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jordeeeezy
03-12-2017, 04:02 PM
Not sure what happened but after I got my timing belt done, the car has started to feel sluggish in low RPMs in first to third gear then it'll pick up. We used to have a B6 1.8T and you'll hear the turbo kick in. I don't hear it with this B5 but I can feel the boost (at least I think I can). Anyways, did the timing belt, water pump, thermostat, coolant temp sensor, cam position sensor, spark plugs, coil packs, MAF sensor, intake filter, pre cat O2, all new. There's no CEL and I'm pretty sure there's no codes. Not sure what could be the problem. Any idea what it could be? Vacuum leak? Turbo leak? Timing off? 2001 1.8 Quattro

b6Hate4
03-12-2017, 04:17 PM
Do a boost leak test first and foremost.

walky_talky20
03-12-2017, 04:20 PM
CEL doesn't always matter. Check codes with VCDS. Also check fuel trims in measuring block 032. That will indicate if there are any major air leaks (other than internal leaks, like a faulty Diverter Valve).

Seerlah
03-12-2017, 06:18 PM
Confirm timing is correct, while at it.

walky_talky20
03-12-2017, 07:06 PM
Measuring block 090'ish (with engine running) should show timing phase angle.

jordeeeezy
03-12-2017, 11:26 PM
CEL doesn't always matter. Check codes with VCDS. Also check fuel trims in measuring block 032. That will indicate if there are any major air leaks (other than internal leaks, like a faulty Diverter Valve).

Sorry, I'm kinda a noob with this car.. 😅 how do I check fuel trims?

jordeeeezy
03-12-2017, 11:28 PM
Measuring block 090'ish (with engine running) should show timing phase angle.

And the timing phase angle, what should it be at and is it easy to do? I had the belt done at a shop..

Seerlah
03-12-2017, 11:36 PM
If all this was done at a shop, bring it back to them and take advantage of your warranty. But don't bring it there all off assumption. You will be wasting their time if they find nothing, and get them quite perturbed.

Believer
03-13-2017, 07:58 AM
And the timing phase angle, what should it be at and is it easy to do? I had the belt done at a shop..

Also curious about this value. I have very similar experiences to the OP - very sluggish down low. The apparent cause for this is clear, in my case: the ECU is pulling up to max timing across all cylinders when taking off from a standstill and low down in 2nd and 3rd. Unsure of the root cause, however.

OP - I am curious what your block 20 values are during these sluggish instances.

rage385
03-13-2017, 12:25 PM
I bought an A4 a while back (and still have it). I was fighting this issue for a while. It turned out that the previous owner let the timing belt go and had to have a another head put on. Apparently the guy that rebuilt the head put the cam gear on backwards. When I lined up all the external marks, then popped the valve cover off, the marks on the cams themselves versus the cam blocks inside the head did not line up. My friend flipped the gear for me and it fixed everything. During this trouble shooting process, my MAF numbers were low, which made be think it was a MAF or electrical issue the entire time.

I agree with other on this thread that said it might be a timing issue. Maybe the shop did not align the mark properly.

jordeeeezy
03-13-2017, 01:01 PM
If all this was done at a shop, bring it back to them and take advantage of your warranty. But don't bring it there all off assumption. You will be wasting their time if they find nothing, and get them quite perturbed.

The car is sluggish in the low end. You can feel it struggle as it accelerates until it reaches about 3k then it'll be smooth. The shop thinks there's nothing wrong while other people who have driven the car notice it struggle a bit. This shop is pretty hard headed and I do want to take advantage of my warranty. If I tell him "it feels like the timing is off." And he'll go off saying how the timing isn't off, that he's test driven the car and try to make it seem like I don't know what I'm talking about. I know for a fact I need a new clutch but I thought I'd ask him anyways and he said "your clutch is fine. [The catching point] is normal." It was obviously catching higher than usual but back to the topic. Are there some numbers where I could compare what it should be at to what the shop has it? I just want it right so I never have to take it back to this guy because I don't want future engine problems..

jordeeeezy
03-13-2017, 01:02 PM
Also curious about this value. I have very similar experiences to the OP - very sluggish down low. The apparent cause for this is clear, in my case: the ECU is pulling up to max timing across all cylinders when taking off from a standstill and low down in 2nd and 3rd. Unsure of the root cause, however.

OP - I am curious what your block 20 values are during these sluggish instances.

How do I go about checking that? Maybe I can use those numbers to show the shop that it should be those values and not what I'm currently getting.

Believer
03-13-2017, 01:04 PM
These values are ignition knock control and are found using VCDS. This may not be your issue at all but I figured worth taking a look at. You really shouldn't see any ignition knock control except for at full throttle and maybe on really hot days.

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walky_talky20
03-13-2017, 05:34 PM
On a 2001 1.8T, Block 090 through 094 is camshaft adjustment control (VVT - variable valve timing). At warm idle, the amount of advance is zero. So the camshaft phase angle should also be zero. There is some variance for the belt, chain, temperature, etc. But it should be very close to zero. If it was more than +/- 2.5 or so at warm idle, I would be checking the timing closer. And I would feel best if it was a bit lower than that. Actual spec is probably +/- 3.0 degrees.

Basically with the cam advance off, that number is telling how close to "balls on" (for lack of a better word) your belt and chain timing are.

On the 2.8 V6 30V engines, the cam gears are fully adjustable (no keyway), so these block 090 numbers are used as an important gauge for how accurately the job was done.


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SN95Audi87
03-14-2017, 07:37 AM
My 2cents. If spark, fuel, and air are ok. Then go down line like walky said for timing...My car feels sluggish because I know that my coil packs are really old and need replacing. My 1st and 2nd gear are ok but could be stronger off the line...

Believer
03-14-2017, 12:13 PM
On a 2001 1.8T, Block 090 through 094 is camshaft adjustment control (VVT - variable valve timing). At warm idle, the amount of advance is zero. So the camshaft phase angle should also be zero. There is some variance for the belt, chain, temperature, etc. But it should be very close to zero. If it was more than +/- 2.5 or so at warm idle, I would be checking the timing closer. And I would feel best if it was a bit lower than that. Actual spec is probably +/- 3.0 degrees.

Basically with the cam advance off, that number is telling how close to "balls on" (for lack of a better word) your belt and chain timing are.

On the 2.8 V6 30V engines, the cam gears are fully adjustable (no keyway), so these block 090 numbers are used as an important gauge for how accurately the job was done.


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Great info. I could not find a definitive answer anywhere as to what the phase value should be.

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jordeeeezy
03-14-2017, 06:56 PM
Thanks for all the info guys. Spark plugs and coils are new. I totally forgot about the fuel filter that I need to install. But if the performance is still poor after changing then there's a chance it's timing

jordeeeezy
03-14-2017, 07:00 PM
These values are ignition knock control and are found using VCDS. This may not be your issue at all but I figured worth taking a look at. You really shouldn't see any ignition knock control except for at full throttle and maybe on really hot days.

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk

The VCDS will give me more info compared to a VAG COM? I don't have either and don't have any friends who have one, but is it possible that an Audi/German specialist (or maybe even the dealership) will carry one?

b6Hate4
03-14-2017, 07:15 PM
The VCDS will give me more info compared to a VAG COM? I don't have either and don't have any friends who have one, but is it possible that an Audi/German specialist (or maybe even the dealership) will carry one?

VCDS is Vagcom. 2 names for the same product.

Spectre1130
03-14-2017, 08:56 PM
Not to thread jack but can VCDSlite do real time logging of the blocks 090-094? I may be having the same issue.

jordeeeezy
03-15-2017, 12:31 AM
VCDS is Vagcom. 2 names for the same product.

Oh.. haha see? Total noob.. Thanks man!

walky_talky20
03-15-2017, 06:10 AM
Not to thread jack but can VCDSlite do real time logging of the blocks 090-094? I may be having the same issue.

I believe VCDS Lite is limited to see only through block 025 or so. So you cannot view or log the upper blocks, no.

Spectre1130
03-15-2017, 12:35 PM
I believe VCDS Lite is limited to see only through block 025 or so. So you cannot view or log the upper blocks, no.

Thanks

OverSpun
03-15-2017, 09:54 PM
I was having a similar issue... until an intermittent N75 code finally showed up. Have not changed it yet due to a swarm of mosquitos outside since they attacked when I started. Hopefully I'll finish in the next week or so to see if this resolves my issue. The code would only show up after going WOT after figuring it out.

jordeeeezy
03-16-2017, 12:57 AM
I was having a similar issue... until an intermittent N75 code finally showed up. Have not changed it yet due to a swarm of mosquitos outside since they attacked when I started. Hopefully I'll finish in the next week or so to see if this resolves my issue. The code would only show up after going WOT after figuring it out.

Is it an easy fix? And WOT? Lol..

jordeeeezy
03-16-2017, 01:00 AM
Jk.. wide open throttle. Got it. Appreciate all the help guys

OverSpun
03-16-2017, 01:23 AM
Jk.. wide open throttle. Got it. Appreciate all the help guys

Well, that code would only come back after WOT during testing. Fairly easy repair besides the annoying factory clamps with low space. I would check everything else before start replacing parts.

n75 replacement- (if needed)
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng70.shtml