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Davdraco1
11-07-2017, 06:13 PM
Whatís up guys. I resently picked up the 034 FMIC for our cars. I know itís a bit big for my car, still on stock ko3s with a tune. Iím wondering if itís over kill or if itís even worth using. Plans for the car are obviously a larger turbo, i think we all have that plan, but i donít know when. What do you think?

HumbleTurbo
11-08-2017, 01:28 PM
Overkill is under-rated these days

M-Hood
11-09-2017, 06:58 AM
Don't install it till you are running a turbo big enough to use it.

Davdraco1
11-09-2017, 07:52 AM
Don't install it till you are running a turbo big enough to use it.

What would happen if i did? I know about pressure loss because of increased area. But this should be negligible. What down side would installing it do?

MetalMan
11-09-2017, 07:57 AM
You'll experience additional lag. Your turbo effectively will have a larger volume to fill.

Davdraco1
11-09-2017, 07:59 AM
But would the fact that the intercooler flows a lot better and isnít as restrictive as stock counter act that?

Rodgman15
11-09-2017, 08:06 AM
When I put my Treadstone 3" core on my K03 it took ALL the fun out of the car, lost a ton of spool, which in turn limited the powerband for that baby turbo. Honestly, stick with the side mount until you get your other turbo, my $.02

Joe Jr.
11-09-2017, 09:28 AM
i've been wondering about this...good thread. I"m sold on the Apikol smic for the k03 and the k04, but the dang thing is $550. I keep looking for another alternative but there just aren't any at a better price.

Davdraco1
11-09-2017, 09:33 AM
Iíve looked at the Apikol but i cant justify the money for the benifits. You can do custom FMIC for cheaper then what they go for. But for a bolt on part itís a no brainer.

Avant Nate
11-09-2017, 07:41 PM
Considering its the start of winter, I wouldn't worry too much about running a bigger intercooler.

Davdraco1
11-10-2017, 03:47 AM
Considering its the start of winter, I wouldn't worry too much about running a bigger intercooler.

Very true. I guess the question now is do i hold onto it or sell it? I wonít be getting a larger turbo for a while.

nynoah
11-10-2017, 02:25 PM
I have my old CXracing FMIC core. I can sell that for a good deal and you can just switch out the cores between the two. The 034 core is just a larger garret core. I upgraded mine to a garret so I know for a fact that they are interchangeable no matter what the piping is.

I am not using it so 40 plus shipping and its yours.

Looks exactly like this. https://s1.promotionsupplies.com/ebay/just-intercoolers/images/intercooler_kit/KIT-A4-B5-8.jpg

Joe Jr.
11-10-2017, 02:52 PM
heck of deal for someone!

Davdraco1
11-10-2017, 03:31 PM
Pmíd

M-Hood
11-15-2017, 03:12 PM
i've been wondering about this...good thread. I"m sold on the Apikol smic for the k03 and the k04, but the dang thing is $550. I keep looking for another alternative but there just aren't any at a better price.

Well it is a pretty thick Garrett core so the price reflects that.

Joe Jr.
11-16-2017, 08:15 AM
Well it is a pretty thick Garrett core so the price reflects that.

yes, i'm finding that good parts are worth the money. I've pretty much decided on the Apikol, just saving my pennies now. Hoping to drive over to Apikol and buy it in person, they are only 20 miles away from me.

nunya
11-16-2017, 11:56 AM
034 angles the inlet and outlet back a bit so there is less hacking. I had a stock garret core (the same they use) and gave it to them to modify to fit their piping. They also put on a longer inlet on the passenger side.
https://i.imgur.com/nJwWUuD.jpg

Davdraco1
11-16-2017, 12:26 PM
I like the brackets you have. Also, how much of the bumper did you have to cut up? I know Iíll be cutting the bumper support.

nunya
11-16-2017, 02:35 PM
I like the brackets you have. Also, how much of the bumper did you have to cut up? I know Iíll be cutting the bumper support.

A good bit, but like the other folks said it will do nothing for you, except make your car slower with a k03. If youre just doing it for looks buy a crappy ebay core.

--dillon

Davdraco1
11-16-2017, 02:41 PM
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Re: 034 Motorsport - B5 A4 1.8T FMIC Kit Group Buy - $795
Quote Originally Posted by nytoy View Post
What is the pressure drop on these? I'm wondering if the piping is too big for a simple K04 setup...
Since the core we used flows extremely well, and we minimized the length of the charge piping, there is no significant pressure drop.

On Javad's car, we saw <1 PSI drop across our FMIC. Pressure at the MAP sensor was actually increased over the stock SMIC.

Pressure drop is relatively difficult to summarize accurately. It's made out to be some terrible thing, but in reality, every intercooler setup will have pressure drop.

If you want zero pressure drop, remove your intercooler and put a straight pipe in its place. You will see no drop in pressure, but I can guarantee that you will make less power.

There's no way to increase core size, and cooling of the charge air without encountering some drop in pressure across the core.

With the stock intercooler, you are moving warmer, higher pressure air, but are flowing far less of it. Due to its flow restriction, you will make less power, and seee a fair amount of pressure drop across the core. As you increase boost and/or the size of your turbo, that pressure drop will increase, since the stock core becomes a flow restriction.

With an efficient FMIC core, the air will be cooler and denser, and flow will be greater than with a stock intercooler, even at lower pressures. As you increase boost and/or the size of your turbo, that pressure drop will remain almost constant, as the setup flows much better than stock.

The main goal of our FMIC is to provide as dense and cool charge air as possible, while greatly increasing flow over the stock unit. In short, even on a smaller turbo like the K04, the benefits will be there:

- Greater flow over stock SMIC and piping
- Smaller ΔT (increase in intake air temperature throughout pulls)
- Consistently lower IATs with heat soak virtually eliminated


Found this from an old thread. I'm leaning towards installing it. I don't think it will negatively affect performance at all with whats stated in 034's post.

MetalMan
11-16-2017, 02:50 PM
Your car, do what you want with it.
It will definitely experience slower spool and cause the turbo to work harder due to the need to fill a larger volume, though.

Davdraco1
11-16-2017, 02:52 PM
how would you read the info from 034? I agree it will cause a bit of lag but these turbos like to spike anyways which isn't good so i'm not to worried about the resulting slight lag.

MetalMan
11-16-2017, 03:19 PM
Basically all that is referring to is pressure drop and cooling capability. It has lower pressure drop at high flow and better cooling compared to a stock SMIC. But it also has greater volume.

Think about filling a balloon with air: your mouth is a K03, a stock SMIC is a water balloon, and the 034 FMIC is a regular balloon. Which balloon can you fill faster? Eventually both balloons will reach the same internal pressure but you're going to fill the water balloon in a much shorter duration, and spend a lot loss energy filling it.

Davdraco1
11-16-2017, 03:23 PM
I completely undertand the larger volume. I just canít imagine it will be that bad.

MetalMan
11-16-2017, 04:14 PM
You'll have to tell us how it works out.

Davdraco1
11-16-2017, 05:03 PM
I️ might be going in tomorrow.

Joe Jr.
11-17-2017, 08:24 AM
Basically all that is referring to is pressure drop and cooling capability. It has lower pressure drop at high flow and better cooling compared to a stock SMIC. But it also has greater volume.

Think about filling a balloon with air: your mouth is a K03, a stock SMIC is a water balloon, and the 034 FMIC is a regular balloon. Which balloon can you fill faster? Eventually both balloons will reach the same internal pressure but you're going to fill the water balloon in a much shorter duration, and spend a lot loss energy filling it.

this makes sense to me. Seems like every time you're on and off the pedal you're having to fill that air gap again. I would think that when you're into the pedal and its constant pressure from the turbo to higher rpms its all good but around town all the on and then off again you'd lose lots of repsonsiveness with too big of an intercooler.

Seems to me that the water/meth is a good solution in the end because its always cooling the intake air and an intercooler no matter the size will eventually heat soak. I dunno, are there cons to the water/meth set ups? I've not done that yet.

yes as always, its relative to how the car is being used and how things could/should be set up.

Joe Jr.
11-17-2017, 08:27 AM
I completely undertand the larger volume. I just canít imagine it will be that bad.

that's not what rodman above said. I've read others saying the same, it would be interesting to hear what you do.

Rodgman15
11-17-2017, 08:30 AM
that's not what rodman above said. I've read others saying the same, it would be interesting to hear what you do.

It is that bad.

But look at it this way...

If eventually you're going bigger turbo, this is just another step out of the way!

Davdraco1
11-17-2017, 10:12 AM
It is that bad.

But look at it this way...

If eventually you're going bigger turbo, this is just another step out of the way!

Thatís what Iím thinking.

Rodgman15
11-18-2017, 06:01 AM
And I should elaborate a bit...

I went from the stock side mount, to a Treadstone TR10, which is pretty damn big intercooler for the baby k03 to fill.

Davdraco1
11-18-2017, 06:57 AM
The 034 FMIC is 567 in3 and the one Rodgeman used is 882 in3. The 034 is 67% of what he used. Iím hoping itís not as bad as his experience was with regard lbs to the tiny turbo filing it up.

vrmm
11-18-2017, 07:17 AM
I had a fmic on my k03 for about 10 minutes(total driving time) and hated it. Put the smic right back on and all was well. Took me all morning to ghetto up random bent piping and I was super stoked to finally do it but yeahhhh no. Buy a meth kit now crank timing, then come bigger turbo get an intercooler ;).

It was a tiny ebay core too. like 1/4th a treadstone (tr6 is it? been a while). It's pointless imo.

Ohh and if it were me i'd think to myself "ohh hell no" to 034. unless it's used. You'll end up with a washer fluid bottle in the fmic box or your tax refund spent on 3 radiator bolts.

Davdraco1
11-18-2017, 07:37 AM
It was used. They donít make the kit anymore, I think there are still a few new ones available from different distributor. And, Iíve ordered a decent amount of stuff from them over the years and never had an issue with them. They also helped me out a few times on pricing. I must be the lucky one I guess. And what do you mean by crank timing?

Rodgman15
11-18-2017, 08:47 AM
Spray meth to help prevent detonation and advance the shit of of the timing. That's where the POWAAAH is.

vrmm
11-21-2017, 03:07 PM
Theres a German repair/tuning shop owner where I live and he and I spent 20 or 30 minutes going through all the wrong crap we've got. His troubles were far more... difficult than mine. His were coupled with really crappy customer service and him getting screwed over, while all I have to do it ghetto adapt within reason. I'm sure there's good and bad sides to them for sure. I've only seen the bad though. Stainless brake lines inches too short, wrong lower control arms joint 'cone angles'(for alum uprightsinstead), my stainless downpipe, a different set of control arms wrong.... Just keeps going.

I spent like 600$ getting my whole meth kit running. Piece by piece didn't save me a damn dime. Took a few extra actually. I installed it so stuff would stop melting with my hx35 on, not for more power, but in theory yes it would make a larger difference in my opinion. iat's will be somewhat lower from the meth coming in but not as much as an ic of I'm not mistaken. It more so makes iat's not matter as much with your egts dropping. At least they should. Mine did 400-600f. Wot 1st all the way through 4th up top is where you'd see it.

The point of your front mount is to lower iats for the purpose of reducing timing retard /predet & knock. Meth does that times a few. Idk... Maybe I've got it all wrong. It's not expensive to refill. I used home depot denatured alcohol and distilled water. Okay I lied.. It was tap :) but I also would do just straight - 20 washer fluid. iirc I got a 4 gallon? Tank. It was way bigger than need be. It would last weeks and weeks with me always flooring it. [up]

Joe Jr.
11-22-2017, 04:13 PM
I've been reading about meth kits lately. It would be fun to delete the smic and run a direct tube to the intake from the turbo and have the meth kit running. Talk about better throttle response (in theory).

M-Hood
11-24-2017, 02:22 PM
I've been reading about meth kits lately. It would be fun to delete the smic and run a direct tube to the intake from the turbo and have the meth kit running. Talk about better throttle response (in theory).

Even people that run direct injection meth still end up running a FMIC, so do those that run E85. They don't lower IAT that much and even less so with less time to draw that heat out of the charge air. Don't confuse lower cylinder temps and intake air temps. The air coming out of your turbo is pretty hot and the FMIC just gets it down closer to the outside air temps.

Joe Jr.
11-25-2017, 08:50 PM
I'm not claiming to be an expert, but if the water meth injection cools the combustion air before it's combusted isn't that really what the intercooler is trying to do also?

Davdraco1
11-25-2017, 09:09 PM
Yes but one is much more efficient then the other.

M-Hood
12-11-2017, 09:56 AM
I'm not claiming to be an expert, but if the water meth injection cools the combustion air before it's combusted isn't that really what the intercooler is trying to do also?

Yes but if the intercooler is too small then you end up with a air flow restriction and the FMIC becomes heat soaked not doing its job, using water/meth in that situation is just a bandaid to try and control IAT's that would be climbing because the FMIC is heat soaked. You still need to run the right size core even when running a water/meth injection setup.

Joe Jr.
08-08-2018, 09:45 AM
Just went back and re read this.Appreciate Mike's replies, seeing all that he's done with his car and how it runs. I've been experiencing heat soak with my stock intercooler this summer. I noticed running e85 its not as drastic but its still noticeable. Need to invest in an intercooler.

Cybersombosis
08-08-2018, 12:34 PM
I must say that it is nice to have that cold weather power in the heat of the summer after adding a water/meth kit and intercooler upgrade and the car tuned for it. I remember the hot days where I thought something was wrong with the car and all it was was the hot air temps outside and intercooler heat soak.

Doug