Any reason not to chip?

[decent dan]

I've just bought a '15 Florett Silver/black optic S4... it's on a truck headed for the midwest right now, I've not seen it in person or driven it so I'm anxious to get my hands on it! Its CPO and I've seen a lot of pics so I'm pretty confident it's in good shape.

Anyway I've been reading up in this forum and surprised to find out how much power you can add with a Stage 2 chip and a pulley...

The only downside I've found is that it might void my warranty or at least give the dealer a reason to decline warranty work on the drivetrain.

What else am I missing? Does the extra power wear out the DSG? Does it cause failure of other components over time? Bad gas mileage?

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[theweebabyseamus]

You’ve got t all figured out.

[onlyaudis]

more boost, torque and power generates more stress and heat. no real long term scientific studies done on it on our cars of course, but I am pretty sure cats will fail sooner, and chances for wear & failures on DSG components , the sports dif, etc will likely go up. how much, nobody really knows. Cats are probbaly the most vulnerable.

more chances of losing your driver's license too[>_<]

[jygesq]

Drive it stock, you will be very surprised how fast and capable it is!

[awwturbo]

Don't modify your car. It's a ticking time bomb if you do. Believe you me.

[kevinz]

might void my warranty or at least give the dealer a reason to decline warranty work on the drivetrain.

Yep. Plenty of stories around here about getting the dreaded "TD1" flag on tuned cars. CPO gives you up to another 50,000 miles on top of the factory 50,000 warranty (up to a certain number of years since inservice date I think, check for yourself). On an Audi that's a pretty nice bonus.

Have you ever had a car like this before? As mentioned above it is incredibly quick out of the box. I was amazed when I first drove mine (coming from some 2.0T VWs)

I would say drive it for a while and really think if you want to go down the apparently addictive road of mods and maybe having to eat a repair that would otherwise have been covered under warranty. Only you can make that value call.

For me, I got a Chipwerke piggyback that gives a nice little extra push and is really easy to take off when I have to take it in with no trace of it having been on. It's fast enough to leave most other cars on the road in my rear view mirror when I want to. I think when my CPO warranty is coming to a close and I lose the car payment I'll get a proper tune and a SC pulley mod to breathe some new life into it.

And if you think you're worried about gas mileage, you won't be once you drive it :) However I got about 20-21mpg both before and after my mod. YMMV

Welcome to the club :)

[Corradobrit]

I got Stage 1 after my factory warranty expired. Don't kid yourself a tune makes a big difference. I also find my gas mileage is better too. Tried the DSG tune and returned it since I didn't think there was any benefits for me as I drive in manual mode 99% of the time.

No plans to go Stage 2 for the reasons stated above. Just putting on some lightweight wheels and tires and installing a CAI.

Get a CR15 brace. I was surprised how noticeably improved roll and flex is up front. Bonus is the dealer will probably never notice.

[waxxonMTL]

Drive it stock, you will be very surprised how fast and capable it is!

Only stock people would say that. Stage 2 is the minimum.

0-100 in 5 sec is meh. I mean, a cobalt ss will run you LOL !

[wangshuo1989]

The car is pretty fast at stock form already but the handling could be improved. To not throw your warranty away, I suggest do suspension mod first (CR15, Alu Kreuz, sway bars). After your warranty expires you can tune the car.

[mercedesinfarct]

what a silly statement.

[TEB]

The tune itself isn't going to break anything. If you go stg 2 or 3 and rarely launch all-out and typically don't get close to redline, you aren't likely to have any premature failures. If you're always on it, stuff will probably wear out sooner.

I have a Unitronic, so I can flash back to stock myself and have a non-Audi warranty which can be administered by my Indy shop (which also happens to be my tuner). I'm reasonably confident they can help me navigate any warranty issues.

[Dannydyn]

You paid premium to get a CPO, you might as well get your money out of it. I wouldn't do anything to the car that can't be easily reversed should you need to take it for service or address any problems that may arise. I'd start stock. If you then feel you need a little more power, get a Chipwerke... it will give you Stage 1 numbers, and can easily be removed if/when needed, or get an EPL tune - you can flash your car on your own at your own place. Once the warranty expires, go full "zero Fcks given mode" with a stage 2 DP.

JMO.

[Venumous]

Buying CPO and going TD1 immediately isn't really the most sensible thing to do. I bought a 12 with low mileage specifically because there was no drivetrain warranty left to kill. A smart move would be Chipwerkes Stage 1 (no ECU detectable flags once removed from the car) and throw a CTS intake on it for some whine. You'll be missing out on the low end TQ of Stage 2 and will be stuck with the B8.5 lower redline with no TCU tune though.

[Dr GP]

As others have said,if you want to keep your warranty, go with the Chipwerke Pro. But drive it for a while in dynamic setting so you can feel the difference.between auto and comfort if you (hopefully) have the sport Dif

[wangshuo1989]

I remember seeing a thread that piggyback can be detected as well these days. That wouldn’t surprise me because the boost level it’s requesting is well over OEM range. Audi simply needs to take a look at one of these log files to find out what might happened to the car. Once you mess with ECU to get more power, be prepared to pay for anything that’s Powertrain related when it broke, plain and simple.

[Dannydyn]

I remember seeing a thread that piggyback can be detected as well these days. That wouldn’t surprise me because the boost level it’s requesting is well over OEM range. Audi simply needs to take a look at one of these log files to find out what might happened to the car. Once you mess with ECU to get more power, be prepared to pay for anything that’s Powertrain related when it broke, plain and simple.

With a Chipwerke you are not 'messing' with the ECU. The boost map remains stock. A Chipwerke merely makes the ECU think that more boost is needed on a second by second basis, but nothing within the ECU code itself is changed. The car doesn't keep any logs. An over-boost may generate at worst an error code, but that code in and of itself cannot prove any mischief. Unlike in an ECU tune, the map remains stock, so the code itself it meaningless, or at least not sufficient to prove without a doubt that the engine was pushed past it's stock boost parameters.

And that code can be easily cleared out with Carista if you're really paranoid.

[sacandagaD]

The car doesn't keep any logs. An over-boost may generate at worst an error code, but that code in and of itself cannot prove any mischief. Unlike in an ECU tune, the map remains stock, so the code itself it meaningless, or at least not sufficient to prove without a doubt that the engine was pushed past it's stock boost parameters.

And that code can be easily cleared out with Carista if you're really paranoid.

^ This.

The community is still waiting for the first member to come out and say they actually got TD1'd from a piggy. They've gone mainstream now, with even ECS selling them and touting the ease of removeability and lack of detection as selling features.

[sholzy]

Heard of transmission issues after takin them off


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[sacandagaD]

Heard of transmission issues after takin them off


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Do tell.

[Senseless]

Yep. Plenty of stories around here about getting the dreaded "TD1" flag on tuned cars. CPO gives you up to another 50,000 miles on top of the factory 50,000 warranty (up to a certain number of years since inservice date I think, check for yourself). On an Audi that's a pretty nice bonus. :)

Newest CPO only covers the car for a year after the original warranty runs out. Unlimited miles.

[decent dan]

Newest CPO only covers the car for a year after the original warranty runs out. Unlimited miles.Yep.

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[Ford Prefect]

^ This.

The community is still waiting for the first member to come out and say they actually got TD1'd from a piggy. They've gone mainstream now, with even ECS selling them and touting the ease of removeability and lack of detection as selling features.

I immediately switched to my browser to verify that ECS does in fact sell them now!

Truly mainstream and the best option for cars with a warranty.

Personally I like to buy cheap with 100k and damn the torpedos! But then again, I have a backup grocery getter in case it breaks.


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[MSq5]

I've just bought a '15 Florett Silver/black optic S4... it's on a truck headed for the midwest right now, I've not seen it in person or driven it so I'm anxious to get my hands on it! Its CPO and I've seen a lot of pics so I'm pretty confident it's in good shape.

Anyway I've been reading up in this forum and surprised to find out how much power you can add with a Stage 2 chip and a pulley...

The only downside I've found is that it might void my warranty or at least give the dealer a reason to decline warranty work on the drivetrain.

What else am I missing? Does the extra power wear out the DSG? Does it cause failure of other components over time? Bad gas mileage?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

It's not a chip. It's a remapped ECU file for a true tune. Or go Chipwerke Pro which is a piggyback that modifies that signal to your MAP sensors. Chipwerke does not modify the ECU. It leaves no trace, to my knowledge when removed. So, it should not be detected by the dealer if removed.

But, my experiment with Chipwerke Pro was mixed. It makes good power, but is rough around the edges. Abrupt and caused jerky behavior at part throttle upshifts.

I ended up going EPL Stage 2 with 179mm crank pulley. Easy install. Flash from home. Very smooth power delivery. Massive torque everywhere. No vices. Your original ECU map is stored and can be reloaded for trip to dealer.

[Corradobrit]

Newest CPO only covers the car for a year after the original warranty runs out. Unlimited miles.

Thats a ripoff. Why pay $2-3K premium for CPO with only 1 year extra cover, unless you're planning a round-the-world road trip. When did this new CPO come into effect?

[wangshuo1989]

Thats a ripoff. Why pay $2-3K premium for CPO with only 1 year extra cover, unless you're planning a round-the-world road trip. When did this new CPO come into effect?

It started at May 1st, 2018..

[Corradobrit]

It started at May 1st, 2018..

Wow that recent. I had no idea. Doesn't say much about how they view longevity of their current vehicles and/or the testing to achieve CPO status.

[Loe]

no reason not to, yes you do run the risk of CPO warranty expiration/cancellation. If you can flash back to stock, it would minimize it.

The engine is stout, really nothing would go wrong besides basic high-mileage maintenance items such as a PVC valve, DSG fluids, diff fluids, brakes. We aren't close to seeing what SRM was able to accomplish when they punished the 3.0t, no one is pushing near the awtq that they tested this engine on, and the rods/engine block didn't break a sweat. If I were to keep my car, I don't suspect I would run into issues even past 150k miles on this engine in its current state of mods, Audi did their homework and learned from their rather high-maintenance/nightmare 1.8t, early 2.0t, 2.7tt engines that had parts that would often fail unless you upgraded it to more stout parts.

The B8.5 transmission is stout, I have 985 launch control count on mine without issues.

[MN Blue S4]

I think they made the changes to the CPO to more closely match what BMW and Mercedes do for their certified warranties.

[VeeDubbinJetta]

I’ve got a little over a year left on my 14 with cpo. As Loe said, these engines are damn near bulletproof. I recently went stage 2 034 and could not be happier. They also offer a loaner cable to flash from home if you want to go that route. I don’t think you can really go wrong with whichever tuner you choose. I almost went the chipwerke route but after reading reviews especially on DSG cars I decided to do it right.

[Corradobrit]

I think they made the changes to the CPO to more closely match what BMW and Mercedes do for their certified warranties.

Bmw offer the option to extend CPO to 2 years ie 6years/100K.

[Low Orbit]

I am just about to buy out my lease on a 2016 S4 and hate that the CPO is now just 1 year as I only have 20K on my car now after nearly 3 years.

What extended warranty option would people suggest? I have a DSG and sport diff and I heard it's expensive if they break.

[Luna's S4]

no reason not to, yes you do run the risk of CPO warranty expiration/cancellation. If you can flash back to stock, it would minimize it.

The engine is stout, really nothing would go wrong besides basic high-mileage maintenance items such as a PVC valve, DSG fluids, diff fluids, brakes. We aren't close to seeing what SRM was able to accomplish when they punished the 3.0t, no one is pushing near the awtq that they tested this engine on, and the rods/engine block didn't break a sweat. If I were to keep my car, I don't suspect I would run into issues even past 150k miles on this engine in its current state of mods, Audi did their homework and learned from their rather high-maintenance/nightmare 1.8t, early 2.0t, 2.7tt engines that had parts that would often fail unless you upgraded it to more stout parts.

The B8.5 transmission is stout, I have 985 launch control count on mine without issues.

I agree. I don't have the number of launches you do [:p] and still didn't have any drive train problems through the original and CPO warranty period. Thermostat was it and it was still under warranty, but I don't think they had a choice other than replacing it on AoA's dime anyway. And I have had the tune from 25k miles and 2 years old. Not to jinx the whole thing but other than some coolant leaks, the drivetrain has been solid. And I get a best of 27 mpg highway with the Revo Stage 1 tune but can't keep my foot out of it on the street.

[Rectangle]

It started at May 1st, 2018..

This is what pushed me to pick up my 2015 S4 CPO in April. I only put on like 6 or 7k miles a year, so the extra time was a lot more important to me than the extra mileage.

[Tom Sawyer]

Thats a ripoff. Why pay $2-3K premium for CPO with only 1 year extra cover, unless you're planning a round-the-world road trip. When did this new CPO come into effect?

Exactly the reason I passed on a CPO and bought a '16 with 10k miles left on the factory. Saved myself $5k and got more options that the CPO's I saw at the time...FWIW. It's too bad, when I bought my first S4 (B5 2000 model) it was CPO and added a significant amount of time to the warranty (at least 2 or 3 years IIRC, and up to 100k miles). But, it's business and money to Audi/VW and we all know how that goes.

I'm also in the camp of waiting until the factory (or CPO) is up before modding too much, would just rather not have to play any games with a suspicious dealer and/or push the chance of having something unrelated break and not be covered. Just my approach/.02.

[doughboy17]

Newest CPO only covers the car for a year after the original warranty runs out. Unlimited miles.

This could be a significant deterrent to me buying future Audis.

[Opiate]

I'm on my 2nd S4. 2013 6MT - 20K stock (thought i loved it) / 30K on stage 2+ DP (you don't know real love until you experience Stage 2+ in this car). every single service done at the dealer. they knew and didn't care.
My 2014 i tuned the day after i picked up from the dealer. had to throw a stage 1 on cuz i couldn't bear driving that car stock. so far 15K miles. Every service done at the dealer. They dont' care. It has been an incredibly rewarding platform to own.

[Dakkath]

My advice.

Go stage 2 and DSG software if you have DSG. (it's fairly expensive ~3K) but WELL worth it.

If you are a gear head and dont mind messing around or having theoretically some issues you can go stage 2+ (and mandatory cooling upgrades). I say you may have issues due to Cat's being blown.

The cars performance really opens up w/Stage 2, it's insane; and with the GIAC tune they advertise ~430HP w/pump and 460HP w/race. I've never dyno'd my car, but I can tell you it's fucking fast on pump gas.

Just make sure you get some good tires, suspension pieces, and maybe better braking in the future. I had my stg2 put on at 10K miles. Currently at 16K. Flawless.


You will get a TD1 at a dealer though; so pay to play. Or flash back to stock before service @ dealer.

[Chris@EPL]

We have Stage 2 with our SC pulley, belt, TCU tune and a cable for $1849 shipped in the USA except for CT right now and we can give you Stage 1 and the TCU tune until you get the pulley installed. You flash the tune yourself with our cable, a wifi connection and a real windows laptop. And no issues with going to the dealer.

[sacandagaD]

We have Stage 2 with our SC pulley, belt, TCU tune and a cable for $1849 shipped in the USA except for CT right now and we can give you Stage 1 and the TCU tune until you get the pulley installed. You flash the tune yourself with our cable, a wifi connection and a real windows laptop. And no issues with going to the dealer.

Chris- How does the TCU tune stay under the dealer radar, does it not show up on a scan as going over the stock redline?

[Rectangle]

Chris- How does the TCU tune stay under the dealer radar, does it not show up on a scan as going over the stock redline?

The way I read that would seem to imply that his Stage 1 ECU tune would ALSO not be giving you any problems at the dealer, sooooo.....?

[Chris@EPL]

Chris- How does the TCU tune stay under the dealer radar, does it not show up on a scan as going over the stock redline?

Nether tune is an issue. You would flash the TCU back to stock as well and when you flash it clears all DTCs and we also always recommend flashing back to stock a few days to a week before service as well.

[Powderhound]

Pretty sure "no problem" means flash back to stock before visiting the dealer, which can be done quick and easy at home with the EPL tune.

[Alfonso@GIAC]

We offer a Flashloader Mobile device which will allow you to flash both your ECU and TCU there at home and does not require a computer to flash. It is a stand alone flashing device.
Comes with both GIAC performance files and stock files specific to your ECU and TCU part numbers. Comes with a 20 channel data logger as well.
Doesn't alter the flash counter on the vehicle either which is a big giveaway on these vehicles. For stage 1 on pump mode with DSG software shipped to your door is about $1,720 (usd).