Anyone considering jumping ship to the new M5?

[VVG]

Now that it will be coming with an M calibrated X-drive, it will actually be able to put the power down. And BMW's steering and stock suspension calibration has always been better than Audi IMO.

For those of you fluent in German, the german configurator is already up and running:

https://www.bmw.be/vc/ncc/xhtml/start/startWithConfigUrl.faces?country=BE&market=BELU&productType=1&brand=BM&locale=nl_BE&name=v7u7v9q7#OPTIONS

Thoughts?

[DeanoC]

I'm with ya. Had my price list through and very excited to try one. Coming in about 10k more than an RS4 for a lot more car (in the UK)

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[lnferno]

Nope

[CanuckRS]

Don't think so. Besides the power train upgrades it's about as interesting to look at as a bowl of porridge.

[RSLRS71]

Never, but I did see this one the other day and have to admit it looked pretty good...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170926/7a58ec6b08f48b44a456adf8144e21c1.jpg


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[VeryBadman]

I’m thinking. If price is right I can see myself in the next M5.

[wwhan]

Nope

Nope^2

[flyfishing]

not the newest m5, but i had an e60 v10 m5 before. that thing was a beast and a blast to drive. but the most unreliable car that i have ever owned.

[VVG]

Nope

Explain. Seriously, please give some reasoning. "Nope" isn't helpful in terms of sharing thoughts.

[lnferno]

Explain. Seriously, please give some reasoning. "Nope" isn't helpful in terms of sharing thoughts.

I've been into cars for a really long time (a few decades now, heh). My father had one and I've had a lot of friends/acquaintances that have had them. I have never met anyone, personally, that had anything good to say about BMW. Every person that I've talked to says the same thing - how bad they are in terms of reliability. On top of that, I'm not a huge fan of the styling.

If I were to consider anything other than Audi, it would be the new MB E63S.

[CanuckRS]

Never, but I did see this one the other day and have to admit it looked pretty good...
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I can't put my finger on it but the design just doesn't appeal to me at all. Bleh comes to mind.
http://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1414257
http://bimmerpost.imgix.net/goodiesforyou/m/m5/f90/release/m5firstedition/P90273025_highRes.jpg

[lnferno]

I can't put my finger on it but the design just doesn't appeal to me at all. Bleh comes to mind.


Yah,, the design just isn't as "streamlined" as Audi.

[mdloops]

Number 1, Mercedes has to be the most unreliable of all German brands. I have owned a BMW and it’s a good car. Your assessment is fairly biased. In general, BMWs handle better than their comparable Audi’s because they put a hell of a lot more focus into it. BMW multi-contour sears are very good as well. Reliability isn’t as good as Audi, but if you lease this is irrelevant.

I switched to my S6 because I needed more space and loved the design of the 4.0TT + Dual Clutch + AWD and was willing to give up some HPs for refinement compared with the outgoing M5.

Now hat the new M5 has AWD, different ballgame.


I've been into cars for a really long time (a few decades now, heh). My father had one and I've had a lot of friends/acquaintances that have had them. I have never met anyone, personally, that had anything good to say about BMW. Every person that I've talked to says the same thing - how bad they are in terms of reliability. On top of that, I'm not a huge fan of the styling.

If I were to consider anything other than Audi, it would be the new MB E63S.

[name.goes.here]

Nope^2

X3

[lnferno]

Number 1, Mercedes has to be the most unreliable of all German brands. I have owned a BMW and it’s a good car. Your assessment is fairly biased. In general, BMWs handle better than their comparable Audi’s because they put a hell of a lot more focus into it. BMW multi-contour sears are very good as well. Reliability isn’t as good as Audi, but if you lease this is irrelevant.

I switched to my S6 because I needed more space and loved the design of the 4.0TT + Dual Clutch + AWD and was willing to give up some HPs for refinement compared with the outgoing M5.

Now hat the new M5 has AWD, different ballgame.

To each their own. If everyone had the exact same taste in cars, this would be an awfully boring world.

[cobrario]

but if you lease this is irrelevant.


If you lease it's all irrelevant in my opinion, you're not committing to anything so get whatever the flavor of the month is, doesn't matter? get it, hate it, trade it, swap it, drive it, don't drive it, mod it, don't mod it, who cares because it's not your car- and FWIW, I lease cars for my business, so I'm not against leasing, I just don't care about the cars I lease- again, just me- as for the new M5, no matter what drivetrain it has now, it's just not my thing, I'm an Audi guy, it is what it is.

[CanuckRS]

If you lease it's all irrelevant in my opinion, you're not committing to anything so get whatever the flavor of the month is, doesn't matter? get it, hate it, trade it, swap it, drive it, don't drive it, mod it, don't mod it, who cares because it's not your car.

Not sure i understand that comment. why would you lease if you hate the looks and don't drive it? In that case don't get it because you're paying for something you hate, and don't drive!

And you have committed, you committed to X years of lease payments! lol.

[cobrario]

Not sure i understand that comment. why would you lease if you hate the looks and don't drive it, in that case don't get it because you're paying for it!

Leasing for me is just a tool to get a car I need not one I want, it's just a different mindset to me, that's all.

[S6Express]

I can't put my finger on it but the design just doesn't appeal to me at all. Bleh comes to mind.
http://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1414257
http://bimmerpost.imgix.net/goodiesforyou/m/m5/f90/release/m5firstedition/P90273025_highRes.jpg

Man, if that's bleh, I don't know what my S6 is....ultra boring? That M5 looks a lot meaner than my S6. Just being honest, maybe I should be comparing it to an RS7.

[mcouch70]

Besides the new headlight design there is nothing over the top appealing about anything coming from BMW including the next gen M5. Can't stand the side profile or rear end look of any of the new BMW's.

[wwhan]

Man, if that's bleh, I don't know what my S6 is....ultra boring? That M5 looks a lot meaner than my S6. Just being honest, maybe I should be comparing it to an RS7.

Some people like Ethan Allen furniture design (http://www.ethanallen.com/en_US/shop-furniture-dining-room), some like modern furniture design (http://www.dwr.com/dining-room-collections?lang=en_US). To some, Ethan Allen furniture is boring.

Different tastes for different people, it's good to have a choice.

The Audi follows the simple modern design format. See Bauhaus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauhaus)

[WhiteWhiteS7]

Nope, because BMW.

[Chris Morales]

The lastest M cars have really turned me off from the brand. Aside from those models being so traction limited by not shifting to AWD years after their competitors have, the M3/M4 cars sound like hideous ricers. I see those cars as inferior...kind of the same way I see Mustangs. But an AWD, twin-turbo V8 powertrain is the correct formula. It will take a while for me to warm again but they may be getting back in the game. Audi is still way ahead in terms of AWD functionality.

[mcouch70]

The lastest M cars have really turned me off from the brand. Aside from those models being so traction limited by not shifting to AWD years after their competitors have, the M3/M4 cars sound like hideous ricers. I see those cars as inferior...kind of the same way I see Mustangs. But an AWD, twin-turbo V8 powertrain is the correct formula. It will take a while for me to warm again but they may be getting back in the game. Audi is still way ahead in terms of AWD functionality.

Couldn't agree more. We have a few newer M3/M4's that attend our local cars and coffee and you can't tell the difference between their sound and the Honda Civic's with fart cans. I cringe every time I hear either of them.

[doc-haz]

Slightly off topic but we started looking for a new SUV for the wife and upcoming baby. Since I have my nice cars, and after getting used to high power high dollar toys she wants an X5M. Also in the running a GLE63. The new Cayenne turbo looks good but I'm not crazy about the new console fingerprint magnet thing and it's a bit rich for me.

Anybody here with experience in big fast SUVs? We will start test driving things soon. Looking at kid summer delivery.

[mcouch70]

Slightly off topic but we started looking for a new SUV for the wife and upcoming baby. Since I have my nice cars, and after getting used to high power high dollar toys she wants an X5M. Also in the running a GLE63. The new Cayenne turbo looks good but I'm not crazy about the new console fingerprint magnet thing and it's a bit rich for me.

Anybody here with experience in big fast SUVs? We will start test driving things soon. Looking at kid summer delivery.

Those are all nice SUV's no doubt, really can't go wrong with any of them. We have a 2015 Supercharged Range Rover and it is absolutely fantastic! Besides the RS7 it is one of the most well rounded and beautifully made vehicles we have ever owned. The only thing we may trade it in for would be the new Range Rover Velar SVR when it comes out next year.

[A6sport]

Now that it will be coming with an M calibrated X-drive, it will actually be able to put the power down. And BMW's steering and stock suspension calibration has always been better than Audi IMO.

For those of you fluent in German, the german configurator is already up and running:

https://www.bmw.be/vc/ncc/xhtml/start/startWithConfigUrl.faces?country=BE&market=BELU&productType=1&brand=BM&locale=nl_BE&name=v7u7v9q7#OPTIONS

Thoughts?

No, probably never... I'm almost 57, only owned Audi cars since 1985... we did own a 1988 Renault Medallion, money was short ;-) I'm brand loyal, until they do something that pisses me off enough to go to MB or BMW in that order I'm a 4 ringer. Now, I have thought seriously about a Panamera, keep it in the family.

[VVG]

Leasing for me is just a tool to get a car I need not one I want, it's just a different mindset to me, that's all.

I am of the same mindset. Leasing to me is like I am borrowing someone else's car. It isn't mine. Just the way my head is wired, I suppose.

[Ze_Nardo6]

I am of the same mindset. Leasing to me is like I am borrowing someone else's car. It isn't mine. Just the way my head is wired, I suppose.

Same here. And that is why I buy my cars, among other reasons.

[chrisfast]

I've been into cars for a really long time (a few decades now, heh). My father had one and I've had a lot of friends/acquaintances that have had them. I have never met anyone, personally, that had anything good to say about BMW. Every person that I've talked to says the same thing - how bad they are in terms of reliability. On top of that, I'm not a huge fan of the styling.

If I were to consider anything other than Audi, it would be the new MB E63S.

That was the 3rd vehicle I was considering. In order, S6 (Just ordered, so there's your answer), Model S P100D, E63s. I have owned over 10 BMW's. Only a couple of them were even close to reliable. The rest just weren't. So, the M5 may have made it in my top 5, but it didn't come in my top 3.

[shoe3k]

I am of the same mindset. Leasing to me is like I am borrowing someone else's car. It isn't mine. Just the way my head is wired, I suppose.

You don't own your car when you finance it either. The bank does :).

[Safelder]

Slightly off topic but we started looking for a new SUV for the wife and upcoming baby. Since I have my nice cars, and after getting used to high power high dollar toys she wants an X5M. Also in the running a GLE63. The new Cayenne turbo looks good but I'm not crazy about the new console fingerprint magnet thing and it's a bit rich for me.

Anybody here with experience in big fast SUVs? We will start test driving things soon. Looking at kid summer delivery.

My wife drives the X5 50i. It’s damn near as fast as my RS5 was, and fairly nimble for its size. The X5M struck us as overkill for a kid hauler.

[Dluu12]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170928/7fc4f7e95d0ab02aed7abb5f94195b74.jpg
Just not that appealing to me. Might be dynamically great and fun to drive but looks dull. The new E63s looks better IMO. Or I'll just wait for the next gen RS7. I've owned 5 BMWs including a current E60 M5 (V10) that is a thrill to drive and has been surprising reliable having over 110k miles with occasional track use but I don't think I'll go back to BMW.


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[Ze_Nardo6]

You don't own your car when you finance it either. The bank does :).

I own more than the bank does [:D]

And it's not the same as leasing no matter how much you've financed. Analogous to a mortgage on your home.

[shoe3k]

I own more than the bank does. And it's not the same as leasing no matter how much you've financed. [:D]


People put a stigma on leases, but it's funny seeing so many people "finance" cars for 5-7 years but get rid of cars after 2-3 years and constantly roll negative equity into another car. It's better to lease if that the case unless you are doing crazy mileage that negates the mileage restriction. If you plan on keeping a car for the long term then financing is the way to go.



Analogous to a mortgage on your home.


You mentioned a mortgage but a person will have equity in a house. A person financing a car will have a depreciating asset on their hands, which in the end they will break even or be under. Putting down a large down payment on a car doesn't negate the depreciating factor of a car and a person is losing money either way.


Didn't want to derail the thread entirely, but the new M5 isn't bad and the interiors on the 5-series are great. I was looking at the new m550i before pulling the trigger on the S6.

[CanuckRS]

People put a stigma on leases, but it's funny seeing so many people "finance" cars for 5-7 years but get rid of cars after 2-3 years and constantly roll negative equity into another car. It's better to lease if that the case unless you are doing crazy mileage that negates the mileage restriction. If you plan on keeping a car for the long term then financing is the way to go.

It's interesting the mind games people play on themselves in regards to leasing vs financing. In the end all that matters is how much money you spend, the rest is just mental masturbation. It's just a vehicle, metal, plastic glass, nothing of any real importance imo compared to family etc.

Personally i lease because it's financially beneficial and leaves me with the option of handing it back or buying it out +/- selling it for some extra cash if there is some equity built up which there usually is for me.

[shoe3k]

It's interesting the mind games people play on themselves in regards to leasing vs financing. In the end all that matters is how much money you spend, the rest is just mental masturbation. It's just a vehicle, metal, plastic glass, nothing of any real importance imo compared to family etc.

Personally i lease because it's financially beneficial and leaves me with the option of handing it back or buying it out +/- selling it for some extra cash if there is some equity built up which there usually is for me.

I agree.

[Chris Morales]

... constantly roll negative equity into another car. It's better to lease if that the case ...

That's not necessarily true. As Canuck says, what matters is how much money you spend. Your cost for a car is always depreciation + interest (even if you pay all cash, since you could have invested the cash). If you choose a lease, you're locking in the depreciation number at the outset. It's a bet. The bet may pay off or it may not. With buying, you have unlimited downside but also the upside of potentially beating the depreciation estimate of a lease. Interest rates also vary between leasing/buying, and often you can deduct sales tax when buying but not when leasing.

[shoe3k]

That's not necessarily true. As Canuck says, what matters is how much money you spend. Your cost for a car is always depreciation + interest (even if you pay all cash, since you could have invested the cash). If you choose a lease, you're locking in the depreciation number at the outset. It's a bet. The bet may pay off or it may not. With buying, you have unlimited downside but also the upside of potentially beating the depreciation estimate of a lease. Interest rates also vary between leasing/buying, and often you can deduct sales tax when buying but not when leasing.

I under this and it is always about how much you paid in the end, but that wasn't my point. You are looking at it from a logical financial standpoint but others do not do this.

From personal experience, I used to see people take between $2,000-$5000 in negative equity, on average, into a loan on a new car and repeat this process constantly. These people were so under that they are essentially paying B9 S4 money for a current gen 4-door GTI. They are rolling negative equity because the life of the loan is still too early, the car is depreciating every year, and this cycle constantly repeats itself, which is burning money away. This type of person should really think about getting into a lease since they can walk away in the end and look for something new.

[VVG]

You don't own your car when you finance it either. The bank does :).

I only buy what I can afford to pay in cash. Unless I am deliberately keeping the cash to invest and have gotten a ridiculously low finance rate. But I always keep the funds to be able to buy out any time. If I can't do this, then I can't afford the car.

But I fully acknowledge that the buy/lease thing is in my head. Although I really don't think I would have or could have done some of my mods on a leased vehicle.

[doc-haz]

Those are all nice SUV's no doubt, really can't go wrong with any of them. We have a 2015 Supercharged Range Rover and it is absolutely fantastic! Besides the RS7 it is one of the most well rounded and beautifully made vehicles we have ever owned. The only thing we may trade it in for would be the new Range Rover Velar SVR when it comes out next year.

I will have her check out the RR, both the big and sport ones. The one thing I worry about is long term upkeep. That and their infotainment system seems to lag behind the rest of the market. I heard the Velar's system got the upgrades people have been crying for.


My wife drives the X5 50i. It’s damn near as fast as my RS5 was, and fairly nimble for its size. The X5M struck us as overkill for a kid hauler.

The 50i is a real nice vehicle. I drove one a couple of years ago. The thing is, you option that thing up, and you're within a $5k of an M car. It's tough but will drive both and see what deal we ca


That's not necessarily true. As Canuck says, what matters is how much money you spend. Your cost for a car is always depreciation + interest (even if you pay all cash, since you could have invested the cash). If you choose a lease, you're locking in the depreciation number at the outset. It's a bet. The bet may pay off or it may not. With buying, you have unlimited downside but also the upside of potentially beating the depreciation estimate of a lease. Interest rates also vary between leasing/buying, and often you can deduct sales tax when buying but not when leasing.

I'm 32 years old. Between myself and the wife we've owned and leased quite a few cars in the last 10 years. Both sides have pros and cons. If I had a business and would benefit from a lease write off I'd do it again. I just don't want to keep getting new cars every 2-3 years. With a kid on the way, I'd like to hold on to the cars we have as long as possible so I'd rather not lease again. Instead, pick a car I really like, and buy it with the biggest factory warranty I can get. My S7, I bought an Audi 8 year 100,000 miles warranty so if I can keep it that long I'd be happy. Ultimately there's no one right way to do it. We are all extremely fortunate to be able to afford incredible cars, and at the end of the day they are depreciating hunks of metal as Chris said. Enjoy them for what they are. [:)]

[cobrario]

My take on ownership: If you total a leased car and the insurance payout is more than the lease buyout, the lease company keeps the equity - same scenario on a financed vehicle, you keep it. Lease v Buy is often personal pref and based on how you feel about the car, for me, if I love the car I want to own it, not lease/borrow - the cash flow analysis of which works better for you will vary by user.

[VeryBadman]

Can we put a rest to lease vs buy/finance discussion and go back to the original topic?

I personally don’t hate how BMW looks and the latest iDrive operates better than the latest MMI IMHO. I’m very interested in what the M Division Chief Frank van Meel will bring to table for the new M specific X-Drive system in the new M5. I have high hope for it to be fantastic since he must know a thing or two about good AWD application.


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[shoe3k]

Can we put a rest to lease vs buy/finance discussion and go back to the original topic?

I personally don’t hate how BMW looks and the latest iDrive operates better than the latest MMI IMHO. I’m very interested in what the M Division Chief Frank van Meel will bring to table for the new M specific X-Drive system in the new M5. I have high hope for it to be fantastic since he must know a thing or two about good AWD application.


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I like that the front and rear bumpers look very different than the standard 5-series and the front air inlets look like they will swallow a pedestrian.

I don't mind that the M5 went AWD because I enjoy having traction and a lot of times I pass on cars that aren't AWD since I live MD, which has very unpredictable weather.

[mdloops]

Any reputable auto magazine worth their salt presents Audi aesthetic design as restrained compared to BMW. This is not subjective if you read what people in the auto design world have to say. Yes, this means Audi is possibly more boring (subjective), but that is what I like about them. Simplicity.


Some people like Ethan Allen furniture design (http://www.ethanallen.com/en_US/shop-furniture-dining-room), some like modern furniture design (http://www.dwr.com/dining-room-collections?lang=en_US). To some, Ethan Allen furniture is boring.

Different tastes for different people, it's good to have a choice.

The Audi follows the simple modern design format. See Bauhaus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauhaus)