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View Full Version : Planning to conver non turbo 1.8 to t3/t4 turbo :P



Blazius
10-28-2018, 08:48 AM
Hello people,

So I'm planning to convert my NA 1.8 to turbo'd engine and I could use some help/insight from some experience people or anyone really :P. I have posted this over at nefmoto too, as that is what I'm going to use to flash the ECU (8D0 906 018 Q / 0 261 206 318 ECU with 99. august timestamp) with, and they given me some help, but I figured why not post it here too :P.

So currently as I am unemployed, everything is on hold until money gets sorted but I have got the ebay turbo so far, it has 8 psi internal WG ( good enough for now)

90825

90826

90827

So my plan is to get 1.8t Intercooler possibly , depending on how expensive they are, if they are expensive , could get an universal one, IAT/MAP on intake side ( apparently this is what people recommended me, even tho I am not 100% on how to wire it up to the MAF wiring/ECU ( IAT is in the MAF in NA cars)), oil/drain is straightforward, exhaust turbo manifold from ebay obv, bigger injectors, possibly fuel pump too ( not to crazy tho for now) , and possibly an used AEB intake manifold right? as the NA one is not suited for it, and that should be enough to get this cheap custom turbo'd engine running :P People also said that getting a wideband lambda would be really good/ way easier to tune , but the current ecu is narrowband soo..

So yeah any insight , help is welcome :) Thank you if you read it all :)

Blazius
10-29-2018, 10:16 PM
C'mon boys do not be shy :P

nunya
10-30-2018, 10:45 AM
You have an ADR motor? If so everything from the AEB should bolt up. I am not sure how the NA cams will perform.

--dillon

Blazius
10-30-2018, 11:17 AM
You have an ADR motor? If so everything from the AEB should bolt up. I am not sure how the NA cams will perform.

--dillon

I have an ARG , but yeah it is basically an ADR, the biggest issue is the tune/implementation of the system, got some books to read :P

EDIT: Also as I wrote I'm only planning to run 8 psi max for now so, the motor won't be changed, I need experience first :)

EDIT: AEB is a DBC , not DBW right? because my engine is electronic so I'm wondering if the MAF setup is enough or not , I know it's not the proper way to do a setup , also I hope if I get an AEB intake manifold I can bolt up my TB without issues , right ?

nunya
10-30-2018, 11:19 PM
ADR and AEB is DBC (same block, same head). The stock AEB maf housing/sensor is good for maybe ~240whp, if you put the stock sensor in and OBD1 VW maf housing you max out at about 300WHP on a mustand dyno. Then you need to move on to a pmas sensor with a 85mm housing which will get you 450whp+. Then move on to a MAP based setup.

I am not sure what "my engine is electronic" means...?

--dillon

Blazius
10-31-2018, 09:36 AM
ADR and AEB is DBC (same block, same head). The stock AEB maf housing/sensor is good for maybe ~240whp, if you put the stock sensor in and OBD1 VW maf housing you max out at about 300WHP on a mustand dyno. Then you need to move on to a pmas sensor with a 85mm housing which will get you 450whp+. Then move on to a MAP based setup.

I am not sure what "my engine is electronic" means...?

--dillon

as in ARG is not DBC but DBW , also I learned that AEB uses "fat stlye" injectors (EV1) if internet is to be trusted, so Im gonna look for an ATW which uses normal (ev6/12 injectors) manifold from a passat or something, and hoping my current TB just bolts up.

Blazius
11-01-2018, 05:32 AM
Soooo. I was about to go to somewhere, where at 5-6k RPM i hear some noise, and see the car lost power then oil lamp came on and pulled over immidietly.. Turns out the exhaust camshaft pulley came off.. RIP The pin literally broke which shouldnt be possible unless the integrity was damaged..which couldve been the case when I overheated the engine a bit , because of a bad gasket on radiator and it let all the water out..

Here are some pics, how are we looking ? I am really hoping it didnt do much damage.. Gonna quickly take some tools and a scanner, take off VC for now . The car is parked about 5km from home.

91318

91319

:(

More pics:

https://i.imgur.com/pfMs39I.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/SL5cLny.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/98Nphtt.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WfFVgx0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wjmHUBr.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ayMgrrh.jpg

Gotta get head off sometime soon.

nunya
11-01-2018, 12:09 PM
That stinks man....

Blazius
11-01-2018, 01:25 PM
That stinks man....

It does .. What I'll end up doing is buy a new engine pretty sure, and swap parts over , engines are like 100-200 usd here with 200k km~ or lower , dunno how to feel about rebuild ,as it would cost me triple the amount.. And if I want to do big boost, I'll get better stuff anyway.

Blazius
11-02-2018, 10:41 PM
So, my current plan is to get a new used engine and replace head (HOPEFULLY, depends how the lower block looks like when I pull the head today) , they are quite cheap 150-200 bucks ofcourse with some km's on them BUT I just want to get it running and run some mild 8 psi boost, until I want to upgrade to forged stuff to km's dont really matter.
People said I should rather get a turbo block cause they have forged pistons , and better exhaust valves, but ARG is the same ADR except its DBW, and ADR is the same as AEB as far as I know, , now I looked up an replacement pistons are MAHLE ORGINAL code 033 13 00 , OEM codes 058 107 065 J, 058 107 065 M - what I want to know if these pistons are forged or not, because if we go by that by ADR = AEB it should be , right ? I suppose I could write to MAHLE and see what they say about it.

Any info on this maybe ?

EDIT: Now replacement pistons for 1.8T AEB are MAHLE 033 04 00 , which is supposed to be forged, but I'd like to know the difference between the two ,except the CR obviously.

Blazius
11-05-2018, 03:00 AM
Well I got an answer back from MAHLE,

Hey x,

" The piston for the engine ARG is 033 13 00 and it is a casting piston.

The piston 033 04 00 is a forged piston and cannot be used for the engine ARG. "

That cleared my doubts, but not being able to use the forged pistons in the block is complete bollocks no ? same bore same wrist pin, why couldnt you use it ? :D
Still in the process of taking off head.. It's a 058 block with polydrive/ribe headbolts to my suprise so I have to buy some from the city, and hopefully they dont break or something, I didnt dare to do it with T50 torx.

Thomas.carpente
11-05-2018, 03:03 AM
I have a turbo manifold, intake manifold and turbo and lines for sale


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Blazius
11-05-2018, 03:37 AM
I have a turbo manifold, intake manifold and turbo and lines for sale


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am from Romania mate , but thanks :)

Blazius
11-05-2018, 08:19 AM
So apparently I cannot find a bloody RIBE/polydrive socket, so I really wanna take it out with a T50 Torx but I am afraid :D, how safe is it to attempt it ?

Blazius
11-06-2018, 05:58 AM
So finally took the head off, Pic linked , check it out dudes, any insight is welcome for whats the play here :D

https://imgur.com/a/km9Adx6 album link.

Honestly I feel like I am quite lucky :D, 1 intake valve bent , little clip on piston, 2 exhaust valve chip :P


EDIT: Why are cylinders so clean except cylinder 4 ?, the headgasket looked fine, car didnt smoke at all, but I was having hard starts for 1 time after 24 hours ish ( fuel pump prolly, had to double prime and hold pedal open a bit).

Blazius
11-07-2018, 12:29 AM
Anybody :P ?

GOODBYNAAIR
11-07-2018, 10:48 AM
What did the cyc 4 plug look like?? could be valve stem seals and or valve cover gasket letting oil by?

NA cams should be good. There is a thread about someone butting them in a turbo car. its around here somewheres

Blazius
11-07-2018, 11:37 AM
What did the cyc 4 plug look like?? could be valve stem seals and or valve cover gasket letting oil by?

NA cams should be good. There is a thread about someone butting them in a turbo car. its around here somewheres

It looks fine, though they were replaced 1000km ish ago so.. But i did keep the old one somewhere.

What about the engine though that is my main dilemma , I know you can use the cams but the issue is that the cam sprocket screw broke into the exhaust cam, also 2 lifters are stuck cause the screw damage, so min I would need an exhaust cam, 1 intake valve, possibly an intake cam.. That is already more than an used engine . an na block is around 150 usd, a turbo one is 250 or more. So i dont know what is the best play.

Keep in mind If i buy an na block i will try to boost it midly like the original idea was, but if i want higher power ill replace bottom end anyway.

A4 2.5TDI
11-07-2018, 12:14 PM
whx don"t you get a 1.8T engine they shouldn"t be that expensive

Blazius
11-07-2018, 12:48 PM
whx don"t you get a 1.8T engine they shouldn"t be that expensive

Because it would be more work than needed. a full 1.8t engine is quite damn expensive, and I kind of need to get the car running asap, and my current money situation does not allow buying an incomplete engine. Converting is the way next year.

A4 2.5TDI
11-07-2018, 10:07 PM
I don" t know how much money the 1.8T costs in your country but my friend sold a complete 1.8T engine for 100 without the wiring but that wouldn"t cost that much more. I like your work so keep on working like that and you will probaby have a working turbo engine

Blazius
11-08-2018, 12:51 AM
I don" t know how much money the 1.8T costs in your country but my friend sold a complete 1.8T engine for 100 without the wiring but that wouldn"t cost that much more. I like your work so keep on working like that and you will probaby have a working turbo engine

Dang, that was pretty cheap but yeah conversion is not THAt easy, because of wiring, different ecu, so yeah , will post yes for sure! For now I have to figure out what is the next step.

Blazius
11-09-2018, 09:51 AM
So looks like I am getting an AEB motor, now the AEB head is a large port head , how would that work with a small port na intake manifold, what about the gaskets, small port gasket or big port gasket ?

Blazius
11-12-2018, 01:22 AM
So update, just got myself a valve spring compressor also a proper headbolt tool, now about the engine ...

Blazius
11-14-2018, 03:56 PM
Update:

Received the engine today.. Looks to be allright condition , I will trust the sellers word.
Gonna open it up tommorow, the bolts/screws are painted so I will lose warranty, but its not a big issue anyway. I'll attach some pics.

https://imgur.com/a/Cv7Wfxl

Also ordered the rest of the stuff(gaskets, timing service etc.).

Blazius
11-15-2018, 01:43 PM
I took the cylinder head off today. Allright wear, except for the tensioner , its quite bad as you can see on the pictures below, but the valves are fine.
Alltogether I am satisfied with the purchase for the money. Gonna give the head a cleaning bath and hopefully goes in the car ASAP.

pics: https://imgur.com/a/nT57qyF

On pic number 2 the bottom of these holes are "broken" all the big holes , are these supposed to be like these or not?

Blazius
11-17-2018, 02:29 PM
So. Cleaning the head up .... have to wait till monday to get all the parts necessary for reinstal.

1 of clyinder 2 intake valves are leaking a bit towards the sparkplug, what could I do about it DIY without lapping compound ? or should I just leave it like that ?

Blazius
11-18-2018, 11:40 AM
So, getting the parts tommorow, got the cylinder all cleaned up, ready for assembly.
Im not looking forward to the valve keepers :P also I still dont know what to do about that one valve :/

Blazius
11-23-2018, 12:18 PM
I have started the car up today! Finally assambled everything related to the engine, filled up with oil and coolant etc.

Took a few crank but its working [:D]... well 1st start there was massive smoke , but kept the car running for like 5 mins, I noticed hydraulic lifter noise didnt get quiter, so I stopped the car.. i had a look for oil level and it was below min !
Now I did put diesel in crankcase /and some spillage in the cylinders, my guess it mixed with oil and burned it up ,thankfully I had like half a liter left, poured it in and its fine now.

On second start it didnt smoke as much but I was still paranoid, so i filled up coolant and etc. kept the car running for like 5 mins and oil level was fine . Paranoia is over :P

Overall, this was my 1st motor assembly hopefully it will keep on working for a long long time :D Now onto the original plan .. next year [:D]

Blazius
12-05-2018, 11:03 AM
So, now that we are back to original plan I was thinking about how can I speed up the process.. so since I had to get a new engine to swap the head with the old one, I got some goodies with it , like stock turbo exhaust manifold , oil lines, flywheel.
Then an idea popped up: why spend money ( which I dont really have after what happend ) on an ebay t3 exh. manifold , if I could make a flange for the stock one. Now I know the stock manifold, isnt exactly the best flowing thing in the world but hopefully it will be allright.

Some companies sell these adapters but they are not worth the money so I am gonna be making my own this week hopefully.

https://i.imgur.com/DCKmxMr.jpg

The 2 upper bolts which are gonna be inside next to flow, will be sunken in so its flush , the steel is gonna be 1 cm thick.

I am gonna be using this , hopefully stock oil drain, TurboWorks oil feed, intercooler from a TDCI mondeo 2.0l possibly, deka injectors most likely - Intake manifold from an ATW engine code. Not paying for a manifold is gonna make it way more easier to get the parts.

Thoughts ? [:D]

mobildetroit
12-05-2018, 11:57 AM
I haven't read any of the comments but my first though is....do you have the correct head/compression ratio to do this? I suspect you would change the computer and wiring harness to a turbo car type so you can plug in all the extra control solenoids, and locate the sensors in the right place (MAP, etc...).

Seems like it would be much easier just selling your Audi and by one with a turbo already in it....chances are you would end up spending less money going this route and you wouldn't even get dirty.

Blazius
12-05-2018, 12:10 PM
I haven't read any of the comments but my first though is....do you have the correct head/compression ratio to do this? I suspect you would change the computer and wiring harness to a turbo car type so you can plug in all the extra control solenoids, and locate the sensors in the right place (MAP, etc...).

Seems like it would be much easier just selling your Audi and by one with a turbo already in it....chances are you would end up spending less money going this route and you wouldn't even get dirty.

Nope.

gettin a turbo car is way more expensive and I already got the turbo. Compression ratio is 10.2 right now, but I am running 98 octane. also I will be running 8 psi internal wg 1st. I'll run stock MAF , then later change to 3 inch housing if I wanna up the boost. I will also swap the pistons and get forged rods from the turbo block later on when gettin serious ( 20 PSI + )

Blazius
12-06-2018, 01:32 PM
So any opinion on the custom flange ?

Blazius
12-10-2018, 08:04 AM
I finished the adapter today.

https://i.imgur.com/FqvWfhv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NYxLsZH.jpg

Blazius
12-12-2018, 08:34 AM
so update:

Flange is done, working perfectly...
https://scontent.fotp3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/47688666_1059137144247671_1320273505136148480_n.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fotp3-2.fna&oh=f47d129ad1c64dbe0aae49969e9b67fa&oe=5CB24301

Now the issue, that in this position it will not fit cause of the crash support. I need to clock compressor housing , and relocate wastegate, and maybe with a help of a hammer it will help.. also need to fit a MAF and air filter in that tight space on da turbo.

RENOxDECEPTION
12-13-2018, 09:15 PM
You should remove all moving parts and put that new head in the dishwasher :P

Just don't tell your significant other...they might get mad.

https://i.imgur.com/i3dt7kF.png

Blazius
12-13-2018, 09:22 PM
You should remove all moving parts and put that new head in the dishwasher :P

Just don't tell your significant other...they might get mad.

https://i.imgur.com/i3dt7kF.png

Oh no.. that is my old head that got replaced :D I have a turbo head on my NA block now.

RENOxDECEPTION
12-13-2018, 09:24 PM
What does the new one look like?

DISHWASHERRRRR [>_<]

Blazius
12-13-2018, 09:32 PM
What does the new one look like?

DISHWASHERRRRR [>_<]

Nah it was cleaned in diesel and soapy water thoroughly :D I just used the old head to see how the flange looks.


I am in process of clokcing the turbo now but I need to fit a larger hose as the stock one doesnt permit to relocate the wastegate if its clocked properly. also I am going to make a custom drain adapter for the stock drain. Then I only need to get an oil feed kit to test fit it alteast.