Clutch trouble?

[67Twisty]

I've been experiencing a strange transmission "shudder/bucking" at low rpms - typically in second gear (6 speed Getrag). Clutch pedal action is normal with no signs of slippage or master/slave cylinder issues. Current Motul 300 fill in the gearbox. ~125k miles on the original clutch. Any ideas? Bad pressure plate? Seems more like clutch chatter than slippage if that makes sense to anyone.

[canadianA4B7]

The 2 pieces of the 2 piece flywheel may have separated.

[bwdysart]

The 2 pieces of the 2 piece flywheel may have separated.

Generally, if this were to happen would it still hold power at high rpm? I have a shudder/buck issue too


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[canadianA4B7]

Mine was split and it still held to higher rpms with no issue. Cant say everyone will have the same experience. But I had similar shudder down low. Not much bucking just slight stuff down low. Mine was rare though. Builder drove it around for a few days b4 tear down he didn’t notice as much as I was explaining.

[67Twisty]

It seems inconsistent/infrequent with mine. I can drive it around some days and no issues - clutch pick-up is normal and shifts are smooth. And then other days I get the shudder and bucking in second. It doesn’t pop out of gear and no problems shifting between gears. Guess it’s time to replace it but thought I would have other symptoms like change in pedal effort/fluctuating rpms.

[67Twisty]

Plan to replace the rear main seal when the clutch and flywheel are out. Has anyone used the Mahle/Victor Reinz seal or is it best to stick with the Audi OE flange in this location? And as far as clutch kits go, no plans for BT or more power so is LuK the OE replacement?

[canadianA4B7]

Plan to replace the rear main seal when the clutch and flywheel are out. Has anyone used the Mahle/Victor Reinz seal or is it best to stick with the Audi OE flange in this location? And as far as clutch kits go, no plans for BT or more power so is LuK the OE replacement?

Rear main seal I wud 100% go to iabed industries and get his billet unit. Regardless of price this is the only piece I would spend a penny on. And I’ve replaced it on each build I’ve done, before his came to market.

As for clutch I’d say get a single mass flywheel in steel if you like the way things feel oem. The RA4 unit from ECS I would think is a fair priced unit for your car it will work with most setups up to BT builds and likely as oem feeling as you can get.

[Jake@JHM]

Check out or new Chrome-Moly Forged Single-Mass Lightweight Flywheel & Clutch Combo:

https://jhmotorsports.com/jhm-lightweight-flywheel-and-clutch-combo-w-b7-rs4-pressure-plate-for-b7-a4-2-0t.html

[67Twisty]

Have you sold many of the chrome moly versions? Does it transfer more NVH on a street driven daily?

[Jake@JHM]

Have you sold many of the chrome moly versions? Does it transfer more NVH on a street driven daily?

Not as many as our aluminum offering, as we just made it available to the mass public. We have been running this flywheel in house for a couple years now and it transfers less than the aluminum flywheel. The Chrome-moly is a better option for street cars although both work great.

[charmar]

Your website says they're out of stock. When will they be available again?
Check out or new Chrome-Moly Forged Single-Mass Lightweight Flywheel & Clutch Combo:

https://jhmotorsports.com/jhm-lightweight-flywheel-and-clutch-combo-w-b7-rs4-pressure-plate-for-b7-a4-2-0t.html

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[Jake@JHM]

Your website says they're out of stock. When will they be available again?

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Works for me? Can give us a call if you need help purchasing - 209-968-0077

[canadianA4B7]

Not as many as our aluminum offering, as we just made it available to the mass public. We have been running this flywheel in house for a couple years now and it transfers less than the aluminum flywheel. The Chrome-moly is a better option for street cars although both work great.

But like 1.5 years ago when I purchased my aluminum flywheel you guys said “we all run the aluminum flywheel right now and love it”. Why wasn’t there any talk of this alternate unit?

[Jake@JHM]

But like 1.5 years ago when I purchased my aluminum flywheel you guys said “we all run the aluminum flywheel right now and love it”. Why wasn’t there any talk of this alternate unit?

I don't recall that conversation with you, however we don't mention most products that are in testing because don't know if it would make it to market. There are a handful of products that we have tested over the years that we ended up not offering because either it did nothing, wasn't strong enough, or results per dollar ratio wasn't there etc.

Additionally, there are employees who stayed with the aluminum flywheel because they wanted the additional weight savings. Either way both a great options.

[apriliapilot]

I'm gonna thread-jack a little but my question is related.

I have a driveline shudder around 2800rpm, it is especially noticible under decelleration. I've checked the driveshaft bearing for play and replaced my motor and trans mounts (they had failed, not in an attempt to diagnose) and the shudder is as pronounced as before.

Is there any diagnostic tests (physical, NOT VAGCOM obviously) you can do? I really don't want to do a clutch and flywheel if I don't absolutely have to.

[67Twisty]

The drivetrain shudder or vibration is not something software or a sensor will pick-up so it's hard to diagnose. Mine occurs when accelerating in second gear. I'm pretty sure mine is being caused by a worn flywheel so I ordered both the clutch kit and flywheel. I replaced my motor mounts a few years ago and will replace my transmission mount when I drop it to do the other work. If yours is mostly occurring during deceleration, it could be worn drive shaft CV joints or a failing center support bearing.

[apriliapilot]

The drivetrain shudder or vibration is not something software or a sensor will pick-up so it's hard to diagnose. Mine occurs when accelerating in second gear. I'm pretty sure mine is being caused by a worn flywheel so I ordered both the clutch kit and flywheel. I replaced my motor mounts a few years ago and will replace my transmission mount when I drop it to do the other work. If yours is mostly occurring during deceleration, it could be worn drive shaft CV joints or a failing center support bearing.

Yeah, I am aware there won't be sensors throwing any fault codes.

I am asking if there are specific noises or ways to check for play without dropping the transmission. I have already checked the driveshaft support bearing as I had one of these go out on my last car. It was the very first thing I checked when I noticed the vibration.


Kind of a secondary question...

I know JHM sells an aluminum or Chrome-moly lightweight flywheel, and 034 has an aluminum flywheel kit as well. BUT 034 says their flywheel is the same as their flywheel for a 1990 Coupe Quattro, if this is the case, has anybody used a steel single mass from a 90/Cq? I would kind of like to maintain the factory behavior (I have noticed some guys complaining about the AL FW under daily driver conditions) and at the the same time ditch the stupid dual mass. The Clutch upgrade options for the CQ flywheel are plentiful if I ever needed more holding power (certainly would provide far more holding power than a built 2.ot will ever make)

[aluthman]

The jhm aluminum flywheel is fine for a daily driver. If you want a steel single mass flywheel though, Clutchmasters makes one for our cars. No need to gamble on one made for a different car.

[EvolutionArmory]

With 2 chromoly steel flywheels available that work for our cars that let you use the RS4 clutch, ECS and JHM, there’s really not much need to look any further.

The ECS flywheel gets checked for balance twice and has individual SFI serialization on each flywheel. And JHM says theirs is a SFI certified design. I don’t know if that means each flywheel is tested or just the one they used for testing.

I’d stick with either of those options because the RS4 clutch is a known performer.

[apriliapilot]

With 2 chromoly steel flywheels available that work for our cars that let you use the RS4 clutch, ECS and JHM, there’s really not much need to look any further.

The ECS flywheel gets checked for balance twice and has individual SFI serialization on each flywheel. And JHM says theirs is a SFI certified design. I don’t know if that means each flywheel is tested or just the one they used for testing.

I’d stick with either of those options because the RS4 clutch is a known performer.

Part of the reason for "looking further" is to find an equivalent option that might be cheaper or or the same price but offer better characteristics. The Coupe quattro clutch solutions are "known performers" as well. There are lots of options and they hold lots of power with a reasonable pedal feel. I drove a 750+hp Coupe in San Francisco and it was just a totally docile experience. If I want big power in the future (I don't) I could dump the OE level clutch and upgrade and STILL not be at the cost of a LWFW and clutch kit.

I could spend $1,100 plus to buy a lightweight flywheel and RS4 clutch, or I could nab a flywheel I already own (I literally have 4) and buy a clutch kit for $250-350 that will be more than acceptable at holding the power. I never intend to build a racecar so I really don't care about having a "lightweight" flywheel. Any performance improvement from an LWFW is going to be negligible on my stock+ car; the energy required to rotate the mass difference in the FW compared to the mass of car is just inconsequential in a road car.

I get that they are great products, but just because those are two great options doesn't mean there aren't other great options out there. When you have been wrenching on cars that have an increasingly long list of NLA parts, you learn to get creative and find solutions other people may not have thought of. If I could save $900 then why wouldn't I? That would put me a heck of a lot closer to buying a K04 or other mods that would be a way more noticeable change in performance. Heck $900 buys me a set of ST coilovers and I would way rather have that than a clutch that can hold more power that I will ever have.

[oVeRdOsE]

It seems inconsistent/infrequent with mine. I can drive it around some days and no issues - clutch pick-up is normal and shifts are smooth. And then other days I get the shudder and bucking in second. It doesn’t pop out of gear and no problems shifting between gears. Guess it’s time to replace it but thought I would have other symptoms like change in pedal effort/fluctuating rpms.

I had this exact same issue. I get use to it and learn to get into rpm that doesnt do that. My brother notice the same thing when I drove it like he drive is mazda, so hes not use to my car.

It really feels like the ESP system kick in.

I never found the issue, I can't tell if its gone. It rarely happens and I naturally adapted my driving habit to avoid it...

Murphy's law, its happening on red light against civics, but never on the 1/4 miles.
- Might because on 1/4 miles I turn off the ESP ? maybe.
- Engine mounts too soft?
-defect pedal clutch switch ?
- old dual mass flywheel with some play in it?

Anyway, since the last time I had this I got my clutch replaced (RA4), and new engine mounts. Running liquimolly oil GL4(trans) and GL5(diff).

[rhfosu]

The 2 pieces of the 2 piece flywheel may have separated.

When my flywheel was coming apart, it made a loud knocking/chatter sound at idle bc the top was flopping around. I always considered that to be the tell-tale sign.

[EvolutionArmory]

Part of the reason for "looking further" is to find an equivalent option that might be cheaper or or the same price but offer better characteristics. The Coupe quattro clutch solutions are "known performers" as well. There are lots of options and they hold lots of power with a reasonable pedal feel. I drove a 750+hp Coupe in San Francisco and it was just a totally docile experience. If I want big power in the future (I don't) I could dump the OE level clutch and upgrade and STILL not be at the cost of a LWFW and clutch kit.

I could spend $1,100 plus to buy a lightweight flywheel and RS4 clutch, or I could nab a flywheel I already own (I literally have 4) and buy a clutch kit for $250-350 that will be more than acceptable at holding the power. I never intend to build a racecar so I really don't care about having a "lightweight" flywheel. Any performance improvement from an LWFW is going to be negligible on my stock+ car; the energy required to rotate the mass difference in the FW compared to the mass of car is just inconsequential in a road car.

I get that they are great products, but just because those are two great options doesn't mean there aren't other great options out there. When you have been wrenching on cars that have an increasingly long list of NLA parts, you learn to get creative and find solutions other people may not have thought of. If I could save $900 then why wouldn't I? That would put me a heck of a lot closer to buying a K04 or other mods that would be a way more noticeable change in performance. Heck $900 buys me a set of ST coilovers and I would way rather have that than a clutch that can hold more power that I will ever have.

My post was going off the assumption that the person would be buying from scratch. If you have a flywheel already, saving money is always great.

There is a kit from 034 that uses the Coupe Quattro 240mm clutch and pressure plate but the flywheel is what makes the clutch work with our cars. I could be wrong and I hope I am but I don’t think you’ll be able to use your Coupe Quattro flywheel.

So I stand by my previous post.

[67Twisty]

I had this exact same issue. I get use to it and learn to get into rpm that doesnt do that. My brother notice the same thing when I drove it like he drive is mazda, so hes not use to my car.

It really feels like the ESP system kick in.

I never found the issue, I can't tell if its gone. It rarely happens and I naturally adapted my driving habit to avoid it...

Murphy's law, its happening on red light against civics, but never on the 1/4 miles.
- Might because on 1/4 miles I turn off the ESP ? maybe.
- Engine mounts too soft?
-defect pedal clutch switch ?
- old dual mass flywheel with some play in it?

Anyway, since the last time I had this I got my clutch replaced (RA4), and new engine mounts. Running liquimolly oil GL4(trans) and GL5(diff).

Same type of deal for me. It started about a year ago and remained relatively infrequent until now. Given my mileage and the fact I’m not the original owner, I guess I got decent life out of the original clutch.


When my flywheel was coming apart, it made a loud knocking/chatter sound at idle bc the top was flopping around. I always considered that to be the tell-tale sign.

I suspect this is what is happening to me. I found a good deal on a replacement DMF and clutch kit so I’m going to tackle swapping it in this weekend. Given its a heavy Quattro car and considering I have no plans for more power I’m ok staying stock for a more comfortable daily.

[67Twisty]

Anyone have tips/tricks for aligning the tranny bellhousing with motor on re-install? I used the plastic alignment tool and it readily slips in and out of the pilot bearing with no hang-ups, so I think I got the new flywheel and clutch/pressure plate lined-up right, but I can’t get the last 1 -1.5” of the bellhousing to mate up with the block. Not close enough to draw it in with the bolts anyways.

Unfortunately I’m doing the job with the motor still in the car so options for mating the two are more limited. I do have a proper transmission jack with fore/aft and side to side tilt features.