc??Definitely not illegal. Just voids warranty for anything they can blame the TD1 on. They can't fine or arrest you for it. So wouldn't call it illegal, just frowned upon by car manufacturer.

Don't mean to get off topic. Im also interested in the discussion. Im in PA but in a county that does emissions. And one time they just popped the hood, but other time it was on the lift. So not sure they would see it ..but a possibility.

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[zzzz05725]

I request that we move the topic of conversation away from legality and back to suggested software changes/off-road tunes. I researched the Bully Dog fine and those tuners are not marketed for off-road use only.


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[thaifoodninja]

don't know about Cali but in MA once you fail inspection and they slap a Reject stick on the windshield, you HAVE to retest at that exact location that failed you. You can't go shop around until you get the answer you're looking for.

[Tony@EPL]

I request that we move the topic of conversation away from legality and back to suggested software changes/off-road tunes. I researched the Bully Dog fine and those tuners are not marketed for off-road use only.


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Marketing a product "for off road use only" has very little to no protection to the manufacturer once they know of one occurrence of their product being used on a public road.

[zzzz05725]

Marketing a product "for off road use only" has very little to no protection to the manufacturer once they know of one occurrence of their product being used on a public road.

Thank you for the comment, I was not aware that the tuner could be held liable for the customer’s misuse.


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