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View Full Version : Low psi on GIAC



LateraLex
01-03-2006, 06:19 PM
What psi should I be expecting from a socketed GIAC chip. I don't know exactly which chip it is, but I am looking at it now and it is soldered on correctly. It's got a GIAC sticker on there.

My boost gauge is reading 20hg vac and 10-11 psi tops under WOT in 3rd. I ran a VAG yesterday and the boost requested never got above .7 bar. The actual boost was very close to requested.

I know some GIAC chips have a stock mode, but I thought they had to be manually switched. So could I have a low psi GIAC chip, or could something be off?

EVIL-AUDI
01-03-2006, 06:24 PM
If you have a socketed chip, than there is no stock mode. You either have the GIAC chip in or the stock.

LateraLex
01-03-2006, 06:25 PM
Ever heard of a GIAC chip running .7 bar?

Starting
01-03-2006, 06:26 PM
ndbw, dbw?

LateraLex
01-03-2006, 06:28 PM
DBW 01

Starting
01-03-2006, 06:40 PM
you might be on stock mode because you can flashload the chip on the 01.

AudiMat
01-03-2006, 07:06 PM
Like Evil said, there is no stock mode, its a socketed chip. The chip is soddered in the ECU and is not flashloaded from a computer program.

ianlionzion
01-03-2006, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by LateraLex
DBW 01

you probably have the x chip and are running in limp mode. did you have any codes?

LateraLex
01-03-2006, 07:35 PM
Ian - Im quite sure I'm not in limp. illbill (more of an AW) VAGed it for me. It wasn't throwing any codes and the boost requested/actual looked pretty normal for stock according to him. I though the GIAC-X was flash only too. [up]

BranCKY3
01-03-2006, 07:40 PM
Hmm... what N75 are you using?
Try to disconnect the negative cable from the battery for 20 mins, then reconnect.
If that doesn't work, it might be bad news. I had the exact same problems with my GIAC k03 chip, turned out that my wastegate was failing and would open early. That's why I have a k04 now.

Poopie
01-03-2006, 07:54 PM
too cold maybe?

TJHUB
01-03-2006, 08:06 PM
My guess is the same as BranCKY3. My car would only boost to about 12 psi and I could hear a jingling at 20 mph with a light throttle. My wastegate was shot with 78,000 miles. The wastegate was so worn, it couldn't fully close causing me to lose boost. That's why I too have a K04[:D]

LateraLex
01-03-2006, 09:01 PM
Bran - I'm on stock N75. I tried disc the battery and let the ECU recalibrate. Took it for a spin and hit 10 psi max.
Poopie - Yes its very cold. 24 F
TJ - How can I tell if my wastegate is open? I would have thought that boost requested vs. actual boost would have revealed that.

nramsey
01-03-2006, 09:32 PM
Humm, I have a GIAC x-chip that was flashloaded on my '01 ('CH' ECU) and peak around 17-20 PSI. When I switch it to stock program using GIAC's switcher utility and a VAG cable it runs at the stock 10-12 PSI. Are you SURE it's a soldered in chip?

One thing you could do if you have access to a VAG cable is log the boost requested vs actual values. I can't recall the exact memory blocks though. It will tell you what the ECU is requested as far as boost level and what you're actually getting. If they are very far apart, something's up.

<edit> Oops, I see you've already done the logging. I think something is up with your chip, or it's in stock mode. No way a chipped '01 should be requesting only 10-11 PSI in chipped mode. That's stock boost level for that year!

one8t
01-04-2006, 04:17 AM
Forget the boost levels, log MB 003 in 3rd gear and see what the maf readings shows. I'm guessing the low temps are just allowing you to run lower boost while still hitting target maf readings. If you see peak maf readings of 170 g/sec or so, you're fine.

EVIL-AUDI
01-04-2006, 04:39 AM
The X is not flash only. Perhpaps now that is how they do it, but it was available as just a chip before.

mike-2ptzero
01-04-2006, 10:15 AM
Might want to just post some pics of the chip in the ecu. Also where did you buy this and was it something you got new or did you just buy the chip/ecu used from someone?

IKE20VA4
01-04-2006, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by EVIL-AUDI
The X is not flash only. Perhpaps now that is how they do it, but it was available as just a chip before.

I was at a GIAC dealer a few weeks ago and they told me the X-chip is flashloaded only. At least for the 01's.

I just became chipped with GIAC also. Switching from APR. It is a lot smoother. Although I'm not seeing as much boost at all from it. Like in 5th gear at 65mph APR would show a solid 15psi all the way to 80mph. With GIAC I'm getting 14psi max going down to about 10psi at 80mph.

I don't know if I got a boost leak, but it was pretty much right after I switched to GIAC. The shop did say that they APR chip was soldered on pretty poorly and they had some problems getting the GIAC chip socket on right.

BranCKY3
01-04-2006, 11:36 AM
^ Maybe that's because of weather?

EVIL-AUDI
01-04-2006, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by 20VTURBOA4
I was at a GIAC dealer a few weeks ago and they told me the X-chip is flashloaded only. At least for the 01's.



Well that is not how it always was. I had an X chip in my car .

IKE20VA4
01-04-2006, 01:46 PM
hmm i see

AudiMat
01-04-2006, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by mike-2ptzero
Might want to just post some pics of the chip in the ecu. Also where did you buy this and was it something you got new or did you just buy the chip/ecu used from someone?

I bought the chip new and sat there and watched at the dealer as they pulled the ECU apart and sodered it onto the ECU. Yes I am sure the car is in fact chipped, and it is not in any other mode besides chipped because there is no other mode on this particular chip. Alex bought the car used from me. For the older X-chips, they are NOT only flashloaded because, again, like I said, I sat there and watched one saturday morning as they pulled apart my ECU and sodered a chip onto it, replacing the stock one that was there already. If it was a chip problem then there is a good chance that the car would not be running at all. When I first bought the chip I was having a problem with one of the soder points coming lose and the car not starting at all. This was fixed and I never had another problem with it right up to when the car sold. (over a year later.) I never had a boost gauge on the car so I never knew what PSI the car was putting out, but I could certainally feel the difference in the power of the car over stock.

I have talked to the dealer that installed the chip, and they confirm (as best they can over the phone and not seeing the car) that it is not a chip issue and if it was, then the car would not be starting or running at all. They said that the low PSI levels are not symptomatic of a chip problem, but more than likely a cold weather issue at best or something that has to do with the Turbo. Unfortionally this can not be confirmed without taking the car to them and having it checked out, possibly racking up a few hours of labor first without even starting to fix the problem. Unfortionally on a car with over 120k miles on the clock these problems can be frustrating and sometimes quite expensive to fix.

bitterchild
01-04-2006, 04:16 PM
GIAC is moving to flashloading everything dbw.

mike-2ptzero
01-04-2006, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by AudiMat
I bought the chip new and sat there and watched at the dealer as they pulled the ECU apart and sodered it onto the ECU. Yes I am sure the car is in fact chipped, and it is not in any other mode besides chipped because there is no other mode on this particular chip. Alex bought the car used from me. For the older X-chips, they are NOT only flashloaded because, again, like I said, I sat there and watched one saturday morning as they pulled apart my ECU and sodered a chip onto it, replacing the stock one that was there already. If it was a chip problem then there is a good chance that the car would not be running at all. When I first bought the chip I was having a problem with one of the soder points coming lose and the car not starting at all. This was fixed and I never had another problem with it right up to when the car sold. (over a year later.) I never had a boost gauge on the car so I never knew what PSI the car was putting out, but I could certainally feel the difference in the power of the car over stock.

I have talked to the dealer that installed the chip, and they confirm (as best they can over the phone and not seeing the car) that it is not a chip issue and if it was, then the car would not be starting or running at all. They said that the low PSI levels are not symptomatic of a chip problem, but more than likely a cold weather issue at best or something that has to do with the Turbo. Unfortionally this can not be confirmed without taking the car to them and having it checked out, possibly racking up a few hours of labor first without even starting to fix the problem. Unfortionally on a car with over 120k miles on the clock these problems can be frustrating and sometimes quite expensive to fix.

When you say "soldered it right to the board" do you mean they soldered the actual chip or they put in 2 rows of socket pins to hold the encoded chip board that the chip then goes into? This is why I asked if you can post pics.

mike-2ptzero
01-04-2006, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by bitterchild
GIAC is moving to flashloading everything dbw.

I dont think they flash load the 2000's.

IKE20VA4
01-04-2006, 06:40 PM
I would say it could be weather, but mine is having the same 3rd gear symtoms. About 10-11 psi max. Here is Oregon it is ~50 degrees today. I am only at 70,000 miles though, I wouldn't think my turbo would be shot, especially the k03 sport.

My chip is soldered like this :they put in 2 rows of socket pins to hold the encoded chip board that the chip then goes into.

LateraLex
01-04-2006, 09:27 PM
Something about SRS rubs me the wrong way [:(] I guess he has a lot of clients who don't mind dropping a lot of money on labor...

I am going to log some stuff tomorrow hopefully. What do people suggest? I was planning on MAF, O2, and coolant sensor.

Mike here is a pic I took yesterday. Soldered on with header pins
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6862DSC02858-med.jpg

illbill
01-05-2006, 06:37 AM
I'm sorry man, but that car felt about as stock as stock can get.

I'll log his maf tonight, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to see peak values of 135-140 g/s. Using the 1.25 rule of thumb since he has a stock maf housing that should put him right around 170hp.

I would have looked at it the night I logged his requested/actual but the latop battery died =/

Can anybody provide logs from a properly running GIAC X car to compare against. block 2, 31, 115.


Originally posted by AudiMat
I never had a boost gauge on the car so I never knew what PSI the car was putting out, but I could certainally feel the difference in the power of the car over stock.

illbill
01-05-2006, 06:40 AM
nm, I got them.


Originally posted by illbill

Can anybody provide logs from a properly running GIAC X car to compare against. block 2, 31, 115.

mike-2ptzero
01-05-2006, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by LateraLex
Something about SRS rubs me the wrong way [:(] I guess he has a lot of clients who don't mind dropping a lot of money on labor...

I am going to log some stuff tomorrow hopefully. What do people suggest? I was planning on MAF, O2, and coolant sensor.

Mike here is a pic I took yesterday. Soldered on with header pins
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6862DSC02858-med.jpg

Can you post up a better picture of the top of the chip and maybe a picture of the bottom of the socket board. Just wondering what chip version was burned into the chip.

If it is a true giac chip and socket board, it almost sounds like they burned a stock file version into it. This will be mainly shown by looking at the boost request/actually logs and the N75 duty cycle logs. If you do have those you might want to contact GIAC and tell them that the chip you paid for isnn't what it should be and show them the logs.

LateraLex
01-05-2006, 09:23 AM
Shawn thanks man. Just give me a call whenever you want to meet up.

Mike I can post a better pic of the top, but don't have any pics of the bottom. When I flipped it over I only saw the two rows of solder points (no spalshes or bridges).

I'll post up the logs. [up]

mike-2ptzero
01-05-2006, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by LateraLex
Shawn thanks man. Just give me a call whenever you want to meet up.

Mike I can post a better pic of the top, but don't have any pics of the bottom. When I flipped it over I only saw the two rows of solder points (no spalshes or bridges).

I'll post up the logs. [up]

Are you talking about the bottom of the GIAC socket board or the actual ecu? Because I was talking about the actually socket board that is sitting on the 2 rows of pins. Just trying to see if there is a very small chip under there.

IKE20VA4
01-05-2006, 09:57 AM
The encrypter board? I know mine has that. It is about 1/4" square.

mike-2ptzero
01-05-2006, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by 20VTURBOA4
The encrypter board? I know mine has that. It is about 1/4" square.

and should be covered in a white colored epoxy glue.

IKE20VA4
01-05-2006, 10:02 AM
Yeah, so what's it all about? I know it is supposed to prevent the dealer from reflashing or other companies from stealing GIAC's software.

LateraLex
01-05-2006, 07:15 PM
LOGS:
We did some WOT runs in third from 2K RPM to 6.5K.

So... is this a stock file, or could this be something mechanical?

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6862MAF_Boost_1_5_06.JPG
^^ Are the differences between requested/actual boost normal? I had excel calculate the numbers, and it is off by .5 to 1 psi.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6862Lambda_CoolantTemp_1_5_06.JPG
^ Lamba + Coolant Temp
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6862Timing_retard_1_5_06.JPG
^ Timing retard (no RPMs)
Laptop battery died on this last log but the numbers make sense.

mike-2ptzero
01-05-2006, 07:29 PM
Well your maf readings are pretty low for being chipped. Plus the 02 sensor readings seem a bit lean.

LateraLex
01-05-2006, 07:34 PM
Yeah Mike thats what we thought. May just go upgrade to GIAC-X. [:)]

mike-2ptzero
01-05-2006, 07:36 PM
Dont you already have a GIAC-X chip? Thats all GIAC makes for the 2001+ which is what you should have already. Any chance you can post up the #'s on that chip? It will tell you exactly what chip version you have for that year.

IKE20VA4
01-05-2006, 07:38 PM
Well on my APR chip I was hitting over 2000mbar. I need to do some logs on my GIAC though to see what's up. I think I may have some codes putting me in limp or something.

IKE20VA4
01-05-2006, 07:40 PM
I am pretty positive my chip ends in .018a

could you tell me what software that is?

IKE20VA4
01-05-2006, 07:42 PM
Oh, and the X-chip isn't all GIAC puts out for 2001. This is what I was told per my GIAC dealer.

"There is no specific X chip for the '01's, except in the new Flash software (which is sketchy to do on your ECU due to the APR solder issue)."

LateraLex
01-05-2006, 07:43 PM
Here is the top of the chip. The text is pretty blurry.

The only thing I can think is SOMEHOW this chip has the stock program on it. My GIAC dealer can't upgrade this chip, so I would need to go to GIAC-X flash if I want a reflash. Thanks for helping.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6862DSC02861.jpg

ianlionzion
01-05-2006, 08:00 PM
018CH02F.08A is what is on my xchip. I can't make out any digits after the 018M...

mike-2ptzero
01-05-2006, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by 20VTURBOA4
Well on my APR chip I was hitting over 2000mbar. I need to do some logs on my GIAC though to see what's up. I think I may have some codes putting me in limp or something.


K03 chips wont hit 200 g/s unless the tuner has changed how the ecu reads the maf sensor. Fact is that most K04's wont even hit 200 g/s unless they are running very high boost levels which are near 2 bar of boost. Most street K03 chips will see about 170-180 g/s max.


08a just means it is burned for the 08a encrip board from GIAC. This is a board for the north america dbw ecu.

Xchip is just the type of programming in the chip and it was the only one put out by GIAC for the 2001+ cars. The other programs for the flash load are just versions of the xchip(street and race) and then a few of other programs that cut power.

illbill
01-06-2006, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by mike-2ptzero
K03 chips wont hit 200mbar unless the tuner has changed how the ecu reads the maf sensor. Fact is that most K04's wont even hit 200mbar unless they are running very high boost levels which are near 2 bar of boost. Most street K03 chips will see about 170-180mbar max.

Mike- I assume your talking about g/s here, not mbar. I would expect to see him hover around 170
for his max maf reading. The dbw cars read as high as 215g/s right?

Alex- If I was in your situation, by now, I think I would just pay Eli the $80 and square away the fact
that you actually have the proper GIAC X software. Then take things from there if it's still not running right.
That setup should be good for high 7s/low 8s caps time, not the high 8s/low 9s you are seeing now.

mike-2ptzero
01-06-2006, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by illbill
Mike- I assume your talking about g/s here, not mbar. I would expect to see him hover around 170
for his max maf reading. The dbw cars read as high as 215g/s right?

Alex- If I was in your situation, by now, I think I would just pay Eli the $80 and square away the fact
that you actually have the proper GIAC X software. Then take things from there if it's still not running right.
That setup should be good for high 7s/low 8s caps time, not the high 8s/low 9s you are seeing now.


LOL, yes. Sorry about that, didn't even notice that I put mbar instead of g/s.

I also just notice that he was talking about the boost readings in mbar.

IKE20VA4
01-06-2006, 09:45 AM
Lol, ok good cause I was feeling either really confused or really stupid...

littlewhite
01-06-2006, 02:13 PM
You should have X chip since u r 01.
I have a 00 with the IBE switch. Holding around 1.1 bar in ~45F temp this week. When i switch back to stock a while back it was boosting around 0.5 bar, which is stock.
See if there are any hidden codes, hope u get it clear out soon!! ANd enjoy the full potential of being chipped*

littlewhite
01-06-2006, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by 20VTURBOA4
I was at a GIAC dealer a few weeks ago and they told me the X-chip is flashloaded only. At least for the 01's.

I just became chipped with GIAC also. Switching from APR. It is a lot smoother. Although I'm not seeing as much boost at all from it. Like in 5th gear at 65mph APR would show a solid 15psi all the way to 80mph. With GIAC I'm getting 14psi max going down to about 10psi at 80mph.

I don't know if I got a boost leak, but it was pretty much right after I switched to GIAC. The shop did say that they APR chip was soldered on pretty poorly and they had some problems getting the GIAC chip socket on right.

Did u get yours @ Matrix ? Go bug Jeremy [:p]

LateraLex
01-06-2006, 02:18 PM
Status does software?

littlewhite
01-06-2006, 02:25 PM
^ lol no, they make seats... bah

IKE20VA4
01-06-2006, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by blackknight
Did u get yours @ Matrix ? Go bug Jeremy [:p]

Matrix installed it. I bought it 2nd hand though.

I am in contact with Jeremy though[cool]