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jeffs
12-27-2005, 06:18 PM
Finally got my car into a shop I think I can trust in the middle of nowhere East Texas. Mechanic says he thinks the clutch is toast, so now I need to quickly decide what I want and get it shipped up there. I've been searching the forums, but still can't decide what it is I need.

The max power I ever expect to put in this thing is a K04. I do some "light" racing with friends and enjoy spirited driving, but never really plan on seeing a drag strip or anything. It might be autocrossed if I pick up another car in a couple of years.

So I'm looking at the TZ series of Southbend Clutches. Good choice? Anything else I can look at?

Car is also getting timing belt and control arms taken care of. I can't wait to get this bill! Timing belt install will be $300, clutch will be $550; not sure about control arms yet. I'll be providing the parts, seems pretty fair to me.

SeanF
12-27-2005, 06:35 PM
that mechanic has no idea what hes getting himself into if hes only charging $300 for the timing belt... either that or hes trying to get you in bed...

Yuikio
12-27-2005, 06:39 PM
^^^Exactly.

Southbends get good reviews, but I've never seen the TZ series talked about here that I can remember.

Starting
12-27-2005, 07:19 PM
I think you should get another opinion because a clutch does not just go bad and should not affect the pedal like you stated.

jeffs
12-27-2005, 07:31 PM
He's a VW mechanic that's been in my hometown for 30+ years. I know the timing belt seems low, but he says he does them on the 1.8's all the time. There were tons of VW's in the parking lot, so I dunno. It does sound too good to be true, but you have to remeber, this is bumfuck Texas we're talking about here. This guy came recommended from my parent's friend who has an A6. It's one of two Euro garages in the entire area. I really wanted to transport the car to Austin, but at $3 a mile, it's not an option.

When I originally talked to him on the phone, he said there was no way it was my clutch. He's the one who said we should try to bleed the slave cylinder. When we finally got the car the shop, he got it to go into gear, drove it, and said he really thought the clutch was history. The whole car stinks like burned clutch as well. He said he's almost never seen a clutch go out this early.

I'd love to get a 2nd opinion, but my options are limited. I'm 5 hours away from the car now.

18T
12-27-2005, 11:27 PM
ECS Stage 2. GREAT KIT!!

94jedi
12-28-2005, 06:56 AM
Well, since I(we) just did my TB yesterday(thanks to bitterchild for all the help[up] ) I can tell you $300 is either one helluva deal or he has no clue that the A4's have the 1.8t longitudinally mounted unlike the transverse vw's. Clutch labor should be between $500 and $600 so he's giving you a fair price on that. For labor only as you stated, this is a good deal on the TB and a *fair* price on the clutch.

jeffs
12-28-2005, 09:20 AM
Finally found an Audi board for that area of Texas, and the people on there think the prices I was quoted were "average". If anyone needs cheap work done, tow your car to East Texas. ;)

andy@sbc
12-29-2005, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Yuikio
^^^Exactly.

Southbends get good reviews, but I've never seen the TZ series talked about here that I can remember.
The TZ is a good stage 2 setup but not very popular because the OFE stage 3 is only $55 more and leaves room for more add-ons. The TZ has some good points that should be mentioned. It can't be beat for stock like feel and it will wear for a very long time provided it dosn't get slipped too much.

mike-2ptzero
12-29-2005, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by andy@sbc
The TZ is a good stage 2 setup but not very popular because the OFE stage 3 is only $55 more and leaves room for more add-ons. The TZ has some good points that should be mentioned. It can't be beat for stock like feel and it will wear for a very long time provided it dosn't get slipped too much.

Andy, I have driven 2 of the bt cars from Eurocode that IIRC have your clutch kits on them. They held up fine but what do you have that can hold up to 500WHP doing 7k rpm clutch drops at the drags? At this point I am running a custom 4800 lbs pressure plate with a 6 puck unsprung disk(broke the sprung disk during a launch) with a 15 lbs flywheel. Just looking to see which way I might have to go if this clutch cant hold the power. Problem is that I am the only A4 at this power level at this point.

jones3000
12-29-2005, 01:38 PM
I got TB done for $250. $300 is not bad. but then again I"m in a 2.8.

jeffs
12-29-2005, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by andy@sbc
The TZ is a good stage 2 setup but not very popular because the OFE stage 3 is only $55 more and leaves room for more add-ons. The TZ has some good points that should be mentioned. It can't be beat for stock like feel and it will wear for a very long time provided it dosn't get slipped too much.

I wound up ordering the OFE.

andy@sbc
01-09-2006, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by mike-2ptzero
Andy, I have driven 2 of the bt cars from Eurocode that IIRC have your clutch kits on them. They held up fine but what do you have that can hold up to 500WHP doing 7k rpm clutch drops at the drags? At this point I am running a custom 4800 lbs pressure plate with a 6 puck unsprung disk(broke the sprung disk during a launch) with a 15 lbs flywheel. Just looking to see which way I might have to go if this clutch cant hold the power. Problem is that I am the only A4 at this power level at this point.
Mike- Let me know how the clutch holds up that your using.

When new HP levels are reached, the whole process is experimental. The best way to get a clutch that will operate problem free is to analyze the where the failiers occure in the system currently being used then upgrade.

I would be glad to custom build a clutch system for anybody who is interested in reaching new power levels [wrench]

goldenchild
01-09-2006, 08:57 AM
mike how much r u puttin down? there is someone on vwvortex that claimed 715 whp with a dyno sheet. theres alot of guys runin some serious shit on that board

mike-2ptzero
01-09-2006, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by goldenchild
mike how much r u puttin down? there is someone on vwvortex that claimed 715 whp with a dyno sheet. theres alot of guys runin some serious shit on that board


The guy you are talking about was on a engine dyno, motor wasn't even in the car at the time and his readings were at the crank. He was also running 40psi but I dont think he is going to be running that setup all the time. I think he was just seeing how much he could get out of the car with different turbo setups and working on the stand alone tuning.

I have put down as high as 434 whp. With the stand alone I am looking to put down 500+ whp.

BTW remember a awd car is going to have much more stress on a clutch vs a fwd car that can spin the tires much easier.



Andy- Well at this point it is holding up but just not sure how well its going to hold after I reach the 500 whp mark and get some tires that actually give me traction off the line. I am already using a dual diaphram setup that is rated at 4800 lbs, just wish there were triple plate setups for our cars. I am sure there are companies out there that can custom build them but I haven't looked for any yet and wasn't sure if you guys do that type of setups.

andy@sbc
01-11-2006, 12:41 PM
Andy- Well at this point it is holding up but just not sure how well its going to hold after I reach the 500 whp mark and get some tires that actually give me traction off the line. I am already using a dual diaphram setup that is rated at 4800 lbs, just wish there were triple plate setups for our cars. I am sure there are companies out there that can custom build them but I haven't looked for any yet and wasn't sure if you guys do that type of setups.
Sorry we don't build triple disc clutches.
Our philosophy on clutches in general is to use friction materials that have a very high coefficient of friction and smooth engagement qualities to achieve the necessary torque range. Some clutch companies use high plate load and struggle to find a combination that will hold high torque without too sharp of an engagement. Thus sacrificing torque.
Only in extreme cases do we combine the two because of the stress on the drivetrain, crank bearings, ect.
4800 lbs seems excessive to me.

mike-2ptzero
01-11-2006, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by andy@sbc
Sorry we don't build triple disc clutches.
Our philosophy on clutches in general is to use friction materials that have a very high coefficient of friction and smooth engagement qualities to achieve the necessary torque range. Some clutch companies use high plate load and struggle to find a combination that will hold high torque without too sharp of an engagement. Thus sacrificing torque.
Only in extreme cases do we combine the two because of the stress on the drivetrain, crank bearings, ect.
4800 lbs seems excessive to me.



Well not much else will hold a 7k rpm launch at the drags while making 500+ hp. This is why I use it. I had problems with 4000 lbs setups holding. Odd thing is that I have driven this setup in very heavy LA traffic without any problems, but others have said that it is a very on/off feel but thats because it grabs right off the floor. Just have to understand that push the power limits of the A4, which I have been doing since I bought the car back in 2000. Was even the R&D car for the very first dbw clutch setup because the stock clutch couldn't hold the power I was pulling out of the stock K03.