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TJHUB
12-21-2005, 08:22 AM
If you remember my last post regarding upgrading my Tip transmission with Level 10 products, I now have some new information.

I am going to purchase a Level 10 upgraded valve body for $800.00 and have it installed sometime mid to late January. I have had a very difficult time finding someone that I trust to install it for me. I've been told the install is fairly straight forward and would take anywhere from 2 to 4 hours. 2 hours if you know what you're doing, 4 if you don't. The Audi dealers have it listed in just under 3 hours. I won't waste your time complaining about the difficulties I've been having finding an installer, but I will tell you that there are some real idiots out there running businesses.

I spoke to an independant guy that comes highly recommended by everyone he works with and I've used him in the past and agree. He's a really good guy and he has been doing jack of all trades car repair for nearly 30 years. He said the valve body would be no big deal to do as he has done many in the past (not Audi of course). He wanted me to get any info I could such as diagrams and torque specs. This lead me to the original manufacturer of the transmission, ZF. On ZF's website I found this:

http://www.zf-group.com/pdf/5HP19FLA.pdf

The interesting thing is the noted input torque capacity: 420 Nm (~310 Ft/Lb). I don't know if this is correct or a typo on ZF's part, but this is not the general information around the internet (310 Nm or ~228 Ft/Lb).

Regardless, my mind is made up and I'm moving forward with the purchase of the valve body. I hope all goes well. I'm really looking forward to the shifting performance, it's supposed to be fast and solid.[up]

9744RR
12-21-2005, 08:57 AM
I checked the ZF site and I'm hoping that this is not a typo.

Let us all know how it goes with your upgrade. Hope it goes well! I have a B6 Tip and I've been doing some research on our tranny's. There is a guy who has a Big Turbo on his B6 tip and the tip is still stock and so far he hasn't had any problems, but we'll see.

Good luck.

Raddue
12-21-2005, 11:55 AM
Good luck, keep us posted.

TJHUB
12-21-2005, 12:17 PM
I finally found out how the bad info was derived. There are two Tiptronic transmissions available for the A4's:

5HP19FL = A4 (1.8, 2.8), A6 (2.8), A8 (3.7) Input Torque = 310 Nm (~ 228 Ft/Lb)

5HP19FLA = A4 (Quattro 1.8, 2.8), S4 (Quattro 2.7), A6 (Quattro 2.7, 2.8, 3.0 ), Allroad (Quattro 2.7) Input Torque = 420 Nm (~310 Ft/Lb)

So there you have it. Frontrac has the weak Tip and Quattro has the good one. Thank goodness I have a Quattro!

Howard Hughes
12-21-2005, 12:49 PM
So is this what it takes to upgrade the TIP tranny, Before it was the torque converter? now it's the valve body?

Also what type of results are you supposed to get with the upgraded valve body?.....Keep the info flowing, thanks.

cbass
12-21-2005, 12:54 PM
The torque converter and the valve body do two different things.

Keep us posted on what you find out and how the upgrade goes.

Good Info!! Thanks

TJHUB
12-21-2005, 01:10 PM
Howard Hughes: There is a lot of misinformation on these forums. I'm not saying I have the correct answers, but I think it's better info than most have had.

To answer your question, read this:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75431

4ingDrive
12-21-2005, 05:57 PM
Thanks for the info. Keep it up!

4ingDrive
12-21-2005, 05:59 PM
Here's another one.

http://www.jpat.co.uk/jpat_pdfs/ZF%20Acrobat%20files/ZF%20%205HP19FLA.pdf

OutkastSL
12-21-2005, 11:43 PM
wow....i've been to that page while i was doing my research before and i've never seen that the 5HP19FL was for frontrak and 5HP19FLA was for quattro. thanks tj for pointing that out.

just to let you know, my mechanic, whom is the service manage for an audi dealership nearby is willing to do the valve body upgrade for $200 at his house [:D]. he did my t/b and w/p for $250 and when i got the parts from ecstuning.

Howard Hughes
12-22-2005, 12:00 AM
Hey have you guys ever talked to 2Bennett racing about TIP upgrades??

TJHUB
12-22-2005, 06:49 AM
Steve: You're a lucky bastard getting everything for *free* like you do. I wish I was connected!

I finally got a quote for installing the VB from Blaufergnugen after waiting a week. He thought 2-3 hours ($120-$180) plus fluid. I'm most likey going to use the other mechanic so I can help. He's only $40.00/hr. Are you thinking about upgrading your VB?

*EDIT* Steve, I just saw your response to my other thread. It's great to hear that your keeping the B5 a little longer. I was going to give up on the group buy thing because Sam at Level 10 is such a PITA. He never responds to email, you have to get the guy on the phone. It seems like there are enough guys to make the group buy happen (5 minimum). If you are really interested, I'll make the effort to get the group buy going.

Howard Hughes: I never contacted 2Bennett as it seems like they do high level upgrades at very high prices. They list an upgraded Tip on their site for $6,800.00. That's man level stuff. I only qualify for boy level stuff (like $800.00 valve bodies). If you find something different out, let us know.

TJHUB
12-22-2005, 07:34 AM
I spoke with Sam again this morning. He has seen my threads and confirms that my information is correct. I am going to setup the group buy this morning. Please watch for it and sign up!

TJHUB
12-22-2005, 08:07 AM
The group buy is setup in the Group Buy forum...

4ingDrive
12-22-2005, 06:20 PM
I wasn't going to be ready til spring for it.

tontod
12-24-2005, 08:55 PM
I live in MA near Boston, if I were to buy the valve body, I'm wondering where I could get it installed. I should try to find a transmission shop that specializes in working on european cars?

TJHUB
12-24-2005, 09:33 PM
Even Audi or VW dealers are cheap enough. Just take it somewhere you can trust is reputable.

AB18
12-24-2005, 09:44 PM
I wonder how faster the tips are going to shifts? Any ideas? No doubt a sweet upgrade.

OutkastSL
12-24-2005, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by AB18
I wonder how faster the tips are going to shifts? Any ideas? No doubt a sweet upgrade.

i don't know, but me and terry should find out soon.

blacka4
12-25-2005, 05:55 AM
yes the 5HP19FL is the front trac and the 5HP19FLA is Quattro..I have talked to ZF about this and they stated that the spart parts manual linked above WAS WRONG in With the Input torque rating on the 5HP19. It is not 420nm but 310nm. There was a miscommunitcation between the US division of ZF and the German division and the numbers got all messed up.

I'm not going to argue over this with anyone but I Spent almost 6 months researching this and my tech artical about the Tip was removed and will be reposted once anth gets the rest of AZ completed


http://www.zf.com/ZF_ProductDB/user/mediaFiles?levelTypeName=Products&levelID=12518&mediaFileName=5hp19fla.pdf


click that link and you will see if you scroll down right on ZF's website you will see the 5HP19FLA listed first and the input tq rating of 310nm

TJHUB
12-25-2005, 07:37 PM
If you are correct that really sucks. All the more reason for me to do the VB upgrade.

*EDIT*

This doesn't make sense to me. If your information is correct and the 5HP19FLA is only good for 228 Ft/Lbs, why on earth would they use it in the S4 which in '00 had a rating of 258 Ft/Lbs? I don't doubt you were given this information, but that just doesn't add up.

OutkastSL
12-25-2005, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by TJHUB
If you are correct that really sucks. All the more reason for me to do the VB upgrade.

exactly

TJHUB
12-25-2005, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by OutkastSL
exactly

You said it!

blacka4
12-25-2005, 08:03 PM
I'm not saying the upgrade isn't worth it because it is worth it. Do the upgrade, me personally am not going to sink anymore money into my A4 because I am looking at a newer or used audi in a year. outkast and I have talked about this for months and both have come to the conclusion that the only differences in the tip between the A4 and S4 was the torque converter. this alone would allow the lower tq rating tip take the tq of the V6 with no problems

i'm just saying that ZF doesn't even know what the fuck they sold to Audi for the transmissions...you talk to one person you get one answer and if you call back an hour later to ZF and talk to someone different you will get yet a different answer.

I'm not saying I am correct nor I am saying that your not correct but what I am saying that is some poor unlucky soul needs to beat the shit out of a tip and blow it up so we know the truth because we obviously are not going to get it from ZF or Audi

OutkastSL
12-25-2005, 08:23 PM
let's see, i'm currently on a pc16 setup with my car and i believe that a lot of people were able to see 250hp/300lbs tq at the crank. if this is true, my tip tranny is currently handling the tq, but i don't know for how much longer it'll handle it. we can definately be certain that a tip'd 1.8t can handle a pc16 (maybe j31).

TJHUB
12-25-2005, 08:58 PM
blacka4: I hear you. It's really is a shame that the info is so messed up. It just doesn't make sense to me that Audi would put transmissions in cars that would be underrated. It's possible though. It really doesn't matter to me about the input torque rating. My complaint about the Tip is how it shifts under high load. I'm really looking to fix that issue. The increased torque capability is a bonus.

TJHUB
12-27-2005, 12:00 PM
Well, I think blacka4 is correct. I found some posts from mid 2004 on a Passat forum that confirms the incorrect data on the ZF 5HP19FLA. One of the guys contacted ZF who confirmed the incorrect data. The FLA has the same max torque input of 310 Nm (~228 Ft/Lbs.). It's a little hard to believe that Audi is putting these transmissions on 2.7T's with 258 Ft/Lbs of torque. They should be embarrassed.

I also have finalized the group buy. I have a code word (I feel like James Bond) that needs to be used. PM me for the info. The group buy ends 1-31-06.

OutkastSL
12-27-2005, 09:40 PM
sweet, 007, i'll pm you for the code word. lol

blacka4
12-28-2005, 06:06 AM
yeah you guys let me know how that works...I'm just going to buy a car with a biturbo V8 in it

TJHUB
12-28-2005, 07:15 AM
Well gentlemen, mine is on order. I couldn't wait until the end of January. Impatient should have been my middle name. Sam is including me in the group buy, so one down. He wants me to get it installed and post my opinions on the forums...good or bad. I'd say he's pretty confident about his product. And, I can say a he's a really decent guy to work with.

The valve body should be here around the end of next week or early the week after. My installer will be ready to go, so it won't take long to get up and running.

Be jealous![:D]

igo380
12-28-2005, 09:18 AM
Do you know if the B7 tip is the same as the B5?

TJHUB
12-28-2005, 10:11 AM
No I do not. I would try a search. I don't know if they have the same problems or not. You could also contact Level 10 and ask.

blacka4
12-28-2005, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by igo380
Do you know if the B7 tip is the same as the B5?

umm If I remember correctly the B7 has the 6 speed Tip. If audi did what I think they did that would be the same transmission right out of the A8L. Now the only way to confirm that is to craw up and look at the ZF plate and post it up. I will let you know it should say something like 6HP??A or something to that effect

You have 2 options for the ZF 6 speed
6 HP 26 A input tq rating 600 Nm ( 442.48 ft-lb)
6 HP 32 A input tq rating 770 Nm ( 567.85 ft-lb)

I was wrong the RS6 and B6 S4 had the 5 speed AT
5 HP 24 a input tq rating 470 Nm ( 346.61 ft-lb)

OutkastSL
12-28-2005, 10:52 PM
hey terry, did you pay the core charge? how much was it? $1000?

TJHUB
12-29-2005, 06:23 AM
Steve: Yup...

blacka4
12-29-2005, 06:32 AM
you guys are nuts...but I know why your doing it...Steve please keep me in the loop on this.. I want to see if maybe it is worth it. I plan on keeping hte car until it dies...maybe make it a track car someday...

TJHUB
12-29-2005, 06:55 AM
Rob: Why are we nuts?

blacka4
12-29-2005, 07:19 AM
because you are spending that kind of cash on your transmission. I know why you are doing it. It just seens crazy to replace something that hasn't actually broken yet. thats my mentallitly. If it ain't broke don't fix it. YET.

TJHUB
12-29-2005, 07:40 AM
Well, I can definately argue that comment. I look at it this way; upgrade the VB to get quicker, more positive shifting under full throttle and increased input torque capacity for about $1,000.00 installed, or live with inadequate shifting and break the thing. If you break the transmission it'll cost ~$2,500.00 for a rebuilt one with no upgrades, add another $1,400.00 to get the upgraded VB and TC (you need it because it already broke once), and the $600.00 to $800.00 to install plus fluids and such. I don't know, the math just seems to work better if I do the VB now before something breaks.

On top of that, my plan for the VB core charge is that while my credit card will be charged the $1,000.00, I'll return my old VB before the end of the month and I'll never see the charge.

TJHUB
01-05-2006, 05:47 PM
I have resurrected this thread to tell you that my Level 10 VB will be in my hands tomorrow according to my good friends at UPS. I think I'll be doing the install tomorrow night as well. My plan is to take pictures and do a small write up. My research shows the task will be fairly simple...we'll see. Watch for my review (or opinions) on Saturday.

BLACK B5
01-05-2006, 06:04 PM
sweet news... looking for the write-up[a4]

4ingDrive
01-05-2006, 06:06 PM
I look forward to it too!

tontod
01-05-2006, 07:02 PM
Same here, looking forward to the review/write-up. I have a tip and will probably get the VB upgrade.

OutkastSL
01-05-2006, 11:19 PM
damn...you're gonna do it yourself? just remember to not get any dust or dirt on it. anything can clog up the valves in the vb. goodluck.

petery18t
01-05-2006, 11:58 PM
Updates? Did you get it in alright?

TJHUB
01-06-2006, 04:18 AM
Steve: I have to do it myself. As it turns out, I'm one of the only people I can trust to do the job right. The guy I have helping me is a do it all type of mechanic. He works at my wife's company and is best friends with my brother-in-law. He's a really good guy and knows his sh*t. His shop was built new in '98 and is spotless. He's done all kinds of transmission work, so I'm sure we'll be clean. I'll have all kinds of pics for you guys on Saturday. I've done enough research on this VB change, I think I could easily run through it myself.

TJHUB
01-06-2006, 08:15 AM
Update: I have the valve body in my dirty little...wait...CLEAN hands. Install is scheduled for tonight.[:D]

Raddue
01-06-2006, 09:47 AM
Good luck, keep us informed.

OutkastSL
01-06-2006, 06:25 PM
awwww shit, keep us updated!!!!

tontod
01-06-2006, 07:30 PM
OutkastSL: Are you also getting a VB upgrade? Or waiting to see how TJHUB's install goes? I'm planning on going pc-16 soon and I figured it would probably be a good idea to get a VB upgrade and maybe a TC converter upgrade in the future.

TJHUB
01-06-2006, 07:54 PM
TEASER: It's in......

OutkastSL
01-06-2006, 07:55 PM
aww damn!!! but are you finished?!?! haha

TJHUB
01-06-2006, 08:00 PM
Yup. I really am not ready to write up a review just yet. I only drove the car for about 10-12 miles so far. The install took exactly two hours. It's EASY! Followed the Bentley manual and it steps you through. The two hours included everything from pulling into the shop to driving out. I even had some stripped bolt heads on the transmission pan to deal with (more on this later). We never rushed anything and even occasionally stopped briefly to shoot the sh*t.

4ingDrive
01-06-2006, 08:17 PM
Any first impressions?

OutkastSL
01-06-2006, 08:19 PM
awesome, i can't wait till i get mine

TJHUB
01-06-2006, 08:37 PM
I'm uploading a few pics that I took of the install. Nothing great, but it'll give you guys an idea of what you're dealing with.

First impressions...INCREDIBLE. The car shifts firmly into every gear without any harshness at all. In auto mode, the transmission shifts into all gears like a manual transmission when letting the clutch out quickly. All gears hit firm. The limited drive I had was fun. Auto mode of course still bogs the motor since that feature is built into the damn computer, but tip mode, well that's something special. It now doesn't matter what the motor is doing, decelerating to hard acelerating, you hit the tip lever (or wheel switches) and the transmission completes the shift almost instantly. You have to be REAL good with a manual transmission to be this fast. I'm not kidding you when I say this, but under modest acceleration, the transmission completes the shift BEFORE the tip lever runs out of stroke! Yes it can be that fast. My real test was to really get on the throttle in 1st and under full boost and torque hit the tip for second and see what happens at around 5,000 rpm. My car used to run the rpm up about 1,000 to 1,500 before the shift would complete. My guess is now it takes about 200 to 300 rpm for the shift to complete. I felt like I was in complete control for the first time with this thing. It's AWESOME![:D]

I need to spend some quality time with the car tomorrow when I can really do some tests. I'll post a full review then.

Pics to come in a few minutes...

TJHUB
01-06-2006, 08:56 PM
I just wanted to post a few pics of what I went through to do the install:

The box that my friends at UPS delivered this morning.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6850lvl10vb1.jpg

Car on the lift. This was taken after the valve body change was complete. The guy the helped me with the VB install is also the guy that did my new tires. I had him check the balance on the rear wheels (they were each out .25 ounces).
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6850onthelift.jpg

Couple of pics with the pan off.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6850nopan1.jpg
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6850nopan2.jpg

Sans old valve body.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6850novb1.jpg

New valve body (deboxed).
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6850lvl10vb2.jpg

Old valve body. Note the differences. All I had to do was transfer a rotational switch, the wiring harness, and a couple of wire brackets.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/6850oldvb1.jpg

Like I said, very easy...

igo380
01-06-2006, 09:45 PM
So how's it work?

TheObiJuan
01-06-2006, 11:00 PM
freaking perfect!
It's great to hear you are having excellent results.

OutkastSL
01-07-2006, 01:48 AM
schweet!!! i hope i can get mine this month. maybe i should sell you my you know what and i'll have some cash to throw at the vb.

9744RR
01-07-2006, 04:45 AM
I don't remember, but how much TQ can your tranny hold now?

TJHUB
01-07-2006, 06:53 AM
Steve: Dude, remember I just spent my money on the valve body[:p]

9744RR: Supposedly an additional 100 ft-lbs. So, 228+100=328 ft-lbs (maybe plus some safety factor). This is based on Sam's input from Level 10.

00S4Boy
01-07-2006, 12:17 PM
I know this may sound ignorant.

But as far as i can tell this mod doesn't seem to effect longevity of the transmission in a positive way. It seems like it will make it perform better but as far as i can tell it doesn't do anything to strengthen the internals for higher hp aplications. I don't know much about automatic transmissions but it just didn't seem to add up.

Has anyone looked into the 2 bennett transmission to see the specifics of what they do?

cbass
01-07-2006, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by 00S4Boy
I know this may sound ignorant.

But as far as i can tell this mod doesn't seem to effect longevity of the transmission in a positive way. It seems like it will make it perform better but as far as i can tell it doesn't do anything to strengthen the internals for higher hp aplications. I don't know much about automatic transmissions but it just didn't seem to add up.

Also, what about the clutches and bands in the transmission. If ZF went weak on everything else, what's to say they didn't go weak on the clutches and bands?

I noticed on the Level 10 site that they offer kits that cover these aspects of the transmission too. Has anybody looked into these too?

blacka4
01-07-2006, 01:53 PM
Yeah, thats exactly what I have been trying to say. Well not exactly but what I have been trying to say is that you will have to upgrade the clutches and bands in order to get a higher tq rating on the tip. you are looking at a lot more money then just the 600 or 800 for the valve body. You will have to do a COMPLETE transmission rebuild.

TJHUB
01-07-2006, 06:01 PM
Generally speaking, which is all I CAN do, is that the biggest weak link in the ZF 5HP19FLA is the fact that it was designed for a "luxury" car. Yes the A4 is a luxury car, not originally designed to be the ultimate sports car we are all trying to make it. That said, the transmission was designed to shift smooooothly for comfort. This smoooooth operation is known not to last or be strong. The reason is that in order to get a smooth shift from an automatic transmission, things need to slip smoothly during transitions (shifting). This also requires lower fluid pressures (clamping forces). All of this slipping creates heat, and everyone knows that heat kills. A transmission designed in this manner is both not strong and not going to last especially when you add more torque. Increasing the fluid pressures inside the transmission will allow things to clamp up quickly which means much less slipping around and heat generation. It's the same principal you would apply when you see someone brake-torque the torque converter and burn it up. The torque converter, clutches, and bands all benefit from this principal. Or at least that's what I have been told. Yes, the internals are not designed to handle big torque numbers without upgrades, but no one said this change is for big torque numbers. It adds something, and that something I was told is approximated at +100 ft-lbs.

Transmissions fail for many many reasons. I have read many posts where people claim that their transimissions failed at stock HP and torque. But why? Was the transmission overworked at stock levels? Doubtful. It most likely had some other contributing factor. In all of these posts, I have not been able to find anyone who had a transmission fail and really knew why. What breaks? These questions are NEVER answered. I have never heard anyone really break the input shaft, even though it's hollow and weak. I've already passed on the theory of why the clutch bands wear out. What else? I know the TC is of a weak design. It has a paper surface! Additionally the TC in some years (don't know which ones though) has a known problem with a small seal on the lockup coupling. It's known to deform and leak which ultimately can cause failure. I've had more than just Sam at Level 10 tell me these things. The guy from IPT and a guy that builds high performance transmissions locally for all of the hot rodders agrees with the information I have. This is why I made the decision to do what I did. I was convinced as I have stated earlier in this post. Is it possible that this is all BS, absolutely. I just don't think so.

Look, I added a little more power to my A4 and knew that I could damage the transmission with the torque levels I have. My real issue was that I was unhappy with the shifting performance of my car at full throttle. I set out to find the best option(s) to fix that issue first. During my research I was told by these resourses that my best money was to upgrade the VB. Sure the TC should be upgraded for the reasons stated above, but it's not necessary in my case. I've been clear about that. This also isn't a BT solution either. I'm certain a full upgrade to the transmission would be required. I was advised that the VB would be the answer to my shifting issues, which it absolutely is. The increase in input capacity is just a bonus. Even if it only adds 50% of the claimed 100 ft-lbs, it is at least still MORE. More = good. I haven't had ANYONE say that the VB upgrade would reduce the life of the transmission in any way. In my mind I went after the weakest link. I'd like to do the TC, but I'm not sure this car is worth spending more money when it's most likely not needed in MY case.

Guys, I really don't know if this is or is not the right answer. But I checked around, called what I thought were the right people, asked what I thought were the right questions, and ultimately got myself sold on a solution. I'm sharing my findings, that is all...

The best way to get professional answers to your questions is to call these people as I have. Talk to as many different people as you can and draw your own conclusion. All I can say for sure is that the Level 10 upgraded VB that I installed in my car is F*CKING AWESOME. The car shifts like a sports car; fast and firm. Fast and firm is qood for a lot of things in my experience[;)]

00S4Boy
01-07-2006, 08:15 PM
A4 a luxury car. No the a4 is a day 2 day car, with a little bit of umph lol. S4 is luxury, with more umph.

blacka4
01-07-2006, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by 00S4Boy
A4 a luxury car. No the a4 is a day 2 day car, with a little bit of umph lol. S4 is luxury, with more umph.

exactly...If I want a 2 day car I will pick from the 66 Nova or he 70 Chevelle I have down stairs

00S4Boy
01-07-2006, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by blacka4
exactly...If I want a 2 day car I will pick from the 66 Nova or he 70 Chevelle I have down stairs

You been hittin the bottle.

I don't even know what your trying to say.

blacka4
01-07-2006, 08:42 PM
no what I was trying to say is that if I just wanted a car that I could only drive a car only on the weekends I would pick from those 2 and not the audi..I bought the car for the luxuary not to be a track car

BLACK B5
01-07-2006, 08:58 PM
fvck all the bullsh!t bickering


congrats on the mod. you jumped out there, did your research and are one of the few modded tip's around. sounds like a very good upgrade. its worth every dollar for the performance shifting regardless of the increased tq/hp ability.


nice job tjhub[a4]

AB18
01-07-2006, 09:27 PM
I can't belive the response some of you have to this guy. If i had a tip i would do the same thing. I think ur all just jealous;) lol

4ingDrive
01-07-2006, 09:34 PM
Good work tjhub. That's all I have to say.

cbass
01-07-2006, 10:04 PM
Yeah TJHUB, sorry if it came out wrong, no doubt the VB would be the first upgrade I would do to the tip too. It's definately the most bang for you buck. I have always just been curious about the other stuff. In a perfect world, I would just upgrade it all, lol. Good work, and I definately know you did your research, it was well done. It's also been a big help to all of us too. Thanks!

BranCKY3
01-07-2006, 10:13 PM
Make a video!!!!

TJHUB
01-07-2006, 10:32 PM
Thanks gentlemen, I'm trying. The VB really does work well. At this point I don't think Sam steered me wrong. I also didn't take anything wrong, all of the questions are perfectly legitimate. I felt like I needed to explain myself.

I just hope someone else does the upgrade too. I'm curious to see what someone else would think. I do have a digital camcorder, so I'll see about that video.

On a side note: I didn't get too much of chance to go out and really live with the new VB today. But I did go for a little rip. The car feels substantially faster. I used to get a small hesitation under full throttle between gears. Now it just hits the next gear and pulls to red line. Ahhh...the luxury[;)]

Sorry for that one...

BranCKY3
01-07-2006, 10:37 PM
Have you driven a DSG equipped car yet? If so, how does it compare?

TJHUB
01-07-2006, 10:53 PM
No I haven't, but I sure would like to. It seems incredible. Shifts that fast is almost unbelievable. I would approximate my shift like this:

Shifting 1-2: about 1 second max. to complete the shift under full throttle.

Shifting 2-3: about .5 second or less to complete the shift under full throttle.

Shifting 3-4 and 4-5: somewhere in between .5 and .8 seconds to complete the shift under full throttle.

Getting into second is definately the slowest and getting into third is definately the quickest. Anything less than full throttle yields faster shifts, especially in second gear. Modest acceleration will actually lurch the car forward in tip mode into second and third gear. Normal driving it just feels firm (no lurching).

One of my engineers at work drives an '04 STI. He can find some respect for my car, but never liked the way it shifted under full throttle. I'll let you know what he thinks Monday.

igo380
01-08-2006, 09:48 AM
Good job on the VB...now i just have to get off the dime and check into yhr B7 model...

blacka4
01-08-2006, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by igo380
Good job on the VB...now i just have to get off the dime and check into yhr B7 model...

see my post on page 2

quattrojunky99
01-09-2007, 07:56 AM
It's been a year now - what's your opinion now of the VB upgrade? Anyone else do this yet? Also, did you get a write-up done?

MultiAudis
01-09-2007, 12:19 PM
his car engine blew up and he got rid of the car I believe... but I think his buddy has the car now so maybe there is still some input to get

TJHUB
01-09-2007, 02:12 PM
his car engine blew up and he got rid of the car I believe... but I think his buddy has the car now so maybe there is still some input to get

Wow, here's a post from the past! [eek] I really don't check the B5 forums much anymore, but by chance I hit the link and saw this thread. Strange...

Anyway, yes I blew the motor with my PES T-28 kit (the guys at PES can still kiss my A$$...but that's another story...). I helped my friend swap the motor and install a new K04 with GIAC software. I ride in the car weekly to work. My B7 is a great car, but I do miss the B5. [:(]

The car now has about 12,000 miles on it since the VB upgrade. The transmission feels perfect. It shifts exactly the same as day one. It really is impressive. People that ride in the car notice it right away. To this day I'd call it one of the best mods I did to the car.

To add to the story, I always wanted to upgrade the torque converter as well but I couldn't justify the install cost or effort. Since the motor blew and was out of the car, the torque converter was starring us right in the face. My friend made the decision to upgrade the torque converter when we installed the motor. The torque converter upgrade really only makes the motor feel more mechanically connected to the drive train. It feels stiffer, more mechanical...that's really all I can say. Performance feels about the same. I do believe the car puts it's power down earlier in the rpm range than it used to, but it's not a night and day difference.

All said, I'll stand by everything I wrote in this and other linked threads regarding the transmission upgrades. I think Sam at Level 10 steered me in the right direction. If I had a B5 Tip car, I'd do it all over again. I regreted a lot of the mods I made to the car, but never the VB or now even the TC.

The car is a blast to drive! [drive]

quattrojunky99
01-10-2007, 06:39 AM
Good to know - thanks!

MultiAudis
01-10-2007, 07:23 AM
Thanks as always T!

TJHUB
01-10-2007, 07:42 AM
No problem gents! [up]

jrau13
01-10-2007, 12:30 PM
Great thread[up] Thanks for all the good info!!

DoubleNutz
05-28-2007, 08:09 PM
[up] Resurecting this thread to say- GREAT WRITE-UP! I am cross posting parts of it over in the B5 S4 forum. We have questions about whether this Level 10 upgrade can be trusted and are curious if anybody else out there has done this updrage since, and what are thier opinions of it.[:D]

70 eliminator
11-01-2011, 07:28 PM
4yr bump any body else happy with levell 10 or ipt and 517 ?

biketsai
11-01-2011, 08:21 PM
I was very happy with my IPT Valvebody. Super QUICK and solid shifts!

ZimbutheMonkey
11-01-2011, 10:34 PM
4yr bump any body else happy with levell 10 or ipt and 517 ?

For the time I had my tip transmission installed I was very happy with my IPT torque converter. Not once did it ever show a hint of slippage despite living it's entire life with either a K04-015, K04 hybrid (very similar to a Frankenturbo F4L) and a GTRS elim. My tip transmission was still working fine when I pulled it out in favor of the 5 speed.

If you're interested, I still have it kicking around, just waiting for the right buyer.

As for level 10, I'd personally steer clear. I've seen some pretty damning evidence regarding some of their products.