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AudiA4_20T
01-25-2006, 04:36 PM
Hey just wondering, I know our engines are longitudinal and not transverse, but there are plenty of BT setups on VR6s, why none on ours. If parts are available for both 1.8Ts, why not both V6s? Ive seen them on the 12V VR6 motors... I know supercharger is great, but some people cant live without the turbo...

Are the engines designed differently? Or is there no room or what? Thanks.

SeattleA4
01-25-2006, 04:42 PM
ummm I think its called an S4

AudiA4_20T
01-25-2006, 04:43 PM
yea true but why not get an S4 rather then a 1.8T? Its gonna be around the same for all the hardware for a turbo kit on a 1.8T and 2.8...

offroader1006
01-25-2006, 05:45 PM
hah, yeah right

BranCKY3
01-25-2006, 05:48 PM
I'd love to see a 2.8 with a turbo. A lot of the VR6 guys put down huge numbers, but you never see any A4's with 2.8's doing it.

Poopie
01-25-2006, 05:51 PM
The VR6 is a popular motor. The 30v V6 isn't something someone wants to dump a lot of investment in time to develop a turbo set up. I think a small car company uses an audi 30v v6 with a twin turbo set up producing 400 hp.

audispeed
01-25-2006, 05:58 PM
1) the vr6 is vastly different from the 2.8 in audis
2) same for the hardware on a 2.8 v. a 1.8?
try double the amount of components for the v-6 as an inline 4
so you say software should be the same, there is a large market and range of options for the 1.8, and none for the 2.8
3) 2.8 cant handle serious boost as a 1.8 can because the 2.8 has a high compression ratio. Rumor is(fairly reliable) PES ran some development 2.8's on around 12-14 psi of boost and they went boom. Sotck G2 pushes 7 psi or so. People are running small pulleys up to 10 psi with safe results so far. Above that, water injection or some form of intercooling is needed but still not gauranteed to prevent your engine from going boom.
4) there isnt much room. there is room, but it's like trying to fit 10 people in a ford tempo. its been done, but its not fun or easy.
5) finally, use the search button. this has been talked about numerous times. One guy actually used components from a 2.7t to turbocharge his 2.8. he worked at a shop and had a great line on parts. his estimate when all was said and done, $10k. there is a 2.7t with tranny, rear diff, and axles in the classifieds for $6k. that is a much better bet the turboing the 2.8.


btw, this is all coming from someone with a supercharged 2.8. so believe me, i have thought about and looked into it.

audispeed
01-25-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Poopie
The VR6 is a popular motor. The 30v V6 isn't something someone wants to dump a lot of investment in time to develop a turbo set up. I think a small car company uses an audi 30v v6 with a twin turbo set up producing 400 hp.

noble used to use a audi sourced turbocharged 2.8 to make 400+ hp in the development m12's, IIRC. they stopped because audi was charging them too much for the motors. I can assure you that those motors were not running stock internals.

AudiA4_20T
01-25-2006, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by audispeed
1) the vr6 is vastly different from the 2.8 in audis
2) same for the hardware on a 2.8 v. a 1.8?
try double the amount of components for the v-6 as an inline 4
so you say software should be the same, there is a large market and range of options for the 1.8, and none for the 2.8
3) 2.8 cant handle serious boost as a 1.8 can because the 2.8 has a high compression ratio. Rumor is(fairly reliable) PES ran some development 2.8's on around 12-14 psi of boost and they went boom. Sotck G2 pushes 7 psi or so. People are running small pulleys up to 10 psi with safe results so far. Above that, water injection or some form of intercooling is needed but still not gauranteed to prevent your engine from going boom.
4) there isnt much room. there is room, but it's like trying to fit 10 people in a ford tempo. its been done, but its not fun or easy.
5) finally, use the search button. this has been talked about numerous times. One guy actually used components from a 2.7t to turbocharge his 2.8. he worked at a shop and had a great line on parts. his estimate when all was said and done, $10k. there is a 2.7t with tranny, rear diff, and axles in the classifieds for $6k. that is a much better bet the turboing the 2.8.


btw, this is all coming from someone with a supercharged 2.8. so believe me, i have thought about and looked into it.

perfect, yea Ill search next time.. Thats all I wanted to hear. Didnt think about the compression, I guess the VR6 compressions are different. Good point about the software. I mean that basically with the exception of tuning it would be around the same price for just the turbo, manifold, injectors, etc. but thanks a lot I always wondered and a buddy of mine has a 2.8 and was wondering as well

TwentyValveB5
01-25-2006, 07:20 PM
the difference in the VR6 isn's so much the compression, but just engine layout all together.

the VR6 (which actually means inline-V) is a 15-degree V, uses just one cylinder head, and the exhaust manifold looks more like a straight 6, thus it's easier to make a new manifold to feed a single turbo than it is a 90-degree V6 like the 30V 2.8 is... that's why the S4 uses a bi-turbo setup.

i hope that helps clear it up a bit.

Poopie
01-25-2006, 07:22 PM
^ hmm didn't know that the vr6 uses a single head. Now the whole w12 motor makes sense. Lol

SeattleA4
01-25-2006, 09:52 PM
http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/103416/21.jpg

TwentyValveB5
01-25-2006, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by SeattleA4
http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/103416/21.jpg

YSATI, and YSATVR6

about the VR6 engine (http://www.answers.com/topic/vr6)

RAyala2.7T
01-25-2006, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by BranCKY3
I'd love to see a 2.8 with a turbo. A lot of the VR6 guys put down huge numbers, but you never see any A4's with 2.8's doing it.


Ask and you shall receive!Twin Turbo Passat from the same creator of the S4 w/ garret t3's (http://www.passatworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149202&page=1&pp=30)

NoNonsense
01-26-2006, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by Poopie
^ hmm didn't know that the vr6 uses a single head. Now the whole w12 motor makes sense. Lol

for reference:
http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/A810089134ELR.JPG

A4orce84
01-26-2006, 11:08 AM
Though this is a little off topic....not trying to start any wars here or anything. But aren't S/C's generally more reliable than turbos? I mean people who are running the G1 or G2 system on their 2.8s seem like they rarely have any problems.

Also....G1 or G2 system on a 2.8 is faster than a Stock S4 correct? I think the G2 is 295 crank, and S4's are 250 crank......so A4 2.8 with S/C can theoritically spank an S right?

--Asif

mike-2ptzero
01-26-2006, 12:54 PM
They have problems, its just that you dont hear about them and the fact that there are way less SC 2.8's then there are 1.8t's.

Most of the SC 2.8's run high 13's to low 14's, this is about equal or slower then stock S4's.

AsianA408
01-26-2006, 02:30 PM
well we all know that it is possible to turbo the 2.8. a passat owner has done it.

mike-2ptzero
01-26-2006, 02:45 PM
Thats a lot of work just to run 7psi of boost.

RAyala2.7T
01-26-2006, 03:03 PM
^^^well he does own a shop with all the means to do that kind of a project. hell, tax write off if anything.

mike-2ptzero
01-26-2006, 05:49 PM
You dont get a tax write off for working on your own project car. You just take it as a business loss.

RAyala2.7T
01-26-2006, 06:33 PM
what if its your company vehicle and you need to do some "maintenance"?

TwentyValveB5
01-26-2006, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by SeattleA4
ummm I think its called an S4

that would be a 2.7t, champ