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View Full Version : Smartest and most cost effective way to rebuild the tfsi head ?



Krmass25
04-15-2018, 12:08 PM
After finding theres no leakdown or compression issues with my engine I'm satisfied with the stock bottom end for my k04 setup.

That leaves only the top end to rebuild for big horsepower and reliability improvements.

After researching IE top ends, Ebay rebuild kits and the options available it is looking like the cheapest option with the highest performance requires building a head yourself.

The IE head is beautiful but expensive. You can't get any better for $3600 with Ferrea valves installed with alll custom components by hand but if driving on the street and if high quality can be had for -$1000 or more then it is worth it to go the cheaper route. Some people will never notice a difference with supertech valves vs. ferrea valves the cost is usually up to $500 + / - so going the cheaper route can be worth it when trying to rebuild the car. Five hundred dollars can go into a large suspension or other engine upgrade that would equal horse power and more reliability in another area rather than a marginal increase in valve rain components.


I'd like to find out once and for all if one could technically remove the head. Do a hand port and polish and end up saving money while having a high quality head rebuild.

I'm trying to lock down a complete parts list needed if doing the job yourself. From what I understand we need:

Head

16 valves
16 valve guides
16 valve seals
16 valve springs / retainers
16 sets of valve locks (32 pieces)

Camshafts
Camshaft bearings

8 intake rockers
8 intake lifters

8 exhaust rocker / lifter assemblies

ARP head bolts

ARP cam girdle bolts

various seals and gaskets



Anything missing? [confused]


[:/]

jazzyjay18
04-15-2018, 03:45 PM
I don't think you will see any change over what you have now, unless you have changed you redline to 8k+. I say this because you said you are not experiencing any problem now (valve float), or plan on going to a higher lift/duration cam. You can check you valve springs compression rate most likely it will be in factory tolerances. You can get a higher compression rate spring or a small shim on the factory spring, but it will in turn put more pressure on the camshaft via the lifters (all being still stock). I run a head on my DSM with larger valves that are nitride coated, valve seats cut to match, CNC ported, with beehive springs. I only noticed a significant difference when I am running NOS in the 1/4 over a factory rebuilt head with just aftermarket springs (I shift at 8200). Yes there is a gain to be had but you can get that same 10th of a second or more by putting a set of forged wheels on the car, especially if you go down to 18s with a smaller circumference tire.

Krmass25
04-15-2018, 04:33 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of maintenance. To have no oil sneaking past the seals and while things are apart just take advantage of anything inexpensive worth doing. A port and polish can be close to the gains a cnc head has if done correctly and as far as the valve train goes wouldn't it be worth having it be all brand new and tight with superior valves, springs, titanium retainers etc? It definitely can't hurt anything .

aluthman
04-15-2018, 05:02 PM
A full Ferrea valvetrain can be had for ~$800 if you know how to buy it. It's unlikely that most people will be able to replace the guides themselves, but it's not impossible with the correct tools. You can absolutely benefit from a hand port/polish if it is done correctly. I've built a few of these heads now but have yet to try my hand at porting and polishing.

Krmass25
04-16-2018, 12:01 PM
A full Ferrea valvetrain can be had for ~$800 if you know how to buy it. It's unlikely that most people will be able to replace the guides themselves, but it's not impossible with the correct tools. You can absolutely benefit from a hand port/polish if it is done correctly. I've built a few of these heads now but have yet to try my hand at porting and polishing.

Care to point me in the right direction?

aluthman
04-16-2018, 03:20 PM
Care to point me in the right direction?

Know anyone on active duty or a veteran? Ferrea offers a 40% military discount on their website.

Krmass25
04-16-2018, 10:10 PM
as a matter of fact yes. Wow Good observation and tip sir

Krmass25
04-27-2018, 04:44 PM
What are the easiest to access / replace parts while the valve cover is off?

B5A4coastie
04-28-2018, 03:16 AM
Know anyone on active duty or a veteran? Ferrea offers a 40% military discount on their website.

Great intel, thank you.

EvolutionArmory
04-28-2018, 04:42 AM
Honestly, why mod your head for a K04 build?

These heads flow pretty good, a K04 will probably lose steam before the head canít flow and the weakness is the bottom end, not the top.

Seems like a way to blow some dough for not really much gain? Or am I way off?

aluthman
04-28-2018, 04:47 AM
Honestly, why mod your head for a K04 build?

These heads flow pretty good, a K04 will probably lose steam before the head canít flow and the weakness is the bottom end, not the top.

Seems like a way to blow some dough for not really much gain? Or am I way off?

This is very true. If you never intend to go above k04, building the head is a waste of money. It's only worth it if you have a big turbo that needs high rpm. If you're staying k04, just freshen up the stock head and you're fine.

EvolutionArmory
04-28-2018, 05:04 AM
I mean, just reading his first post made me a little confused. Stock bottom end but built head on a K04? You would think that the money would be better spent on upgrading the spaghetti rods. Being able to handle more torque down low is going to be way more beneficial than high end HP for his chosen equipment.

Most of these cars only need drop in rods and maybe a new oil pump to be rock solid.

Krmass25
04-28-2018, 08:42 AM
I mean, just reading his first post made me a little confused. Stock bottom end but built head on a K04? You would think that the money would be better spent on upgrading the spaghetti rods. Being able to handle more torque down low is going to be way more beneficial than high end HP for his chosen equipment.

Most of these cars only need drop in rods and maybe a new oil pump to be rock solid.


How hard is it to "drop in rods"? Can you drop the oil pan and remove the assembly or does the engine need to be completely removed?

And while doing this wouldn't it be smart to rebuild the bottom end / re- ring to freshen it up a great deal? ARP fasteners, blueprint crank etc?

Krmass25
04-28-2018, 08:43 AM
This is very true. If you never intend to go above k04, building the head is a waste of money. It's only worth it if you have a big turbo that needs high rpm. If you're staying k04, just freshen up the stock head and you're fine.

So what do you consider freshening up the head? That's exactly what I am trying to figure out. What is easy and cheap to swap in the head while the valve cover is being replaced? The lifters? The cam tower bolts? The valve springs? Can we come up with a parts list for a no hassle freshen up to do while the valve cover is off. ?

aluthman
04-28-2018, 01:06 PM
So what do you consider freshening up the head? That's exactly what I am trying to figure out. What is easy and cheap to swap in the head while the valve cover is being replaced? The lifters? The cam tower bolts? The valve springs? Can we come up with a parts list for a no hassle freshen up to do while the valve cover is off. ?

As long as the mileage on the head isn't super high, I'c do a carbon clean, valve job, and replace valve seals. No real need to replace anything else unless it is damaged or you're approaching 200k miles.

aluthman
04-28-2018, 01:17 PM
How hard is it to "drop in rods"? Can you drop the oil pan and remove the assembly or does the engine need to be completely removed?

And while doing this wouldn't it be smart to rebuild the bottom end / re- ring to freshen it up a great deal? ARP fasteners, blueprint crank etc?

The engine needs to be pulled to do it right. It's not a hard job though. I would absolutely replace bearings, gaskets, and rings if I was installing rods. ARP fasteners aren't really necessary, but they are reusable if you ever plan to open the engine again. I've saved lots of money reusing ARP studs instead of replacing stock bolts all the time.

EvolutionArmory
04-29-2018, 07:08 AM
Honestly brother, leave the head alone.

Build your bottom end and get one of the more aggressive K04 tunes once your rods can handle the torque spike.

If you have to rebuild your head for whatever reason youíve come up with, just use OEM parts. But honestly, unless youíre having problems with your head, thereís really no need to even mess with it.