6MT Question

[denako]

Hi everyone. Had a question about 6MT cars as I'm not sure if I'm the only one having this issue. I've been just dealing with it for now because I'm not in the position to dump 3k on a clutch setup just yet. In heavy rush hour traffic, I notice that at low speeds in 1st and 2nd gear, the car likes to jerk back and forth with light throttle. Kind of like the "quattro crawl" which I've heard mentioned on here before but literally every time I'm in bumper to bumper. Seems to get worse the longer I'm in traffic (assuming due to heat). 3rd gear and onward it is non-existent.

I do have the drivetrain inserts and transmission mount from 034. I've come to the conclusion that is has to be one of two things.. either the clutch needs to be replaced (currently 114k on original) or the engine mounts are shot. I am not getting any sort of codes for the valves on the mount solenoids. Although my clutch has 114k.. it still holds pretty well even when slamming through gears.. Any ideas? I'm also Stage 1+.

Any questions, please let me know. It's kind of tough to explain the jerking it makes but it's really extreme sometimes.

[seandon_792]

I very familiar with what you’re describing. I would only experience it in situations that require me to feather the clutch. Overtime I taught myself to give it gas a tad more gently as I clutch out and haven’t had problems since.
When I first got the car it would happen all the time and I would clutch in and feather it back out which would immediately stop the bucking


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[Audibot]

I very familiar with what you’re describing. I would only experience it in situations that require me to feather the clutch. Overtime I taught myself to give it gas a tad more gently as I clutch out and haven’t had problems since.
When I first got the car it would happen all the time and I would clutch in and feather it back out which would immediately stop the bucking

Ditto to what he said.

[denako]

I very familiar with what you’re describing. I would only experience it in situations that require me to feather the clutch. Overtime I taught myself to give it gas a tad more gently as I clutch out and haven’t had problems since.
When I first got the car it would happen all the time and I would clutch in and feather it back out which would immediately stop the bucking


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I wish that was the case. I feather the clutch off of engagement in traffic the whole time to avoid that. The bucking occurs even when rolling at low speeds and off the clutch completely. Anything more than a subtle movement in throttle causes it to jerk violently. Even on deceleration. If I could explain it any better, it reminds me of the feeling that my buddy's 1000hp fully built Evo did off the line.

EDIT: Note that this occurs in 2nd gear at low speeds as well, not just 1st.

[Dannydyn]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, and really the question I'm about to ask is out of pure curiosity: How long have you been driving manuals? I've never experienced anything like what you describe (from a mechanical standpoint), and would attribute such jerkiness to simply not being careful enough when letting off the clutch (i.e. semi-dumping it). It may have happened to me when I drove a couple of time with snow boots, and accidentally (due to the stiffness and rigidness of the boots), ended up letting off the clutch a bit to quickly and abruptly, which resulted in this jerkiness, where the car lurched forward.

[denako]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, and really the question I'm about to ask is out of pure curiosity: How long have you been driving manuals? I've never experienced anything like what you describe (from a mechanical standpoint), and would attribute such jerkiness to simply not being careful enough when letting off the clutch (i.e. semi-dumping it). It may have happened to me when I drove a couple of time with snow boots, and accidentally (due to the stiffness and rigidness of the boots), ended up letting off the clutch a bit to quickly and abruptly, which resulted in this jerkiness, where the car lurched forward.

No offense taken, it's plausible to ask haha. I'm 23 and have daily driven manual cars since I was 16. Have done roughly about 250,000 miles of stick shift driving since then, I would say I'm well inclined at driving manual cars.

[ellwood]

prior to replacing my clutch, i would occasionally get a bad bucking loop going on initial start up where i had to depress the clutch pedal to get it to stop. after replacing my clutch (OEM flywheel, sachs Xtend pressure plate), this has not happened

[-unSound]

Does it buck only when getting on and off or changing the throttle when crawling along at low speeds? Bounces a few times then steadies if you keep the throttle steady? I think that is normal and I've always assumed its mostly just due to driveline lash.

[mdelmonico]

I used to experience this too. I haven't driven in heavy traffic since I don't drive it to and from work. Once I went duel pulley it went away. I think the lower end torque is what is missing so you have to up the RPMs to keep it smooth.

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[amusante]

I get this too, was really hoping getting the drivetrain inserts would solve it, but doesn't sound like it. I have a 2010, so I'm assuming it may have something to do with engine/tranny mounts.

[denako]

Does it buck only when getting on and off or changing the throttle when crawling along at low speeds? Bounces a few times then steadies if you keep the throttle steady? I think that is normal and I've always assumed its mostly just due to driveline lash.

This is EXACTLY what it does. It happens when changing the throttle crawling along at low speeds. Unfortunately, i can’t remember if this was something it always did.. like when i first bought it in 2015.


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[Audibot]

Ah, my allroad does that too, only in 1st at low speed (<20 mph) and has the whole time I've had it. If I leave it alone after it gets to whatever speed it wants it's fine, but if I'm not super gentle with applying throttle, it'll buck a couple times before going steady. 2nd gear onwards doesn't do this for me, only 1st. I've upgraded just about every mount in the car and it still does it. Like -unSound, I think it's normal behavior in these cars.

[denako]

Ah, my allroad does that too, only in 1st at low speed (<20 mph) and has the whole time I've had it. If I leave it alone after it gets to whatever speed it wants it's fine, but if I'm not super gentle with applying throttle, it'll buck a couple times before going steady. 2nd gear onwards doesn't do this for me, only 1st. I've upgraded just about every mount in the car and it still does it. Like -unSound, I think it's normal behavior in these cars.

If that's the case, then this sucks. Other AWD cars can crawl in rush hour without bucking and it get's really annoying when you have to deal with it 2 hours a day M-F.

[Audibot]

If you can crawl that much, then you have much better traffic situation than I have the deal with. I want to say that half the time I'm about to let off the clutch, it's time to get back on it.

[SteveYem]

Mine does the same thing. 2015 S4 6MT. This kicker is, a few years ago I installed the 034 solid transmission insert as well as the Apikol rear differential mount bushing thing, and the driveline lash from lightly applying throttle at a crawl all but went away. For the past year or so, it's gotten back to the original levels and is driving me nuts. I have not been back under the car to make sure everything is still tight so I guess that's a variable....but it feels pretty bad.

[denako]

Just to eliminate the variable.. have any of you put in a brand new clutch, flywheel, + accessories in and still noticed the issue? I'm reading some of the signatures on here and I'm not seeing any clutches done.

[Audibot]

Mine does the same thing. 2015 S4 6MT. This kicker is, a few years ago I installed the 034 solid transmission insert as well as the Apikol rear differential mount bushing thing, and the driveline lash from lightly applying throttle at a crawl all but went away. For the past year or so, it's gotten back to the original levels and is driving me nuts. I have not been back under the car to make sure everything is still tight so I guess that's a variable....but it feels pretty bad.

Do a double-check on the Apikol rear diff bushings. There are some folks on the C5 side that have done that (like I have) and said theirs deteriorated within a couple years. May explain why it has returned...



Just to eliminate the variable.. have any of you put in a brand new clutch, flywheel, + accessories in and still noticed the issue? I'm reading some of the signatures on here and I'm not seeing any clutches done.

I'm still on my original clutch. Upgraded clutch will probably come later if/when I decide to pull the engine to install bigger turbos, etc.

[SteveYem]

Do a double-check on the Apikol rear diff bushings. There are some folks on the C5 side that have done that (like I have) and said theirs deteriorated within a couple years. May explain why it has returned...




Interesting! I will take a look hopefully this weekend. Refresh my memory - if it has deteriorated, I can just remove it altogether, correct? i.e., in stock form there is nothing where the Apikol bushing goes?

[Audibot]

Interesting! I will take a look hopefully this weekend. Refresh my memory - if it has deteriorated, I can just remove it altogether, correct? i.e., in stock form there is nothing where the Apikol bushing goes?

Sorry, I can't confirm that since I don't have a B8. Just a PSA that Apikol bushings have had early failures for some. Here are a couple pics from them. Note that I haven't this issue, but some members have. Pics are from 4 years of use.

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XJh6dE_U0gblVe8SKtLBEHVg9wPirqeVcIEp-fAhPV0x5bnfFGruxbK6SLR6p7K1LjG25zr1afVlRDAFMaY6R8w cf_otIP3cN_QCMt-CUnnOqBP5jxbb_PkT5eNNtsG8nySF48z8sKkxACPQ_pNWdRGNH 6w6rQIImZWGmlI0dNuWopzRKdRLli3ym4A3hmvZ_MPK4Y4IaGP bBpdi4DLETkVO4xtpiDVpFOeCAqnaanC5Iej4qr2XGok3fXRuy 28AbZFJNi0CCWA1_BRlmAy-_H4YduUgfwUSUTjYso1wpJgzwtnY4zjrrArbDvxxDa_PkbZP0X SDeni8kRFX9kYFNS2crfKIiIvH_2ZzDhz2p5KDLIXgVZevasZb TmHLb4-8X5AFYa3kecqxj8aOTy7o9VuEGuB0xlJTLyLI6-p6edzwMvJiKtJBpkQiI3viJzV9lLV5NjpE8uNR3dtjzwmcEnxt 5g6FOoaNgTrE1Kwx6hCNc2Zn9aPP9AcDE9L6NnXUkzFezFykki y4sC20VqpXnJWPbg1aPNqBDdgTZCrPWgGVpaNS9CqQi3pE420Z fcrCAMmfvQ7DPoJORjRL_GhDx4eneNqyvGXeNSM7vPN1FDrhN0 Vv_CFg2gABlBfHRol-zJptbjQ3FqI0vdnoQv2BsdVafzNJd7LaKg=w718-h404-no

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nP3524HGWJ36ktpKNZe0GjBlg7-SkF9bnOZFMggMPHtmpKVo1we8Wb9LZ72SsMhJGd8c522T8RLIt qhx9ENBUwyZ-2v6aH2AzsYrLiDGFSm_Y2PVfiW_Z2xhvCZFFJhiosjX4HMNs1Y 84NH0-eFXlTFaDcSR8LpV3pkd_RykDySylJBoHUjPjYRUTzB7QXTlhhh ynP61W69nuP4OLdUWdaeEQ2W0KdUyjL0yw3ufgbTtPsdandVKI J9gdK4s-AsuTHw57-1JP8s3Gg--SiO-rd-LBImlWkeOdipaNFkwEt5Nb6u6TxCkumaX-EY9pcXVQbXpZtec9JByfVd4cvb2vAw2JJGxWepNyELCImdo_jZ UAy_s2oKGDgv37OoD5Fn-B5o_GTR5u8_CNHjG2c5DwzgT4GxUgXiuA6xTs1ngtdpUmmKweK aZky_1MztrAFz-dEz0p9lfPgTTnPgpCMqOFmtHvPEj8tGjOsQuwIJFzPAI5W5qgO OV0H2khG08wcolLviG5GSdt1ZfwSf5y8dvKJDEs_kuvUvy1UHB ugu_iao5wdUBUOAFzglXdycrgrStIsdFm8PJ_EkkWqKTxt1Uvs uebFqL2v600LbPiGnz7NDTeQctUgJ9RgI5j26O8BcncbnBU2Uf 16tECdzzHxfPHgTZbo04P3Jy9w=w589-h1046-no

[SteveYem]

^ Damn, shredded! In the case of the rear diff mount, it's just sandwiched between the differential and the subframe so if it disintegrates like that then the tension on the bolt is lost and that connection would be loose. That would certainly explain the sloppy feeling...

[-unSound]

Just to eliminate the variable.. have any of you put in a brand new clutch, flywheel, + accessories in and still noticed the issue? I'm reading some of the signatures on here and I'm not seeing any clutches done.

Mine car still has the stock clutch. It has done it since I got the car with 6K miles though. Its really not enough to bug me at all, yours might be worse by the sounds of it. I have noticed the same thing with different manuals I have had too so I never thought much of it.

[FromRagsToS4]

I've experienced the same thing but only if I do partial throttle. Definitely feels like drivetrain slop that just seemed to amplify on part throttle. I feel like it has to do with the partial throttle causing it to "bounce" back and forth from one bushing limit, or whatever, to another. One thing that helps support this conclusion is that it wouldn't happen if I gave it a lot more throttle such that it was a continuous line of acceleration that didn't allow those sloppy parts to jump back and forth. I could get it to buck but as soon as I smashed that gas I would be pressed into my seat and it wouldn't buck anymore.

Seems to not happen anymore for me but I have all the drivetrain inserts you can plus the 034 street density engine mounts, x-brace and cr15. Everything is pretty tight.

Another thing could be that your foot is letting off the throttle, exaggerating the bucking motion since you're probably trying to hold the gas steady, so it creates this sort of on/off throttle effect from the car itself causing your foot to press and release the throttle slightly.

[Oboy]

Hi everyone. Had a question about 6MT cars as I'm not sure if I'm the only one having this issue. I've been just dealing with it for now because I'm not in the position to dump 3k on a clutch setup just yet. In heavy rush hour traffic, I notice that at low speeds in 1st and 2nd gear, the car likes to jerk back and forth with light throttle. Kind of like the "quattro crawl" which I've heard mentioned on here before but literally every time I'm in bumper to bumper. Seems to get worse the longer I'm in traffic (assuming due to heat). 3rd gear and onward it is non-existent.

I do have the drivetrain inserts and transmission mount from 034. I've come to the conclusion that is has to be one of two things.. either the clutch needs to be replaced (currently 114k on original) or the engine mounts are shot. I am not getting any sort of codes for the valves on the mount solenoids. Although my clutch has 114k.. it still holds pretty well even when slamming through gears.. Any ideas? I'm also Stage 1+.

Any questions, please let me know. It's kind of tough to explain the jerking it makes but it's really extreme sometimes.

Hi...
You mention your at Stage 1+..
Is It possible that the problem is caused by the stage 1 tune...?
My guess is that some tunes open the throttle valve a little more aggressively for the given amount of throttle input, in order to get a faster rush of air in through the intake in order to develop engine power sooner.
This would make it difficult to feather the throttle....

Just a thought...


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[clAudi]

I have this issue as well with my car around the same mileage as yours. I'm pretty sure it's either of the mounts have checked/changed any of them ?


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[BucDan]

Stock here as well, 35.5K miles. Traffic in San Diego. It happens when I put in too much gas and don't bother to shift, then the car jerks a bit. Gotta just be nice and careful with releasing the clutch and putting in gas.

[FromRagsToS4]

Another thing to try is driving it in Dynamic mode versus Comfort mode. I found that it was easier to Buck when driving and comfort mode for me.

[bakedziti]

How are your engine mounts?

[SteveYem]

Sorry, I can't confirm that since I don't have a B8. Just a PSA that Apikol bushings have had early failures for some. Here are a couple pics from them. Note that I haven't this issue, but some members have. Pics are from 4 years of use.



I had the chance to get under the car yesterday and check the condition of my Apikol rear differential mount. I did not see any degradation or deformation of the material, just that its color (originally red) had turned to a dark brown. I did notice that the bolt did not require much torque to break loose, so possibly the connection was not as tight as it should have been, but I reinstalled it and went for a drive and did not really feel any difference. I guess I'll check the engine mounts next.

[KRp220]

Just to eliminate the variable.. have any of you put in a brand new clutch, flywheel, + accessories in and still noticed the issue? I'm reading some of the signatures on here and I'm not seeing any clutches done.

i have a south bend stage 3E clutch and i've noticed the jerking both before and after. you just need to being really deliberate with the gas and clutch to avoid it. its annoying AF but thats the only solution i've found so far

[TEB]

If that's the case, then this sucks. Other AWD cars can crawl in rush hour without bucking and it get's really annoying when you have to deal with it 2 hours a day M-F.

When I'm in bumper to bumper traffic, I'm mostly rolling in neutral more than any gear. I release the clutch in gear to get me moving, then flip it into neutral and coast until it's time to stop or put it back in gear for another "push". After 30 years of driving stick shifts, I've learned to minimize the amount of time I'm using the clutch.

[denako]

How are your engine mounts?

I have a feeling they need replacing. Wonder if it will die down my extreme case of the bucking. I noticed if revving at neutral from idle to 4k limiter, the entire car jolts. Probably leaking.

I’m actually planning to go with 034 mounts for that in the next few weeks so I will report back if this improves things. I already have the other drivetrain mounts.


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[denako]

When I'm in bumper to bumper traffic, I'm mostly rolling in neutral more than any gear. I release the clutch in gear to get me moving, then flip it into neutral and coast until it's time to stop or put it back in gear for another "push". After 30 years of driving stick shifts, I've learned to minimize the amount of time I'm using the clutch.

I do this too and it does help reduce the bucking and save life on clutch, i just hate it more than love it because i still have the delay valve. Can’t wait to get that thing replaced as well with a SS line..


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[Ford Prefect]

I have not experienced this myself, at least in this car. I've crept along fairly slowly in Boston and Norther NJ traffic and this didn't happen. stock clutch with about 115k miles. I'll try again though, I'm curious.

[Ford Prefect]

I just purposely tried to get this choppiness and I couldn’t do it. Although I’m due for a clutch but that’s only evident at high rpm shifts.


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[denako]

I have not experienced this myself, at least in this car. I've crept along fairly slowly in Boston and Norther NJ traffic and this didn't happen. stock clutch with about 115k miles. I'll try again though, I'm curious.

I am at literally the same. 113k with the stock clutch. Really leaning towards the engine mounts now. Let's see if it does anything when I upgrade them.

[MME1122]

My car has done the same since new, these cars have a disappointing amount of slop in the drivetrain. I had the 034 inserts (all of them) and it helped but didn't eliminate it. It happens coming on and off throttle in 1st and 2nd the worst, also in 3 but to a much lesser degree. Might not be the answer you want, but I think that's just how these cars are. Definitely inspect the motor mounts and such just to be sure, but I doubt there's anything wrong with the car. My solution is to just feather the clutch more, and to give a little gas going in to first if I know I'm going to be crawling a bit. It's annoying but you can adjust your driving style to compensate.

If anyone has upgraded motor mounts, or a single mass flywheel, maybe they can weigh in. I have a feeling those along with drivetrain inserts will eliminate most if not all the sloppiness. But by going that route you'll introduce more NVH for sure. I pulled most of my inserts out because of it and I had stock flywheel and motor mounts.

[Ford Prefect]

JFC, I’d rather have the “pops out of reverse issue” (which I do) rather than this. Sounds irritating. I also replaced the clutch line to remove the valve.


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[clAudi]

JFC, I’d rather have the “pops out of reverse issue” (which I do) rather than this. Sounds irritating. I also replaced the clutch line to remove the valve.


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How has remplacing the clutch line and removing the delay valve affected your everyday driving ?


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[Ford Prefect]

How has remplacing the clutch line and removing the delay valve affected your everyday driving ?


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I think I saw someone say, and agree with them, that if you can drive a manual it doesn’t really change it. To me it’s more apparent in gear changes as opposed to starting from first. It was hard to get a bad shift with the valve in place, much easier now lol.

It definitely feels better overall and like the cars I used to drive. I can see why Audi did it, but they should’ve been an A4 thing, not an S4 thing.


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[EstorilS4]

Instant throttle response resulting from lack of a torque converter. Enjoy!

[clAudi]

OP, any update ?


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