PDA

View Full Version : RS5 header installation



Ape Factory
10-05-2018, 05:28 AM
Not sure how many have seen these images but they're worth taking a look at if you haven't. This is a B8 RS5 from Europe having it's engine dropped and Klein headers installed. It'll either leave you clapping your hands in excitement or scare you enough to run the other way.

Given that FabSpeed and JHM are both looking at creating headers for the RS5, I thought it'd be good to post this.

It'd also be a good idea to come up with a list of things that should be looked at or replaced while the engine is out from both a performance and maintenance standpoint. If you think of anything necessary, post it and I'll add it to the list. Some of the maintenance stuff will be necessary while dropping the engine, coolant flush for instance.

Maintenance
-Possibly the a/c gear that can go bad if the new piece is actually an updated part.
-Accessory drive belt
-motor mounts
-engine and transmission seals (like the rear main seal)
-vaccuum lines
-Not 100% necessary but front suspension bushings
-clean the damn engine bay [facepalm]


Performance
-034 Motorsports motor mounts
-Lightweight flywheel? (JHM working on adapting one to the RS5?)


Photos, in a somewhat orderly arrangement. Really surprised we have round exhaust ports. That was a bit of a "huh" moment.
https://i.postimg.cc/HL5SD2wy/9305134820_2597642c36_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gJWgYZsB/9302354465_1dd3c0094f_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/1thjfTmB/9302354845_86a74b745a_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/pTJqyL1V/9305134740_dcf4d76db3_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/qM5QNYQK/9305134570_e76f26b3f4_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/T12QbvZV/9302354329_07475256a4_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/wTv0TH5H/9302354091_57d8bd0ba3_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/NffP9Rc3/9302354677_b87a225ac6_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/bwSgkTFB/9305134438_1ace3cce79_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/VkJG4154/8812315008_8726bc6c0b_o.jpg (https://postimg.cc/pmtJXwfn)

https://i.postimg.cc/7hLM6M2X/9302353489_61e507b0cb_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/cC578g7W/9302353579_34473828ed_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/B6pB4wXX/9302353687_b66829636c_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/Kzx5Xyc6/9302353765_ba4cfee4c0_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/rp6JJrBF/9302353877_3459114fd8_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gc4gWrZN/9302353887_7c761de8a5_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/Kj9frs2d/9302354097_e6f4f5ed29_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/5twmktJ5/9305134086_fb38eded45_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/8cwKXzhX/8638207223_8418116a3b_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/Gtbgjyss/8638207157_7af2e254e5_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/441SxBrv/8638207067_51796a2d00_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gJVBRDrW/8573830152_aaa7d26b50_o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/66HfPSkP/8475011992_1b93cd4199_o.jpg (https://postimg.cc/c6n3gD47)

altobeast
10-05-2018, 07:18 AM
Boy this just reminds you how compact this engine is and how much a monstrosity (size wise) the DCT is. Wow

RS5ish
10-05-2018, 08:58 AM
While I am sure they perform great and sound wonderful, I would image that with the small fortune that will cost and the install labor that the exhaust pipe flanges would be something a big more leak resistant than a standard 3 bolt flange. Maybe a v band or something like that. Aside from that they look fantastic.

Jake@JHM
10-05-2018, 09:34 AM
The issue we are finding so far with headers is that you are going to be paying a LOT of money for just a cat delete. The headers on the market already are copying the OEM Header design and just removing the catalyst, so you won't be getting the huge bump like a regular NA car going to headers for log manifolds would since the RS5 already has headers.

On top of that, most people are already complaining about exhaust being too loud. Removing those cats are going to make the exhaust MUCH louder.

AsherAudi
10-05-2018, 10:09 AM
I don't want the cats removed, just MOVED further down and replaced with higher flow ones - the factory cats are 400cpsi which is quite restrictive and from what I understand, solid gains will be made via even 200cpsi.

Going cat-less would likely mean both failing emissions tests and obscene amount of noise so that doesn't interest me. I know the headers will increase sound regardless but am currently using OEM downpipes but have a spare set of AWE Resonated ones that could be used to tone things down if they are too loud.

I believe the dyno results I saw included higher-flow cats rather than NO cats at all - they showed headers + high-flow cats + ecu tune at a 50whp gain combined.

Ape Factory
10-05-2018, 07:54 PM
The issue we are finding so far with headers is that you are going to be paying a LOT of money for just a cat delete. The headers on the market already are copying the OEM Header design and just removing the catalyst, so you won't be getting the huge bump like a regular NA car going to headers for log manifolds would since the RS5 already has headers.

On top of that, most people are already complaining about exhaust being too loud. Removing those cats are going to make the exhaust MUCH louder.

This is why I've flirted with the idea of purchasing a used set of RS5 headers, cutting off the cat and welding on a proper collector and connecting pipe. That'll save me a few grand right there. Add some Vibrant metal catalysts further down and you're good to go (not really that easy but you get the idea).

I will say this...even adding high flow cats will increase the sound rather dramatically. Test pipes would probably make the AWE touring system louder than the track extreme setup.

JamesRS5
10-05-2018, 09:07 PM
https://youtu.be/oiqacsNSQWg

Hereís Marz car having the engine dropped, or rather car lifted off the engine to install the Kline headers. If I remember correctly, Marz had a hotch potch of an exhaust with different parts welded in here and there so sound wonít be comparable to any known system


https://youtu.be/mJ-VrK0GPhg

Engine sound after headers install


As I said in the other thread, the work involved in removing these headers will put the 10HP gain into massive negative equity and increases the potential for things to go wrong post surgery. There arenít many shops I would trust to do this work.

I contacted Kline 2 years ago and asked the question on sound levels, hereís the response:

Hi James,

Thank you for your inquiry!

The headers will improve the mid torque and throttle response. It will fit with capristo and stock exhaust. The volume will get bigger though, you can expect 25-30% more sound with headers installed.

We can fit 100cell cats to the manifolds, that will keep it slightly quieter. Resonated downpipes will also help a bit, but the total volume will be louder compared to stock manifolds. The oem cats are 400cpi, going to decat or 100cell opens up volume quite a lot.

I couldnít live with that for the relatively small gain.

AsherAudi
10-06-2018, 08:45 AM
https://youtu.be/oiqacsNSQWg

As I said in the other thread, the work involved in removing these headers will put the 10HP gain into massive negative equity and increases the potential for things to go wrong post surgery. There arenít many shops I would trust to do this work.

I contacted Kline 2 years ago and asked the question on sound levels, hereís the response:

Hi James,

Thank you for your inquiry!

The headers will improve the mid torque and throttle response. It will fit with capristo and stock exhaust. The volume will get bigger though, you can expect 25-30% more sound with headers installed.

We can fit 100cell cats to the manifolds, that will keep it slightly quieter. Resonated downpipes will also help a bit, but the total volume will be louder compared to stock manifolds. The oem cats are 400cpi, going to decat or 100cell opens up volume quite a lot.

I couldnít live with that for the relatively small gain.

--well after reading all that now I'm depressed [headbang] lol I just remember 2 threads with dyno results showing the headers/high-flow cats at a 25-35 tq gain alone and a 50+hp gain combined with either intake/exhaust or intake/ecu - it was a really old archived thread I can't find at the moment. Definitely will need resonated DPs but AWE's are super quiet so that may turn out ok.

From what I know of Fabspeed, they're very into Dyno testing and verifying their claims so perhaps they can develop these headers to where we know exact gains prior to purchase to help with the decision. I remember a couple years ago they made an intake manifold for Porsche 911 S that they sold as producing a 30hp gain and offered it for GTS models too - a GTS owner bought it and found NO gains so Fabspeed looked into it seriously and found they actually needed to slightly modify their design for the GTS model and re-developed one for the GTS that DID ultimately produce the 30hp gains (and replaced all the ones they'd sold for GTS models for free). Basically, they not only backed up their product and claims but re-engineered a solution to guarantee it.

JamesRS5
10-06-2018, 10:52 AM
10hp was a guesstimate so put down the gasoline and matches. That said, the design of the headers is very limited due to space, thatís probably why Kline mirrored the OE design but removed the squashed areas and obviously the cats. I recall Marz dyno plots but he never gave a straight answer on the performance gain, they were mixed in with the intake and ECU modifications. Looking at the dyno plot on that old thread, it looks to be around 10-15hp

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/14060699191_52266991ea_o.jpg

The final number was 256Kw (343hp) at the tires.

AsherAudi
10-06-2018, 11:57 AM
10hp was a guesstimate so put down the gasoline and matches. That said, the design of the headers is very limited due to space, thatís probably why Kline mirrored the OE design but removed the squashed areas and obviously the cats. I recall Marz dyno plots but he never gave a straight answer on the performance gain, they were mixed in with the intake and ECU modifications. Looking at the dyno plot on that old thread, it looks to be around 10-15hp

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/14060699191_52266991ea_o.jpg

The final number was 256Kw (343hp) at the tires.

Thanks for digging that up - there's another one out there too but look at the HP gain at 6100 rpm and the TQ gain at 5700 rpm on that chart! The TQ is more impressive as it goes throughout the rev band but not sure if that is from going catless or using 100 or 200cfsi higher-flow cats. If it requires going catless to achieve a 10-15% torque gain, then it won't be worth it for me as I have fairly strict emissions requirements in TX...