Performance Category for Stage 2+

[lexcruiser]

Just out of curiosity, what general performance category does a Stage 2+ upgrade (eg. APR, PEL, GIAC, etc.) put the S4 into? Speaking generalities, obviously each tune will be slightly different as will each car and what add'l bolt-ons are present. What other cars would be comparable in performance?

Again, just asking for a friend. [>_<]

[whiped]

We don't have much data yet sadly.

So far we have a few guys in the low 11's trapping consistently over 120MPH.

Lots of cars in that class.

[Loe]

yes, data is limited thus far and is tune dependent. Our car covers more ground from a stand start then from roll races, evident by our low trap speeds for our low E.T.'s. Car's on comparable street tires in my E.T. range are usually above 125mph in traps.

[LittleDozer]

The whole "Stage 2+" "Stage 2++" etc has always confused me. I've seen people say they are Stage 2+ because they have stage 2 software with an intake and exhaust. This IMO is still stage 2.

Stage 2+ I'd consider dual pulley at this point. It seems in our market we won't consider something stage 3 until it involves a different SC, but right now that kit makes less power than dual pulley.

In terms of quarter mile, it's on par with BMW M3/M4. Those cars will spank us from a roll though and on the track.

[jimrobbington]

And it varies greatly from platform to platform. 2+ in the 2.0t world means upgraded fuel pump on top of stage 2, which did require a software upgrade.

I would agree that 2+ means dual pulley on this platform

Sent from my SM-G930VC using Tapatalk

[yjypm]

If we are talking dual pulley this car is more comparable to a stock rs7 based on the 1/4 time. Not a lot of cars with awd are in this performance category. Jaguar F-Type R is close as well. The new 911 4S should also be in this category as well, but you know we are only talking about straight line performance

[jachien]

If we are talking dual pulley this car is more comparable to a stock rs7 based on the 1/4 time. Not a lot of cars with awd are in this performance category. Jaguar F-Type R is close as well. The new 911 4S should also be in this category as well, but you know we are only talking about straight line performance

Quite a few cars actually and new ones are only getting faster. I was comparing motor trends greatest drag race 5 and 6 with our fastest 1/4 mile times on this board and it seems we would end up being mid pack against all those cars. Conditions and technique would obviously come into play at that point (us vs those cars)


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[xpoweruk]

Quite a few cars actually and new ones are only getting faster. I was comparing motor trends greatest drag race 5 and 6 with our fastest 1/4 mile times on this board and it seems we would end up being mid pack against all those cars. Conditions and technique would obviously come into play at that point (us vs those cars)


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

That may well be true,but mid pack in a line up of pretty special cars aint bad :)

1- Audi R8 V10 Plus – 10.6 SEC @ 130.3 MPH

2- McLaren 570S – 10.7 SEC @ 132.0 MPH

3- 2017 Nissan GT-R (Premium) – 11.2 SEC @123.4 MPH

4- 2017 Acura NSX – 11.3 SEC @ 123.6

5- 2016 Mercedes-AMG GT S – 11.4 SEC @126.7 MPH

6- 2017 Jaguar F-Type SVR – 11.5 SEC @122.7 MPH

7- 2017 Porsche 911 Carrera S – 11.5 SEC @ 120.5 MPH

8- 2016 Dodge Viper ACR – 11.5 SEC @ 124.7 MPH

9- Dodge Charger Hellcat – (Unofficial entry, no time or MPH given)

10- 2016 BMW M4 GTS – 12.1 SEC @ 118.8 MPH

11- 2016 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350R – 12.2 SEC @ 118.9 MPH

12- 2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE – 12.4 SEC @ 114.2 MPH

[bhvrdr]

Exactly, its mid-pack in the top 2% of cars on the road. Not bad :)

[Loe]

Exactly, its mid-pack in the top 2% of cars on the road. Not bad :)

yep yep

for comparison sake at my track and what I've ran against over the past year:

2005 E55 amg - tune, pulley, bolt-ons, slicks 11.3@121
2015 F-type V8 RWD - tune, pulley 11.6@121
2015 BMW M4 DCT - stock 12.3@116mph
Same BMW M4 DCT - JB4, intake, E85/93, slicks 11.4@122mph
F10 (?) BMW M5 DCT - JB4, intake, 93 11.7@122mph
F12 (?) BMW M6 DCT - JB4, intake, 93 11.6@123mph
Same BMW M6 DCT - flash (I forget which), intake, 93 11.5@125mph
2005 SL600 bi-turbo V12 - tune, slicks 11.5@121mph
2010 GTR - stock 11.3@120mph
C6 Z06 - unsure if any mods as I never gotten to speak to the driver - 11.6@122mph
Tesla P85D 11.5@115mph

then there was the really fun and memorable one, Gallardo RWD (I forget which version), 11.7@128mph lol, that one yeah would have murdered me if it had traction.

The best part of our cars is that its repeatable even on the streets from a stand-start if you avoid using LC. I've also ran some "mexico" runs with a few of the BMW cars and hung with no issues from a 30mph roll up to 130mph, particularly the JB4 M5 and JB4 M4. My set-up is strong below 100mph, the B8.5 gear is pretty neat in that aspect in that it will be near the top of 3rd gear right below the 100mph mark, I'm actually in the lead with the combination of AWD + mods (yes, even at 30mph it helps), but then it's pretty dead even to the top of 4th gears.

granted, aside from the SL600 Bi-turbo V12 which was recent, I ran the cars listed above and on mexico runs with my GIAC stage II + CW on my 179mm crank, and not the GIAC DP/183mm combination. The DP file holds the bypass closed throughout the entire range (as compared to the stage II + CW where it would bleed around 10% in the mid-range and 2-3% up top) and runs more timing over the stage II file, just waiting for that break in cold dense air to give it the beans to show what it can truly do. I think you've seen both logs before? if not PM me and I can send.

The car can be pretty fast from a roll, I was able to reel in that bi-turbo V12 up top at the track (again depending on what you select, tune and how its set, particularly with ignition advance and other items such as a/f). Still, our car covers lots of ground for its trap speed due to the ability to out-launch cars that even run DR/slicks (aside from the all-out drag cars or those dedicated to drag racing of course) for both AWD and RWD cars.

[Loe]

...but at the end of the day, if you stack our cars up against modded GTR's, downpiped+tuned M3/M4's, downpiped+tuned M5/M6, tuned C63 4.0TT, tuned+downpiped ATS-V, properly modded CTS-V, our cars are pretty slow in comparison...especially considering they all will trap 125+mph and we will see taillights.

[Jester2893]

...but at the end of the day, if you stack our cars up against modded GTR's, downpiped+tuned M3/M4's, downpiped+tuned M5/M6, tuned C63 4.0TT, tuned+downpiped ATS-V, properly modded CTS-V, our cars are pretty slow in comparison...especially considering they all will trap 125+mph and we will see taillights.

...but at the end of the day that list includes a vast range of engines, from v8 to twin charged 6s, so when comparing apples to oranges like you just did of course there will be a greater level of variability.

[jachien]

...but at the end of the day, if you stack our cars up against modded GTR's, downpiped+tuned M3/M4's, downpiped+tuned M5/M6, tuned C63 4.0TT, tuned+downpiped ATS-V, properly modded CTS-V, our cars are pretty slow in comparison...especially considering they all will trap 125+mph and we will see taillights.

This is more what I'm talking about. If someone is interested in buying a new s5 for example, you could get an older 2012 gtr for similar price. Spend a bit more for fbo + E85 and youre making 700hp. But if you're just talking about speed in quarter, you could buy an evo or some economical car and throw tons of money into it to make it run 10s or less. It's like the old argument of fully built civic dedicated to drag vs a lambo. Sure you can make it faster but you miss out on a lot of other aspects that the other car was meant for.

To answer the OP original question, I would closely match our cars with dual pulley and tune with a 2012-2016 gtr. Both cars are awd. Both cars would trap similarly, physical dimensions are similar. But I think our cars gets better gas mileage as gtr doesn't have GDI.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[importraceram]

When you factor in cost ($20-25k B8), speed (when modded), luxury, and practicality (AWD) there really isn't much that can compete with the S4 given those 4 categories. Only other car that initially jumps out to me would be 335i of a similar year.

[AvusPdx]

When you factor in cost ($20-25k B8), speed (when modded), luxury, and practicality (AWD) there really isn't much that can compete with the S4 given those 4 categories. Only other car that initially jumps out to me would be 335i of a similar year.

06~11 V10 M5. Although the DCT models are blowing up the tranny.

[importraceram]

06~11 V10 M5. Although the DCT models are blowing up the tranny.

One of my categories was practicality. A 500hp rwd car isn't a practical DD during a New England blizzard. But the E60 is quite a machine all things considered.

[13jfp]

It would be interesting to see someone put smaller diameter tires (drag radials) on an s4. I could see a tenth or two being gained. Not sure what it would take to clear the calipers or how you would calibrate the speedometer.

[13jfp]

I'm not that familiar with the internals of an Audi dual clutch tranny. Is there any way to change the gear ratio like u would in the differential of a rwd car?

[13jfp]

Didn't mean to hijack the thread so i apologize if my comments offend anyone. My posts seem kind of random after reading them again.

[13jfp]

I've owned two mustangs with superchargers in the past and have done a little racing (I sucked). But I did learn that the details add up when looking for low e.t.s. Gearing, tire size, driveline rotating mass, etc. I wish more products were available to capitalize on those details.

[13jfp]

I think the engine performance end of things is very well sorted out. I'm betting there is at least 1/2 second left on the table.

[jachien]

I think the engine performance end of things is very well sorted out. I'm betting there is at least 1/2 second left on the table.

I would agree with this statement as average dual pulley guys are running on average mid 11s? But for example the apr/eurocode stage 3 car put down a 10.9 because of the details as you put it.

[Loe]

I would agree with this statement as average dual pulley guys are running on average mid 11s? But for example the apr/eurocode stage 3 car put down a 10.9 because of the details as you put it.

someone should do it and try it [up]

Given what I have experienced logging both on/off track and tracking my times, I don't feel like we are at our limits at 11.2x at all given current mods on street tires and full weight, we are all just waiting for that ideal condition/weather.

[jachien]

someone should do it and try it [up]

Given what I have experienced logging both on/off track and tracking my times, I don't feel like we are at our limits at 11.2x at all given current mods on street tires and full weight, we are all just waiting for that ideal condition/weather.

I'm down to try. Anyone in so cal wanna go to a track? My interior is almost stripped as I'm in the process of replacing speakers and getting some panels alcantara wrapped. But removing the rest of the stuff shouldn't seem much more. Just need some r compound tires on 18's...


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[jachien]

Car isn't running completely right though. I need to log some but I think I'm having the same issue as dozer.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Loe]

listen with ear phones, is this the issue you are experiencing?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OauBVTDbZeo

11 seconds into the video is a good spot, around 3,000rpm

[jachien]

listen with ear phones, is this the issue you are experiencing?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OauBVTDbZeo

11 seconds into the video is a good spot, around 3,000rpm

Yea sounds like that. And if you keep on the gas it does it again higher up in the rpm band as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[jachien]

Like a brrrrrrrrrrrt. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Loe]

Log these fields, then PM me for my email address:

Engine speed
Accelerator position
Charge air pressure specified value-MAP_SP
Ignition angle: actual
MAF mg/stroke
MAF_ENVD mg/stroke
RFP_AV
Throttle valve angle
Accelerator position

I happened to log it using my normal basic fields by chance when it happened, then sent a different sent of logs (the one above) during the events. There is something that the ECU is requesting that the vehicle isn't happy with, at least that was with my issue. Mine only happened around that 3,200 rpm in between certain throttle inputs, but it triggered strange codes such as the infamous fuel pressure code. It's 100% fine now after the file revision.

[jachien]

Log these fields, then PM me for my email address:

Engine speed
Accelerator position
Charge air pressure specified value-MAP_SP
Ignition angle: actual
MAF mg/stroke
MAF_ENVD mg/stroke
RFP_AV
Throttle valve angle
Accelerator position

I happened to log it using my normal basic fields by chance when it happened, then sent a different sent of logs (the one above) during the events. There is something that the ECU is requesting that the vehicle isn't happy with, at least that was with my issue. Mine only happened around that 3,200 rpm in between certain throttle inputs, but it triggered strange codes such as the infamous fuel pressure code. It's 100% fine now after the file revision.

I've had it happen a few times now and I don't seem to get any codes for impending doom. But I'll try to get some logs on my way home. Did you notice it in any gear in particular? I don't remember what gear I was in when my instances occurred.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Loe]

I've had it happen a few times now and I don't seem to get any codes for impending doom. But I'll try to get some logs on my way home. Did you notice it in any gear in particular? I don't remember what gear I was in when my instances occurred.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

any gear that can sustain that rev range (3,000rpm-3,300rpm) at the part-throttle position. Usually 3rd or 4th gears will allow for enough load to make it sputter. Mine only triggered that code every so often, it never triggered a CEL though, just a ghost code prior to the file revision.

[jachien]

Ps: my apologies to the OP. Didnt mean to hijack the thread. To get back on topic, dual pulley and e85 are on par with almost every stock high performance car on the market.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)