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View Full Version : K04 Eliminators?!



Jacob
12-16-2005, 08:25 PM
What the hell is the deal with the K04 eliminators? ATP turbo said they'd be cleared to ship by Christmas, but there hasn't been an updates made on their site since October. Anyone know the status is?

Also I've heard rumors that another company is producing eliminators, does anyone know anything about that?

BranCKY3
12-16-2005, 08:38 PM
They're released already.... couple people are running them.

Audi Skate Snow
12-16-2005, 09:28 PM
k04 eliminator is the GTRS, GT2X and GT2871r. They are designed to bolt to the stock manifold. I have the GTRS kit on my car.

p.s where the hell have you been...thse are old now.

Eurotuned_A4
12-16-2005, 10:10 PM
lol, they make them for the B5 but good luck getting decent software. no one is really doing the software besides ATP crappy MIKA stuff..........worthless from what we've heard here in the B5 forum of AZ. the other company that does them is ECODE(i think), but they dont make software for the B5.

tontod
12-17-2005, 08:02 AM
So if I want to upgrade beyond a k04, I'm basically out of luck - stuck with crappy software?

juju4uofa
12-17-2005, 08:06 AM
This is true unless you go with a standalone and custom tuning. Which is fine if you have the money, time, and patience but if you want a reliable BT car that doesn't require constant tweaking APR is your only choice. Of course with APR you're gonna pay twice as much as you should and by the time they actually ship you your kit the B8 A4 will probably be out.

tontod
12-17-2005, 08:11 AM
Is the PES kit any good? I am looking here:

PES (http://www.giacusa.com/giac_projects.php?pid=9)

I currently got the K04-015 file, got the K04 recently installed. Would I see much of an improvement? The PES kit is way too expensive.

edit: or I'm just better off getting the pc-16 file I'm thinking.

illbill
12-17-2005, 08:21 AM
The Mika nDBW software is not that bad. A couple of ppl have had decent results with it.

Anyway, since your in mass I can give you a ride in my car one day to check it out.

cheers
shawn


Originally posted by tontod
Is the PES kit any good? I am looking here:

PES (http://www.giacusa.com/giac_projects.php?pid=9)

I currently got the K04-015 file, got the K04 recently installed. Would I see much of an improvement? The PES kit is way too expensive.

edit: or I'm just better off getting the pc-16 file I'm thinking.

tontod
12-17-2005, 08:26 AM
Shawn,

Sure, that would be great. I live in Woburn, MA. What about you? So you got the PES T28 turbo? How much did that run you?

illbill
12-17-2005, 08:42 AM
Ahh sorry i quoted the wrong post from you. I have the gt2x with Mika sw.

I'm not far from you actually, I live in Cambridge. Shoot me an email when you get the chance, shukanth @ comcast.net

cheers
shawn


Originally posted by tontod
Shawn,

Sure, that would be great. I live in Woburn, MA. What about you? So you got the PES T28 turbo? How much did that run you?

AvantSpeed
12-17-2005, 09:34 AM
illbill,

have you had a chance to dyno? I would very much like to consider the ATP kit, but I haven't seen enough favorable results.

Eurotuned_A4
12-17-2005, 09:40 AM
PES if your ndbw and APR stage 3 if you dbw. now that APR has their stage 3 + out, im considering it but it cost A TON of money! but i think it would be good to get a turbo kit that has been tested!! reliability is a big thing for me.

sorry illbill, i havent heard anything about mika. you are the first person ive heard that from.

tontod
12-17-2005, 09:57 AM
How much of a power increase can I expect from a PES over a pc-16 K04 setup?

b00st
12-17-2005, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Eurotuned_A4
PES if your ndbw and APR stage 3 if you dbw. now that APR has their stage 3 + out, im considering it but it cost A TON of money! but i think it would be good to get a turbo kit that has been tested!! reliability is a big thing for me.

sorry illbill, i havent heard anything about mika. you are the first person ive heard that from.

its out already and you can order. MMART should have his on by now....he's normally on AW.

illbill
12-17-2005, 10:17 AM
Nope no dyno. Probably next spring when KTR opens up its dyno again. I have done highway pulls against an APR Stage 3 with GT28rs turbo (vanilla APR sw though). We are going to do more pulls tomorrow night now that he has his full S3+ up and running.

Anyway a lot of my thoughts and issues I've been dealing with the kit can be found in the following thread. I am normally on AW.

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/2452790.phtml

cheers
shawn


Originally posted by AvantSpeed
illbill,

have you had a chance to dyno? I would very much like to consider the ATP kit, but I haven't seen enough favorable results.

b00st
12-17-2005, 04:43 PM
i wanna see dyno results of ATP Mani vs. Stock. everybody is saying that is not that big of a deal. which doesn't warrant me to say holy crap. holy crap is like going from k03 t0 k04 to pc16...at least in my opinion.

AvantSpeed
12-17-2005, 05:36 PM
better yet, how about a pnp stock manifold vs. ATP? I remember PES used a ported stock manifold with their T28 before they made their own manifold and the guy that was running it claimed he lost a ton of bottom end with the switch out.

b00st
12-17-2005, 05:44 PM
any would be good...i just like to see some numbers...you would have thought ATP would have released something with them showing gains...and if you don't...then that means there was no real gains or even losses to me.

if you come out with a product, wouldn't you want to show the customer what he has to gain by having their product? i think that goes true for any product.

if that thing made like 20whp....they would be bragging about it with dyno sheets. or if it made 10whp or whatever the case. when someone doesn't show their gains...leads me to believe their really isn't any.

AUDI SKATE SNOW needs to dyno his car on 91 as now he has the ATP mani put on.

illbill
12-17-2005, 07:00 PM
lol, there are a lot jaded individuals on here.

Anyway. for me there was a night and day difference between the atp and stock mani, most notably in overall smoothness. It made the car simply more pleasant to just drive. I can't make any claims for a comparison against a p&p'ed stock mani. The results may very well be similar.

As far as pure numbers go for before and after for the atp manifold. The best CAPS time I was able to log using a VAG with the stock manifold was 5.8s. After the manifold install was 5.5s.

I know the number of A4 owners who actually use CAPS time is far and few between, but I like to use it to get a good basis of what effect my mods have without spending $80 a pop on the dyno.

cheers
shawn

offroader1006
12-17-2005, 07:39 PM
how did you do against the Stg III?

i havent seen any eliminator dynos worth swapping out a K04 for.

unless it makes 240-260whp on an otherwise stock 1.8T, i wouldnt even consider it.

illbill
12-17-2005, 08:38 PM
There have been B5 dynos for the GTRS in the range you specify running Upsolute sw.

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/2437206.phtml



Originally posted by offroader1006
how did you do against the Stg III?

i havent seen any eliminator dynos worth swapping out a K04 for.

unless it makes 240-260whp on an otherwise stock 1.8T, i wouldnt even consider it.

Aliel
12-17-2005, 11:25 PM
wow that guy is running really good numbers with upsolute software. I'm very very impressed.

b00st
12-18-2005, 10:23 AM
i see the link you provided but once you click the other one...just says ATP GT28RS...which uses the bigger MAF housing and the regular GTRS doesn't. not sure what the deal. if we saw pics of the engine we could clear it up but to me i would think that, that is a regular/straight GT28RS....not an ELIMINATOR GTRS. The GT28RS...make great power...more than the eliminator GTRS.

illbill
12-18-2005, 11:59 AM
It's the GTRS. If you read the entire thread to the link I posted, you'll see that I asked the owner the same exact question.

cheers
shawn


Originally posted by b00st
i see the link you provided but once you click the other one...just says ATP GT28RS...which uses the bigger MAF housing and the regular GTRS doesn't. not sure what the deal. if we saw pics of the engine we could clear it up but to me i would think that, that is a regular/straight GT28RS....not an ELIMINATOR GTRS. The GT28RS...make great power...more than the eliminator GTRS.

mmart6545
12-18-2005, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by illbill

As far as pure numbers go for before and after for the atp manifold. The best CAPS time I was able to log using a VAG with the stock manifold was 5.8s. After the manifold install was 5.5s.

I know the number of A4 owners who actually use CAPS time is far and few between, but I like to use it to get a good basis of what effect my mods have without spending $80 a pop on the dyno.

cheers
shawn

You'd be surprised how many people Email me about the CAPS times. Usually, they are interested in numbers for themselves, and not posting them on the public list.

illbill
12-18-2005, 01:25 PM
I'll try remember to email you my logs when I get to the office tomorrow.

I wish CAPS would take off like FATS has for the S4 guys. It would be nice to see a database of times for a lot of the different 1.8T setups out there.

cheers
shawn


Originally posted by mmart6545
You'd be surprised how many people Email me about the CAPS times. Usually, they are interested in numbers for themselves, and not posting them on the public list.

BranCKY3
12-18-2005, 03:02 PM
I wish it would too. I'm gonna do a CAPS time before and after the new k04 chip for 2001's.

SeanF
12-18-2005, 03:27 PM
what is a CAPS time?

offroader1006
12-18-2005, 03:32 PM
if that dyno is for a gtrs elim, thats worth the money id say.

and i plan on getting a caps time soon as well.

offroader1006
12-18-2005, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by SeanF
what is a CAPS time?

officially its a log on the vag com for 3,800 to 6,500 rpms in 3rd gear. you take three logs in both directions on a flat peice of road and the average is your caps time.

it can be done with a pass and stop watch too.

looks like the average k04 is doing around a 7 flat. fastest is in the high 4's

illbill
12-18-2005, 03:57 PM
offroader1006 - The dyno was with the GTRS eliminator, stock mani, stock cat, stock dp, stock smic, and Upsolute software.

And more general info on CAPS from mmart's webpage -

Creating A4 Performance Solutions (http://plaza.ufl.edu/paradigm/caps/)

cheers
shawn

mike-2ptzero
12-18-2005, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by offroader1006
officially its a log on the vag com for 3,800 to 6,500 rpms in 3rd gear. you take three logs in both directions on a flat peice of road and the average is your caps time.

it can be done with a pass and stop watch too.

looks like the average k04 is doing around a 7 flat. fastest is in the high 4's


Problem is that not all of use have the same gear box like the S4's. So for those that run a 2.8 or S4 6 speed gear box we are better off doing the FATs times the way the S4's do. The reason for that is because the 3rd gear on the 2.8 is the same as the 3rd gear on the S4 trans. To do CAPS data with either of these trans will mean you need to use a different RPM instead of the 3800-6500.

illbill
12-19-2005, 07:36 PM
Mike,

Was your time on Matt's page with the 1.8T gearbox or adjusted to CAPS with your 2.8 gearbox?

Any recent FATS times?


Originally posted by mike-2ptzero
Problem is that not all of use have the same gear box like the S4's. So for those that run a 2.8 or S4 6 speed gear box we are better off doing the FATs times the way the S4's do. The reason for that is because the 3rd gear on the 2.8 is the same as the 3rd gear on the S4 trans. To do CAPS data with either of these trans will mean you need to use a different RPM instead of the 3800-6500.

AvantSpeed
12-20-2005, 07:30 AM
Illbill, do you have pictures of your completed install with the ATP turbo?

illbill
12-20-2005, 07:51 AM
Yep, I'll have to dig them up from my home computer though.

Honestly, everything looks fairly stock though, except for the Neuspeed Xtreme Intake (god, why did they have to name it that...)

http://home.comcast.net/~illbillTS/public.html/before_tip_install.JPG


Originally posted by AvantSpeed
Illbill, do you have pictures of your completed install with the ATP turbo?

offroader1006
12-20-2005, 08:59 AM
that doesnt look stock, you can actually see the turbo without zooming in.

AvantSpeed
12-20-2005, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by offroader1006
that doesnt look stock, you can actually see the turbo without zooming in.

LOL! I'd like to see a pic with the airbox installed and a pic of the turbo and hoe close it is to the frame. I've seen pes and the turbo almost hits the frame rail.

mike-2ptzero
12-20-2005, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by illbill
Mike,

Was your time on Matt's page with the 1.8T gearbox or adjusted to CAPS with your 2.8 gearbox?

Any recent FATS times?


The time on his list for the CAPS was on 91, low boost and the stock 1.8t gear box.

I think he should make 2 lists for each of the B5 and B6 lists. Because even the B6 5 speed and 6 speed gear box will be different for those set rpm's.

mike-2ptzero
12-20-2005, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by AvantSpeed
LOL! I'd like to see a pic with the airbox installed and a pic of the turbo and hoe close it is to the frame. I've seen pes and the turbo almost hits the frame rail.

I have a car at my house right now that has the GTRS installed in it. I can take some pics of the turbo/frame so you can see how close it is, it doesn't have the air box in it though.

trailboss
12-20-2005, 10:20 AM
LOL! I'd like to see a pic with the airbox installed and a pic of the turbo and hoe close it is to the frame. I've seen pes and the turbo almost hits the frame rail.
Thats only the 2X have you seen how close the gtrs is to the frame rail. I didn't think it would fit when i installed mine.

mike-2ptzero
12-20-2005, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by trailboss
Thats only the 2X have you seen how close the gtrs is to the frame rail. I didn't think it would fit when i installed mine.


The GTRS doesn't sit close at all. I can actually fit my hand very easily between the turbo and frame rail, if I push my hand against the rail the top of my hand doesn't even touch the turbo housing.

(added)


http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/2716GTRS_elim-01.jpg

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/2716GTRS_elim-02.jpg

illbill
12-20-2005, 10:36 AM
Yeah I figured your car was capable of a lot more. Once you get your hands on the steering wheel again I'd be interested in some current times to see how well you compare against that certain S4 beast that ran a 2.77 FATS (albeit in colder weather).

cheers
shawn


Originally posted by mike-2ptzero
The time on his list for the CAPS was on 91, low boost and the stock 1.8t gear box.

I think he should make 2 lists for each of the B5 and B6 lists. Because even the B6 5 speed and 6 speed gear box will be different for those set rpm's.

mike-2ptzero
12-20-2005, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by illbill
Yeah I figured your car was capable of a lot more. Once you get your hands on the steering wheel again I'd be interested in some current times to see how well you compare against that certain S4 beast that ran a 2.77 FATS (albeit in colder weather).

cheers
shawn

Well hopefully I will be able to log the rpms still with the vag. With my old setup on low boost my FATS times were in the 3's, would have been much quicker on the race settings.

illbill
12-20-2005, 10:48 AM
The GT2X isn't really all that big when compared to the GTRS or T28, granted it looks like Andre the Giant next to the K03. You don't really grasp how small the K03 is until you hold it in your hand.

Excuse the large pic, I don't have any "good" software at the office to resize it.

http://home.comcast.net/~shukanth/public.html/turboInletDisassembleB.jpg


Originally posted by AvantSpeed
LOL! I'd like to see a pic with the airbox installed and a pic of the turbo and hoe close it is to the frame. I've seen pes and the turbo almost hits the frame rail.

illbill
12-20-2005, 10:57 AM
If you can manage to dip into the 2's...[hail]


Originally posted by mike-2ptzero
Well hopefully I will be able to log the rpms still with the vag. With my old setup on low boost my FATS times were in the 3's, would have been much quicker on the race settings.

AvantSpeed
12-20-2005, 10:11 PM
looks like a clean install and alot better than the PES kit I saw. Can you post more pics when everything is back together?

illbill
12-21-2005, 07:19 AM
Ahh sorry, I completely dropped the ball on that last night. I was busy playing with a B5 S4 =)

I'll get them tonight.

cheers
shawn


Originally posted by AvantSpeed
looks like a clean install and alot better than the PES kit I saw. Can you post more pics when everything is back together?

illbill
12-23-2005, 06:46 AM
Avantspeed: Here are the pictures of everything back together in all it's winter glory.

http://home.comcast.net/~illbillTS/public.html/engine1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~illbillTS/public.html/engine2.jpg

AvantSpeed
12-23-2005, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by illbill
Avantspeed: Here are the pictures of everything back together in all it's winter glory.

http://home.comcast.net/~illbillTS/public.html/engine1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~illbillTS/public.html/engine2.jpg

Thanks for the pictures, but damn you ILLBILL you just convinced me to swap out my turbo ! The only reason I did a K04 is to retain the factory look and the ATP kit certainly looks like it does that [up]

Judging by the look of your airbox you have nDBW? Now I've gotta search to see if I can get software other than mika for dbw...

illbill
12-23-2005, 08:07 AM
Yep, nDBW. I am in email contact with a couple other GT2X owners. The nDBW car is running strong on the Mika sauce. It's tough to tell really how the DBW 2000 guy is running since he doesn't even have a boost gauge yet. The last I heard from him, he was sending his ECU back to ATP because all the DBW code received updates.

You might as well just try the Mika software, and at the worst, if it's junk, you can send it back to ATP for a full refund. Swing an email to Unitronic and Upsolute to see what they might be able to offer you as far as 2001 software goes. Make sure you tell them you have an AWM, and not simply that you are a DBW B5 A4.

What's your email address? I can forward you an email(novel) I wrote a couple days ago to someone else about my whole experience with getting the GT2X up and running. But, please no mentioning of what I wrote about in the bottom half of that email, both those guys are good buddies of mine, and imo, it wouldn't be fair to them to post about that on a public forum.

cheers
shawn


Originally posted by AvantSpeed
Thanks for the pictures, but damn you ILLBILL you just convinced me to swap out my turbo ! The only reason I did a K04 is to retain the factory look and the ATP kit certainly looks like it does that [up]

Judging by the look of your airbox you have nDBW? Now I've gotta search to see if I can get software other than mika for dbw...

AvantSpeed
12-23-2005, 09:04 AM
Illbill, I sent you a PM thanks![:D]

illbill
12-23-2005, 09:12 AM
lmao, I just checked my private messages for the first time to get your PM, and it was filled with people asking me about my car. d'oh!

anyway, ygm.


Originally posted by AvantSpeed
Illbill, I sent you a PM thanks![:D]