Upgrade from Zimmerman Rotors?

[minman26]

What would be a step up from Zimmerman blanks in terms of performance? I absolutely hate my Zimmerman / Akebono setup and looking for something that holds up to heat much better. Not looking to go crazy with a BBC or 2-piece rotor. Likely will pair with Hawk HPS 5.0.

[hilmar2k]

The only way to deal with heat better is with a heavier rotor, since mass is what dissipates heat. If you don't like your brakes, it's the pads, not the Zimmermans.

[Acejam]

The only way to deal with heat better is with a heavier rotor, since mass is what dissipates heat. If you don't like your brakes, it's the pads, not the Zimmermans.

Or lighter two-piece rotors. [:)]

[hilmar2k]

Or lighter two-piece rotors. [:)]

Nope. Lighter rotors reduce unsprung and rotating mass, but doesn't handle heat as well. Won't improve braking.

[Acejam]

Nope. Lighter rotors reduce unsprung and rotating mass, but doesn't handle heat as well. Won't improve braking.

Actual experience racing cars for over 10 years > random forum post.

[wangshuo1989]

Nope. Lighter rotors reduce unsprung and rotating mass, but doesn't handle heat as well. Won't improve braking.

2 piece design makes the heat transfer more efficient.

[chilort]

My Apikol 2-piece rotors were expensive. But I've been able to put the street miles on them (I've never tracked the car). I had one of them turned because I was getting vibration 20,000 miles or so ago and they've been all good since. I've probably got 60,000 miles on them and last I had them checked they still had plenty of meat left on them. I know re-ringing them won't be cheap but at least I know I'll be able to put them miles on them rather than throwing them in the trash. They have the correct directional vanes for cooling and they're lighter than stock.

[BigKeshy]

The only way to deal with heat better is with a heavier rotor, since mass is what dissipates heat. If you don't like your brakes, it's the pads, not the Zimmermans.


Nope. Lighter rotors reduce unsprung and rotating mass, but doesn't handle heat as well. Won't improve braking.

Rotor construction material, internal vane design, and rotor surface characteristics are the major contributing factors in evaluating rotor braking performance. Simply adding mass while keeping all other variables constant allows for more heat absorption capacity not dissipation performance.

Heat dissipation is primarily dictated by thermal conductivity. 2-piece rotors use an aluminum hat because its thermal conductivity is superior to cast iron. The hat serves as a heat sink helping while also being able to shed the heat it absorbs faster than an equivalently sized cast iron hat.

I agree that OP should play with different pad options before going after improved rotors. Akebonos aren't exactly meant for high heat performance.

OP, what's your driving style like? Are you tracking your car or just lots or spirited street driving? When do you typically notice brake fade?

[minman26]

Rotor construction material, internal vane design, and rotor surface characteristics are the major contributing factors in evaluating rotor braking performance. Simply adding mass while keeping all other variables constant allows for more heat absorption capacity not dissipation performance.

Heat dissipation is primarily dictated by thermal conductivity. 2-piece rotors use an aluminum hat because its thermal conductivity is superior to cast iron. The hat serves as a heat sink helping while also being able to shed the heat it absorbs faster than an equivalently sized cast iron hat.

I agree that OP should play with different pad options before going after improved rotors. Akebonos aren't exactly meant for high heat performance.

OP, what's your driving style like? Are you tracking your car or just lots or spirited street driving? When do you typically notice brake fade?

Just spirited street driving. And nothing even that crazy. But when I get after it on some twisties very quickly they heat up and start to vibrate. I don't get fade, per se, as I don't continue to push them once the vibration starts. Once back to normal temps everything is fine again.

[grovlet]

Try Porterfield R4S (https://www.porterfield-brakes.com/images/portstrt2008_11_06_02_45_30.pdf) Pads

While i don't run Akebonos - I think You'll find them much better..... I have run them on My Subau in direct comparison Hawk HPS / Newer 5.0 and they are better there.....

Also read though the description - they are designed as the balanced pad - spirited driving / light HPDE Events - but the description is accurate - I run them on all my vehicles paired with Stoptech Cryo slotted Rotors - bit they should play nice with almost any rotor.

ONLY Downside is price - they are not cheap

[bhvrdr]

Ive heard the akebono euros arent meant to hold up to high deand braking but im curious about this. They are meant for euro high speed brake applucations and more importantly are GG rated which is higher than hawk 5.0 pads iirc so what issues have people had with them. Id like to know as i thought of using them

Mike

[BDP]

Ive heard the akebono euros arent meant to hold up to high deand braking but im curious about this. They are meant for euro high speed brake applucations and more importantly are GG rated which is higher than hawk 5.0 pads iirc so what issues have people had with them. Id like to know as i thought of using them

Mike

The bite isn't there with Aekbono's. Stock if you think about touching the brake pedal the car will stop on a dime. With Aekbono's the pedal travel is much more substantial before the car starts to bite. It requires more pedal force essentially which can be off putting coming from the stock pads. I haven't had any issues where the car doesn't stop well but it does take a lot of getting used to.

I'm not sure I will purchase them again. While I don't necessarily care for the aggressive stock bite, I'd like something in between. FWIW I'm also running Zimmerman rotors with the Aekbono pads.

[chilort]

Try Porterfield R4S (https://www.porterfield-brakes.com/images/portstrt2008_11_06_02_45_30.pdf) Pads

While i don't run Akebonos - I think You'll find them much better..... I have run them on My Subau in direct comparison Hawk HPS / Newer 5.0 and they are better there.....

Also read though the description - they are designed as the balanced pad - spirited driving / light HPDE Events - but the description is accurate - I run them on all my vehicles paired with Stoptech Cryo slotted Rotors - bit they should play nice with almost any rotor.

ONLY Downside is price - they are not cheap

I've had Porterfields on a different car years ago and I liked them. I'm running the 5.0 pad now and, while low dust, I can't say I'm thrilled. My plan is to order Poterfields when I next need pads.

[bhvrdr]

The bite isn't there with Aekbono's. Stock if you think about touching the brake pedal the car will stop on a dime. With Aekbono's the pedal travel is much more substantial before the car starts to bite. It requires more pedal force essentially which can be off putting coming from the stock pads. I haven't had any issues where the car doesn't stop well but it does take a lot of getting used to.

I'm not sure I will purchase them again. While I don't necessarily care for the aggressive stock bite, I'd like something in between.

Yes sorry I didn't mean to confuse the situation. I know that ceramic pads will have better modulation so you can actually press the brake pedal harder and get more braking where as with the stock brakes when you tap the brakes it'll put your head through the windshield and then when you press the brakes harder nothing else happens haha.

My question though is about people stating that these brakes are not meant to be used in more demanding braking situations like Canyon runs or something like that. they are GG heat rated which is as high as I have ever seen for a street pad and higher than the hawks so I really would like to get feedback as far as if these pads can hold up to some more aggressive driving and why in the world they wouldn't be able to.

[Bartlett]

Yes sorry I didn't mean to confuse the situation. I know that ceramic pads will have better modulation so you can actually press the brake pedal harder and get more braking where as with the stock brakes when you tap the brakes it'll put your head through the windshield and then when you press the brakes harder nothing else happens haha.

My question though is about people stating that these brakes are not meant to be used in more demanding braking situations like Canyon runs or something like that. they are GG heat rated which is as high as I have ever seen for a street pad and higher than the hawks so I really would like to get feedback as far as if these pads can hold up to some more aggressive driving and why in the world they wouldn't be able to.

Where can I find the rating on pads? I have Centric posiquiets and they haven't gotten back to me on the rating.

[BDP]

Yes sorry I didn't mean to confuse the situation. I know that ceramic pads will have better modulation so you can actually press the brake pedal harder and get more braking where as with the stock brakes when you tap the brakes it'll put your head through the windshield and then when you press the brakes harder nothing else happens haha.

My question though is about people stating that these brakes are not meant to be used in more demanding braking situations like Canyon runs or something like that. they are GG heat rated which is as high as I have ever seen for a street pad and higher than the hawks so I really would like to get feedback as far as if these pads can hold up to some more aggressive driving and why in the world they wouldn't be able to.

Ahh gotchya. Sorry can't help you there. I've never tracked mine. They slow me down o.k. from 120mph though when I need it. ;)

[bhvrdr]

Where can I find the rating on pads? I have Centric posiquiets and they haven't gotten back to me on the rating.Usually on the back but not all manufacturers include them. These pagids for my q5/macan brembos on my a4 are FE and sucked. I got rid of them after a month. Pagid is on the left and oem brembo on the right

The same pagid hellas for my 911 were gg and worked well. Go figure. Same brand and product range pad but very different performance based on application


Mikehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181019/84a2783420427481ed326e725df3bdea.jpg

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[Midnight_Rider]

I have some cheap ass ceramic brake pads with cheap ass rotors. TRW - ceramic pads that's made by the same manufacturer that makes OEM brake pads (for Merc, Audi, BMW, etc.). $120 all around. They work fine. Got some cheap ass PowerStop rotors, which I think is made by the same company in Taiwan or something. They worked awesome for Auto-X before. Never cracked.

I've ran basically all of the racing, semi-racing, ceramic, and expensive shit before. Sure, they work great, but who here actually need those? Unless you're trying to brake from 130 mph to 10 mph to do a hairpin turn, you won't benefit from any of these pads.

Ceramic pads will be harsher on rotors, but it's good for daily driving. Semi-metallic pads will get loud. Full metal pads will squeal like someone nailing a chalk board all the time.

If anything, invest in stainless steel lines, change your brake fluids (Motul or Red Line), and make sure there are no bubbles in the system. I think Audi stock tested at 107 feet or something on semi-metallic pads? Only way to improve that is to get some larger rotors and metallic pads with 6 piston and up setup.

But once you want to go heavy, go full metallic. There is no substitution. Porterfield is great. Hawk and Ferrodo are awesome. I don't know if they make Audi pads or not though.

[minman26]

Ive heard the akebono euros arent meant to hold up to high deand braking but im curious about this. They are meant for euro high speed brake applucations and more importantly are GG rated which is higher than hawk 5.0 pads iirc so what issues have people had with them. Id like to know as i thought of using them

Mike

I used to love them. The lack of initial bite takes about 5 minutes to get used to and then they modulate very well. much better than stock. Brake fine 99% of the time. 100 to 0, no problem. It's just when I make a few hard brakes in quick succession. For me, I start to get pretty bad vibration. No real fade. Pedal is fine. My fluid is fresh. Don't have stainless lines admittedly. Once they cool down, back to great brakes.

So I no longer recommend them and will not buy again. But they're a fan favorite on this forum.

[vtraudt]

Noisy (when transfer layer worn down they screetch, and need to be bedded in again) but great performance even when cold: carbotech xp10. Raceoafs that can be driven daily.

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