DL501 Torque limits.

[BSIX-SFOUR]

Okay okay okay, I know what you’re thinking... “we’ve had this discussion numerous times” well, entertain my thoughts. I understand that USP Motorsports has a “600hp” clutch disc kit for the DL501 that they claim can handle 700hp+... my question is... can the trans itself? Also, there is no information on the torque limitations of the clutch discs... I’m just trying to understand what the point is of spending $1600 in clutch discs if the trans can’t handle it, and doesn’t increase torque limitations?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[hilmar2k]

600 Nm

[Dippy]

And that spec is at 9000rpm, so should be higher at 7000rpm?

[whiped]

http://jonchin.smugmug.com/Audi-Club-Singapore-Official/LUK-CVT-Technolo/DL501-Picture-1/737608566_CfsgX-L.jpg

After throwing on the ported blower I hit an ECU torque limit of 750nm that was throwing me into a soft limp mode. We had to raise the limit in the tune itself to fix the issue.

[BSIX-SFOUR]

http://jonchin.smugmug.com/Audi-Club-Singapore-Official/LUK-CVT-Technolo/DL501-Picture-1/737608566_CfsgX-L.jpg

After throwing on the ported blower I hit an ECU torque limit of 750nm that was throwing me into a soft limp mode. We had to raise the limit in the tune itself to fix the issue.

Ohhhhhh so the trans itself can handle more, but the electronics are what hold you back?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[whiped]

The clutches slip on hard launches and shifts. This is observable at Stage II levels as well.

I'm not sure the stronger clutches will help it grab harder. There is some tuning you can do to correct it but ultimately I'm not sure exactly where the limits are and if the upgraded clutch packs will help.

Oleg would know better than I do. He and Jfonz have spent considerable time trying to get the TCU on his S5 running correctly.

[Loe]

the torque rating is "Audi's" own rating, not what the tranny is actually capable of handling, that's from what I understand.

[theweebabyseamus]

Ohhhhhh so the trans itself can handle more, but the electronics are what hold you back?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

Seems to be ok on the tuned S6’s and it’s the same transmission behind a TT V8 that weighs 400 lbs more than our cars.

[BSIX-SFOUR]

The clutches slip on hard launches and shifts. This is observable at Stage II levels as well.

I'm not sure the stronger clutches will help it grab harder. There is some tuning you can do to correct it but ultimately I'm not sure exactly where the limits are and if the upgraded clutch packs will help.

Oleg would know better than I do. He and Jfonz have spent considerable time trying to get the TCU on his S5 running correctly.

I have noticed that the clutches do slip considerably on launches. Which is why I’m wondering about the clutch discs. Does anyone know of anybody who has bought upgraded clutch discs with success or failures?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[UkuRiSh]

My car should be near 700Nm+ DL501 is software limited not a hardware!

[vpls4]

Anyone know what GIAC DP sets for Torque Limit & Clamping Force ?

I heard APR was willing to revise a tcu tune to raise those for Pete. Kinda shocked by that. APR? Impressive.

[Morritse]

I've never experienced clutch slip on EPL TCU tune

[bhvrdr]

My car should be near 700Nm+ DL501 is software limited not a hardware!

Never had clutch slip here fwiw. 44k miles in this one. Think i had around 40k on the other s5 and maybe 30k on the s4

[vpls4]

I've never experienced clutch slip on EPL TCU tune

Interesting, do you know what Torque limit or Clamp Force on EPL tune. And I see you're running a high oct tune with the iABED & Ported blower, I also plan on moving to the 187 pulley. IIRC EPL has already revised their tune to overcome the codes people were seeing.

I think I'll start reading through the EPL Owners Thread.

We only have E54 here in AZ, so I run E30 on pump file and with GIAC I can switch to race file/race gas for drag nights or fun.

[BryanB8.5]

I DEFINITELY experience clutch slip on EPL Stage 2 single pulley between shifts. I also feel like most people have this issue as well even on different tunes.

[UkuRiSh]

I DEFINITELY experience clutch slip on EPL Stage 2 single pulley between shifts. I also feel like most people have this issue as well even on different tunes.


There is no way stage 2+ DP / UC can kill stock clutches ! 99% is TCU/ECU calibration related !!!!!

[Bryan@EP]

There is no way stage 2+ DP / UC can kill stock clutches ! 99% is TCU/ECU calibration related !!!!!

Yea I don’t think it’s going to kill the clutches. I was just saying that it happens lol.

[Loe]

For those with clutch slippage, how are you all determining this? Are you logging the input vs output rpm/speed in VCDS? I agree with Ukurish, if you are experiencing clutch slippage, it's likely tune related or the previous owner did some wacked up stuff. I'm over 1000 on my LC counter, zero slippage and I've put the gear box to good use on a few runs last year that had gear dropping (thankfully has not returned since? Curiously as well...).

[Bryan@EP]

For those with clutch slippage, how are you all determining this? Are you logging the input vs output rpm/speed in VCDS? I agree with Ukurish, if you are experiencing clutch slippage, it's likely tune related or the previous owner did some wacked up stuff. I'm over 1000 on my LC counter, zero slippage and I've put the gear box to good use on a few runs last year that had gear dropping (thankfully has not returned since? Curiously as well...).

I haven’t personally logged it. It’s not major. But at higher rpm’s and under load there is definitely slippage between gears. It shifts and you can feel it slipping and see the tach bouncing a little as well as feel the brief loss of momentum until the clutch finally grabs again. You can see this happening in various YouTube videos as well.

[PeteRock]

I agree with Ukurish as well....

Most issues are related to either the TCU Tune or excess heat

My friend at Audi listed off a number of odd DSG behaviors that are heat related.....apparently the DL501 and other DSGs do some crazy things in the presence of excess heat that we immediately think and feel are clutch related but they are not....this is why they happen on occasion when we push the car but usually can’t be recreated under normal driving conditions

Get a good TCU Tune and add upgraded cooling and the overflow catch can and you should be set unless you plan to start pushing crazy HP/Torque figures like Ukurish


Pete

[bhvrdr]

I haven’t personally logged it. It’s not major. But at higher rpm’s and under load there is definitely slippage between gears. It shifts and you can feel it slipping and see the tach bouncing a little as well as feel the brief loss of momentum until the clutch finally grabs again. You can see this happening in various YouTube videos as well.

Thats probably tune related not necessarily clutch slip.

[PeteRock]

Here are some of the precautionary measures that the DL501 DSG takes when it reaches certain operating temperatures

I’d be curious to see what the VCDS logs of some of the people reporting clutch slippage tell us about the operating temps at the time of the slippages and other abnormalities


9908699087


Pete

[PeteRock]

Here are some of the precautionary measures that the DL501 DSG takes when it reaches certain operating temperatures

I’d be curious to see what the VCDS logs of some of the people reporting clutch slippage tell us about the operating temps at the time of the slippages and other abnormalities


9908699087


Pete

So basically at 135 degrees the DSG starts to initiate limitations to reduce temperatures and you wouldn’t see a fault code or error message until you reach or exceed 145 degrees


Pete

[PeteRock]

And the reason we say it’s TCU Tune related is that depending on your TCU Tune there could be different adjustments made to torque intervention limits, temperature management and transmission coolant pump operation

You can see these mentioned in APRs TCU Tune breakdown....

99088


Pete

[UkuRiSh]

I had big issue with the clutch slippage when I add the boost. I had problem with dropped 2nd gear and slippage of all gears after shifts this was 100% related to TCU/ECU Calibration and took us almost a year to dail in tune. Lots of logs / launches was made last year. Right now only on 3rd > 4th shift gear small slippage and I’m pretty sure Josh can take care of that too. Just remember my car makes a lot more torque so you guys definitely have more room to play with the tune.

[Loe]

fwiw, my last tuner's TCU tune had engine rpm fluxuation post-shift on the 3-4 upshift, it wasn't necessarily gear slippage as you can see in VCDS logs the input/outputs speeds were really close together. It was really more of the clutching that induced rocking motions on the drivetrain.

[Bryan@EP]

fwiw, my last tuner's TCU tune had engine rpm fluxuation post-shift on the 3-4 upshift, it wasn't necessarily gear slippage as you can see in VCDS logs the input/outputs speeds were really close together. It was really more of the clutching that induced rocking motions on the drivetrain.

Hmm this is good to know. Maybe this is what I’m experiencing. Thanks for the info.

[maty360414]

I am bypassing boost and Tony gave me new TCU to address a torque limit. I did not know a TCU could address that

[Instig8]

I've abused mine with over 150 on the launch counter and experience zero slippage. I gotta say it's pretty stout for what it is, however what I can say is maybe I'm the only one experiencing this but once the tranny heats up over a certain temp it won't allow you to use launch control.

[dadwgn]

Anyone know how to raise the tq limit above 500nm on a a4 b8.5??

[Zbichu]

By editing a TCU and ECU software. Simple, but need some tools.

[scls4]

By editing a TCU and ECU software. Simple, but need some tools.

I have the SSP 800ft lbs clutch packs after OEM failed during a launch (was not launch control, just matted the gas from a stop, spun hard in 1st and clutch smoked when shifting to second). These have been a huge improvement over OEM.

https://www.sspperformance.com/audi-s4-dsg-s-tronic/clutch-package/audi-s4-800-ft-lbs-torque-clutch-package.html

[Zbichu]

Replacing clutches will not raise the limit :)

[fastboatster]

Off topic, but is there a consensus on whether tcu tunes make the dl501 transmission to last longer or make it wear out faster? I’d think that faster shifts might be beneficial to clutch life since there’s less slippage and heat generation provided they are not so abrupt they stress out the drivetrain too much. Trying to figure out if I want a tcu tune on my just repaired transmission. Basically something which would not wear out the new clutch plates too fast or had no effect at all

[scls4]

Replacing clutches will not raise the limit :)

But adding new clutches that have additional clutch plates increase the amount of friction surface, thus increasing the amount of torque the clutches can handle

[UkuRiSh]

But adding new clutches that have additional clutch plates increase the amount of friction surface, thus increasing the amount of torque the clutches can handle

He was talking about software limit not a physical clutch pressure ! Even if you have more clamp force on clutch pack TCU will adjust or drop oil pressure in the clutch when reached 500Nm on stock software. For example ! When I had OEM clutches my tuner add the pressure to 15-16bar and when I installed my DCT Stage 3 aka Dima Deka Clutch Kit my TCU automatically drop pressure to 11-12bar with out any tune just a adaptation of transmission. DL501 is not 100% unlocked yet it’s a lot more potential in there and i hope sometimes soon TCU will be fully unlock with understandable aftermarket software that can be adjust very easy by users