knocking/ticking noise?

[flyfishing]

Anyone ever get a knocking or ticking noise? About twice now in the last couple months, I get a ticking noise from the engine under heavy acceleration. It goes away immediately. I'll run codes tomorrow, but no CEL. Last time I heard it and ran codes later, I saw no codes. I use only Shell 93 octane. Anyone ever get this?

[flyfishing]

ok i am getting more ticking/knocking. vcds shows no faults nor codes.

hmmmm i need to do the ecm update so might as well take car in for warranty.

[Frenetic]

High pressure fuel pump/rail?

I really have no idea lol, but I know ticking in a direct-injected lexus was usually attributed to the HPFP, although it was/is noticeable even at idle.

Sounds more like a fast clattering.

[RAF_S7]

The injectors click when operating, and obviously click louder/faster the more fuel is being pumped through them.

If there are no codes, and it's not missing a beat I'd not be overly concerned just yet.[drive]

[flyfishing]

Ahhh thanks. I only hear it on WOT. I will bring it up when car goes in for ECM update anyway. Thanks.

[Hauk]

I also notice this occasionally after flashing EPL Stage 1 on my 13 S6.

[flyfishing]

I also notice this occasionally after flashing EPL Stage 1 on my 13 S6.

do you have any issues? did you ask EPL about this

[jsmonet]

I get a little popcorn but it sounds like injectors.

Only codes I keep getting are exhaust valve a and it's related pressure code.


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[flyfishing]

Ok I guess mine sounds like popcorn too and I get the exhaust codes too bc of aftermarket exhausts


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[Hauk]

I've had the EPL tune for about a year and have put over 15000 miles on the car since. During that time I have noticed some other tune related irregularities or things that I never noticed before the tune.

1. EPC light has come on two or three times on longer trips, VCDS scan reveals misfires.
2. On partial throttle (50-60%) I sometimes notice a weird pulsing or unsteady engine feel that goes away at WOT.
3. The worst thing was getting code p1335 Engine torque monitor 2 Control limit exceeded. This causes a total loss of all power and feels like you hit a wall of water. This happened twice and is really scary when merging on a highway. It goes away once you restart the car.
4. Car would start and immediately die. This has happened twice. After a few start attempts it would remain running with no other issues.

My understanding is that issue 3 and 4 used to also happen with APR tunes as well but it was corrected. Ive asked EPL and was told that its a rare issue and hard to get data on, but they would look into it.

What have your experiences been? Any similar issues?

[flyfishing]

I have had 1 appear with no loss of power when I ran at 140 mph. I haven't had the rest. Mine is. 2013. Perhaps it's older and has more work on the tune.


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[GolfGL]

I've had the EPL tune for about a year and have put over 15000 miles on the car since. During that time I have noticed some other tune related irregularities or things that I never noticed before the tune.

1. EPC light has come on two or three times on longer trips, VCDS scan reveals misfires.
2. On partial throttle (50-60%) I sometimes notice a weird pulsing or unsteady engine feel that goes away at WOT.
3. The worst thing was getting code p1335 Engine torque monitor 2 Control limit exceeded. This causes a total loss of all power and feels like you hit a wall of water. This happened twice and is really scary when merging on a highway. It goes away once you restart the car.
4. Car would start and immediately die. This has happened twice. After a few start attempts it would remain running with no other issues.

My understanding is that issue 3 and 4 used to also happen with APR tunes as well but it was corrected. Ive asked EPL and was told that its a rare issue and hard to get data on, but they would look into it.

What have your experiences been? Any similar issues?

Yes, I've had these also on my EPL tune.

1. EPC light has come on two or three times on longer trips, VCDS scan reveals misfires.
Happens quite often, boost regulation limit not reached is the error. Misfire count is pretty high, I've checked after each drive and it does seem high, although not quite enough to trigger a CEL.

2. On partial throttle (50-60%) I sometimes notice a weird pulsing or unsteady engine feel that goes away at WOT.
I hear a noise too, sounds like knock or pre-ignition.

3. The worst thing was getting code p1335 Engine torque monitor 2 Control limit exceeded. This causes a total loss of all power and feels like you hit a wall of water. This happened twice and is really scary when merging on a highway. It goes away once you restart the car.
I've had this happen once. EPL said it could happen on stock tune too and I've seen at least one case on a forum where the car was stock.

4. Car would start and immediately die. This has happened twice. After a few start attempts it would remain running with no other issues.
Never happened to me.

I also noticed pre-ignition/knock sounds from the engine (sounds like marbles in a can) and my indy mechanic heard the noise and advised me to talk to EPL. I've since upgraded to Ultra 94 fuel but the noise is still there at times.

This is the reason why I was excited about the recent 21F2 service campaign (there is even a 21F2 update completed sticker underneath the hood lol) because I thought it might be related to at least some of these issues. From the forums, the majority of users who have above issues are 2013 and the campaign correlates with that. That is the reason I've reached out to Chris at EPL a couple times now asking if they would provide an updated tune based on the new ECM software but the last I heard was "I'll talk to Tony" and that the priority is not to optimize old tunes but to work on new. I hope they get to it soon, there are enough 2013 owners to make it worthwhile.

[Hauk]

Yes, I've had these also on my EPL tune.


1. EPC light has come on two or three times on longer trips, VCDS scan reveals misfires.
Happens quite often, boost regulation limit not reached is the error. Misfire count is pretty high, I've checked after each drive and it does seem high, although not quite enough to trigger a CEL.

2. On partial throttle (50-60%) I sometimes notice a weird pulsing or unsteady engine feel that goes away at WOT.
I hear a noise too, sounds like knock or pre-ignition.

3. The worst thing was getting code p1335 Engine torque monitor 2 Control limit exceeded. This causes a total loss of all power and feels like you hit a wall of water. This happened twice and is really scary when merging on a highway. It goes away once you restart the car.
I've had this happen once. EPL said it could happen on stock tune too and I've seen at least one case on a forum where the car was stock.

4. Car would start and immediately die. This has happened twice. After a few start attempts it would remain running with no other issues.
Never happened to me.

I also noticed pre-ignition/knock sounds from the engine (sounds like marbles in a can) and my indy mechanic heard the noise and advised me to talk to EPL. I've since upgraded to Ultra 94 fuel but the noise is still there at times.

This is the reason why I was excited about the recent 21F2 service campaign (there is even a 21F2 update completed sticker underneath the hood lol) because I thought it might be related to at least some of these issues. From the forums, the majority of users who have above issues are 2013 and the campaign correlates with that. That is the reason I've reached out to Chris at EPL a couple times now asking if they would provide an updated tune based on the new ECM software but the last I heard was "I'll talk to Tony" and that the priority is not to optimize old tunes but to work on new. I hope they get to it soon, there are enough 2013 owners to make it worthwhile.

My main concern, is that if the tune is causing preignition or knocking we may be playing roulette with our expensive engines. I understand the priority from a business perspective to not invest time in projects that don't yield any returns, but at the same time if engines get damaged from pre detonation, that erodes a lot of confidence.

If Audi went thru the trouble of issuing 21F2 ecm recall for these cars, surely they recognized a potentially serious issue.

[fatherdeath]

2. On partial throttle (50-60%) I sometimes notice a weird pulsing or unsteady engine feel that goes away at WOT.


I too have had the EPL for a year and I get similar issue with the pulsing throttle but it goes away with a bit more gas...if any one knows of a fix let me know

[flyfishing]

OK I heard the marble sound again today.

I emailed chris and he told me to do logging which I will and send back to him.

[pez81]

OK I heard the marble sound again today.

I emailed chris and he told me to do logging which I will and send back to him.

Hope this isn't anything serious but what you're describing sounds like knock. I'd flash back to stock asap first and see if it stops. It's possibly not related to the tune but just to rule that out might be a good idea. Have you changed your gas recently could be bad fuel I guess.
Has EPL come back to you?

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry I re read your post EPL said send some logs.

[flyfishing]

I sent some logs yesterday. I use shell or Exxon 93 octane only. I am going to dealer soon and will flash back next week.

Are these knock or other issues seen in APR?

[highPSI-S4]

I too have had the EPL for a year and I get similar issue with the pulsing throttle but it goes away with a bit more gas...if any one knows of a fix let me know

I think I have had this, it's more like a hesitation though. But it's always around 3200-3900rpm in 3rd or 4th gear it always does it.I can def duplicate it in Manual sport mode.

I thought it was my Tune but I no longer have EPL tune and I still have the issue. No codes.

[fatherdeath]

i dont think its the tune because the car does this on the stock tune as well...it may be fuel pressure is what it feels like to me

[Djpeaksd]

I think I have had this, it's more like a hesitation though. But it's always around 3200-3900rpm in 3rd or 4th gear it always does it.I can def duplicate it in Manual sport mode.

I thought it was my Tune but I no longer have EPL tune and I still have the issue. No codes.

I have this too however I think it is from the TCU tune. Maybe we are talking about different things but I feel mine in all gears between the same RPM. So I ran just the ECU tune with stock TCU tune for a while and it went away. The problem with that is I wasn't getting 21 psi. I guess you have to have both the ECU and TCU flashed to get full boost.

To me it feels like a hesitation.

[flyfishing]

anyone else besides myself and golfgl get marble sound?

[Ze_Nardo6]

I've had the EPL tune for about a year and have put over 15000 miles on the car since. During that time I have noticed some other tune related irregularities or things that I never noticed before the tune.

1. EPC light has come on two or three times on longer trips, VCDS scan reveals misfires.
2. On partial throttle (50-60%) I sometimes notice a weird pulsing or unsteady engine feel that goes away at WOT.
3. The worst thing was getting code p1335 Engine torque monitor 2 Control limit exceeded. This causes a total loss of all power and feels like you hit a wall of water. This happened twice and is really scary when merging on a highway. It goes away once you restart the car.
4. Car would start and immediately die. This has happened twice. After a few start attempts it would remain running with no other issues.

My understanding is that issue 3 and 4 used to also happen with APR tunes as well but it was corrected. Ive asked EPL and was told that its a rare issue and hard to get data on, but they would look into it.

What have your experiences been? Any similar issues?

3.0T or 4.0T?

[flyfishing]

I've sent some logs and all my logs show no knocking. Prob is I can't accurately reproduce this sound and it is unfeasible to log continuously.

I'm gonna try different gas station even though I routinely fill up at Shell.

GolfGL, how often do you get this marble noise?

[GolfGL]

I've sent some logs and all my logs show no knocking. Prob is I can't accurately reproduce this sound and it is unfeasible to log continuously.

I'm gonna try different gas station even though I routinely fill up at Shell.

GolfGL, how often do you get this marble noise?
Sometimes at WOT , other times at high-load conditions, eg acceleration from low RPM in high-gear.

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[Tony@EPL]

Hello all - What you're hearing isn't knock, Im confident of this. (please careful using that term please, it can be very detrimental to both your engine and my companies reputation =X). We are investigating if these reports are tune related, but so far have not been able to replicate/experience this phenomenon in person.

I reviewed flyfishing's logs... the only ignition retard he has is during decel (normal). If this car was any were near actual legitimate knock retard values would be through the roof across the board.

For what its worth I HAVE heard the 4.0t knock with a unknown tune file on it before we flashed over. Logged request ignition advance values were 5-7 degree more then what we found produced maximum torque.... or no where near where our calibrations are set for.

[Hauk]

3.0T or 4.0T?

4.0t.

The phenomena is strange. I'm glad to hear from Tony that it doesn't appear to be knock. A few days ago, I flashed my car back to oem files in order to prepare for a service visit at the dealership and to perform the 21f2 service campaign. Over the past few days I have been trying hard to replicate the marble sound and unsteady pusating feel under partial throttle but I have not been able to on the stock files, and other than the lack of power the car seems perfect. On stage 1 93 files, it seems to typically occur around 4k rpm and half throttle, and seems to be easier to create on longer drives after the cruise was set for an hour or two. Unfortunately it seems to happen just infrequently enough to make an attempt logging this unfeasible.

[flyfishing]

This is a hypothetical question, but IF IT WAS KNOCK, SURELY A CEL would occur right? I have not seen any CEL ever in regards to this noise so if a knock does cause a CEL, then it is not knock.

[GolfGL]

Hello all - What you're hearing isn't knock, Im confident of this. (please careful using that term please, it can be very detrimental to both your engine and my companies reputation =X). We are investigating if these reports are tune related, but so far have not been able to replicate/experience this phenomenon in person.

I reviewed flyfishing's logs... the only ignition retard he has is during decel (normal). If this car was any were near actual legitimate knock retard values would be through the roof across the board.

For what its worth I HAVE heard the 4.0t knock with a unknown tune file on it before we flashed over. Logged request ignition advance values were 5-7 degree more then what we found produced maximum torque.... or no where near where our calibrations are set for.
Tony, thanks for chiming in. Not my intention to discredit your companies reputation. There are a few of us with 2013s who have this issue. I've PMed back and forth with these users and we seem to have the same overall issues. I took my car to a very reputable mechanic in the Toronto area, ex-Audi tech, and he was 100% certain that we were hearing knock. It was his recommendation to downgrade my tune to 91 based on the Shell fuel I was using. EPL was great and offered up the 91 tune for me. I've since switched to Ultra 94 but i still hear that noise occasionally,. With the windows down and driving close to a wall, the sound is quite loud. Amazingly, I haven't been able to replicate that sound since the 21F2 service even after switching back to your tune. I think they only changed the o-rings on the turbo coolant lines in terms of hardware so I don't understand how the car has been pulling strong for a few weeks now. Before, it would adapt and get faster gradually after the tune, then it would become sluggish after a few drives and finally throw a underboost code. If the software (ecm 0009) fixed some inherent issue with the stock engine, then we would be undoing that with the EPL flash right (ecm 0008)? Is the factory capable of flashing certain additional functions within the ECM that you are not accessing? Because of the unexplained sounds, I would feel infinitely better with a 0009 tune.

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[Tony@EPL]

Tony, thanks for chiming in. Not my intention to discredit your companies reputation. There are a few of us with 2013s who have this issue. I've PMed back and forth with these users and we seem to have the same overall issues. I took my car to a very reputable mechanic in the Toronto area, ex-Audi tech, and he was 100% certain that we were hearing knock. It was his recommendation to downgrade my tune to 91 based on the Shell fuel I was using. EPL was great and offered up the 91 tune for me. I've since switched to Ultra 94 but i still hear that noise occasionally,. With the windows down and driving close to a wall, the sound is quite loud. Amazingly, I haven't been able to replicate that sound since the 21F2 service even after switching back to your tune. I think they only changed the o-rings on the turbo coolant lines in terms of hardware so I don't understand how the car has been pulling strong for a few weeks now. Before, it would adapt and get faster gradually after the tune, then it would become sluggish after a few drives and finally throw a underboost code. If the software (ecm 0009) fixed some inherent issue with the stock engine, then we would be undoing that with the EPL flash right (ecm 0008)? Is the factory capable of flashing certain additional functions within the ECM that you are not accessing? Because of the unexplained sounds, I would feel infinitely better with a 0009 tune.

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The 0009 was mostly an emissions update with some changes that will make OEM cars slower at part throttle (and based on what I see, possibly "choppier due to larger torque request changes based on throttle input). File 0008 still appears to be the winner. OEM calibration revisions rarely = better. In some cases 0001 are the BEST because its has the most time into fine calibration.

I really disagree you are hearing knock. If it were knock.... i would be occurring EVERY TIME you were putting the car in the same conditions, not just occasionally.

[Tidefan73]

I've had the EPL tune for about a year and have put over 15000 miles on the car since. During that time I have noticed some other tune related irregularities or things that I never noticed before the tune.

1. EPC light has come on two or three times on longer trips, VCDS scan reveals misfires.
2. On partial throttle (50-60%) I sometimes notice a weird pulsing or unsteady engine feel that goes away at WOT.
3. The worst thing was getting code p1335 Engine torque monitor 2 Control limit exceeded. This causes a total loss of all power and feels like you hit a wall of water. This happened twice and is really scary when merging on a highway. It goes away once you restart the car.
4. Car would start and immediately die. This has happened twice. After a few start attempts it would remain running with no other issues.

My understanding is that issue 3 and 4 used to also happen with APR tunes as well but it was corrected. Ive asked EPL and was told that its a rare issue and hard to get data on, but they would look into it.

What have your experiences been? Any similar issues?

I have this, everyday, when I use CC. I've flashed back to stock before and the problem goes away.

[Tony@EPL]

I have this, everyday, when I use CC. I've flashed back to stock before and the problem goes away.

We have a development car coming in in 2-3 weeks. This is high on my list of things to replicate and address.

Stay tuned.

[Tidefan73]

We have a development car coming in in 2-3 weeks. This is high on my list of things to replicate and address.

Stay tuned.

Chris mentioned that a few weeks ago when I asked about it.
Glad you've got a car to test with. Looking forward to any update!!

Thanks, Tony!

[flyfishing]

If knock occurs, does it automatically trigger a CEL?

[GolfGL]

If knock occurs, does it automatically trigger a CEL?
Not talking about EPL here, but I've heard of tunes on other platforms that desensitize knock detection. Your Ecm would be set to a higher threshold before it triggers a cel.

My car is still pulling strong, but getting that metallic marble-like sounds again. Is the EPL development mentioned supposed to correct that?

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[flyfishing]

I have had my tune removed for 5 days now. The car makes NO marble noises. I will see if it comes back after ECM update and tune.

[Frenetic]

Googling marbles, engine, sound in various forms all tends to bring up a common element: bad engine knock/detonation.

Usually knock sensors will detect it and change timing in a futile attempt to save the engine.

[flyfishing]

Has anyone used both EPL and APR?

Anyone with experience with both know if one tune has it vs the other or both have it?

[pez81]

I get this too. After driving for a few weeks on the tune it needs flashing again as it feels sluggish. Not EPL btw
Does anyone think our ECU's learn against the tune and try to correct increased boost timing etc.

My car at the minute feels more like stock power. I even switched back to the stock tune and couldn't tell much of a difference.

[Hauk]

I have had my tune removed for 5 days now. The car makes NO marble noises. I will see if it comes back after ECM update and tune.

I flashed back to stock a couple weeks ago to perform the 21f2 campaign, and everything is perfect with no strange noises or marble sounds. My car actually feels pretty strong after the 21f2 update, and I'm not sure I want to flash back to stage 1 until this gets addressed. Hopefully Tony will find a fix with the development car that's coming to them soon.

[pez81]

I flashed back to stock a couple weeks ago to perform the 21f2 campaign, and everything is perfect with no strange noises or marble sounds. My car actually feels pretty strong after the 21f2 update, and I'm not sure I want to flash back to stage 1 until this gets addressed. Hopefully Tony will find a fix with the development car that's coming to them soon.

Great to hear from you man. How many people is this effecting as I've heard very little on the forums about this until very lately. Are there APR users too, stock or just tuned?

[ashaikh88]

Yes, I've had these also on my EPL tune.

1. EPC light has come on two or three times on longer trips, VCDS scan reveals misfires.
Happens quite often, boost regulation limit not reached is the error. Misfire count is pretty high, I've checked after each drive and it does seem high, although not quite enough to trigger a CEL.

2. On partial throttle (50-60%) I sometimes notice a weird pulsing or unsteady engine feel that goes away at WOT.
I hear a noise too, sounds like knock or pre-ignition.

3. The worst thing was getting code p1335 Engine torque monitor 2 Control limit exceeded. This causes a total loss of all power and feels like you hit a wall of water. This happened twice and is really scary when merging on a highway. It goes away once you restart the car.
I've had this happen once. EPL said it could happen on stock tune too and I've seen at least one case on a forum where the car was stock.

4. Car would start and immediately die. This has happened twice. After a few start attempts it would remain running with no other issues.
Never happened to me.

I also noticed pre-ignition/knock sounds from the engine (sounds like marbles in a can) and my indy mechanic heard the noise and advised me to talk to EPL. I've since upgraded to Ultra 94 fuel but the noise is still there at times.

This is the reason why I was excited about the recent 21F2 service campaign (there is even a 21F2 update completed sticker underneath the hood lol) because I thought it might be related to at least some of these issues. From the forums, the majority of users who have above issues are 2013 and the campaign correlates with that. That is the reason I've reached out to Chris at EPL a couple times now asking if they would provide an updated tune based on the new ECM software but the last I heard was "I'll talk to Tony" and that the priority is not to optimize old tunes but to work on new. I hope they get to it soon, there are enough 2013 owners to make it worthwhile.


Same issues here with EPL and yes number 3 is very scary and dangerous specially in traffic. I think we should talk to EPL about fixing this. Cause frankly speaking I always am scared with WOT that this might happen again and ill loose all power and will have to stop in the side, dodging traffic with no acceleration power.

[Harpo_*]

Yes, I've had these also on my EPL tune.

1. EPC light has come on two or three times on longer trips, VCDS scan reveals misfires.
Happens quite often, boost regulation limit not reached is the error. Misfire count is pretty high, I've checked after each drive and it does seem high, although not quite enough to trigger a CEL.

2. On partial throttle (50-60%) I sometimes notice a weird pulsing or unsteady engine feel that goes away at WOT.
I hear a noise too, sounds like knock or pre-ignition.

3. The worst thing was getting code p1335 Engine torque monitor 2 Control limit exceeded. This causes a total loss of all power and feels like you hit a wall of water. This happened twice and is really scary when merging on a highway. It goes away once you restart the car.
I've had this happen once. EPL said it could happen on stock tune too and I've seen at least one case on a forum where the car was stock.

4. Car would start and immediately die. This has happened twice. After a few start attempts it would remain running with no other issues.
Never happened to me.

I also noticed pre-ignition/knock sounds from the engine (sounds like marbles in a can) and my indy mechanic heard the noise and advised me to talk to EPL. I've since upgraded to Ultra 94 fuel but the noise is still there at times.

This is the reason why I was excited about the recent 21F2 service campaign (there is even a 21F2 update completed sticker underneath the hood lol) because I thought it might be related to at least some of these issues. From the forums, the majority of users who have above issues are 2013 and the campaign correlates with that. That is the reason I've reached out to Chris at EPL a couple times now asking if they would provide an updated tune based on the new ECM software but the last I heard was "I'll talk to Tony" and that the priority is not to optimize old tunes but to work on new. I hope they get to it soon, there are enough 2013 owners to make it worthwhile.
Regarding the marble in a can sound, I had this in my S6 recently was a hall sensor fault. Audi replaced it under warranty and it's gone away. It would "flick" from on side of the engine to the other like a marble was loose inside the pipework.

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[GolfGL]

Regarding the marble in a can sound, I had this in my S6 recently was a hall sensor fault. Audi replaced it under warranty and it's gone away. It would "flick" from on side of the engine to the other like a marble was loose inside the pipework.

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That's useful info, thank you. Was it the noise that prompted you to take it in or did it throw a code?

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[MadAboutCars]

I get this too. After driving for a few weeks on the tune it needs flashing again as it feels sluggish. Not EPL btw
Does anyone think our ECU's learn against the tune and try to correct increased boost timing etc.

My car at the minute feels more like stock power. I even switched back to the stock tune and couldn't tell much of a difference.
My Unitronic tune is like that. I used to reset the engine faults (not a reflash), or do a reset all DCT's, to restore the power. Then one time I was forced to take it on a long trip, just as it was losing power, and by the end of the trip the power was back again. So now I just keep driving it through the drop off in power. The more you floor it the sooner the power seems to return.

[pez81]

My Unitronic tune is like that. I used to reset the engine faults (not a reflash), or do a reset all DCT's, to restore the power. Then one time I was forced to take it on a long trip, just as it was losing power, and by the end of the trip the power was back again. So now I just keep driving it through the drop off in power. The more you floor it the sooner the power seems to return.

That's really interesting. I started think it was all in my head. But I've cleared everything and it back to full power.

[schaNYC]

That's really interesting. I started think it was all in my head. But I've cleared everything and it back to full power.

Are you unitronic tuned as well or epl?

[flyfishing]

Regarding the marble in a can sound, I had this in my S6 recently was a hall sensor fault. Audi replaced it under warranty and it's gone away. It would "flick" from on side of the engine to the other like a marble was loose inside the pipework.

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Whoa I have heard my marble in right side and left. What does a hall sensor do?


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[pez81]

Are you unitronic tuned as well or epl?

No the tune i have at the minute is Revo. Every so often car feels flat so I clear codes switch maps, go through a few engine start stop cycles and it's back. I can even see boost down by like 4 psi

[Hauk]

Whoa I have heard my marble in right side and left. What does a hall sensor do?


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Hall sensors are a type of magnetic resonance detector. In the case of our cars they are used to detect the camshaft position. I wonder if a bad camshaft position sensor could lead to an improper ignition advancement, causing knock on a stock car, which may explain why someone with a stock car and a bad cam position sensor would also experience the marble sound.

[Frenetic]

I wonder if there's a way for them to put back in the normal knock sensors with the tune.

I don't see why you have to risk or compromise your engine. If they can't tune it without knocking, then forget it, but peeling back the knock sensors to a point you can actually hear it is bad imo.

Most engine knocking/detonation is mild and practically imperceptible and the sensors will sense even that and retard ignition. Lexus was notorious for this when during higher speed turns in the LS, oil would get starved out of parts of the engine and that slapping and vibration was enough for the knock sensors to retard timing. You couldn't hear it, but you can feel it try and protect the engine from what it thought was knocking.

But to have detonation that loud isn't very healthy.

[Harpo_*]

Whoa I have heard my marble in right side and left. What does a hall sensor do?


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In all honesty I have no clue [emoji23] I took mine into audi and the deemed it the hall sensor was faulty and that was causing the noise.

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[Tony@EPL]

I wonder if there's a way for them to put back in the normal knock sensors with the tune.

I don't see why you have to risk or compromise your engine. If they can't tune it without knocking, then forget it, but peeling back the knock sensors to a point you can actually hear it is bad imo.

Most engine knocking/detonation is mild and practically imperceptible and the sensors will sense even that and retard ignition. Lexus was notorious for this when during higher speed turns in the LS, oil would get starved out of parts of the engine and that slapping and vibration was enough for the knock sensors to retard timing. You couldn't hear it, but you can feel it try and protect the engine from what it thought was knocking.

But to have detonation that loud isn't very healthy.

I have review logs from the ordinal poster again. The car is NOT detonating. He has ZERO knock correction, stock knock sensor calibration and is running a reasonable amount of timing and good fuel. Im sorry a few people are hearing "noises" but we have sold literally 100's of tune at this point. If it were knock, it would be a wide spread issue.

[Yeoman]

Folks experiencing hesitation at part throttle and/or the knocking/marbling sound should scan to see if they have a camshaft position sensor fault.. it's likely the hall sensor going bad.

I agree, stop blaming this on knock/detonation. Those days are long over with modern detection systems.

[Yeoman]

Hall sensors are a type of magnetic resonance detector. In the case of our cars they are used to detect the camshaft position. I wonder if a bad camshaft position sensor could lead to an improper ignition advancement, causing knock on a stock car, which may explain why someone with a stock car and a bad cam position sensor would also experience the marble sound.

A bad sensor can also account for the hesitation some are experiencing at part throttle.

[flyfishing]

I'll take my car to dealership and mention hall sensor and report back as to what happens.

I'll take everyone's word that it isn't knock. For a lack of better terms, that's all I had references of when I heard this noise because it was what I remembered it to be when I was a kid. This hall sensor makes sense -- I had some PMs about people having their hall sensors replaced and issues going away. If this is the case, then awesome and the answer for anyone having these issues.

[Frenetic]

Isn't the hall sensor part of the knock/detonation system? If that is malfunctioning then it would allow the car to knock/detonate and that sound is probably knock.

Also, someone else mentioned that some tunes purposely rolls back some or all of the knock system. No idea how legitimate that is.

[flyfishing]

I will also add that my logs were when the car was NOT producing noise. The problem is the noise is intermittent and cannot be accurately reproduced and it is unfeasible to log continuously 24/7. I will say there has been no sound during stock tune. I will drop my car off and report back.

[Tony@EPL]

I will also add that my logs were when the car was NOT producing noise. The problem is the noise is intermittent and cannot be accurately reproduced and it is unfeasible to log continuously 24/7. I will say there has been no sound during stock tune. I will drop my car off and report back.

Again, the tune doesn't change day to day once its adapted. It reads from stored memory and is finite... if it were a tune issue causing "detonation" it would be there 100% of the time.

Im not ruling out that this COULD (unlikely) be related to the tune. Calling it knock/detonation just isn't accurate. You have a intermittent rattle that not detonation that needs to identified.

[flyfishing]

Again, the tune doesn't change day to day once its adapted. It reads from stored memory and is finite... if it were a tune issue causing "detonation" it would be there 100% of the time.

OK thanks for the clarification. That makes sense.

[Harpo_*]

I have review logs from the ordinal poster again. The car is NOT detonating. He has ZERO knock correction, stock knock sensor calibration and is running a reasonable amount of timing and good fuel. Im sorry a few people are hearing "noises" but we have sold literally 100's of tune at this point. If it were knock, it would be a wide spread issue.
Just to be clear to anyone else who may have interpreted my post that way, I'm NOT running EPL but am considering it.

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[Hauk]

Again, the tune doesn't change day to day once its adapted. It reads from stored memory and is finite... if it were a tune issue causing "detonation" it would be there 100% of the time.

Im not ruling out that this COULD (unlikely) be related to the tune. Calling it knock/detonation just isn't accurate. You have a intermittent rattle that not detonation that needs to identified.

It may not be knock, but it is definitely appears to be directly correlated with the tune. It's been a couple weeks since I've flashed back to oem and still no sign of the sound or the pulsating loss of power at partial throttle under load and I've been trying hard to replicate it. A good starting point to try and replicate for logs it is to be in M4 at around 65 MPH or 3500 rpm and then hold half throttle till you reach about 4200 rpm. Hopefully you can log this happening so we can figure this out, as I do miss the tune.

[Harpo_*]

This is exactly the same with another case with a dte tuning box.

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[GolfGL]

Regarding the marble in a can sound, I had this in my S6 recently was a hall sensor fault. Audi replaced it under warranty and it's gone away. It would "flick" from on side of the engine to the other like a marble was loose inside the pipework.

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I am going to get this part changed out by my mechanic. Any chance you could dig up a PN from your invoice? Is it the camshaft position sensor or crankshaft position sensor? Thanks!

[flyfishing]

What is the cost of this hall sensor change out? How do they detect this failure if there is no fault code?

[Harpo_*]

I'll contact them tomorrow and see what I can get out if them. I litterally dropped it off, emailed them the intermittent knocking noise and it was sorted.

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[Hauk]

We have a development car coming in in 2-3 weeks. This is high on my list of things to replicate and address.

Stay tuned.

Any updates on these issues or discoveries from the development car?

[ryanlada]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/779044-Turbo-wastegate-valve-rattle

This seems plausible. The stock boost schedule is maybe less aggressive with the opening and closing of the wastegate (it's open more of the time) and therefore less (or no) rattle?

[flyfishing]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/779044-Turbo-wastegate-valve-rattle

This seems plausible. The stock boost schedule is maybe less aggressive with the opening and closing of the wastegate (it's open more of the time) and therefore less (or no) rattle?


WHOA THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE NOISE. What does that wastegate valve do? Is that hard to replace?

[ryanlada]

Regulates boost level. I don't think its a problem necessarily. The plate has to be a bit loose so it can align and close flush.
It's the metal flap (that makes the noise) that covers the exhaust bypass for the turbine.

https://goo.gl/images/CrGbEn

This photo is from a different turbo but the concept is the same, the round flap to the left is the piece that may be making the noise. Since the turbos are on top and at the back of the engine (near the cabin) the noise may be more noticeable.
Someone with more knowledge on how the wastegate is programmed will need to chime in, but it could be that this metal cover is opening and closing quickly to regulate the boost level is making the noise.

[GolfGL]

That sounds like the noise I was trying to describe too. So not knocking and not camshaft position sensor. Similar issue on the BMW N54 turbos was a big deal no?

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[ichi d]

Any solution for this yet? Can anyone update?

[flyfishing]

Either this was due to epl tune which I changed to apr and it went away OR I had an axle that was loose that my shop said could have made this noise (axle blew and I put new one in).

I think it was bc if epl tune personally


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[ichi d]

Either this was due to epl tune which I changed to apr and it went away OR I had an axle that was loose that my shop said could have made this noise (axle blew and I put new one in).

I think it was bc if epl tune personally


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ya i think it is too. smh.