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blacka41point8t
01-03-2006, 12:18 AM
Alright so I think i've got this down...

Borla 14845 (complete cat back system with downpipe) $649.95

K04L 1997-99.5 $1,699.00

PC16 Upgrade (Injector set and special GIAC chip) $200.00

Stage 2 Clutch Kit for OEM flywheel, 5sp $499.00

96-01 A4quattrokit rotors/brakes(no wear sensors) $499.95

ForgeDV30 Polished Silver EACH $159.95

This is all from AWE.

Will I need anything else? I didn't see the fpr and i've read so much stuff about how it needs to be at 2.7 or to get a 5 bar or a 3 bar. is a front mount necessary? it gets to be about 70+ here in the summer.

BranCKY3
01-03-2006, 12:34 AM
Don't buy the k04 kit from AWE if you are gonna be going PC16, you don't need the fpr the kit comes with and you can find the turbo a lot cheaper.
You can find a k04 for $700 shipped + $50 for the install kit, then $500 for a base GIAC chip.
Also, I think you might have to run a FMIC, but you can probably get away with not doing so in the winter.
If you need to save any more money you can change the forge DV for a 710N dv which are only $35.

salz2135
01-03-2006, 02:28 AM
second that. the man is def right. piece together your own kit. If you're just going to do the pc-16 upgrade, buying the whole AWE kit is a complete waste of money.

also, I would add the FMIC to that list. PC-16 was written for one and 70+ degrees will surely call for one.

I'm pretty sure the AWE pc-16 upgrade comes with a 3 bar FPR that isn't adjustable. People have stated that even with the RC injectors and 3 bar, you'll still run rich, so the adj. FPR dialed down is needed.

94jedi
01-03-2006, 07:01 AM
Get the FMIC. Also, go to www.GIACusa.com , then to the faq section and you find some info on the pc-16.

goldenchild
01-03-2006, 07:47 AM
theres a guy on here sellin his evoms for like 600 i think very nice unit

bitterchild
01-03-2006, 08:16 AM
$200 for injectors and chip/board? I think they mean $200 for the new chip/board upgrade not including cost of injectors.

k04-015's are $800 new

stick w/ the 710N

FMIC is required for pc-16... that's where it gets the power from...

blacka41point8t
01-03-2006, 09:34 AM
are there any intercoolers that will fit under the stock bumper? I have a giac file right now thats socketed so maybe giac will give me a deal on the pc16 if i trade my chip in? ebay has k04's for 700 shipped. what plugs would I need to run. I have searched all of this stuff but there were so many mixed answers I thought it would be better for some of the pro's to tell me.

94jedi
01-03-2006, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by blacka41point8t
are there any intercoolers that will fit under the stock bumper? I have a giac file right now thats socketed so maybe giac will give me a deal on the pc16 if i trade my chip in? ebay has k04's for 700 shipped. what plugs would I need to run. I have searched all of this stuff but there were so many mixed answers I thought it would be better for some of the pro's to tell me.

With most FMIC's you will at least have to trim a small amount. Obviously some fit better than others. Contact bitterchild for info on the ER FMIC. That's probably your best bang for the buck FMIC. I thin GIAC will charge you $200 if you're already socketed. for the k04, talk to rippinralf here on AZ or on the vortex. he can get you a good deal on a k04. better than ebay at least and I'd rather deal with him than ebay anyday. for plugs...either ngk bk6re's or 7re's.

94jedi
01-03-2006, 10:32 AM
oh and I'm certainly not a pro, but I think I may be going this route shortly since I'm too poor and to play with the idea of any type of stg 3.[:(]

blacka41point8t
01-03-2006, 10:41 AM
what about injectors? do i need the 310cc ones?

94jedi
01-03-2006, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by blacka41point8t
what about injectors? do i need the 310cc ones?

Get the FMIC. Also, go to www.GIACusa.com , then to the faq section and you find some info on the pc-16.

10. How do I get the custom PC16 K04 file to work on my '97-99 Audi� A4/Passat 1.8T?
The "PC16_01_K04" file was a originally a custom chip written for a 1999 Audi A4 1.8t, with the following hardware:

* FMIC that will keep IAT's below 50 degrees Celsius.
* 3 Bar Fuel Pressure Regulator.
* 31 lb \"red top\" Bosch Motorsport injectors.
* 02 sensor with less than 50,000 miles on it.
* Spark plugs with less than 10,000 miles on them.
* Fuel Filter with less than 50,000 miles on it.
* A clean Air Filter.

If you are planning to upgrade to the PC16 file make sure you have all of the above required components.


www.usrallyteam.com for the inj.

blacka41point8t
01-03-2006, 10:47 AM
So i would need to get a new 02 and a new fuel filter and then the red top injectors are the 310cc ones correct?

94jedi
01-03-2006, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by blacka41point8t
So i would need to get a new 02 and a new fuel filter and then the red top injectors are the 310cc ones correct?

no, I wouldn't get them new...just make sure yours are in good condition. yes, the 31 lb's are the bosch 310's.

blacka41point8t
01-03-2006, 10:54 AM
my car has only 60k so they are in good condition id assume! I've never installed a turbo before...I have some mechanical skills. on my old mazda I did headers, cams, intake and stuff like that...I think if i had a bentley or something i'd be able to do it. Would I need any power tools for the install of the turbo? Just take off the front end and then Its pretty much smooth sailing from there right?

creechsa4
01-03-2006, 11:55 AM
I just did my k04 this holiday weekend. i used pneumatic when assembling the new turbo in, but it's not absolutely necessary. Just soak all your nuts/bolts that you're going to remov in pb blaster (steroid wd-40) overnight. especially in your environment. the hardest bolt was removing the lower nut on the cat manifold flange, i just used a 3/8 universal with a long extension on the 17mm nut. i'm running my k04 on giac k03 programming with a ported exhaust manifold. it made a big difference from my k03 even just running the k03 giac, spools up instantaneously... in a few months can't wait to run the pc-16 too. good luck with your piecing your kit together.
wow & running your K04 hard, i popped the hood. my manifold & turbo were bright orange!

b00st
01-03-2006, 12:03 PM
i'd still go with the adjustable instead of the 3 bar. I have a 3 bar sitting in my garage. the adjustable is the better route....still runs rich with it...but you will run that much more rich with the 3 bar. but i ran my pc16 on 3 bar for a while...but i leaned it out with the adjustable.

salz2135
01-03-2006, 12:24 PM
any specific spark plugs for pc16?

b00st
01-03-2006, 12:36 PM
nope.

but i run NGK BKR6E or BRK6E...whatever its...I'm sure the search button will turn up this result...I mix the letters up sometimes.

94jedi
01-03-2006, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by b00st
i'd still go with the adjustable instead of the 3 bar. I have a 3 bar sitting in my garage. the adjustable is the better route....still runs rich with it...but you will run that much more rich with the 3 bar. but i ran my pc16 on 3 bar for a while...but i leaned it out with the adjustable.

yeah my mistake, the adj. fpr is better. you need to go down to ~ 2.7-.8 bar or so.

boost what fp are you running it at?

bitterchild
01-03-2006, 12:47 PM
if you're running rich then you have the wrong injectors or something else wrong. The file is written for 3bar.

skip the o2 sensor and fuel filter. Just get the injectors, 3bar, turbo, gasket and fasteners and an FMIC. If you need some help I can take care of it all for you.

b00st
01-03-2006, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by 94jedi
yeah my mistake, the adj. fpr is better. you need to go down to ~ 2.7-.8 bar or so.

boost what fp are you running it at?

39.5psi

b00st
01-03-2006, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by bitterchild
if you're running rich then you have the wrong injectors or something else wrong. The file is written for 3bar.

skip the o2 sensor and fuel filter. Just get the injectors, 3bar, turbo, gasket and fasteners and an FMIC. If you need some help I can take care of it all for you.

Mike said not to run a 3 bar but to lower it 2.7 - 2.8. since he knows the guys who developed the file.

I'm running the bosch 310 redtops. If I recall mike's conversations, he said it would still run rich in the middle. those were the suggested injectors to run. I know Mike posted up the difference between RC Engineering, Bosch 310, and I think there was one more and the actual flow rates.

I checked my 3bar against the adjustable before I put my adjustable in and the 3 bar was not were it was supposed to be...it needed to be corrected with the adjustable FPR, just my 02 and my experience with it.

b00st
01-03-2006, 01:59 PM
ask bitter about getting a RACEWERKS FMIC to fit behind your stock bumper or you can go with EVOMS which fits behind the stock bumper.

to be honest i think bitters bar and plate design is prolly high quality than the EVOMS. but you'll need it for the PC16 file.

blacka41point8t
01-03-2006, 02:04 PM
Will my stock clutch handle the k04 or will I need to get a stage 2 clutch.

AB18
01-03-2006, 02:06 PM
I have the New evo, and its a bar/plate aswell. And it fits behind the stock bumper with trimming, but its tight.

AB18
01-03-2006, 02:10 PM
My stock clutch didnt hold my ko4, but alot of that i think has to do with my driving style, im slightly aggressive,and my car sees the track almost everyweekend during season.

b00st
01-03-2006, 02:34 PM
yeah my clutch holds my k04. I don't drive like AB18 or track my car. You can't launch with stock clutch. But if you learn...you can get out of the whole semi-decent with it. I kinda hold it at 2k-2.5k and feather it out and then go WOT...seems to work for me so when i come out of the gate I'm WOT and at 3K....takes some getting used to....its a fine line to walk cuz you can easily burn the clutch that way.

AND EVO MAKES A NEW BAR & PLATE DESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!
jealous I am. I have my stock bumper on for the winter and then will be putting my RIEGER RS4 bumper as well as the rest of the Rieger Body Kit. still researching on the Nitrous DP for power in combination with the k04 for, for some top end power. 50 or 75 shot tops.

AB18
01-03-2006, 02:41 PM
Your evo isnt bar/plate? I thought they were always that way. But yeah, the new design are barplate and work extremely well. The stock clutchs are worthless.

94jedi
01-03-2006, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by blacka41point8t
Will my stock clutch handle the k04 or will I need to get a stage 2 clutch.

you're stock clutch probably won't take it for very long and as these guys have said, launching is a no-no. I think I'm going to find out exactly how much the stock clutch can take since I'm going to wait a bit before getting a clutch.

01'A41.8T
01-03-2006, 02:55 PM
Another intercooler option that fits behind a stock bumper is the new race tec gen III.

Race Tec (http://www.racetec-us.com/)

b00st
01-03-2006, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by AB18
Your evo isnt bar/plate? I thought they were always that way. But yeah, the new design are barplate and work extremely well. The stock clutchs are worthless.

no mines tube/fin....looks like a radiator...nothing like bar/plate like Bitters Racewerks one.

bitterchild
01-03-2006, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by b00st
Mike said not to run a 3 bar but to lower it 2.7 - 2.8. since he knows the guys who developed the file.

I still have no idea what injectors the file is actually written for. an adjustable wouldn't be a bad idea considering the cost. The thing is the average user won't be able to tune much w/o access to a wideband or experience with plug/butt tuning


Originally posted by 01'A41.8T
Another intercooler option that fits behind a stock bumper is the new race tec gen III.

Race Tec (http://www.racetec-us.com/)

Ask them for a pic of the hot side charge piping. It will be obvious that due to the smog pump the piping is compromised.

AB18
01-03-2006, 03:50 PM
The only fitment probs i had it my ic piping hits the fog housing in order so my turbo exit hose can flow.

b00st
01-03-2006, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by bitterchild
I still have no idea what injectors the file is actually written for. an adjustable wouldn't be a bad idea considering the cost. The thing is the average user won't be able to tune much w/o access to a wideband or experience with plug/butt tuning



honestly i think it was for a 270cc flow. i can't remember if it was posted here or on AW. mike posted if he sees this thread, i'm sure he can enlighten us to which.

at any rate, EVOMS advised the Bosch 310's and got me the PC16 file. I already had the DP, Exhaust, FMIC, and Adjustable.

I put my fuel pressure gauge on first and then started the car to see where I was at....then did my adjustable....the 3 bar was off by about 3-4 psi. justable was definitely right thing considering the file runs fat already.

nizmosx
01-03-2006, 04:07 PM
i beleive this file was written for 310cc injectors with an adjustable fpr set at 3 bar. That is why the guys who are running the audi tt wich i beleive are 317cc run their fprs at 2.7-2.8

dont quote me on this but i been doing some research and this is what i have gathered. Maybe someone should call up jeff moss and get the facts straight.

bitterchild
01-03-2006, 04:17 PM
at one point that's what I thought but who the fvck knows. I shoulda run it myself. Seems like that's the way to go in this niche w/ all the misinformation

blacka41point8t
01-03-2006, 05:01 PM
wheres the best place to piece together my setup? ebay..awe...ecs what else?

94jedi
01-03-2006, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by bitterchild
at one point that's what I thought but who the fvck knows. I shoulda run it myself. Seems like that's the way to go in this niche w/ all the misinformation

don't worry, you'll be able to set the record straight shortly.

b00st
01-03-2006, 05:51 PM
here is the info from MIKE from AW

You want the GIAC PC16 file which is for ndbw K04 setups.
User account number (aid): 42349
Posted by Audi2ptzero on 2005-07-28 14:55:50


But you will need an adjustable fpr that goes below 3 bar and a set of 310cc ford red tops or the 317cc injectors out of a Audi 180TT.

b00st
01-03-2006, 05:53 PM
more info from MIKE from AW:

Your info is a bit off.
User account number (aid): 42349
Posted by Audi2ptzero on 2005-06-01 10:59:30
In Reply to: i believe the j31 can be run with 5 bar fpr and stock injectors... posted by ModifiedA4 on 2005-05-31 13:38:37

The 2.8 bar setting is for the PC16 file. With the 310cc/J31 combo the fpr needs to be set at around 3.6 bar.



Another post i found when I was asking.....I think he said RC 310's have a flow rate of 270cc.


Depends on what 310cc injectors your using.
User account number (aid): 42349
Posted by Audi2ptzero on 2005-02-12 14:32:17
In Reply to: 3-bar or adjustable???? posted by capeA4 on 2005-02-12 12:15:53

If this is the PC-16 file, it is tuned for RC 310's but even then it ran pretty rich in the midrange. Best thing is to run a adjustable fpr just around 2.6-2.8 bar depending on if you have the RC's or the higher flow bosch 310cc redtops.

From what others have said, the one from Evolution Motorsports works pretty good.
User account number (aid): 42349
Posted by Audi2ptzero on 2005-02-12 19:59:28

found it....

from MIKE again:
The chip was first tuned on a 3 bar, but the owner of the car was running the RC310's
User account number (aid): 42349
Posted by Audi2ptzero on 2005-11-29 09:29:29
In Reply to: Why does GIAC's website specify a 3 bar regulator for the PC-16 file? My car hates anything over 2.6 posted by bitjockey on 2005-11-29 09:17:39

which flow like 270cc injectors. If your running real 310cc injectors you will need to run around 2.6 bar of fuel pressure.





which is where i got mine....hope this clears it up.

blacka41point8t
01-03-2006, 07:57 PM
K04-015 Turbo (ebay) $700
K04 Install kit (ecs tuning) $40
Testpipe (ecodetuning) $199
P&P Manifold (supreme power parts) $175
Giac Pc-16 Software (200 to upgrade from my 91 chip) $200
Bosch 300cc Injectors (usrallyteam.com) $155
Borla exhaust (awe)$683.11
Race tech FMIC (supreme power parts) $948.59
Adjustable fpr (ecstuning) $164.95
Forge dv (ecstuning)- $135

$3600




How does this look? Am I missing anything? Anything I shuld take out? Can i go with 30LB injectors instead of 31?

01'A41.8T
01-03-2006, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by bitterchild
Ask them for a pic of the hot side charge piping. It will be obvious that due to the smog pump the piping is compromised.

Not sure I follow, how is it compromised? Not trying to be a jerk but do you have a pic?

01'A41.8T
01-03-2006, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by blacka41point8t
K04-015 Turbo (ebay) $700
K04 Install kit (ecs tuning) $40
Testpipe (ecodetuning) $199
P&P Manifold (supreme power parts) $175
Giac Pc-16 Software (200 to upgrade from my 91 chip) $200
Bosch 300cc Injectors (usrallyteam.com) $155
Borla exhaust (awe)$683.11
Race tech FMIC (supreme power parts) $948.59
Adjustable fpr (ecstuning) $164.95
Forge dv (ecstuning)- $135

$3600




How does this look? Am I missing anything? Anything I shuld take out? Can i go with 30LB injectors instead of 31?

Looks good, but like others said I would just go with a 710N dv to save some cash and just beware that the chances of a crack with a p&p manifold are high. Also you might be able to find the borla for a little less than that.

alen
01-03-2006, 09:10 PM
not trying to sidetrack the thread but i was involved in a discussion about the J31 file on FI forum. i'm actually in the middle of reflashing the file and installing the IC along with the injectors to run the J31.

from our conversations Mike has posted this about J31:

J31 needs stock(270cc & 5 bar) or you can go 310cc bosch red tops with an adjustable fpr or go with the 180TT 317cc injectors with an adjustable fpr. Dont go with the 225tt 380cc injectors because they are too big and you would have to run the adjustable fpr way too low.

The J31 needs the injectors to be around 33.19 lbs/hr. This is the combo your looking at

stock 270cc @ 72.5psi/5bar
310cc redtops @ 55psi/3.793bar
317 (180tt 317cc) @ 52.6psi/3.6275

here is the 225tt injectors
380cc @ 36.6psi or 2.5241 bar


*************

so what advantage do i have with upgraded injectors when I can run stock injectors with a 5 bar fpr?

just for the record i have siemens 310cc that i'm about to install.

Alen

Burntaudi
01-03-2006, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by alen

So what advantage do i have with upgraded injectors when I can run stock injectors with a 5 bar fpr?



Alen

Stock injectors are maxed out at 5 bar and and tend to be lean at high RPM.

alen
01-03-2006, 09:20 PM
tx that answers it [up]

dualaudi
01-03-2006, 09:31 PM
K04-015 Turbo (ebay) $700
K04 Install kit (ecs tuning) $40
Testpipe (ecodetuning) $ (nice, but no need)
P&P Manifold (supreme power parts) $ (no need, get a big dremmel and port your stock (optional) )
Giac Pc-16 Software (200 to upgrade from my 91 chip) $200
Bosch 300cc Injectors (usrallyteam.com) $155
Borla exhaust (awe)$683.11 (u can find another alt exhaust for like $300 -forums- )
Race tech FMIC (supreme power parts) $948.59 (ummm, wait for bitter's to come out i'm sure group buy will be way cheaper)
Adjustable fpr (ecstuning) $164.95
Forge dv (ecstuning)- $135

$1695 (not including IC)

This is the way to go... but spend the $3600, should be fun!

01'A41.8T
01-03-2006, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by dualaudi
P&P Manifold (supreme power parts) $ (no need, get a big dremmel and port your stock (optional) )


[rolleyes]

blacka41point8t
01-04-2006, 04:57 AM
K screw the mani then...I do have a 710N I was kinda worried it wouldn't hold the boost though. Does bitterchild have a set date for his intercoolers?

94jedi
01-04-2006, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by blacka41point8t
K screw the mani then...I do have a 710N I was kinda worried it wouldn't hold the boost though. Does bitterchild have a set date for his intercoolers?

Bitterchilds FMIC's are going through with testing. did you get a hold of him to let him know you wanted to be a tester?

the 710 is fine. I know people with APR stg3's using 710N's. just keep an eye on it.

If you really want a decent mani, look into ATP's. The problem then become the age old argument, if you're changing the mani, inj. etc...why not just go big turbo?

eisman
01-04-2006, 06:57 AM
ajusa.com has the borla for ~$605 shipped. I haven't been able to find a used high flow exhaust for anywhere near $300 on the forums, I have been looking for 2 months. Lowest was $400 + shipping ($100), not worth it at that point.

I have been piecing this kit together too, but I need to get other supporting mods done first (breaks and suspension). I wouldn't change the manifold, if you are going to wrench that much go BT. It all depends on what your goals are. Mine is driveability with enough power to put a grin on my face. Keep us updated on what you are going to do.

b00st
01-04-2006, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by blacka41point8t
K04-015 Turbo (ebay) $700
K04 Install kit (ecs tuning) $40
Testpipe (ecodetuning) $199
P&P Manifold (supreme power parts) $175
Giac Pc-16 Software (200 to upgrade from my 91 chip) $200
Bosch 300cc Injectors (usrallyteam.com) $155
Borla exhaust (awe)$683.11
Race tech FMIC (supreme power parts) $948.59
Adjustable fpr (ecstuning) $164.95
Forge dv (ecstuning)- $135

$3600




How does this look? Am I missing anything? Anything I shuld take out? Can i go with 30LB injectors instead of 31?

curious as to why you landed on Bosch 300cc instead of the 310's? I would go higher not smaller. Either get the Bosch 310s or RC Engineering 310s or TT 180 injectors.

blacka41point8t
01-04-2006, 11:08 AM
Bitterchild you have pm...

psipleasure
01-04-2006, 11:51 AM
you can get a custom mandrel bent exhaust with muffler for around 300 dollars. get a used test pipe for around 125. used intercooler is around 600. and then get a nice atp manifold with the money you save from that and have 200 dollars left over[wrench]

b00st
01-04-2006, 11:53 AM
just run the bosch 310 redtops like the rest of us PC16 users...make life easy.

b00st
01-04-2006, 11:56 AM
don't forget you need a fuel pressure gauge...how you gonna set the adjustable?

http://www.tyrolsport.com/vwperformance.htm

94jedi
01-04-2006, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by b00st
don't forget you need a fuel pressure gauge...how you gonna set the adjustable?

http://www.tyrolsport.com/vwperformance.htm

Hey boost, can you give us all an idea of how the pc-16 feels? what was your mod progression? did you go from stock to chipped to k04 then pc-16? I'm just wondering if you can quantify the gain for us.

thanks

b00st
01-04-2006, 01:36 PM
here's how i got to PC16.

i bought the car...and within a week of owning it...i had my ECU shipped out to EVOMS and got me a stage 1 power pack. So k03 chip, DV, and CAI. Then I bought exhaust. I was pretty happy...raced a few cars. Beat a 94ish Mustang GT with intake & exhaust and I was happy.

My turbo blew...not from the chip but from the 100+ degree weather and the 2hrs of stop and go traffic everyday for a year, due to my new job. (seals blew on the turbo) So I called Jordan and said I new a Turbo ASAP. I wanted something that I could just bolt up cuz my car was screwed and I needed it asap! something simple and easy to do. So I don't get PES T28 and just K04 standard and had him add the EVOMS FMIC as well. since the whole hot weather thing and heat soak. so I got that. it was decent but I could still feel that same feeling as k03/k04 people feel. the top end is just not there. I call jordan and ask him whatelse does he have...I've been reading on this J31 and PC16 files. He says to go that route as opposed to T28. So i get the injectors and PDK16 file first....didn't like that. Had them reflash with PC16 and have been happy ever since. Its like rechipping a k04 all over again. It was a night and day difference between standard k04 chip and PC16. Even my brother could tell the difference and he's not in my ride all the time. It held a better top end....still drops off the...i mean its still a k04. but I spool at 2000rpms and full by 2700-2800. So if you can come out of the gates around 3k....your money.

thing is PC16 puts you in a class where you can be competitive...but not totally. Its quick and you can take on lots of cars that you normally think you would lose to. you got to know your car and its bog points and drag people into your prime range and your golden in a street race. I'm sure half the cars would run me down...but its fun to hold a lead against cars throwing down more than you. I'm sure past 100 or so these cars that i've gone against would pass me...but i don't really care....its a street setup to me. not the best 1/4 mile setup...but on the street at low rpms...i've been surprised.

example: my brother-in-law has a turbo IS300 on a hub dyno threw dyno 285/302 to the wheels in the summer and then we tried a roller dyno in Nov. and he did 300/300 to the wheels. now my numbers are nowhere near his. and from a dig up to about a 85ish...i have him all the way...he makes his come back in 3rd gear where he starts coming back but we normally kill it. we've done rolls from all different MPH or RPMS and half the time I win or half the time he wins....on the highway last time we raced at 70-100 i dropped into 4th gear instead of my usual 3rd (which i think was my mistake) cuz this time we were neck and neck up to 100...so i had the bright idea to shift from 4th to 5th at 5200 thinking that would keep me in the powerband...but my friend pulled away. But i used to race at 70...i would drop to 3rd gear and lose bad as we know the k04 has no power past 5k or 5500 rpms. the 4th gear thing worked for me. also raced a 03 mustang GT with exhuast, x-pipe, and intake, him solo. and me with a full tank of gas and 2 extra people in the car from a roll from 30...i beat him by 1CL up to 80...we raced again from same rolling speed and he missed 3rd. so i let him race on more time and i beat him by half a car. i pulled up to the light and said...looks like that thing has more bark that bite....cuz it was loud. I told him you should be beating me I've got 2 more people than you plus this tiny motor and tiny turbo on. At any rate if anyone knows anything about turbo IS300 cars...they have bad 60fts. but a stage 1 turbo IS300 is a 350 crank car....i'd i'm pretty competitive with him. reason being is his 60 fts are bad...225s tires and not sticky enough tires. and he has mad power. his car has full potential to run mid 13s....if he has wider and better tires but he doesn't so really he is a 14 second car. traps are around 103-104mph. it picks up on the back half. but you bring what your brought. his advantage is on the highway where it feels like a mid 13s car for sure. and the IS300 is known to be good up top and depending on the speed we go at...i am competitive there...but i can't hold it for the whole duration....which is the problem of the k04. the PC16 setup is solid street competitor...i'm happy with it...but now i want more, such is the normal case. If i could get a shot of nitrous to work on my setup...i would call it done. that would get me to pull through that high rpms...that would hold the competitiion at bay all the way down the track, highway or whatever.

94jedi
01-04-2006, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by b00st
here's how i got to PC16.

i bought the car...and within a week of owning it...i had my ECU shipped out to EVOMS and got me a stage 1 power pack. So k03 chip, DV, and CAI. Then I bought exhaust. I was pretty happy...raced a few cars. Beat a 94ish Mustang GT with intake & exhaust and I was happy.

My turbo blew...not from the chip but from the 100+ degree weather and the 2hrs of stop and go traffic everyday for a year, due to my new job. (seals blew on the turbo) So I called Jordan and said I new a Turbo ASAP. I wanted something that I could just bolt up cuz my car was screwed and I needed it asap! something simple and easy to do. So I don't get PES T28 and just K04 standard and had him add the EVOMS FMIC as well. since the whole hot weather thing and heat soak. so I got that. it was decent but I could still feel that same feeling as k03/k04 people feel. the top end is just not there. I call jordan and ask him whatelse does he have...I've been reading on this J31 and PC16 files. He says to go that route as opposed to T28. So i get the injectors and PDK16 file first....didn't like that. Had them reflash with PC16 and have been happy ever since. Its like rechipping a k04 all over again. It was a night and day difference between standard k04 chip and PC16. Even my brother could tell the difference and he's not in my ride all the time. It held a better top end....still drops off the...i mean its still a k04. but I spool at 2000rpms and full by 2700-2800. So if you can come out of the gates around 3k....your money.

thing is PC16 puts you in a class where you can be competitive...but not totally. Its quick and you can take on lots of cars that you normally think you would lose to. you got to know your car and its bog points and drag people into your prime range and your golden in a street race. I'm sure half the cars would run me down...but its fun to hold a lead against cars throwing down more than you. I'm sure past 100 or so these cars that i've gone against would pass me...but i don't really care....its a street setup to me. not the best 1/4 mile setup...but on the street at low rpms...i've been surprised.

example: my brother-in-law has a turbo IS300 on a hub dyno threw dyno 285/302 to the wheels in the summer and then we tried a roller dyno in Nov. and he did 300/300 to the wheels. now my numbers are nowhere near his. and from a dig up to about a 85ish...i have him all the way...he makes his come back in 3rd gear where he starts coming back but we normally kill it. we've done rolls from all different MPH or RPMS and half the time I win or half the time he wins....on the highway last time we raced at 70-100 i dropped into 4th gear instead of my usual 3rd (which i think was my mistake) cuz this time we were neck and neck up to 100...so i had the bright idea to shift from 4th to 5th at 5200 thinking that would keep me in the powerband...but my friend pulled away. But i used to race at 70...i would drop to 3rd gear and lose bad as we know the k04 has no power past 5k or 5500 rpms. the 4th gear thing worked for me. also raced a 03 mustang GT with exhuast, x-pipe, and intake, him solo. and me with a full tank of gas and 2 extra people in the car from a roll from 30...i beat him by 1CL up to 80...we raced again from same rolling speed and he missed 3rd. so i let him race on more time and i beat him by half a car. i pulled up to the light and said...looks like that thing has more bark that bite....cuz it was loud. I told him you should be beating me I've got 2 more people than you plus this tiny motor and tiny turbo on. At any rate if anyone knows anything about turbo IS300 cars...they have bad 60fts. but a stage 1 turbo IS300 is a 350 crank car....i'd i'm pretty competitive with him. reason being is his 60 fts are bad...225s tires and not sticky enough tires. and he has mad power. his car has full potential to run mid 13s....if he has wider and better tires but he doesn't so really he is a 14 second car. traps are around 103-104mph. it picks up on the back half. but you bring what your brought. his advantage is on the highway where it feels like a mid 13s car for sure. and the IS300 is known to be good up top and depending on the speed we go at...i am competitive there...but i can't hold it for the whole duration....which is the problem of the k04. the PC16 setup is solid street competitor...i'm happy with it...but now i want more, such is the normal case. If i could get a shot of nitrous to work on my setup...i would call it done. that would get me to pull through that high rpms...that would hold the competitiion at bay all the way down the track, highway or whatever.

thanks for the break down boost. If you figure out your nitrous idea, let us all know because *if* I go k04, I know the pc-16 won't keep me happy for more than a week. I had a 125 shot on my mustang 5.0 and it was NASTY...but that was a dry shot....and later I found oil mixed in with coolant in the rad. so....lesson learned.

b00st
01-04-2006, 03:15 PM
here's a dyno sheet to my brother-in-laws turbo lexus.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/615000-615999/615506_40_full.jpg

you can see that SOB pulls to redline...hence why he makes his comes back on me. torque comes on pretty early for his T04E 60-1 HIFI. the other graph below was when his car was NA. (SAFC tuned, Intake & Exhaust).

and if you seen any k03/k04 ( i don't care what software...the fall off is bad after 5k) HP & TQ. his disadvantage is that he has to go all the way to red to make his max power. but his TQ gets him out there pretty quick. 302rqtq by 3600 ain't bad at all and the he has HP to carry him the rest of the way. the PC16 setup just gets there quicker...but fades just as quick....you gotta just keep on shifting through and keeping the power on. i'm about 1000 rpms ahead of his max tq...which lets me shoot out when we do our rolls from low rpms and digs. those dyno pulls for him were done in 4th gear. we both have 5spds. so if my setup can keep up or lead with his for 85% of a run...i'm happy. 7k turbo kit vs. my 3300 for everything that i've got. He has full 3" exhaust, 3" DP, and 3" HI FLO CAT. me i have stock cat, 2.5" DP, 2.75" exhaust (standard milltek).

b00st
01-04-2006, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by 94jedi
thanks for the break down boost. If you figure out your nitrous idea, let us all know because *if* I go k04, I know the pc-16 won't keep me happy for more than a week. I had a 125 shot on my mustang 5.0 and it was NASTY...but that was a dry shot....and later I found oil mixed in with coolant in the rad. so....lesson learned.

i would say that is lesson learned. but it was NASTY while it lasted!

np....PC16 puts you up there will some bigger fish...just can't hold them off all the way down. i've had very few races where i've gone from 10-110. i think i've done it about twice and it was against an evo VIII. on a roll from 55-110...i beat him by half car. from 10-110 we were dead even. PC16 is a real good street light setup....at least thats how i look at it.

most of my encounters are rolls or digs from a light and i'm only willing to push it so far given the area it happens in.

bitterchild
01-04-2006, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by 01'A41.8T
Not sure I follow, how is it compromised? Not trying to be a jerk but do you have a pic?

Ask racetec for a pic. I don't want to get into any brand bashing so get a pic from them and you will have no doubt as to the accuracy of the piping. I have seen racetec piping on smog pump (01+) equipped a4s that was downright disgusting.

blacka41point8t- i would not recommend a port and polished stock manifold. The 710N should hold up fine in that setup. All rubber diaphragm designs do eventually rupture but replacement is easy, cheap and failure doesn't cause any damage.

I also wouldn't recommend the racetec fmic but I am argueably biased so take what you will from that.


b00st- stock evo8's in any trim can pull 1.8x 60's so any race from a dig w/ a stock a4 clutch will not be fun. In stock trim the evo8 has a little bit of a p/w advantage but a car is only as fast as the driver.

AB18
01-04-2006, 03:48 PM
Boost, heres the guts to the new Evo one. Snapped a quick pic.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v664/kshdfsh/?action=view&current=Idleprob461.jpg

b00st
01-04-2006, 03:59 PM
edit: bitter is biased [;)]

but his/Racewerks FMIC Bar/Plate design looks top notch...and wish i had it right now...but wifey not OK me switching from one intercooler to another and spending more money cuz its better than the one i have.

my brother has a racetec FMIC on his B6...the IC piping on the turbo is FUGLY. as for the quality of construction...its definitely a solid piece. not bar/plate though but the core is nice for fin/tube.

b00st
01-04-2006, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by AB18
Boost, heres the guts to the new Evo one. Snapped a quick pic.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v664/kshdfsh/?action=view&current=Idleprob461.jpg

hmm...i think mine looks like that. mine is only a 1.5yrs old. but from the front it looks like fin/tube....now i not sure.

AB18
01-04-2006, 04:02 PM
Im not biased, if i hadnt already picked this up, i would probably be one of the very first people to run it:)

AB18
01-04-2006, 04:03 PM
Snap a up close pic of it

bitterchild
01-04-2006, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by AB18
Snap a up close pic of it

b00st
01-04-2006, 04:10 PM
you posted before i could put the arrow on bitter...but you'll see my edit [;)]

blacka41point8t
01-04-2006, 05:07 PM
is the k04 still pretty reliable?

b00st
01-04-2006, 05:07 PM
i'm going to try and max out my setup on k04. squeeze every once of power out of this setup.

next on list is ATP TESTPIPE
and that power gasket.

maybe some of those Turbo Inlet Hose from APR and the one that goes into the Intake Mani. and i think thats about it...besides researching a nitrous setup.

BranCKY3
01-04-2006, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by b00st
i mean its still a k04. but I spool at 2000rpms and full by 2700-2800.

Wow... mine's fully spooled by 2200 at the most. In 5th it will be at 18psi by 2100. Get that testpipe in there, and an intake helps a lot too!

01'A41.8T
01-04-2006, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by b00st
i'm going to try and max out my setup on k04. squeeze every once of power out of this setup.

next on list is ATP TESTPIPE
and that power gasket.

maybe some of those Turbo Inlet Hose from APR and the one that goes into the Intake Mani. and i think thats about it...besides researching a nitrous setup.

I have heard the power gasket warps over time. Im going with the Evo heatshield.

Evolution Sports (http://www.evolutionsports.com/productDetail.cfm?catID=89&ProductID=861)

b00st
01-04-2006, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by BranCKY3
Wow... mine's fully spooled by 2200 at the most. In 5th it will be at 18psi by 2100. Get that testpipe in there, and an intake helps a lot too!

yeah i can push the pedal in and it will see 18-21psi...but that doesn't mean i'm actually getting it that much boost that quick. look at the dyno charts...that'll show you were the k04 hits and reaches full boost.

cuz i pin the gas for a second and make the needle show 18-21psi...doesn't mean i'm actually boosting at that level...otherwise yes...mine shows the same. i'm mean there is turbo lag, its gotta build up. i hear it spool at 2k on the money...and makes a nice whistle...different than a spool up sound by the time your in full pressure.

check out a k04 dyno chart...doesn't matter what file they are running. full pressure is somewhere in the late 2ks.

b00st
01-04-2006, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by 01'A41.8T
I have heard the power gasket warps over time. Im going with the Evo heatshield.

Evolution Sports (http://www.evolutionsports.com/productDetail.cfm?catID=89&ProductID=861)



i've heard only 2 bad cases and nothing otherwise. but that one looks nice too. eitherway...i'ma run with one of those.

i like that evo one though...i'll do that.

BranCKY3
01-04-2006, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by b00st
yeah i can push the pedal in and it will see 18-21psi...but that doesn't mean i'm actually getting it that much boost that quick. look at the dyno charts...that'll show you were the k04 hits and reaches full boost.

cuz i pin the gas for a second and make the needle show 18-21psi...doesn't mean i'm actually boosting at that level...otherwise yes...mine shows the same. i'm mean there is turbo lag, its gotta build up. i hear it spool at 2k on the money...and makes a nice whistle...different than a spool up sound by the time your in full pressure.

check out a k04 dyno chart...doesn't matter what file they are running. full pressure is somewhere in the late 2ks.

Then what are you saying the boost gauge shows? Without the exhaust, testpipe and intake, my gauge wouldn't show 18psi until 2600-2700.

bitterchild
01-04-2006, 06:22 PM
i wouldn't pay $100 for that... all these overpriced mods here and there are adding up to the cost of a real setup

b00st
01-04-2006, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by BranCKY3
Then what are you saying the boost gauge shows? Without the exhaust, testpipe and intake, my gauge wouldn't show 18psi until 2600-2700.

i have an EVO intake...but full spool by 2100-2200?
with testpipe it will only bring it down maybe 300-400rpms tops.
so about 2300-2400 for full spool with testpipe. thats the only part i'm missing. i wasn't aware you were running a testpipe. so i guess i could see that but 2100 still seems kind early for full spool.

turbos are pedal sensitive....so you can push it all the way in and it can show 18psi real quick but lets say your supercharged...you have to work your way through the powerband before you see that kind of PSI. do you follow? i can flick my pedal and make it hit 10 maybe 15 psi but that doesn't mean i'm actually boost at that level...i will in a few seconds but

look at this dyno...to me this means he hit full boost at 3293rpms with his k04. thats as early has he can hit full boost. correct me if i'm wrong.

http://www.audigeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=479.0

b00st
01-04-2006, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by bitterchild
i wouldn't pay $100 for that... all these overpriced mods here and there are adding up to the cost of a real setup

i understand your point...i just don't see value in re-doing a new turbo setup in an old car. I will buy a 04 B6 and try something new. APR, ATP/REVO 2871r...something. we'll see. but buying little trinkets like gasket and testpipe i think are fine. i don't really want to invest in the car. its paid...i can save to invest in the new car...hence my lean on the nitrous thing. cheap fix and can deliver the power if it can be done properly. going over with a shop about DP and Wet kits and the install on them. i'll toss a few hundo to the B5 but i'm not going to go redo the kit. the car has passed now and its time for a new project. hopefully....i never have to get rid of my car...I will be buying a daily driver sooner or later. with bodykit and suspension...the car will never make it through another chicago winter. so daily driver is needed. and then i will look for an 04 B6 1.8TQMS. my brother is already leasing his so i can actually buy his if needed.

BranCKY3
01-04-2006, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by b00st
i have an EVO intake...but full spool by 2100-2200?
with testpipe it will only bring it down maybe 300-400rpms tops.
so about 2300-2400 for full spool with testpipe. thats the only part i'm missing. i wasn't aware you were running a testpipe. so i guess i could see that but 2100 still seems kind early for full spool.

turbos are pedal sensitive....so you can push it all the way in and it can show 18psi real quick but lets say your supercharged...you have to work your way through the powerband before you see that kind of PSI. do you follow? i can flick my pedal and make it hit 10 maybe 15 psi but that doesn't mean i'm actually boost at that level...i will in a few seconds but

look at this dyno...to me this means he hit full boost at 3293rpms with his k04. thats as early has he can hit full boost. correct me if i'm wrong.

http://www.audigeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=479.0

No, he hit peak torque at 3293 rpms. Just because the turbo is at full boost doesn't mean you're making full power.

Plus it looks like he didnt go WOT until after 2000 rpms.

bitterchild
01-04-2006, 08:52 PM
don't look at n2o as a "cheap fix". That's when you get disappointing results

01'A41.8T
01-04-2006, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by bitterchild
i wouldn't pay $100 for that... all these overpriced mods here and there are adding up to the cost of a real setup

True the cost does add up to that of a "real" setup but that cost is mostly all at once. This can all be done over time.

AvantSpeed
01-04-2006, 11:09 PM
Having a K04, I can tell you a FMIC is really a necessity. The only reason I don't have one now is because the winter coolness. With a k04 you will heat soak the stocker after one full sprint through a couple of gears.

I've seen the EVO and the racetec units. The EVO is nice but you need to remove the air pump on DBW which I'm not willing to do for smog reasons. The racetec unit for the money seems like the best bet. I've been emailing them like crazy for install photos and I have a bunch. The turbo pipe doesn't look bad at all and the install looks pretty straight foward. Is ther a place I can upload a pic of the turbo side pipe? I just can't see spending the extra $600 on the racewerks unit when they are both bar/plate units.

This is from the racetec site. Can you tell my where its fugly? Also any close up of the Racewerks for comparison?
http://www.racetec-us.com/home_files/racetecb5sped.JPG

Burntaudi
01-05-2006, 06:12 AM
AvantSpeed, Jus t wanted to clear something up here. Are you talking about the EVOMS FMIC? Well you don't remove the air pump you move it.

94jedi
01-05-2006, 07:23 AM
I have to admit, a pc-16 ko4 w/ a 50-75 nitrous shot done right is a pretty intriguing idea. The TQ would be insane. And there might just be enough hp to hang w/ a real setup.

Of course, if you're spending that much $$$ why not just go BT?

Ah.... this is the dilema I'm wrestling with right now. I've paid for a k04, just waiting for it to be shipped and I have a few $$$ which might just be enough to get me a clutch and the full pc-16 setup (inj/FMIC/adj FPR/custom exhaust). I know could break 13's with that setup but I also know that I would want more. Will a small nitrous shot give me that extra oomph I'm looking for? That is the question. I know my eventual path will lead me to a t3/t4 or a 3071 but I just don't have the $$ for that right now or within the next few months. the only reason I'm even contemplating a k04/pc-16 is because I know it's a fun street setup- to a point.

Also, I know that if I just save up a little more $$$ that I'll be in BT territory but it just seems like it's a never ending money pit to have a BT. Which is all relative because this whole game we play is nothing but a money pit anyway.
There's also the added danger with a BT to snap a rod or break things. Now, I know my wife would shit a brick if I blew my motor. Of course, with nitrous, there's the same danger.

I don't know what to do. [confused]

AvantSpeed
01-05-2006, 07:44 AM
Burntaudi- thanks for the clarification. Where do you move it to? was it easy?

94jedi- I with you on the ever growing cost of getting a K04 setup right and just getting a bigger turbo. If I keep my K04, i'm probably going to need the TT inj. and TT Maf with upgraded software. But when I look at the overall cost the ATP kit would be with in range for the money.

94jedi
01-05-2006, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by AvantSpeed
Burntaudi- thanks for the clarification. Where do you move it to? was it easy?

94jedi- I with you on the ever growing cost of getting a K04 setup right and just getting a bigger turbo. If I keep my K04, i'm probably going to need the TT inj. and TT Maf with upgraded software. But when I look at the overall cost the ATP kit would be with in range for the money.

wait a sec...which ATP kit? you're not talking baout the elims are you?

bitterchild
01-05-2006, 08:05 AM
racetec had their piping going under the smog pump. It was pushing against the lower tray due to the fact that it was lower than it. I suppose this would only be an issue for the smog pump equipped owner's.

*The sport model that Evolution Racewerks is developing for the B5 is NOT $1600.*

That is a competition unit that is currently only available for B6s. The sport unit will use the factory bumper support and cost significantly less. That said, I'm not here to sell anyone on the ER fmic. If you want the racetec unit, buy it and it will be nice to have az members to compare with the ER.

Burntaudi
01-05-2006, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by AvantSpeed
Burntaudi- thanks for the clarification. Where do you move it to? was it easy?



I don't have a secondary air pump on my year...but I've heard on the newer cars it needs to be relocated.

b00st
01-05-2006, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by bitterchild
don't look at n2o as a "cheap fix". That's when you get disappointing results

i know what you mean...its still cheaper than turbo/manifold/software. thats what I was comparing it to.. and if i needed to do a new DP/Exhaust/IC PIPING on the turbo side.

bitterchild
01-05-2006, 12:17 PM
DP/exhaust stays the same. Testpipe is different.

hot IC piping only has to be shortened a little. Same 2" outlet.

Don't put t28 sized turbos on a pedestal. They're relatively small and not that expensive to utilize.

b00st
01-05-2006, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by 94jedi
I have to admit, a pc-16 ko4 w/ a 50-75 nitrous shot done right is a pretty intriguing idea. The TQ would be insane. And there might just be enough hp to hang w/ a real setup.

Of course, if you're spending that much $$$ why not just go BT?

Ah.... this is the dilema I'm wrestling with right now. I've paid for a k04, just waiting for it to be shipped and I have a few $$$ which might just be enough to get me a clutch and the full pc-16 setup (inj/FMIC/adj FPR/custom exhaust). I know could break 13's with that setup but I also know that I would want more. Will a small nitrous shot give me that extra oomph I'm looking for? That is the question. I know my eventual path will lead me to a t3/t4 or a 3071 but I just don't have the $$ for that right now or within the next few months. the only reason I'm even contemplating a k04/pc-16 is because I know it's a fun street setup- to a point.

Also, I know that if I just save up a little more $$$ that I'll be in BT territory but it just seems like it's a never ending money pit to have a BT. Which is all relative because this whole game we play is nothing but a money pit anyway.
There's also the added danger with a BT to snap a rod or break things. Now, I know my wife would shit a brick if I blew my motor. Of course, with nitrous, there's the same danger.

I don't know what to do. [confused]

i understand and this is the same game i'm in.
for me since its been a slow upgrade process...i'm already where you are at. PC16, FMIC, Milltek Exhaust/DP, Injectors, FPR, etc. So I'm already invested...yeah it costs the same as the ATP/Revo GTRS. but I got an FMIC with my turbo. I wouldn't worry about the internals on an AEB or really any of the B5s with a k04. figure the k04 at max is dishing out 215awhp. a 50-75 shot of nitrous is really like running a stage III kit.

so for me my only thing left is to add a shot of nitrous if possible....but scraping my whole thing for something new isn't smart for this old car. i think its time for me to save for a B6. they seem to be making decent power for cheap. though done right...i'd still be investing in 6k. but i don't care. for my B5...BT seems like more work than i'm willing to do. i guess if i had my daily driver back...i would. but i don't so...sinking more money into this oldie is not smart. Nitrous does have dangers...no doubt, so if not familiar...you should have pros do it. I've only done 2 nitrous installs and both have been wet kits. Direct Port kits are something I would have the pros do. i can get a wet kit for $375 bucks. thats not a big investment. redoing a BT setup will be...it would be smarter for me to buy a B6 and attempt on that.

b00st
01-05-2006, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by BranCKY3
No, he hit peak torque at 3293 rpms. Just because the turbo is at full boost doesn't mean you're making full power.

Plus it looks like he didnt go WOT until after 2000 rpms.

i've always associated full boost with the max tq hit. to me that says the manifold is seeing full pressure from the turbo and cranking out the TQ and continues after but these turbos aren't the kind that hold all the way though. so full boost is hit and peaked out at 3293. or am i thinking of it wrong.

tony what say you?

bitterchild
01-05-2006, 01:36 PM
boost is pressure. Full boost is simply full pressure. Basically when the wastegate begins to bleed off excess exhaust to hold the set pressure. The torque curve is more related to the engine design's maximum efficiency.

215awhp from a k04 is highly unlikely. depending on your math that's around 285bhp. Your car may run strong and seem faster b/c of your street racing but it a k04-015 will simply not flow that much. You have to understand it's the same as a k03. It's really not the middleground between a k03 and t28.

b00st
01-05-2006, 01:49 PM
so tony,

would full boost equate with max torque then? so in the scenario i used above where max torque was achieve at 3293...would that mean he hit full boost at 3293?

and I know what you mean about the k04. i just threw that number out there to show that a k04 even if it was making 215awhp and a 50 shot or 75 shot not nitrous isn't that bad. its the timing i'm worried about. i think edlebrocks standard by the book using nitrous application is 3 degree retard for a 75 shot. and i'm running an aggressive timing chip...so i dunno how well that will work. i've seen 75 shots of nitrous work fine with no retardation what so ever...no engine problem over a year of having it on. could he be lucky? maybe? or maybe its just fine and he has enough gas. it is a wet kit.

at any rate i use 20-22% DT loss for quattro. I dunno what everyone else uses. was there ever a definitive answer as to the DT loss. or a standard that we should be using. i know a k03 is a k04 and i know its definitely not middle ground between k03 and T28. thats why I always refer to it as a street racing setup. in the 1/4 mile...i would most likely lose all day long against these cars. fastest time i've seen is 13.8 on k04, he had a high flow cat and i didn't...also a clutch. and i don't. Only thing I don't remember is if that was a J31 or PC16. I think it was a J31 car....maybe even mmart.

94jedi
01-05-2006, 01:50 PM
The housings are the same on the k03 and k04. it's the comp. wheel and the turbine that make the difference.

Still, I'd like to see a ndbw quattro a4 dyno w/ a k04/pc-16 setup. There's a guy who just dyno'd his car on the vortex. it's a 99.5 and it only makes 177awhp and 177 awt but that's on the basic AWE GIAC k04 sw.

b00st
01-05-2006, 02:11 PM
standard k04 file is weak sauce.

i just got off the phone with CPT. They run nitrous setups on S4s. They have a shop S4 with 400awhp....via AWE's k04 kit with mani and fueling. he suggested the same thing that he is doing to his S4....which was AQUAMIST water injection.

They just did a4 and it gain 20 at the wheels with water injection (supporting mods unknown). he said that is total safe where as the nitrous setup is not. no guarantee compared to the water injection at least. he said that i could probably get away with a 50 shot tops without ill affect...but wouldn't push it any further...especially with an aggressive file like the PC16. so i could try a 35-50 shot or go aquamist...or just stop. BT is not an option for this car that I do know. aquamist's cheapest kit was 500 up to 1200.

he said with the nitrous...you would gain on the top end since that is what i was looking for...he said you run the risk of over spinning the impeller. he said a 50 shot would be tops to run.

bitterchild
01-05-2006, 04:04 PM
you're not listening, full boost is when you get the maximum boost pressure that your boost control will allow. This is for all intensive purposes the gauge reading. You are building boost off load b/c the turbo is small. Full boost may in fact be at 2k, not the torque peak at 3200rpm. The torque peak is a factor of mainly the engine volumetric efficiency at that rpm. If you had a huge turbo that produced no boost at 3200rpm then the torque peak would be higher up when the turbo is actually making boost. If that doesn't make sense then you have to call me.

As for n2o, I will oversimplyfy. Nitrous is to spool turbos, not help them do their job.

b00st
01-05-2006, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by bitterchild
you're not listening, full boost is when you get the maximum boost pressure that your boost control will allow. This is for all intensive purposes the gauge reading. You are building boost off load b/c the turbo is small. Full boost may in fact be at 2k, not the torque peak at 3200rpm. The torque peak is a factor of mainly the engine volumetric efficiency at that rpm. If you had a huge turbo that produced no boost at 3200rpm then the torque peak would be higher up when the turbo is actually making boost. If that doesn't make sense then you have to call me.

As for n2o, I will oversimplyfy. Nitrous is to spool turbos, not help them do their job.

k...i'm listening now...i get it. [:D]

as for the nitrous....i know people use it to do that. hence the overspinning of the impeller on my tiny turbo. i want to use it for HP in the higher RPMS which he said would be OK and it would do that....it would just need to be a small shot 35-50 shot tops.

94jedi
01-06-2006, 06:28 AM
b00st , the problem still remains that even a strong k04 won't make more than 220awhp on our cars. Plus with nitrous, a DP setup is gonna cost. Then you need all the gadgets...bottle warmer, remote opener, gauge etc. You're looking at the the cost of a cheap stg 3 just to get nitrous. plus w/ a stg 3 you can always swap out the turbo for more power. you've already got a FMIC. I'm not against the idea of a k04/pc-16, I'm just playing devils advocate so I can get the pro's and cons of both sides. To be honest, it sounds like you run into alot of pretty serious cars where you live. I think if I were in your shoe's I'd go w/ a piece together stg 3. It can be done for relatively cheap. Plus you can sell most of your k04/pc-16 gear to ofset some of the cost. That way you won't need nitrous. And besides, if your wife is anything like mine, she'd have a fit if I blew the engine using nitrous.

alen
01-06-2006, 07:49 AM
I bought my entire setup (turbo, J31 stuff, soft, FMIC, TP) for much much less than ATP's eliminator kits. In actuality, anybody can get really good deals if you're willing to wait, search the classifieds and jump on great deals. Powerwise, I will be in a similar range as the GT2x setup but with at least $1400 saved over it. Nice street setup for slightly over a grand :D

b00st
01-06-2006, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by 94jedi
b00st , the problem still remains that even a strong k04 won't make more than 220awhp on our cars. Plus with nitrous, a DP setup is gonna cost. Then you need all the gadgets...bottle warmer, remote opener, gauge etc. You're looking at the the cost of a cheap stg 3 just to get nitrous. plus w/ a stg 3 you can always swap out the turbo for more power. you've already got a FMIC. I'm not against the idea of a k04/pc-16, I'm just playing devils advocate so I can get the pro's and cons of both sides. To be honest, it sounds like you run into alot of pretty serious cars where you live. I think if I were in your shoe's I'd go w/ a piece together stg 3. It can be done for relatively cheap. Plus you can sell most of your k04/pc-16 gear to ofset some of the cost. That way you won't need nitrous. And besides, if your wife is anything like mine, she'd have a fit if I blew the engine using nitrous.

i enjoy a little devils advocate play...thats what helps these discussions and ideas.

well they said to run a wet kit. DP wasn't necessary for my 35-50 shot. i can get a wet kit for 350. you don't really need all the other gadgets...just a nitrous gauge. i've never run them on other cars. that fire/ice thing for the nitrous bottle is cool. screw remote opener....if your going out cruising....before you start your car you open the bottle. I hear you on the stage 3....believe me...this has been a long battle in my brain. the reason why i haven't...the car has some issues...prolly minor...i will vag this weekend...actually tomorrow and check out my MAF in particular.
the real issue is why sink another 5k into an old car...its paid. or even 3k when i can save for a new. its 6.5yrs old....with 72k. not sure its a wise decision. i guess if the motor was rebuilt with internals forged, etc. i wouldn't care...but that is way too much. i wouldn't spend it. this is an open debate so bring on the ideas and thoughts.

yes my wife would kill me if she new that nitrous blew my motor. and she is not clueless to this scene or nitrous. her father runs his 73 Nova and is into old muscle cars. We put nitrous on his ride this past summer.

94jedi
01-06-2006, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by b00st
i enjoy a little devils advocate play...thats what helps these discussions and ideas.

well they said to run a wet kit. DP wasn't necessary for my 35-50 shot. i can get a wet kit for 350. you don't really need all the other gadgets...just a nitrous gauge. i've never run them on other cars. that fire/ice thing for the nitrous bottle is cool. screw remote opener....if your going out cruising....before you start your car you open the bottle. I hear you on the stage 3....believe me...this has been a long battle in my brain. the reason why i haven't...the car has some issues...prolly minor...i will vag this weekend...actually tomorrow and check out my MAF in particular.
the real issue is why sink another 5k into an old car...its paid. or even 3k when i can save for a new. its 6.5yrs old....with 72k. not sure its a wise decision. i guess if the motor was rebuilt with internals forged, etc. i wouldn't care...but that is way too much. i wouldn't spend it. this is an open debate so bring on the ideas and thoughts.

yes my wife would kill me if she new that nitrous blew my motor. and she is not clueless to this scene or nitrous. her father runs his 73 Nova and is into old muscle cars. We put nitrous on his ride this past summer.

I get what your saying about the age of the car. min is a 98.5 so I'm even 1 year older than yours. my wife knows the score too. She knows nitrous is dangerous if not done right. plus she's been w/ me since my last nitrous experience. IMHO, I think a decent stg 3 setup can be done for less than 3k. You've already got the FMIC. Granted not a bar plate but it's better than the stock SMIC. Hows you're clutch? That's the other factor. To be honest, I don't think you or I will be happy with a pc-16 k04 on a 50 shot. I keep going back and forth in my head about this. I think the difference between you and I is that I have alot less disposable income than you and that I'm also keeping this car until the wheels fall off lol.

you know...the math is simple...if you sold off you're pc/16 as a "kit", you could pretty easily do stg3 for not much more than you'd pay for a nice nitrous setup installed. plus you'd be faster...and w/ a bigger turbo, you've got alot more room for improvement.

bitterchild
01-06-2006, 10:36 AM
kev knows what he wants, no need to remind him ;)

everytime I see that sig I remember I should pick up a ps2

b00st
01-06-2006, 01:01 PM
thats my drifting fully modded S4...which for some reason is faster than my RS4 fully modded. that s4 does 9.XX in the 1/4 mile in the game...the RS4 is low 10s IIRC. I haven't played since the game came out.

b00st
01-06-2006, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by 94jedi
I get what your saying about the age of the car. min is a 98.5 so I'm even 1 year older than yours. my wife knows the score too. She knows nitrous is dangerous if not done right. plus she's been w/ me since my last nitrous experience. IMHO, I think a decent stg 3 setup can be done for less than 3k. You've already got the FMIC. Granted not a bar plate but it's better than the stock SMIC. Hows you're clutch? That's the other factor. To be honest, I don't think you or I will be happy with a pc-16 k04 on a 50 shot. I keep going back and forth in my head about this. I think the difference between you and I is that I have alot less disposable income than you and that I'm also keeping this car until the wheels fall off lol.

you know...the math is simple...if you sold off you're pc/16 as a "kit", you could pretty easily do stg3 for not much more than you'd pay for a nice nitrous setup installed. plus you'd be faster...and w/ a bigger turbo, you've got alot more room for improvement.

Yeah I would sell my K04 PC16 combo and offset some of the stage 3 cost. on second thought...i think my EVOMS is a Bar/Plate design. I still don't think its as nice of piece as tony's and prolly not as big but it does the trick. My stoopid heavy rims really do have a factor on my car. when i took my back seats out and had my stock 16s on....the car really felt light...but man thats just ghetto looking. had to try it for a night though. stage 3 is prolly what i will do. I will prolly dyno my car on PC16...i wish i had a testpipe before i did it...my stock cat is a big restriction but oh well...i never wanted to play around with O2 sensors....it would be a PITA and emissions here is strict in IL at least chicago land area. at any rate I am working with Tony to come up with my stage 3 solution which would use a 28rs as the center piece.

there is just this bell that goes off saying that i shouldn't invest in this old hunker. at least to me its an old hunker. i'll have renewed faith after my Rieger Body Kit goes on and suspension. i dunno. i guess if i can find a decent winter car. I would be will to drop 3k into it and offset it by selling my stuff.

I do need a clutch and it will be a Southbend OFE SS. but i want stock flywheel. i'm working with tony. this march is my big THREE - 0 birthday party. and april is our anniversary so i will be spending big cash those 2 months. so this would be a summer consideration. i need to work out the details now. but i'm sure between me & tony we will come up with a solution that works. i'm putting my confidence in him for this.

94jedi
01-06-2006, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by b00st
Yeah I would sell my K04 PC16 combo and offset some of the stage 3 cost. on second thought...i think my EVOMS is a Bar/Plate design. I still don't think its as nice of piece as tony's and prolly not as big but it does the trick. My stoopid heavy rims really do have a factor on my car. when i took my back seats out and had my stock 16s on....the car really felt light...but man thats just ghetto looking. had to try it for a night though. stage 3 is prolly what i will do. I will prolly dyno my car on PC16...i wish i had a testpipe before i did it...my stock cat is a big restriction but oh well...i never wanted to play around with O2 sensors....it would be a PITA and emissions here is strict in IL at least chicago land area. at any rate I am working with Tony to come up with my stage 3 solution which would use a 28rs as the center piece.

there is just this bell that goes off saying that i shouldn't invest in this old hunker. at least to me its an old hunker. i'll have renewed faith after my Rieger Body Kit goes on and suspension. i dunno. i guess if i can find a decent winter car. I would be will to drop 3k into it and offset it by selling my stuff.

I do need a clutch and it will be a Southbend OFE SS. but i want stock flywheel. i'm working with tony. this march is my big THREE - 0 birthday party. and april is our anniversary so i will be spending big cash those 2 months. so this would be a summer consideration. i need to work out the details now. but i'm sure between me & tony we will come up with a solution that works. i'm putting my confidence in him for this.

nice, Tony is my drug pusher as well. If you really want to try a test pipe out before going stg 3 let tony know. we've got a solution for you.

I think you're making the right choice. 28RS is a beast. you're FMIC should be fine if it's a bar plate. It should at least support the 28RS. good choice my friend. The only thing holding me back is my lack of funds for this hobby which doesn't seem to be an issue for you. Oh and that bell going going off is just your wife in the background. Pick up a Louis Vuitton purse for her and that bell will stop ringing....works like a charm....at least for a little while.

b00st
01-06-2006, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by 94jedi
nice, Tony is my drug pusher as well. If you really want to try a test pipe out before going stg 3 let tony know. we've got a solution for you.

I think you're making the right choice. 28RS is a beast. you're FMIC should be fine if it's a bar plate. It should at least support the 28RS. good choice my friend. The only thing holding me back is my lack of funds for this hobby which doesn't seem to be an issue for you. Oh and that bell going going off is just your wife in the background. Pick up a Louis Vuitton purse for her and that bell will stop ringing....works like a charm....at least for a little while.

its too late on the Louis V's....i got her all the sizes. ( had a hook up...thats all i can say). (that includes the change purse and wallet.) i feel bad though when i drop that kind of money and then i get on her case about buying stupid shit cuz i know to her this is stupid shit. i spend 3k and she doesn't and I don't think its fair, i don't think i would OK her to spend 3k-4k on clothes or whatever it is she has to have. i always save up for a rainy day...except for me...its always raining...damn mod bug. i got it bad...i always need to be buying something at least once a month for the ride. then after stage 3...i'ma want a C/F hood and C/F deck lid except i would paint the deck lid.

yeah tony's my pusher. he's got me hooked. and sounds like it will work.

bitterchild
01-06-2006, 02:46 PM
hey, I don't push anything. You ask, I tune. I'm not some unscrupulous business entity or anything.

94jedi
01-06-2006, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by bitterchild
hey, I don't push anything. You ask, I tune. I'm not some unscrupulous business entity or anything.

haha...yeah you know we're both joking right?[:D] I brought this on myself....I've always had the mod bug....ever since my first car. Heck I've been planning mods on my(imaginary) 1969 Mach 1 since I was maybe 7 years old.

b00st
01-06-2006, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by bitterchild
hey, I don't push anything. You ask, I tune. I'm not some unscrupulous business entity or anything.

no your not...i'm a junky and your a supplier [:D]
i'm need a big needle for this one!!!!!!!