The aesthetic evolution of a 2017 RS7 ~1 year in

[limeypride]

I recently started chatting over PM and email with a brand new RS7 owner. I compiled a timeline of my car's aesthetic changes in an email to him and thought it might be appreciated here, too.

Here's how she looked when stock. There's nothing wrong with it but it's more "nice" than whoa!
53478

I never liked the RS7's (albeit subjectively) narrow tires (275s) that come from the factory so my first exterior mod was wheels and tires. I went for TSW Bathursts wearing 295/25/21s.
53479

53480

53481
I think it's fair to say that made a big difference.

Sadly, my wheels were bent crossing a bridge-join under construction (I think) so I fixed them, sold them and went for Vertini RF1.3 20" rims wearing 295/30/20s.
53482
I was initially over the moon with the look but eventually (quickly) came to dislike the gap between the rubber and the wheel arch so the car had to be lowered. Since the car is the Performance model, it doesn't have air suspension so I bought the KW height adjustable springs (HAS).

53490

53491

53492
... now THAT'S what I'm talking about. I couldn't be more pleased with how she looks today exterior-wise.

Somewhere amongst making these exterior mods, I fixed the two interior concerns that had struck me from day one: the disco-ball shift knob and Fisher Price paddle shifters.

Before:
53517
After:
53499

53518

53524

Performance-wise, I've run APR stage I, APR stage II and currently have a custom tune from a local shop.

Did I mention I f#ck!ng LOVE THIS CAR! [hail]

[brad65ford]

From nice to freaking awesome. Me likely [cool]

[OlyS6]

Nice work! What’s next?


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[limeypride]

Nice work! What’s next?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm gonna see about replacing some of the body panels with an Aston Martin DB11 Volante--the engine stays, though. Not sure the wife's onboard yet.

Honestly, I'm not sure what's left. I'm keeping tabs on these now-fabled hybrid-turbos... and the downpipe thing just feels a bit "meh" at this point. Performance mods remain on my radar but not much else springs to mind beyond that.

[skirch]

That's one stunning ride you got there with visually appealing mods. Great job there.

If I may, take note of the wheel orientation the next time you want to snap a quick picture. As the photographer did on the one you share here, turn the wheels the opposite direction you'll be taking the picture from. Those 295s are nice to look at but the wheels are sick(er) ;) It's the photographer in me that talks there.

Again, the car is stunning!

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[limeypride]

That's one stunning ride you got there with visually appealing mods. Great job there.

If I may, take note of the wheel orientation the next time you want to snap a quick picture. As the photographer did on the one you share here, turn the wheels the opposite direction you'll be taking the picture from. Those 295s are nice to look at but the wheels are sick(er) ;) It's the photographer in me that talks there.

Again, the car is stunning!

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Thanks.

I think I get that orientation wrong every time... well, I tried at least. Good advice, I'll try and get that right next time. [up]

[brad65ford]

Sean from SWM has one of the nicest turbo upgrades i've seen. But..... there seems to an issue with cooling so imho its not worth doing turbo upgrade just yet unless there is a complete package at this point. He mentioned he increased 2 psi from doing apr catted downpipes over stockers. Thought it would remove psi but that's what he said so assuming he is referring to that they do actual make a difference.

What where your dyno numbers btw?

[p3u]

Hey Limey, do you have the stock shifter lever for sale? I'm interested if you do.

[limeypride]

Hey Limey, do you have the stock shifter lever for sale? I'm interested if you do.

Hey! Sorry, I actually gave it away (seems like a bad idea in hindsight... c'est la vie).

[limeypride]

Sean from SWM has one of the nicest turbo upgrades i've seen. But..... there seems to an issue with cooling so imho its not worth doing turbo upgrade just yet unless there is a complete package at this point. He mentioned he increased 2 psi from doing apr catted downpipes over stockers. Thought it would remove psi but that's what he said so assuming he is referring to that they do actual make a difference.

What where your dyno numbers btw?

Per the dyno-day that Andre and I did together and while running the APR stage II file, she put down 621whp and 739ft-Ibs of wheel-torque on a 5th gear pull (93 file). Folks insist she'd do better with the DPs but I'm just not motivated for some reason. Perhaps if I lost a dragrace or something I would be [:)] ... but losing has yet to enter this car's vocabulary although I'm quite sure there are plenty of cars here that would help nudge interest in the other direction.

[IowaRS7]

This is the first I have seen mention of the custom tune from the local shop on your car, what are you seeing compared to the APR stage II tune? Dyno comparison? I imagine they used dyno tuning for the custom tune so would be cool to see results compared to your APR tune results. With a custom tune you should have less risk of issues with the stock DP since the APR stage II tune was designed with their DPs with high flow CATs. I would imagine however you are leaving some power on the table with the stock ones in place. You would change the exhaust note though (for the better imo) but that's not for everyone.

I too was looking back at my build thread recently and recall a post were you stated you were not going to go with the lowered suspension, sometimes I think these forums help us justify the next mod that we know we want but know they are poor financial decisions [:D]

Looks great BTW!!

[brad65ford]

Surprised to hear some are buying into the whole APR stage 1 vs stage 2 regarding dp's and or the need to have them to only run stage 2 software. Honestly its nothing more then marketing since the stage 2 can be run on stock dp's. When I did stage 1 (or so they called it) custom code on my rs7 I asked about this and they laughed since they gave you equivalent to say a stage stage 2 (timing/boost) highest performance and not hold back like apr does with stage one. I think there is mulitple of people running stage 2 with stock dp's.

Regarding dp's power increase. I haven't seen a before and after or 1/4 times difference but in theory i makes since that having cat less or high flow cats would surely add hp.

[brad65ford]

Per the dyno-day that Andre and I did together and while running the APR stage II file, she put down 621whp and 739ft-Ibs of wheel-torque on a 5th gear pull (93 file). Folks insist she'd do better with the DPs but I'm just not motivated for some reason. Perhaps if I lost a dragrace or something I would be [:)] ... but losing has yet to enter this car's vocabulary although I'm quite sure there are plenty of cars here that would help nudge interest in the other direction.

damn good solid numbers.

[IowaRS7]

Surprised to hear some are buying into the whole APR stage 1 vs stage 2 regarding dp's and or the need to have them to only run stage 2 software. Honestly its nothing more then marketing since the stage 2 can be run on stock dp's. When I did stage 1 (or so they called it) custom code on my rs7 I asked about this and they laughed since they gave you equivalent to say a stage stage 2 (timing/boost) highest performance and not hold back like apr does with stage one. I think there is mulitple of people running stage 2 with stock dp's.

Regarding dp's power increase. I haven't seen a before and after or 1/4 times difference but in theory i makes since that having cat less or high flow cats would surely add hp.

While you can run the car with their Stage II tune and stock DPs, the tune was designed with their DPs that are using higher flowing CATs, which means you could be running a different A/F ratio and getting different EGTs than expected. Likely not an issue with normal driving, but push the car hard for longer periods and it could be a real problem. The OTS tunes are designed based on a specific set of mods, with some capability of adapting to minor variables. The best results will almost always come from a custom tune for the exact mods you have, as long as the tuner knows what they are doing. The issue there is this becomes expensive, takes up a lot of time and is often limited to one octane map.

Regarding more power with high flow CATs, your are joking right? I mean it should be pretty clear that stock CATs designed for meeting Govt specs are not going to flow as much air as a high flow racing CAT. With turbo cars, any sort of restriction on the exhaust side is going to impact top end performance. Sure, your turbos may spool a few hundred RPM faster, but in the higher RPMs, you are leaving power on the table. I think some feel that down low torque coming on a little quicker and think they are making more power, but in reality they will get walked on the top end.

[bluenos]

I’ve been Limey’d! Very nice build and thanks for sharing. Lots to learn and will get there sometime soon.



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[limeypride]

This is the first I have seen mention of the custom tune from the local shop on your car, what are you seeing compared to the APR stage II tune? Dyno comparison? I imagine they used dyno tuning for the custom tune so would be cool to see results compared to your APR tune results. With a custom tune you should have less risk of issues with the stock DP since the APR stage II tune was designed with their DPs with high flow CATs. I would imagine however you are leaving some power on the table with the stock ones in place. You would change the exhaust note though (for the better imo) but that's not for everyone.

I too was looking back at my build thread recently and recall a post were you stated you were not going to go with the lowered suspension, sometimes I think these forums help us justify the next mod that we know we want but know they are poor financial decisions [:D]

Looks great BTW!!

Thanks on the looks front! I love it.

I've yet to post a comparison because I feel I lack sufficient useful data to do so... but I'll answer the question as best I can since you've brought it up [:D]. When I chose to step outside the norm and replace the APR tune, it wasn't because I don't like the APR product--quite the opposite in fact. I did it almost exclusively because the local tuner claimed (and backed up his claim) that he could raise the rpm-limiter (a SIGNIFICANT gripe of mine since day one)... plus it was exciting... and intriguing... which is I guess where the DP mod failed to motivate me. Anyhoo, my rpm-limiter is now confirmed at 7,000rpm and I'm still mulling over whether to increase it to 7,200rpm but it's on the table.

That said, we spent roughly 7-hours dyno'ing, testing, tweaking--rinse and repeat. One of the outcomes relative to the APR tune was the need to enrich the air:fuel ratio... and I can feel the end-result in daily driving, it's a bit more responsive at the top of the gas pedal; less dry-feeling perhaps (tough to describe if that wasn't apparent already). During the process, the tuner repeatedly expressed concern that the original logs (APR stage II) did not enrich the mixture at all and that would account for the knock he logged during pre-flash dyno tests (which he forcibly put a stop to after just two runs... yes, yes, I know this might be perceived as his putting down the competition but that's not the impression I left with... plus I'd already paid). The end-result is a very different drive: shifts are different (some better, some not); cold start + idle is NOT good--it feels like it falls repeatedly into stall recovery but that stops once warmed up... the tuner acknowledged this and is working on it. Performance-wise, there are times where she pulls so hard that I'd *swear* it's substantially more than even APR stage II... hardly objective data, though. Most of the time, it's tough to distinguish from a purely power perspective.

During the process of dyno'ing + tweaking, we (twice I think) put down substantially more than 800 ft Ibs of torque to the wheels (I forget the relative hp during those runs since he was dyno'ing frequently and somewhat back to back) but he yet again detected knock and dialed it back in. The end-result (knock-free) was 627 hp and 735 ft Ibs to the wheels in 4th gear (this is significant relative to the other runs I did with Andre since they're all in 4th gear and only the 5th gear run matched these numbers) on 92 octane pump-gas (no selectable files here)... but it's on a Mustang dyno so I'm really not sure what to make of it. For those that read this and think, "well, why not book the car back in on the dyno you used with Andre" to more closely compare like-to-like, that's already underway.

I'll create a new post when I've got something more to add... honest [up]

[limeypride]

I too was looking back at my build thread recently and recall a post were you stated you were not going to go with the lowered suspension, sometimes I think these forums help us justify the next mod that we know we want but know they are poor financial decisions [:D]

Looks great BTW!!

Yeah, per my earlier post, I just couldn't get over the look with the 20" wheels. I suspect when I stated that lowering wasn't on my radar, I was running on the 21s. But, I'm fickle and may simply have changed my mind [:d].

[limeypride]

I’ve been Limey’d! Very nice build and thanks for sharing. Lots to learn and will get there sometime soon.

Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

I hope it all helped, Joe! [up]

[IowaRS7]

Thanks on the looks front! I love it.

I've yet to post a comparison because I feel I lack sufficient useful data to do so... but I'll answer the question as best I can since you've brought it up [:D]. When I chose to step outside the norm and replace the APR tune, it wasn't because I don't like the APR product--quite the opposite in fact. I did it almost exclusively because the local tuner claimed (and backed up his claim) that he could raise the rpm-limiter (a SIGNIFICANT gripe of mine since day one)... plus it was exciting... and intriguing... which is I guess where the DP mod failed to motivate me. Anyhoo, my rpm-limiter is now confirmed at 7,000rpm and I'm still mulling over whether to increase it to 7,200rpm but it's on the table.

That said, we spent roughly 7-hours dyno'ing, testing, tweaking--rinse and repeat. One of the outcomes relative to the APR tune was the need to enrich the air:fuel ratio... and I can feel the end-result in daily driving, it's a bit more responsive at the top of the gas pedal; less dry-feeling perhaps (tough to describe if that wasn't apparent already). During the process, the tuner repeatedly expressed concern that the original logs (APR stage II) did not enrich the mixture at all and that would account for the knock he logged during pre-flash dyno tests (which he forcibly put a stop to after just two runs... yes, yes, I know this might be perceived as his putting down the competition but that's not the impression I left with... plus I'd already paid). The end-result is a very different drive: shifts are different (some better, some not); cold start + idle is NOT good--it feels like it falls repeatedly into stall recovery but that stops once warmed up... the tuner acknowledged this and is working on it. Performance-wise, there are times where she pulls so hard that I'd *swear* it's substantially more than even APR stage II... hardly objective data, though. Most of the time, it's tough to distinguish from a purely power perspective.

During the process of dyno'ing + tweaking, we (twice I think) put down substantially more than 800 ft Ibs of torque to the wheels (I forget the relative hp during those runs since he was dyno'ing frequently and somewhat back to back) but he yet again detected knock and dialed it back in. The end-result (knock-free) was 627 hp and 735 ft Ibs to the wheels in 4th gear (this is significant relative to the other runs I did with Andre since they're all in 4th gear) on 92 octane pump-gas (no selectable files here)... but it's on a Mustang dyno so I'm really not sure what to make of it. For those that read this and think, "well, why not book the car back in on the dyno you used with Andre" to more closely compare like-to-like, that's already underway.

I'll create a new post when I've got something more to add... honest [up]

Thanks for the info! Great fun and I wish I had an AWD dyno close to me!! Wondering if some of what you were seeing with the APR stage II tune was a result of not having the DPs. Less air flow, different boost curves, etc resulting in different A/F and EGT results.

[limeypride]

Thanks for the info! Great fun and I wish I had an AWD dyno close to me!! Wondering if some of what you were seeing with the APR stage II tune was a result of not having the DPs. Less air flow, different boost curves, etc resulting in different A/F and EGT results.

Of course.

And, yup, acknowledged--could be. My local guy wasn't convinced, though... but nothing fruitful down that path until we've got data to back it.

[JoeCaMotto]

From nice to freaking awesome. Me likely [cool]

+1 the beast looks awesome 👏

[NardoRS7]

Thanks on the looks front! I love it.

I've yet to post a comparison because I feel I lack sufficient useful data to do so... but I'll answer the question as best I can since you've brought it up [:D]. When I chose to step outside the norm and replace the APR tune, it wasn't because I don't like the APR product--quite the opposite in fact. I did it almost exclusively because the local tuner claimed (and backed up his claim) that he could raise the rpm-limiter (a SIGNIFICANT gripe of mine since day one)... plus it was exciting... and intriguing... which is I guess where the DP mod failed to motivate me. Anyhoo, my rpm-limiter is now confirmed at 7,000rpm and I'm still mulling over whether to increase it to 7,200rpm but it's on the table.

That said, we spent roughly 7-hours dyno'ing, testing, tweaking--rinse and repeat. One of the outcomes relative to the APR tune was the need to enrich the air:fuel ratio... and I can feel the end-result in daily driving, it's a bit more responsive at the top of the gas pedal; less dry-feeling perhaps (tough to describe if that wasn't apparent already). During the process, the tuner repeatedly expressed concern that the original logs (APR stage II) did not enrich the mixture at all and that would account for the knock he logged during pre-flash dyno tests (which he forcibly put a stop to after just two runs... yes, yes, I know this might be perceived as his putting down the competition but that's not the impression I left with... plus I'd already paid). The end-result is a very different drive: shifts are different (some better, some not); cold start + idle is NOT good--it feels like it falls repeatedly into stall recovery but that stops once warmed up... the tuner acknowledged this and is working on it. Performance-wise, there are times where she pulls so hard that I'd *swear* it's substantially more than even APR stage II... hardly objective data, though. Most of the time, it's tough to distinguish from a purely power perspective.

During the process of dyno'ing + tweaking, we (twice I think) put down substantially more than 800 ft Ibs of torque to the wheels (I forget the relative hp during those runs since he was dyno'ing frequently and somewhat back to back) but he yet again detected knock and dialed it back in. The end-result (knock-free) was 627 hp and 735 ft Ibs to the wheels in 4th gear (this is significant relative to the other runs I did with Andre since they're all in 4th gear and only the 5th gear run matched these numbers) on 92 octane pump-gas (no selectable files here)... but it's on a Mustang dyno so I'm really not sure what to make of it. For those that read this and think, "well, why not book the car back in on the dyno you used with Andre" to more closely compare like-to-like, that's already underway.

I'll create a new post when I've got something more to add... honest [up]

Do you have a vbox by chance? Curious what your numbers are for the different speed metrics.

[OlyS6]

Thanks on the looks front! I love it.

I've yet to post a comparison because I feel I lack sufficient useful data to do so... but I'll answer the question as best I can since you've brought it up [:D]. When I chose to step outside the norm and replace the APR tune, it wasn't because I don't like the APR product--quite the opposite in fact. I did it almost exclusively because the local tuner claimed (and backed up his claim) that he could raise the rpm-limiter (a SIGNIFICANT gripe of mine since day one)... plus it was exciting... and intriguing... which is I guess where the DP mod failed to motivate me. Anyhoo, my rpm-limiter is now confirmed at 7,000rpm and I'm still mulling over whether to increase it to 7,200rpm but it's on the table.

That said, we spent roughly 7-hours dyno'ing, testing, tweaking--rinse and repeat. One of the outcomes relative to the APR tune was the need to enrich the air:fuel ratio... and I can feel the end-result in daily driving, it's a bit more responsive at the top of the gas pedal; less dry-feeling perhaps (tough to describe if that wasn't apparent already). During the process, the tuner repeatedly expressed concern that the original logs (APR stage II) did not enrich the mixture at all and that would account for the knock he logged during pre-flash dyno tests (which he forcibly put a stop to after just two runs... yes, yes, I know this might be perceived as his putting down the competition but that's not the impression I left with... plus I'd already paid). The end-result is a very different drive: shifts are different (some better, some not); cold start + idle is NOT good--it feels like it falls repeatedly into stall recovery but that stops once warmed up... the tuner acknowledged this and is working on it. Performance-wise, there are times where she pulls so hard that I'd *swear* it's substantially more than even APR stage II... hardly objective data, though. Most of the time, it's tough to distinguish from a purely power perspective.

During the process of dyno'ing + tweaking, we (twice I think) put down substantially more than 800 ft Ibs of torque to the wheels (I forget the relative hp during those runs since he was dyno'ing frequently and somewhat back to back) but he yet again detected knock and dialed it back in. The end-result (knock-free) was 627 hp and 735 ft Ibs to the wheels in 4th gear (this is significant relative to the other runs I did with Andre since they're all in 4th gear and only the 5th gear run matched these numbers) on 92 octane pump-gas (no selectable files here)... but it's on a Mustang dyno so I'm really not sure what to make of it. For those that read this and think, "well, why not book the car back in on the dyno you used with Andre" to more closely compare like-to-like, that's already underway.

I'll create a new post when I've got something more to add... honest [up]

Nice! Would love to see some more runs on your car. I'm waiting to re-dyno my car until if/when there's an update of the APR Stage 3 tune, but we're about to put some RS turbos and get Stage 3 put on another S6 (16AudiS6's) in another week or 2. Also, I know jsilas wants to dyno his car as well. If you haven't booked it yet, maybe we can coordinate a Drift Office dyno day.

[limeypride]

Do you have a vbox by chance? Curious what your numbers are for the different speed metrics.

I did have a Vbox, then I sold it. Now I have a similar device with a stupid name I shall not mention here.

Sadly, the weather is not suitable for getting any numbers--it's 30 or below everyday so pointless until it warms up. My tires literally make it feel like I'm driving with rocks wrapped my wheels.

[kpriv]

Thanks on the looks front! I love it.

That said, we spent roughly 7-hours dyno'ing, testing, tweaking--rinse and repeat. One of the outcomes relative to the APR tune was the need to enrich the air:fuel ratio... and I can feel the end-result in daily driving, it's a bit more responsive at the top of the gas pedal; less dry-feeling perhaps (tough to describe if that wasn't apparent already). During the process, the tuner repeatedly expressed concern that the original logs (APR stage II) did not enrich the mixture at all and that would account for the knock he logged during pre-flash dyno tests (which he forcibly put a stop to after just two runs... yes, yes, I know this might be perceived as his putting down the competition but that's not the impression I left with... plus I'd already paid). The end-result is a very different drive: shifts are different (some better, some not); cold start + idle is NOT good--it feels like it falls repeatedly into stall recovery but that stops once warmed up... the tuner acknowledged this and is working on it. Performance-wise, there are times where she pulls so hard that I'd *swear* it's substantially more than even APR stage II... hardly objective data, though. Most of the time, it's tough to distinguish from a purely power perspective.


I don't want to derail your thread but I am very intrigued by your comment about the APR tune running lean and misfires. There are other threads on this topic which got me started checking my misfire history and logging normal commuter daily driving in traffic. A few things worth noting:

1) Someone smarter about these things please correct me if this is a misstatement, but from my research, misfires are almost always caused by either fuel or fire (and if it goes on long enough you can have other items that start to indirectly mess with the spark or fuel injection). Lots of people changing/moving plugs, coils, etc. and it does not seem this issue is related to spark plugs.

2) For folks that have checked their misfire count since their last tune, it appears a small steady number of misfires on all cylinders is common. For a lucky subset, increased misfire counts on cylinders 3 and 5 are not abnormal.

3) My car is accumulating misfires on cylinder #5 at a higher rate than my others. I have never had a flashing CEL. I have never once 'felt' the car misfiring, poor performance, etc. The only way I know this is by checking with vcds. To get a better feel for what was going on, I drove my 45 min commute home the other day logging nearly the entire time. It was very interesting to see intermittent misfires pop up, almost all of them in minimal load situations (~2k rpm).

4) I also noticed that lambda in low RPM situations is much higher than WOT (I believe this is typical). However, at WOT I have never once logged a misfire, and my lambda is consistently in the 0.80 range.

With this background and the comment from limey's tuner, is it possible that the APR tune is striving for such great fuel efficiency (highlighted as part of their marketing that you increase fuel economy when cruising) that things are running a touch leaner than they should? This is pure speculation at this point, but interesting nonetheless. Maybe the random intermittent misfires are no problem (so long as you dont get higher than normal count on one cylinder), but I would love to better understand the dynamics in play.

[brad65ford]

I did have a Vbox, then I sold it. Now I have a similar device with a stupid name I shall not mention here.

Sadly, the weather is not suitable for getting any numbers--it's 30 or below everyday so pointless until it warms up. My tires literally make it feel like I'm driving with rocks wrapped my wheels.

hum i'm wondering lol. I just ordered a dragy, looks pretty cool an neat that it has a community sharing. Some good times with the RS7 posted there too.

[IowaRS7]

I don't want to derail your thread but I am very intrigued by your comment about the APR tune running lean and misfires. There are other threads on this topic which got me started checking my misfire history and logging normal commuter daily driving in traffic. A few things worth noting:

1) Someone smarter about these things please correct me if this is a misstatement, but from my research, misfires are almost always caused by either fuel or fire (and if it goes on long enough you can have other items that start to indirectly mess with the spark or fuel injection). Lots of people changing/moving plugs, coils, etc. and it does not seem this issue is related to spark plugs.

2) For folks that have checked their misfire count since their last tune, it appears a small steady number of misfires on all cylinders is common. For a lucky subset, increased misfire counts on cylinders 3 and 5 are not abnormal.

3) My car is accumulating misfires on cylinder #5 at a higher rate than my others. I have never had a flashing CEL. I have never once 'felt' the car misfiring, poor performance, etc. The only way I know this is by checking with vcds. To get a better feel for what was going on, I drove my 45 min commute home the other day logging nearly the entire time. It was very interesting to see intermittent misfires pop up, almost all of them in minimal load situations (~2k rpm).

4) I also noticed that lambda in low RPM situations is much higher than WOT (I believe this is typical). However, at WOT I have never once logged a misfire, and my lambda is consistently in the 0.80 range.

With this background and the comment from limey's tuner, is it possible that the APR tune is striving for such great fuel efficiency (highlighted as part of their marketing that you increase fuel economy when cruising) that things are running a touch leaner than they should? This is pure speculation at this point, but interesting nonetheless. Maybe the random intermittent misfires are no problem (so long as you dont get higher than normal count on one cylinder), but I would love to better understand the dynamics in play.

I too find this interesting, but guys without tunes are having misfires as well. Also, Dyno tuning typically happens during open loop or WOT, so wondering if this tuner is seeing this during WOT on Limey's car vs normal driving conditions or closed loop (O2 sensor ECU derived adjustments). This is why I think some of these misfire issues are likely linked back to the OEM ECU file as I imagine APR does some modification to the closed loop programming, but likely not a total re-write, whereas the open loop programming is probably a complete re-write. I could be wrong, and maybe someone from APR can clarify, but I think this is a common OTS tuning approach.

[kpriv]

I too find this interesting, but guys without tunes are having misfires as well. Also, Dyno tuning typically happens during open loop or WOT, so wondering if this tuner is seeing this during WOT on Limey's car vs normal driving conditions or closed loop (O2 sensor ECU derived adjustments). This is why I think some of these misfire issues are likely linked back to the OEM ECU file as I imagine APR does some modification to the closed loop programming, but likely not a total re-write, whereas the open loop programming is probably a complete re-write. I could be wrong, and maybe someone from APR can clarify, but I think this is a common OTS tuning approach.

Good point. My post was more harsh on APR than I intended. At WOT, everything performs flawlessly and as you noted, I'm sure that's where nearly all of their attention is focused.

I agree it is a general software issue as well (ie, maybe audi wanting good mpg numbers and determining that intermittent misfires in minimal load situations were acceptable relative to warranty thresholds). The member who posted his stats on this topic and the new thread a week or two ago was not tuned if I recall correctly.

[Rez90]

Very nice. How is the ride with the lowering springs?

[Ze_Nardo6]

I don't want to derail your thread but I am very intrigued by your comment about the APR tune running lean and misfires. There are other threads on this topic which got me started checking my misfire history and logging normal commuter daily driving in traffic. A few things worth noting:

1) Someone smarter about these things please correct me if this is a misstatement, but from my research, misfires are almost always caused by either fuel or fire (and if it goes on long enough you can have other items that start to indirectly mess with the spark or fuel injection). Lots of people changing/moving plugs, coils, etc. and it does not seem this issue is related to spark plugs.

2) For folks that have checked their misfire count since their last tune, it appears a small steady number of misfires on all cylinders is common. For a lucky subset, increased misfire counts on cylinders 3 and 5 are not abnormal.

3) My car is accumulating misfires on cylinder #5 at a higher rate than my others. I have never had a flashing CEL. I have never once 'felt' the car misfiring, poor performance, etc. The only way I know this is by checking with vcds. To get a better feel for what was going on, I drove my 45 min commute home the other day logging nearly the entire time. It was very interesting to see intermittent misfires pop up, almost all of them in minimal load situations (~2k rpm).

4) I also noticed that lambda in low RPM situations is much higher than WOT (I believe this is typical). However, at WOT I have never once logged a misfire, and my lambda is consistently in the 0.80 range.

With this background and the comment from limey's tuner, is it possible that the APR tune is striving for such great fuel efficiency (highlighted as part of their marketing that you increase fuel economy when cruising) that things are running a touch leaner than they should? This is pure speculation at this point, but interesting nonetheless. Maybe the random intermittent misfires are no problem (so long as you dont get higher than normal count on one cylinder), but I would love to better understand the dynamics in play.

It may serve you, and your car, better to stay WOT at all time Kyle [drive]

[RSLRS71]

good stuff, thank you for sharing.

[limeypride]

Very nice. How is the ride with the lowering springs?

It's still compliant in Comfort mode. In Dynamic, you can feel the paint on the road surface. Honestly, you know it's there but it's worth any negligible loss in driving comfort--my wife didn't even notice.

[Rez90]

It's still compliant in Comfort mode. In Dynamic, you can feel the paint on the road surface. Honestly, you know it's there but it's worth any negligible loss in driving comfort--my wife didn't even notice.

Good info. Thanks.

[RSLRS71]

I don't want to derail your thread but I am very intrigued by your comment about the APR tune running lean and misfires. There are other threads on this topic which got me started checking my misfire history and logging normal commuter daily driving in traffic. A few things worth noting:

1) Someone smarter about these things please correct me if this is a misstatement, but from my research, misfires are almost always caused by either fuel or fire (and if it goes on long enough you can have other items that start to indirectly mess with the spark or fuel injection). Lots of people changing/moving plugs, coils, etc. and it does not seem this issue is related to spark plugs.

2) For folks that have checked their misfire count since their last tune, it appears a small steady number of misfires on all cylinders is common. For a lucky subset, increased misfire counts on cylinders 3 and 5 are not abnormal.

3) My car is accumulating misfires on cylinder #5 at a higher rate than my others. I have never had a flashing CEL. I have never once 'felt' the car misfiring, poor performance, etc. The only way I know this is by checking with vcds. To get a better feel for what was going on, I drove my 45 min commute home the other day logging nearly the entire time. It was very interesting to see intermittent misfires pop up, almost all of them in minimal load situations (~2k rpm).

4) I also noticed that lambda in low RPM situations is much higher than WOT (I believe this is typical). However, at WOT I have never once logged a misfire, and my lambda is consistently in the 0.80 range.

With this background and the comment from limey's tuner, is it possible that the APR tune is striving for such great fuel efficiency (highlighted as part of their marketing that you increase fuel economy when cruising) that things are running a touch leaner than they should? This is pure speculation at this point, but interesting nonetheless. Maybe the random intermittent misfires are no problem (so long as you dont get higher than normal count on one cylinder), but I would love to better understand the dynamics in play.

this also has me thinking...being at higher elevation and being able to run more lean....maybe the tuning is optimal for elevation? lol also probably has something to do with the gas mileage increase once tuned....