Went Unitronic

[def]

So I decided to give Unitronic a shot. I have mixed feelings about my choice. I was really attracted by the Uniconnect as the power to flash on my own seemed very attractive. I saw a video on YouTube of a guy flashing his car and it looked pretty well done. I have to say it really is slick and works really well. They did a great job on the software.

That said, while I researched all the tuners dyno charts, and 1/4 miles, and while it helped to influence my purchase those details aren't entirely what drove me. I don't want my car to feel like a race car, just to feel like how it should have come from the factory. I felt like I wanted the little extra bump a Stage 1 tune gives paired with a TCU tune to raise my shift points to 7000rpm and manual mode downshifts disabled. Other than tuning from home I felt like no matter which tuner I went with I could probably achieve this. Maybe rather than assuming I should have posed the question directly. [o_o]

My car is a B8.5 with DSG.

I went Stage 1 to start. Right away you could notice the difference. Where the car started to feel like it ran out of steam around 4k rpm pre stage 1 this thing just keeps pulling now. It will hang pretty decent with my friends RS5 now where it was a total annihilation before. My only gripe would be that in Auto/Drive the throttle felt a little sharper than stock and I wished it would have retained that stock smoothness a bit. Felt almost like Sport mode but in Drive.

Next item on the list was to get the shift points raised to 7000rpm so I could get the most out of the tune. I read through their site and bought the stage 1 TCU (but have never flashed it) which is supposed to match their Stage 1 ECU better. Wasn't until after the purchase I noticed the stupid chart telling me it didn't raise shift points. Even after asking the guys at Unitronic I still don't understand what the purpose of the Stage 1 TCU tune is. It has the same details as Stage 2 TCU but retains the stock shift points? Neither disables auto downshifts in manual mode. Is that worth $700?

Well my answer to that question was to part with another $150 and get the Stage 2 TCU. Flashed. Auto/Drive mode is amazing now. It smoothed that extra sharpness I got with the Stage 1 and made it feel like stock again. Now it just keeps pulling past 4k rpm. Feels great! Dynamic/Sport on the other hand is less ideal. I find it gets hung up during upshifts sometimes. Most noticeably around 3-4 shift. According to John this could be caused by flashing Stage 2 TCU when it clearly states it pairs with Stage 1+ and Stage 2 ECU vs my Stage 1. Something I'll have to try I guess. I don't want to run Stage 1+ on an ongoing basis because I prefer to run 91. Unfortunately I'm starting to deviate from my flash and enjoy experience in my old car with APR. Not to say APR is any better on this platform but I'm not as happy as I thought I'd be. Why cant I have a 91 octane car with a 7k rpm shift point and manual downshifts disabled? The sunny side to Unitronic is truly the flash from home. I can at least avoid annoying trips to the tuner while I play with the flashes. I'd probably be angry otherwise.

So anyway, if you are like me and want a stock feeling car, this combo is not working out so far for me. I'll play with it a bit and see if it doesn't get any better. Anyone with APR or GIAC stage 1 cars with TCU in the Toronto area? I'd love to see how they compare.

[bmoreS4]

EPL has flash at home and 7k shift point DSG with Stage 1 and 2.

[def]

Chose Unitronic since it seemed to have a bit more of a history. Haven't really heard of EPL before last year. My impression of EPL is also that they sort of tweak as they go. Not necessarily a bad thing but that doesn't sound very confidence inspiring. Sounds a bit test piloty even if its not. Also because Canada. We drive to Quebec a lot so thought it'd be good to support a "local" guy for once.

[LittleDozer]

Chose Unitronic since it seemed to have a bit more of a history. Haven't really heard of EPL before last year. My impression of EPL is also that they sort of tweak as they go. Not necessarily a bad thing but that doesn't sound very confidence inspiring. Sounds a bit test piloty even if its not. Also because Canada. We drive to Quebec a lot so thought it'd be good to support a "local" guy for once.

EPL has been around for a long time. They were big in the B5 S4s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Acejam]

APR Stage 1 ECU + TCU here. Extremely noticeable power increase. DSG holds to ~7150 rpm in lower gears and shifts buttery smooth every time.

[jprice]

My impression of EPL is also that they sort of tweak as they go. Not necessarily a bad thing but that doesn't sound very confidence inspiring.
I think you mis-understand. EPL is constantly improving things based on feedback and continue developing on the platform. It's why EPL stage 1 was as fast as APR stage two for so long before APR finally got off their haunches and updated the stage two tune with v3 to finally make it competitive.

I'd prefer to be with a company that continues to improve on an already good product.

[Acejam]

Chose Unitronic since it seemed to have a bit more of a history. Haven't really heard of EPL before last year. My impression of EPL is also that they sort of tweak as they go. Not necessarily a bad thing but that doesn't sound very confidence inspiring. Sounds a bit test piloty even if its not. Also because Canada. We drive to Quebec a lot so thought it'd be good to support a "local" guy for once.

Your impression is unfortunately correct. EPL is essentially following the SaaS model with continuous software improvements. However, they can't exactly add new features since it's a car after-all and the ECU is limited in the amount of processing it can perform. Sure, they have been big in dual-pulley development, and I applaud them for that. But not a day goes by where I don't read about a CEL popping up in either their thread on here, or in the various Audi Facebook groups that I'm in. (Not just E85 but even basic Stage 1/2 93 tunes) Every other platform that I've been involved in I've been able to get a custom tune, or a reliable "completed" off the shelf tune. EPL keeps revising, and to me, that is also not very confidence inspiring.

Let me be very clear, because I know the fanboys will be hating on me a bit here: I'm not saying EPL is bad, Tony sounds like a great guy. But you need to understand the "dark side" here. The reality is many EPL customers are beta testers and they don't even know it. There is no way a one-man tuner shop can reliably tune, dyno test, and road test every single car/platform they support. APR, GIAC, REVO, and others have TEAMS of people taking these cars to the drag strip, track days, blowing them up to find the limits, and actively collecting data from opt-in beta testers all over the world.


I'd prefer to be with a company that continues to improve on an already good product.

And that's your choice. But I'd rather not risk my $60k daily driver simply so I can tell myself and others that I'm "breaking new ground" or "furthering platform development". EPL should be doing that themselves with their own shop cars, not yours, just like APR, GIAC, and REVO. That's one of the clear differences here.

[waxxonMTL]

CEL on stage 2 OCTANE ? never heard about lol. Most CEL are from pure ethanol and so far, the only other tuner who does ethanol is GIAC and they also have CEL issues, so please be impartial when talking out loud :)

I admit tho that it would be great if Tony had a 3.0t himself and could concentrate all his effort on one platform instead of tuning 996 and others too. Make one perfect before moving to the next one, IMO. For his defense tho, it appears theres numerous box code for the B8/B8.5 3.0t so even if you do get one car, you only covered X % of the box code, it wouldn't be possible to own every box code, Heck, I don't believe APR/GIAC etc. own the 15 (throwing a number in the air) different S4 to tune all of them in-house.

[soltez]

I don't want to run Stage 1+ on an ongoing basis because I prefer to run 91. Why cant I have a 91 octane car with a 7k rpm shift point and manual downshifts disabled?

Why would you want to cheap out a few cents per/L to run 91 in a tuned sport sedan when 93/94 is readily available here in Ontario?

[jprice]

But not a day goes by where I don't read about a CEL popping up in either their thread on here, or in the various Audi Facebook groups that I'm in

I've flashed dozens of EPL stage 1 and stage 2 cars over the last few years. They all run CEL free. But, of course, the owners aren't trying to mix in more e85 blend than the LPFP can handle, etc. First CEL I've seen was a hardware issue with a low pressure fuel pump that was resolved by replacing it.. no need for tune change.

Without knowing what codes people are throwing and why, you seem to be blaming the tune. The reality is there are a LOT of EPL customers flashing their cars, so you see a lot of them talking. People aren't unknowingly beta testing.

[Acejam]

I've flashed dozens of EPL stage 1 and stage 2 cars over the last few years. They all run CEL free. But, of course, the owners aren't trying to mix in more e85 blend than the LPFP can handle, etc. First CEL I've seen was a hardware issue with a low pressure fuel pump that was resolved by replacing it.. no need for tune change.

Without knowing what codes people are throwing and why, you seem to be blaming the tune. The reality is there are a LOT of EPL customers flashing their cars, so you see a lot of them talking. People aren't unknowingly beta testing.

I'm not an EPL customer myself so I can only report on what I see. Yes - these are owners flashing their cars. I wasn't aware EPL had dealers?

If you flashed a year ago and haven't touched the ECU since then, you've likely missed out on EPL updates. Not one, but multiple. If that cycle keeps repeating itself, then one can only assume that means the file you are in fact currently running was never really fully ready. There's a difference between point updates once or twice a year, and pushing a new update every few weeks.

[waxxonMTL]

Why would you want to cheap out a few cents per/L to run 91 in a tuned sport sedan when 93/94 is readily available here in Ontario?

and have you gave the car some times to fully adapt to the tune ? i.e: 10 start up, 100 km ish, WOT and cruise, 1 week ?

[waxxonMTL]

I'm not an EPL customer myself so I can only report on what I see. Yes - these are owners flashing their cars. I wasn't aware EPL had dealers?

I think my point is more of the fact that EPL says "It's done, release it!" when in reality, they keep releasing updates.

In other words, if you flashed a year ago and haven't touched the ECU since then, you've likely missed out on EPL updates. Not one, but multiple. If that cycle keeps repeating itself, then one can only assume that means the file you are in fact currently running was never really fully ready. There's a difference between point updates once or twice a year, and pushing a new update every few weeks.

you sound like the other guy who was arguing with me that pss10 are shit when in fact he never drove on a pss10 setup lol.. Anyways this is off-topic.

OP ; Please refer to post 12. you should put 93 and give the car some time to adapt if you haven't. If after everthing your still not happy, well, the only other tune at home option is EPL. so take your money back from Uni and call/email EPL.

[Acejam]

you sound like the other guy who was arguing with me that pss10 are shit when in fact he never drove on a pss10 setup lol.. Anyways this is off-topic.

OP ; Please refer to post 12. you should put 93 and give the car some time to adapt if you haven't. If after everthing your still not happy, well, the only other tune at home option is EPL. so take your money back from Uni and call/email EPL.

I'm not looking to argue with anyone. People need to know the truth and what they're doing to their expensive cars. I would welcome the opportunity to have a dialog about this and if you can point out anything in my post that isn't factual besides my "beta" accusation, please do so.

On another note, PSS10's are great.

[jprice]

I'm not an EPL customer myself so I can only report on what I see. Yes - these are owners flashing their cars. I wasn't aware EPL had dealers?

If you flashed a year ago and haven't touched the ECU since then, you've likely missed out on EPL updates. Not one, but multiple. If that cycle keeps repeating itself, then one can only assume that means the file you are in fact currently running was never really fully ready. There's a difference between point updates once or twice a year, and pushing a new update every few weeks.

Don't worry, I have a list of everyone I have flashed, what version they're on, and as soon as updates are available I contact them and update them. :)

[Tony@EPL]

Your impression is unfortunately correct. EPL is essentially following the SaaS model with continuous software improvements. However, they can't exactly add new features since it's a car after-all and the ECU is limited in the amount of processing it can perform. Sure, they have been big in dual-pulley development, and I applaud them for that. But not a day goes by where I don't read about a CEL popping up in either their thread on here, or in the various Audi Facebook groups that I'm in. (Not just E85 but even basic Stage 1/2 93 tunes) Every other platform that I've been involved in I've been able to get a custom tune, or a reliable "completed" off the shelf tune. EPL keeps revising, and to me, that is also not very confidence inspiring.

Let me be very clear, because I know the fanboys will be hating on me a bit here: I'm not saying EPL is bad, Tony sounds like a great guy. But you need to understand the "dark side" here. The reality is many EPL customers are beta testers and they don't even know it. There is no way a one-man tuner shop can reliably tune, dyno test, and road test every single car/platform they support. APR, GIAC, REVO, and others have TEAMS of people taking these cars to the drag strip, track days, blowing them up to find the limits, and actively collecting data from opt-in beta testers all over the world.



And that's your choice. But I'd rather not risk my $60k daily driver simply so I can tell myself and others that I'm "breaking new ground" or "furthering platform development". EPL should be doing that themselves with their own shop cars, not yours, just like APR, GIAC, and REVO. That's one of the clear differences here.

I think you have a vastly incorrect and incomplete view of my company... and Im not sure where your are getting your information.

I wont muck up your thread, as its not an EPL thread... but nearly 100% of what you've said in this post is wrong.

[Acejam]

I think you have a vastly incorrect and incomplete view of my company... and Im not sure where your are getting your information.

I wont muck up your thread, as its not an EPL thread... but nearly 100% of what you've said in this post is wrong.

I would welcome the opportunity for you to set the record straight and to correct me where I'm wrong.

[Tony@EPL]

I would welcome the opportunity for you to set the record straight and to correct me where I'm wrong.

This is not your/my thead to do that in.

203-345-6499 - Im available now and will gladly take your phone call.

[Acejam]

This is not your/my thead to do that in.

203-345-6499 - Im available now and will gladly take your phone call.

If you're going to publicly tell me I'm wrong, I'd like for you publicly show why. I think we can both agree we're past thread ownership at this point. Besides, I'm not the only one who holds this view. I simply responded to the OP who clearly had the same concern, so I think this thread is more than relevant.

[LittleDozer]

I'm not an EPL customer myself so I can only report on what I see. Yes - these are owners flashing their cars. I wasn't aware EPL had dealers?

If you flashed a year ago and haven't touched the ECU since then, you've likely missed out on EPL updates. Not one, but multiple. If that cycle keeps repeating itself, then one can only assume that means the file you are in fact currently running was never really fully ready. There's a difference between point updates once or twice a year, and pushing a new update every few weeks.

....you mean like when people had V1 APR Stage 2 and would get walked but EPL Stage 1? :)

Difference is the APR folks had to go into a shop and pay to have their flash updated. All of these tuners now have solid tunes at this point anyways. I have seen plenty of APR and GIAC folks with CELs too. And almost every time it's related to hardware. I've had CELs and it was harware.

Also you don't have a $60k car, probably more like $35k. If you are so worried about it, don't mod it.

[Loe]

So I decided to give Unitronic a shot. I have mixed feelings about my choice. I was really attracted by the Uniconnect as the power to flash on my own seemed very attractive. I saw a video on YouTube of a guy flashing his car and it looked pretty well done. I have to say it really is slick and works really well. They did a great job on the software.

That said, while I researched all the tuners dyno charts, and 1/4 miles, and while it helped to influence my purchase those details aren't entirely what drove me. I don't want my car to feel like a race car, just to feel like how it should have come from the factory. I felt like I wanted the little extra bump a Stage 1 tune gives paired with a TCU tune to raise my shift points to 7000rpm and manual mode downshifts disabled. Other than tuning from home I felt like no matter which tuner I went with I could probably achieve this. Maybe rather than assuming I should have posed the question directly. [o_o]

My car is a B8.5 with DSG.

I went Stage 1 to start. Right away you could notice the difference. Where the car started to feel like it ran out of steam around 4k rpm pre stage 1 this thing just keeps pulling now. It will hang pretty decent with my friends RS5 now where it was a total annihilation before. My only gripe would be that in Auto/Drive the throttle felt a little sharper than stock and I wished it would have retained that stock smoothness a bit. Felt almost like Sport mode but in Drive.

Next item on the list was to get the shift points raised to 7000rpm so I could get the most out of the tune. I read through their site and bought the stage 1 TCU (but have never flashed it) which is supposed to match their Stage 1 ECU better. Wasn't until after the purchase I noticed the stupid chart telling me it didn't raise shift points. Even after asking the guys at Unitronic I still don't understand what the purpose of the Stage 1 TCU tune is. It has the same details as Stage 2 TCU but retains the stock shift points? Neither disables auto downshifts in manual mode. Is that worth $700?

Well my answer to that question was to part with another $150 and get the Stage 2 TCU. Flashed. Auto/Drive mode is amazing now. It smoothed that extra sharpness I got with the Stage 1 and made it feel like stock again. Now it just keeps pulling past 4k rpm. Feels great! Dynamic/Sport on the other hand is less ideal. I find it gets hung up during upshifts sometimes. Most noticeably around 3-4 shift. According to John this could be caused by flashing Stage 2 TCU when it clearly states it pairs with Stage 1+ and Stage 2 ECU vs my Stage 1. Something I'll have to try I guess. I don't want to run Stage 1+ on an ongoing basis because I prefer to run 91. Unfortunately I'm starting to deviate from my flash and enjoy experience in my old car with APR. Not to say APR is any better on this platform but I'm not as happy as I thought I'd be. Why cant I have a 91 octane car with a 7k rpm shift point and manual downshifts disabled? The sunny side to Unitronic is truly the flash from home. I can at least avoid annoying trips to the tuner while I play with the flashes. I'd probably be angry otherwise.

So anyway, if you are like me and want a stock feeling car, this combo is not working out so far for me. I'll play with it a bit and see if it doesn't get any better. Anyone with APR or GIAC stage 1 cars with TCU in the Toronto area? I'd love to see how they compare.

One thing you may want to do is to reflash the ECU tune after you flashed your TCU tune. Then after 50 or so miles of driving (to allow OBD2 emissions "readiness" for the cats, o2 sensors, etc etc..) to give it a few WOT runs throughout the gears. That should smooth out your upshifts, if not 100%, at least minimize the effects of what you are describing.

Great choice on your tune, many folks have been happy with it and their recent release of the TCU file was just what was needed to keep their development going. Interested to see what they continue to bring with their current on-going development of their dual-pulley file; I know Rob had good results running an 11.5 out of the box in 9xx D/A.

[Acejam]

....you mean like when people had V1 APR Stage 2 and would get walked but EPL Stage 1? :)

Difference is the APR folks had to go into a shop and pay to have their flash updated. All of these tuners now have solid tunes at this point anyways. I have seen plenty of APR and GIAC folks with CELs too. And almost every time it's related to hardware. I've had CELs and it was harware.

Also you don't have a $60k car, probably more like $35k. If you are so worried about it, don't mod it.

1. It's possible I missed it, but no one is arguing about past or present performance here. Just because a tune is fast doesn't mean it's also safe.
2. It's up to the APR dealer if they choose to charge for flash updates. My APR dealer does not.
3. It may very well be hardware related. Speaking of that, didn't you blow your DSG transmission? Or was it just simply slipping? Do you suspect your DSG tune had anything to do with it?
4. I just want something that's been fully tested to the extreme.

The reality is I'm an APR customer and I'm happy with my experience thus far. But I'm thinking long term about my power goals and I started to try and look a bit harder into EPL recently as a future option, especially during their Black Friday sale. The comments I previously mentioned above are some of what I consider to be the red flags that I found. But as I already stated, please show me where I'm wrong.

[whiped]

You guys are so bitter. My opinion FWIW:

Uni offering different "stages" of an ECU tune is silly. It should all be wrapped into one cost and allow you to customize shift points, manual shifting and LC settings. However, I applaud them for even offering it.

I think comparing EPL's tune to SaaS is fair but you are being overly critical of the cons vs the pros.

All of the tuners are taking a slightly different approach which is excellent. When they fuck up, call them out on there shit but don't chastise them for using a different business model.

[bmoreS4]

If you're going to publicly tell me I'm wrong, I'd like for you publicly show why. I think we can both agree we're past thread ownership at this point. Besides, I'm not the only one who holds this view. I simply responded to the OP who clearly had the same concern, so I think this thread is more than relevant.

You are they one making false statements and incorrect assumptions, so you are the one that needs to prove validity to your statements.

Stop making yourself look silly. If you want answers call Tony.

[LittleDozer]

1. It's possible I missed it, but no one is arguing about past or present performance here. Just because a tune is fast doesn't mean it's also safe.
2. It's up to the APR dealer if they choose to charge for flash updates. My APR dealer does not.
3. It may very well be hardware related. Speaking of that, didn't you blow your DSG transmission? Or was it just simply slipping? Do you suspect your DSG tune had anything to do with it?
4. I just want something that's been fully tested to the extreme.

The reality is I'm an APR customer and I'm happy with my experience thus far. But I'm thinking long term about my power goals and I started to try and look a bit harder into EPL recently as a future option, especially during their Black Friday sale. The comments I previously mentioned above are some of what I consider to be the red flags that I found. But as I already stated, please show me where I'm wrong.

1. Well you mentioned that EPL isn't a complete tune because they do updates. Yet they outperformed APR even on stage 1 vs stage 2 back in the day. So obviously APR didn't come out with a "complete" tune and people had to get theirs updated to keep up. That's what I'm trying to say.

2. A lot of them charge $50 per flash. So $100 if you need to go to a dealer (flash to stock then back to Stage 1/2)

3. No, just had slip when I went with Dual pulley E85. Did my DSG service and it went away. The TCU tune actually helps with the slip because it increases clamp force. I had issues with my DSG though (clunking) when it was bone stock upon purchase.

4. Tony doesn't allow the tunes to go out of factory limits. You'd need to ask him about testing process.

[LittleDozer]

No tuner is perfect. But basically your perspective of EPL in one bucket vs all other tuners in the other bucket is really skewed.

[Acejam]

No tuner is perfect. But basically your perspective of EPL in one bucket vs all other tuners in the other bucket is really skewed.

All the research information I found on EPL primarily comes from this forum with 40+ page threads and other various scattered ones. No website with information, no real social media presence. (other than videos and pics) If you all say I'm so wrong, then perhaps this is one of the reasons why my view is so skewed?

[LittleDozer]

All the research information I found on EPL primarily comes from this forum with 40+ page threads and other various scattered ones. No website with information, no real social media presence. (other than videos and pics) If you all say I'm so wrong, then perhaps this is one of the reasons why my view is so skewed?

I'll agree with you on that. We have all told Tony to get a website.

[CrownSeven]

Step 1) - Random new thread regarding <insert brand name here> tune get posted
Step 2) - Response recommending EPL tune (coincidentally, the very first response in this thread, impressive)
Step 3) - Make popcorn.
Step 4) - EPL Defense Force ASSEMBLE!

Just another fine day on vendorzine.

[whiped]

Step 1) - Random new thread regarding <insert brand name here> tune get posted
Step 2) - Response recommending EPL tune (coincidentally, the very first response in this thread, impressive)
Step 3) - Make popcorn.
Step 4) - EPL Defense Force ASSEMBLE!

Just another fine day on vendorzine.

You forgot the beer. [:D]

On a thread related note, Uni actually has a very nice site.

[LittleDozer]

Step 1) - Random new thread regarding <insert brand name here> tune get posted
Step 2) - Response recommending EPL tune (coincidentally, the very first response in this thread, impressive)
Step 3) - Make popcorn.
Step 4) - EPL Defense Force ASSEMBLE!

Just another fine day on vendorzine.

:D

You missed out on...

Step 2.5: anecdotal evidence used to bash tuner.

Then 3 and 4 happen.

[Acejam]

:D

You missed out on...

Step 2.5: anecdotal evidence used to bash tuner.

Then 3 and 4 happen.

Have you driven by and checked out EPL before? I have. [:)]

[LittleDozer]

Have you driven by and checked out EPL before? I have. [:)]

Sorry bud but not even sure what you're trying to get at.

[Garro]

All I know is that both companies rock for Tuning our cars. I have Unitronic Stage 2 and use 93 Octane and 20 percent ethanol E85 and it kicks ass. I am sure EPL and APR are similarly great. Unitronic also updates it's software but you only find out on reflagging, would be nice of a group email could be sent but they choose not to. After flashing the TCU the ECU should always be flashed also.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[carlitod87]

On another note I'm installing unitronic stage 2 ecu, tcu, cts pulley, awe intake and apr cooler on Saturday. I'll let you know how the tune feels.

[doug97gxe]

EPL Owner who never had a CEL checking in....

You guys amaze me, you would rather a tuner give you a shitty dead tune to live with for life than one that actually explores and tries to improve the performance.

EPL CEL's are due to too much E85 as it is with any other tune. Tony was the first one who noticed the Cat issue on the B8.5's then a month later Audi acknowledged it and put out a TSB.

Funny thing is its always APR owners who have shit to say about EPL, while waiting for APR to put out this huge release

[Acejam]

Sorry bud but not even sure what you're trying to get at.

I've seen EPL's space before when I visited XLR8 once (granted it was several months ago), so some of my previous comments are based upon that. I'm still waiting for Tony to respond and set me straight. It would be good to sort this out so others like me don't go and try to do research and draw similar conclusions. (If what I am saying is in fact truly wrong)

In response to your website comment - I didn't know that. But that would've greatly helped in this scenario.

[jprice]

I'm still waiting for Tony to respond and set me straight.
I think it would be more productive if you just called him or stopped out there again and talked to him in person, then post afterward. Trying to hash this stuff out on a forum is painfully slow and would likely be interrupted a million times by the peanut gallery, and as a result be useless to anyone trying to actually search and find the info.

[Tony@EPL]

I've seen EPL's space before when I visited XLR8 once (granted it was several months ago), so some of my previous comments are based upon that. I'm still waiting for Tony to respond and set me straight. It would be good to sort this out so others like me don't go and try to do research and draw similar conclusions. (If what I am saying is in fact truly wrong)

In response to your website comment - I didn't know that. But that would've greatly helped in this scenario.

No thanks. Its clear you're an apr customer that doesnt think highly of myself or my company. Nothing positive will come of "setting you straight".

Have a great evening and stop by next time your at xlr8. Id love to buy you a coffee and discuss.

[Acejam]

I think it would be more productive if you just called him or stopped out there again and talked to him in person, then post afterward. Trying to hash this stuff out on a forum is painfully slow and would likely be interrupted a million times by the peanut gallery, and as a result be useless to anyone trying to actually search and find the info.

I don't discount that. But making it public also puts all this "incorrect information" to bed since it's coming from a primary source. I don't want to hash anything out. I just want to the truth from Tony, in writing, so we can all benefit from it.


No thanks. Its clear you're an apr customer that doesnt think highly of myself or my company. Nothing positive will come of "setting you straight".

Have a great evening and stop by next time your at xlr8. Id love to buy you a coffee and discuss.

I am an APR customer, as I stated above. I also stated above that I started looking into EPL because I was searching out (and still am) dual-pulley options.

I clearly made a statement that rubbed you the wrong way. Why are you resisting to publicly tell me why I'm wrong? All of this "in-person" and "by-phone" only stuff sounds fishy to me. Can you not see that?

You can't tell someone they are wrong but then not tell them why.

[doug97gxe]

Are you shocked you rubbed him the wrong the way? This isn't is hobby or his part time job this is his lively hood and how he takes care of his family.. if someone came to your job and told your boss you were a child molester based on something they assumed based on a forum post I'm sure you would be rubbed the wrong as well

It's certainly possible to be told you you're wrong without an explanation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Acejam]

Are you shocked you rubbed him the wrong the way? This isn't is hobby or his part time job this is his lively hood and how he takes care of his family.. if someone came to your job and told your boss you were a child molester based on something they assumed based on a forum post I'm sure you would be rubbed the wrong as well

It's certainly possible to be told you you're wrong without an explanation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am indeed shocked that he claimed 100% of what I said is wrong. What your example fails to touch on is that EPL is present on a public forum actively selling their product. This a complete different scenario. Someone questions their product and they're immediately shot down by what everyone refers to as the "EPL fanboys" and Tony himself. That "someone" right now is me, but I came across multiple threads previously during my research where that "someone" was someone else. The point is, I'm not alone with this "skewed" view.

Why doesn't EPL address these concerns and put everyone (not just his customers, but potential ones too) at ease and clear up the mis-information?

If anything, EPL is wrong for telling me I'm wrong without giving me a valid explanation. But a private explanation is OK? How does that NOT seem sketchy to any current or future customer?

If you're going to "give it", you better be able to "take it".


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[The Fat Kid]

Are you shocked you rubbed him the wrong the way? This isn't is hobby or his part time job this is his lively hood and how he takes care of his family.. if someone came to your job and told your boss you were a child molester based on something they assumed based on a forum post I'm sure you would be rubbed the wrong as well

It's certainly possible to be told you you're wrong without an explanation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/9f/9f2eeb0e221b0f8d1cf270ee7e6c6c18aab7716618984e61c7 fcfae02e8ca55d.jpg

[doug97gxe]

I am indeed shocked that he claimed 100% of what I said is wrong. What your example fails to touch on is that EPL is present on a public forum actively selling their product. This a complete different scenario. Someone questions their product and they're immediately shot down by what everyone refers to as the "EPL fanboys" and Tony himself. That "someone" right now is me, but I came across multiple threads previously during my research where that "someone" was someone else. The point is, I'm not alone with this "skewed" view.

Why doesn't EPL address these concerns and put everyone (not just his customers, but potential ones too) at ease and clear up the mis-information?

If anything, EPL is wrong for telling me I'm wrong without giving me a valid explanation. But a private explanation is OK? How does that NOT seem sketchy to any current or future customer?

If you're going to "give it", you better be able to "take it".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it seems that most of the owners of cars with tunes with problems with EPL or how they do their business are not actually owners of EPL tunes.. with the exception of 4 people i can think of who were not happy and switched tunes.

There are two types of modders.. run of the mill and innovators. GIAC and EPL Owners seem to be innovators and risk takers, APR and Revo owners seem to be run of the mill. APR and Revo owners would rather a tune for life thats 100% stable. GIAC and EPL owners are always looking for more safe power. Who you are is who you are not everyone is the same.

[JD S4]

I am indeed shocked that he claimed 100% of what I said is wrong. What your example fails to touch on is that EPL is present on a public forum actively selling their product. This a complete different scenario. Someone questions their product and they're immediately shot down by what everyone refers to as the "EPL fanboys" and Tony himself. That "someone" right now is me, but I came across multiple threads previously during my research where that "someone" was someone else. The point is, I'm not alone with this "skewed" view.

Why doesn't EPL address these concerns and put everyone (not just his customers, but potential ones too) at ease and clear up the mis-information?

If anything, EPL is wrong for telling me I'm wrong without giving me a valid explanation. But a private explanation is OK? How does that NOT seem sketchy to any current or future customer?

If you're going to "give it", you better be able to "take it".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LMAO @ all of this. I don't care what tune you choose - but it's pretty hilarious to watch you tell someone how to run their business and communicate.

[EHesh14]

When you go stage 2, you will kick your friend in the rs5's tooshie. I continually beat a stock rs5 here in town 3x in a row and it wasn't even close :)

[Acejam]

it seems that most of the owners of cars with tunes with problems with EPL or how they do their business are not actually owners of EPL tunes.. with the exception of 4 people i can think of who were not happy and switched tunes.

There are two types of modders.. run of the mill and innovators. GIAC and EPL Owners seem to be innovators and risk takers, APR and Revo owners seem to be run of the mill. APR and Revo owners would rather a tune for life thats 100% stable. GIAC and EPL owners are always looking for more safe power. Who you are is who you are not everyone is the same.

I 100% agree with you on everyone not being the same. People have choice, that's the greatness of a free market.

However all my comments have been made directly towards EPL, not Tony himself. Per your previous comment, I cannot control how upset Tony may or may not get from forum talk. If he gets that upset, it just proves the point that he is that much closer to the customer, but it also proves my point about being a one-man tuning operation, wherein my concern lies with how much testing is truly performed for the many platforms he does support.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Acejam]

LMAO @ all of this. I don't care what tune you choose - but it's pretty hilarious to watch you tell someone how to run their business and communicate.

I'm just comparing them to every other tuner out there for the B8.5 S4. Is that an unfair thing to do?

Easy to draw conclusions with websites and product information. Hard to draw them based on scattered forum threads. Honestly that's likely the reason for this whole thing to begin with, but EPL chooses not to inform me and salvage a potential customer for whatever reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JD S4]

I'm just comparing them to every other tuner out there for the B8.5 S4. Is that an unfair thing to do?

Easy to draw conclusions with websites and product information. Hard to draw them based on scattered forum threads. Honestly that's likely the reason for this whole thing to begin with, but EPL chooses not to inform me and salvage a potential customer for whatever reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm sure you can see the irony of your request, right? For Tony to answer YOU in a "scattered forum thread" about YOUR specific questions?

"I'm super upset I can't find any info other than forums so please answer me immediately on my terms on this forum"

No horse in the race for me. I've been an EPL customer for 24 hours and I could give zero fucks who you choose.

[doug97gxe]

I 100% agree with you on everyone not being the same. People have choice, that's the greatness of a free market.

However all my comments have been made directly towards EPL, not Tony himself. Per your previous comment, I cannot control how upset Tony may or may not get from forum talk. If he gets that upset, it just proves the point that he is that much closer to the customer, but it also proves my point about being a one-man tuning operation, wherein my concern lies with how much testing is truly performed for the many platforms he does support.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i don't think he is upset.. but you're statement is a double edge sword... if he gets upset then he is wrong.. if he doesn't get upset then he doesn't care. My statement was if i was in Tony's shoes and if slander to my company could stop food from my family's table i don't actually know if tony is upset or not.. from what i can say from meeting him in person he appears to actually be a pretty laid back, patient and low tempered guy

[bhvrdr]

All the research information I found on EPL primarily comes from this forum with 40+ page threads and other various scattered ones. No website with information, no real social media presence. (other than videos and pics) If you all say I'm so wrong, then perhaps this is one of the reasons why my view is so skewed?

It could be or it could be a tendency that many of us can have when reviewing information...thats kind of magnifying the information that confirms our bias and minimizing the information that disputes it.

There are gigantic threads dedicated to shifting issues with APR that havent been resolved for over a year. Both GIAC and APR crapped the bed on the 2014 and 2015 box codes performance wise until their updates that gave the advertised power. APR exhausts had what appears to be barbie doll hair in them as their uber expensive RSC technology. To date APR has still not even given the B8.5 customers the option to program switch from 93 to 100 octane. This is not to say APR is a bad tuner obviously. Indeed they are one of the best for our platform. That being said, EPL customers have had their issues too as well as apparently Unitronic customers judging from the OP.

I see your point about the cons of dealing with a smaller tuner... ie, lack of ability to do as extensive of first hand testing as you might like or have the same resources. There are pros as well... ala custom tuning or being able to try out new pulley ratios. The big companies have their pros and cons too. They have to charge the customer big money to pay for all of the expensive toys they have (like a company airplane, lol) and the "teams" of people they have employed. They are not likely to be able to give everyone personalized service/custom tunes. They may not be able to push out updates they know are greatly needed as well because the "pencil pushers" in charge dictate what project gets priority. Just because they are big you may not see a critical update for a year or more, etc, etc, etc. Point is all the credible tuners out there have pros and cons but are generally a great asset that will be able to retain a loyal customer base.. I would consider EPL a credible tuner.

Mike

[doug97gxe]

I'm just comparing them to every other tuner out there for the B8.5 S4. Is that an unfair thing to do?

Easy to draw conclusions with websites and product information. Hard to draw them based on scattered forum threads. Honestly that's likely the reason for this whole thing to begin with, but EPL chooses not to inform me and salvage a potential customer for whatever reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

so based on your metrics and model Revo is a better Tune than EPL because

- Revo hasn't touched their tune in over 3 years (Good)
- EPL has a stable Stage 2 tune but then revises it because of Audi Cat issue (Bad)
- Prime time tests dual pulley with APR (3 years ago) and still hasn't released their dual pulley setup aka ultra chager (Good)
- EPL offers beta tune to their customers with logging and testing and even strikes deal with pulley manufacturers for anyone with any tune (Bad)
- GIAC offers beta tune to their customers with logging and testing (Good)
- EPL customers want to run E85 mix, Tony suggests 3 gallons but innovators test more than 3 get CEL's (Bad)
- EPL customers FULL E85 Tune with additional Hardware suggestions (Bad)
- EPL customers who want more than the standard run of the mill Stage 2 tune send Tony their logs for custom tunes (Bad)

see EPL seems bad because they are most active.. but hey.. i digress

[doug97gxe]

It could be or it could be a tendency that many of us can have when reviewing information...thats kind of magnifying the information that confirms our bias and minimizing the information that disputes it.

There are gigantic threads dedicated to shifting issues with APR that havent been resolved for over a year. Both GIAC and APR crapped the bed on the 2014 and 2015 box codes performance wise until their updates that gave the advertised power. APR exhausts had what appears to be barbie doll hair in them as their uber expensive RSC technology. To date APR has still not even given the B8.5 customers the option to program switch from 93 to 100 octane. This is not to say APR is a bad tuner obviously. Indeed they are one of the best for our platform. That being said, EPL customers have had their issues too as well as apparently Unitronic customers judging from the OP.

I see your point about the cons of dealing with a smaller tuner... ie, lack of ability to do as extensive of first hand testing as you might like or have the same resources. There are pros as well... ala custom tuning or being able to try out new pulley ratios. The big companies have their pros and cons too. They have to charge the customer big money to pay for all of the expensive toys they have (like a company airplane, lol) and the "teams" of people they have employed. They are not likely to be able to give everyone personalized service/custom tunes. They may not be able to push out updates they know are greatly needed as well because the "pencil pushers" in charge dictate what project gets priority. Just because they are big you may not see a critical update for a year or more, etc, etc, etc. Point is all the credible tuners out there have pros and cons but are generally a great asset that will be able to retain a loyal customer base.. I would consider EPL a credible tuner.

Mike

mike this is a very nice post based on you and Tony and us EPL Owners have bumped heads before.. this is an excellent post

[bhvrdr]

mike this is a very nice post based on you and Tony and us EPL Owners have bumped heads before.. this is an excellent post

If we wrote off tuners because of singular issues we've had at one time or another there would be no tuners anymore :)

Mike

[JD S4]

so based on your metrics and model Revo is a better Tune than EPL because

- Revo hasn't touched their tune in over 3 years (Good)
- EPL has a stable Stage 2 tune but then revises it because of Audi Cat issue (Bad)
- Prime time tests dual pulley with APR (3 years ago) and still hasn't released their dual pulley setup aka ultra chager (Good)
- EPL offers beta tune to their customers with logging and testing and even strikes deal with pulley manufacturers for anyone with any tune (Bad)
- GIAC offers beta tune to their customers with logging and testing (Good)
- EPL customers want to run E85 mix, Tony suggests 3 gallons but innovators test more than 3 get CEL's (Bad)
- EPL customers FULL E85 Tune with additional Hardware suggestions (Bad)
- EPL customers who want more than the standard run of the mill Stage 2 tune send Tony their logs for custom tunes (Bad)

see EPL seems bad because they are most active.. but hey.. i digress

Every single thread you are into turns to shit.. Doesn't matter the subject.. You're a troll.. And you seem quite miserable in general.. You should knock it off

[doug97gxe]

Every single thread you are into turns to shit.. Doesn't matter the subject.. You're a troll.. And you seem quite miserable in general.. You should knock it off

you realize i'm in support of Tony right? i'm really confused right now.. where is this coming from?

[JD S4]

you realize i'm in support of Tony right? i'm really confused right now

I don't care who you are in support of. I'm making a general statement. Every thread I see you in, regardless of topic/content turns to shit..

Knock it off.

[doug97gxe]

I don't care who you are in support of. I'm making a general statement. Every thread I see you in, regardless of topic/content turns to shit..

Knock it off.

there is an ignore button.. i suggest you use it.. have a good day sir

[LittleDozer]

so based on your metrics and model Revo is a better Tune than EPL because

- Revo hasn't touched their tune in over 3 years (Good)
- EPL has a stable Stage 2 tune but then revises it because of Audi Cat issue (Bad)
- Prime time tests dual pulley with APR (3 years ago) and still hasn't released their dual pulley setup aka ultra chager (Good)
- EPL offers beta tune to their customers with logging and testing and even strikes deal with pulley manufacturers for anyone with any tune (Bad)
- GIAC offers beta tune to their customers with logging and testing (Good)
- EPL customers want to run E85 mix, Tony suggests 3 gallons but innovators test more than 3 get CEL's (Bad)
- EPL customers FULL E85 Tune with additional Hardware suggestions (Bad)
- EPL customers who want more than the standard run of the mill Stage 2 tune send Tony their logs for custom tunes (Bad)

see EPL seems bad because they are most active.. but hey.. i digress

This


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LittleDozer]

It could be or it could be a tendency that many of us can have when reviewing information...thats kind of magnifying the information that confirms our bias and minimizing the information that disputes it.

There are gigantic threads dedicated to shifting issues with APR that havent been resolved for over a year. Both GIAC and APR crapped the bed on the 2014 and 2015 box codes performance wise until their updates that gave the advertised power. APR exhausts had what appears to be barbie doll hair in them as their uber expensive RSC technology. To date APR has still not even given the B8.5 customers the option to program switch from 93 to 100 octane. This is not to say APR is a bad tuner obviously. Indeed they are one of the best for our platform. That being said, EPL customers have had their issues too as well as apparently Unitronic customers judging from the OP.

I see your point about the cons of dealing with a smaller tuner... ie, lack of ability to do as extensive of first hand testing as you might like or have the same resources. There are pros as well... ala custom tuning or being able to try out new pulley ratios. The big companies have their pros and cons too. They have to charge the customer big money to pay for all of the expensive toys they have (like a company airplane, lol) and the "teams" of people they have employed. They are not likely to be able to give everyone personalized service/custom tunes. They may not be able to push out updates they know are greatly needed as well because the "pencil pushers" in charge dictate what project gets priority. Just because they are big you may not see a critical update for a year or more, etc, etc, etc. Point is all the credible tuners out there have pros and cons but are generally a great asset that will be able to retain a loyal customer base.. I would consider EPL a credible tuner.

Mike

This too. Would have brought it up but didn't feel it was worth the effort :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Acejam]

I'm sure you can see the irony of your request, right? For Tony to answer YOU in a "scattered forum thread" about YOUR specific questions?

"I'm super upset I can't find any info other than forums so please answer me immediately on my terms on this forum"

No horse in the race for me. I've been an EPL customer for 24 hours and I could give zero fucks who you choose.

Sure, I can definitely see some irony in that. I didn't look at it that way. Thanks for bringing it to light. Many of the scattered forum threads I found don't have any responses from EPL. EPL is present here.

Let's assume I am 100% wrong. Clearly I came up with this skewed view somehow, I didn't pull it out of thin air. I likely read bad information. So let's make sure there is correct information present for myself and others. This is a community discussion forum after all. There is nothing to loose and everything to gain. EPL has offered to provide me with information but only privately, and I'm questioning why. Am I at fault for that? All I'm left to think is that some of my points are in fact true, and EPL doesn't want that information public.

Comparatively, I hop on the phone with EPL and get info, then come back here and post it. Given the response of this thread alone, I'm bound to get a few people who will still say that I'm wrong, and this thread is tame compared to some of the other EPL and other tuner threads I came across! I can't win either way. Transparency is paramount!


so based on your metrics and model Revo is a better Tune than EPL because

- Revo hasn't touched their tune in over 3 years (Good)
- EPL has a stable Stage 2 tune but then revises it because of Audi Cat issue (Bad)
- Prime time tests dual pulley with APR (3 years ago) and still hasn't released their dual pulley setup aka ultra chager (Good)
- EPL offers beta tune to their customers with logging and testing and even strikes deal with pulley manufacturers for anyone with any tune (Bad)
- GIAC offers beta tune to their customers with logging and testing (Good)
- EPL customers want to run E85 mix, Tony suggests 3 gallons but innovators test more than 3 get CEL's (Bad)
- EPL customers FULL E85 Tune with additional Hardware suggestions (Bad)
- EPL customers who want more than the standard run of the mill Stage 2 tune send Tony their logs for custom tunes (Bad)

see EPL seems bad because they are most active.. but hey.. i digress

You are misinterpreting what I'm saying. Many of your points I would not agree with, so that is most certainly not my logic. Fixing tunes due to the Audi cat issues and offering the ability to opt-in for Beta testing of all kinds I think are both great. So is the dual-pulley development they've done. Again, this is the whole reason I looked at EPL in the first place - I cannot stress this enough! I'm merely concerned with the level of testing on files they have released! When was the last time you saw a set of release notes or dyno graphs from EPL themselves?

I recognize it's 3 years old, but this thread reminds me of an early B8 EPL thread that I read through several times during my research. I'm most certainly not alone in my thinking: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/543949-EPL-B8-S4-Stage-1-Flash-Special-Limited-Quantity

[doug97gxe]

Sure, I can definitely see some irony in that. I didn't look at it that way. Thanks for bringing it to light. Many of the scattered forum threads I found don't have any responses from EPL. EPL is present here.

Let's assume I am 100% wrong. Clearly I came up with this skewed view somehow, I didn't pull it out of thin air. I likely read bad information. So let's make sure there is correct information present for myself and others. This is a community discussion forum after all. There is nothing to loose and everything to gain. EPL has offered to provide me with information but only privately, and I'm questioning why. Am I at fault for that? All I'm left to think is that some of my points are in fact true, and EPL doesn't want that information public.

Comparatively, I hop on the phone with EPL and get info, then come back here and post it. Given the response of this thread alone, I'm bound to get a few people who will still say that I'm wrong, and this thread is tame compared to some of the other EPL and other tuner threads I came across! I can't win either way. Transparency is paramount!



You are misinterpreting what I'm saying. Many of your points I would not agree with, so that is most certainly not my logic. Fixing tunes due to the Audi cat issues and offering the ability to opt-in for Beta testing of all kinds I think are both great. So is the dual-pulley development they've done. Again, this is the whole reason I looked at EPL in the first place - I cannot stress this enough! I'm merely concerned with the level of testing on files they have released! When was the last time you saw a set of release notes or dyno graphs from EPL themselves?

I recognize it's 3 years old, but this thread reminds me of an early B8 EPL thread that I read through several times during my research. I'm most certainly not alone in my thinking: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/543949-EPL-B8-S4-Stage-1-Flash-Special-Limited-Quantity

All in all i hear you.. i as an EPL customer has been very satisfied with Tony and his work but as you said we have the right to choose who and how we do business with.

[SportVier]

It could be or it could be a tendency that many of us can have when reviewing information...thats kind of magnifying the information that confirms our bias and minimizing the information that disputes it.

You think that goes on around here? [;)]

[Loe]

Both GIAC and APR crapped the bed on the 2014 and 2015 box codes performance wise until their updates that gave the advertised power.

Mike

none sense, that never happened..... ..... .... [:D][o_o] APR/GIAC are perfect lol

love how the thread got derailed, hopefully the O/P was able to look through some advice. If not:

O/P try reflashing your ECU now that you flashed your TCU. That may smooth out things. Let the ECU adapt for a good 50 miles and give it a few WOT runs though the gears; that should lessen any odd shift behaviors. If not, send John @ Unitronic and email, he is quite responsive to emails and dedicated to making the program work.

[Tony@EPL]

I 100% agree with you on everyone not being the same. People have choice, that's the greatness of a free market.

However all my comments have been made directly towards EPL, not Tony himself. Per your previous comment, I cannot control how upset Tony may or may not get from forum talk. If he gets that upset, it just proves the point that he is that much closer to the customer, but it also proves my point about being a one-man tuning operation, wherein my concern lies with how much testing is truly performed for the many platforms he does support.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Currently we have 3 open platforms for development. You continue to bring up the fact that Im a "one-man tuning operation" and try to point out that I couldn't possibly spend enough time in testing , which isnt true, but lets go with it for a second.....

Current open development platforms are all 3.0t models, are 4.0t models and certain MQB 2.0t models. You are looking at "One Man" to 3 platforms for testing and tuning (3 to 1). Compare that ratio to other tuners in this industry and you will see that we (I say we because Im not a "one-man tuning operation") have ample time for development, testing and tuning. Other tuners in the 3.0t market support MANY more platforms with 1 or 2 staffed tuners. Yes we sell legacy products and may do a custome tune or two here or there, but it has always be our policy to have 3-4 open development platform at any given time.

In addition to limiting markets, we also for the first 10 years in business a full operation repair/installation/tuning facility. ~18 Months or so ago we shut down service to allow for MORE time for TUNING only. This had allow 100% of our efforts to be focused on tuning ONLY. Not service, manufacturing or parts sales....TUNING.

You mentioned earlier other tuners take "Teams" to the track to "break" cars to find limits and test products. Who? When? To my knowledge EPL is the only tuner in this market thats ever rented (or in some cases co-rented) an entire track (several times actually in the last 12 years in business) for product testing.

You also mentioned we should be using our our own cars for development and not "beta'ing" on customers... Well, we have. We owned a B8 for 4+ years and took 18 months to develop our stage 1 program that at the time of release was market competitive with other stage 2. I put 77k on that car in 44 moths of ownership. Currently we use one of our ex employees cars for testing when necessary (much the same as 2 other tuners you mentioned in this thread).

I tried to not comment in this thread because it was started to discuss another tuner who I respect and am friendly with. Please, if you dont know something about a company in this industry, done assume, ask.

[def]

Wow this thread sure took on a life of its own.

Just felt like venting the fact that I'm not a 100% sold on the TCU tune from Unitronic. Not a fan of the 2 stage TCU tune and how unclear what you are getting is. No idea why you'd buy a TCU tune that doesn't raise the shift points and costs you $700? So really you want the $850 tune... I mean a 2 stage TCU tune could make total sense to me. Stage 1 would be for Stage 1 cars where holding the power is less concern. You want raised shifts points to get the most out of the power band. Maybe manual up/downshifts disabled. Done. Stage 2 you get aggressive with shift optimizations and quicker manual mode shifts and what ever else. The sort of stuff that you have to be a little beyond "enthusiast" to appreciate...Then if you do have little niggly shift issues you chalk it up to being on the bleeding edge of the 1/4 mile.

Was also wondering. Is it obvious to everyone else why B8 gets 7200rpm shift point while B8.5 gets 7000rpm?

From a tweaking perspective, EPL seems attractive, and Unitronic seems to be open to it as well for the most part. But depending where you live it's not always as easy as pulling out of your driveway and ripping through the gears in your neighbourhood to make sure the car behaves right. Mostly its off ramp pulls or special areas (tracks) that you have to plan in advance. At that point tweaking stuff starts getting a little bothersome. Again maybe that's a really good opportunity for the 2 staged TCU application.

One other thing since I'm blasting questions. Do any of the other tuning options with Stage 1 and stock TCU tend to have a more aggressive throttle feel in Auto/Drive mode? Wondering if that's a Unitronic thing?




One thing you may want to do is to reflash the ECU tune after you flashed your TCU tune. Then after 50 or so miles of driving (to allow OBD2 emissions "readiness" for the cats, o2 sensors, etc etc..) to give it a few WOT runs throughout the gears. That should smooth out your upshifts, if not 100%, at least minimize the effects of what you are describing.

Great choice on your tune, many folks have been happy with it and their recent release of the TCU file was just what was needed to keep their development going. Interested to see what they continue to bring with their current on-going development of their dual-pulley file; I know Rob had good results running an 11.5 out of the box in 9xx D/A.

Thanks for the tip Loe. I actually just ran my car down to reserve and pumped it full of 94 octane. I'll likely try the 93 octane tune and see if that results in some smoother shifts. I'll report back my findings. If it works better I'll try flash back to 91 octane again and see if that made a difference.

[Sukks2bu]

After flashing the TCU the ECU should always be flashed also.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

Sorry to interrupt, but let's talk unitronics for a second.
Garro, I asked John specifically do we need to reflash the ecu after a tcu flash and he said it wasn't necessary.

[LittleDozer]

Sorry to interrupt, but let's talk unitronics for a second.
Garro, I asked John specifically do we need to reflash the ecu after a tcu flash and he said it wasn't necessary.

Clearing all DTCs through vagcom also works. From what I've heard it's because some sort of DTCs can be stored when flashing the TCU tune and things can run funny if they're not overwritten? Flashing ECU gets rid of them.

I am no expert, just relaying what I think I heard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sukks2bu]

I am indeed shocked that he claimed 100% of what I said is wrong. What your example fails to touch on is that EPL is present on a public forum actively selling their product. This a complete different scenario. Someone questions their product and they're immediately shot down by what everyone refers to as the "EPL fanboys" and Tony himself. That "someone" right now is me, but I came across multiple threads previously during my research where that "someone" was someone else. The point is, I'm not alone with this "skewed" view.

Why doesn't EPL address these concerns and put everyone (not just his customers, but potential ones too) at ease and clear up the mis-information?

If anything, EPL is wrong for telling me I'm wrong without giving me a valid explanation. But a private explanation is OK? How does that NOT seem sketchy to any current or future customer?

If you're going to "give it", you better be able to "take it".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why don't you guys go discuss this on an epl thread, so that those of us with unitronics tunes can discuss amongst ourselves without having to read two pages of shit to find what little information is actually relevant the the thread title.
Please

[Sukks2bu]

Why don't you guys go discuss this on an epl thread, so that those of us with unitronics tunes can discuss amongst ourselves without having to read two pages of shit to find what little information is actually relevant the the thread title.
Please

Never mind, can someone just re title this thread why I love epl.
I'm going to start a new thread now fir unitronics.

[Thurston]

Every single thread you are into turns to shit.. Doesn't matter the subject.. You're a troll.. And you seem quite miserable in general.. You should knock it off

Hey I respect Doug and like his postings and while I strongly disagree with some of his subjective judgments in this thread I think you're being a bit unfair towards him. just saying . . . carryon

[Acejam]

Currently we have 3 open platforms for development. You continue to bring up the fact that Im a "one-man tuning operation" and try to point out that I couldn't possibly spend enough time in testing , which isnt true, but lets go with it for a second.....

Current open development platforms are all 3.0t models, are 4.0t models and certain MQB 2.0t models. You are looking at "One Man" to 3 platforms for testing and tuning (3 to 1). Compare that ratio to other tuners in this industry and you will see that we (I say we because Im not a "one-man tuning operation") have ample time for development, testing and tuning. Other tuners in the 3.0t market support MANY more platforms with 1 or 2 staffed tuners. Yes we sell legacy products and may do a custome tune or two here or there, but it has always be our policy to have 3-4 open development platform at any given time.

In addition to limiting markets, we also for the first 10 years in business a full operation repair/installation/tuning facility. ~18 Months or so ago we shut down service to allow for MORE time for TUNING only. This had allow 100% of our efforts to be focused on tuning ONLY. Not service, manufacturing or parts sales....TUNING.

You mentioned earlier other tuners take "Teams" to the track to "break" cars to find limits and test products. Who? When? To my knowledge EPL is the only tuner in this market thats ever rented (or in some cases co-rented) an entire track (several times actually in the last 12 years in business) for product testing.

You also mentioned we should be using our our own cars for development and not "beta'ing" on customers... Well, we have. We owned a B8 for 4+ years and took 18 months to develop our stage 1 program that at the time of release was market competitive with other stage 2. I put 77k on that car in 44 moths of ownership. Currently we use one of our ex employees cars for testing when necessary (much the same as 2 other tuners you mentioned in this thread).

I tried to not comment in this thread because it was started to discuss another tuner who I respect and am friendly with. Please, if you dont know something about a company in this industry, done assume, ask.

Tony, this is excellent information. Thank you for clearing some of this up. Has this info ever been shared/posted anywhere before?

It was not clear to me that EPL considers things outside of the 3.0 T, 4.0T, and select 2.0T to be "closed" or "not in active development". With this newfound info (to me, at least) your tuner ratio makes more sense. I came across mentions of EPL tuning on a Porsche forum as well and was under the impression that active development was occurring on several Audi platforms, Porsche platforms, and potentially others.

It is not my intention to tell you how to run a business, but might I suggest including some of this information on your website, or in any current/future group buy/sales threads? I think others would find it very useful.

You asked a question or two and I figured I would answer them to the best of my ability:
1. I'm pretty sure GIAC has done track rentals before in CA. I don't know if they had the entire track to just themselves, but Austin has certainly posted about it before.
2. REVO has a location on-track at the Bruntingthorpe Proving Ground in the UK.
3. APR has done a few track days. Here's a somewhat recent one from their Instagram at Barber Motorsports Park: https://www.instagram.com/p/BKOAZzDDRXU/?taken-by=aprllc

[scmtkings4]

Sorry to interrupt, but let's talk unitronics for a second.
Garro, I asked John specifically do we need to reflash the ecu after a tcu flash and he said it wasn't necessary.
I too would like to know about this. Not only for Unitronic but any tuner that offers a TCU tune.

Are you supposed to flash ECU after the TCU tune? I flashed my ecu before the tcu....am I supposed to flash ecu again after?

Sent from my Passport using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Acejam]

Not only for Unitronic but any tuner that offers a TCU tune.

I know for the APR TCU tune, my dealer stated that the order does not matter. The dealer flashing software from APR resets any CEL's or hidden codes after each flash, regardless if it's ECU or TCU.

[saxon]

FYI, unitronic can customize their tcu tune to your liking (for the most part)

I will be quiet about my opinion of epl as it seems when they dropped their service and parts sales they have gotten much better at communication and fixing tune issues

[ENG]

Why I bought EPL Tune over others,

*Reasonable costs ( to me, a HUGE component as I see most tunes as 98% the same - this may be a horrible assumption but as I have never seen details of what parameters are actually changed for the 3.0t and can only go off what I have seen on other platforms)
*Answered all questions fast and prompt
*Flash from home (welcome to the 21st century) and a huge headache for tuners to support with everyone under the sun using a different laptop/OS etc so my hat is off for EPL for support this
*Resale option (unlikely to use within the 2 year period as I buy and hold my vehicles but nice that its offered)
*Ongoing support for folks pushing the envelope, the platform develops because a select few people and tuners are willing to test the limits, tweak, update etc and then share that with the 99% of us who are happy to just pay some cash and enjoy the ride. EPL is not the only one doing this, so hats off to all

*Tuning, while a science is not exactly "rocket science", I can not do it and have nothing but respect for those who can nor do I mean to say anyone can but I mean to say that the big players are all fully capable of producing functional tunes. The knowledge/limitation is more in the encryption/writing and flash software then in the "tweaking engine parameters" to make more power...... lets be honest the same "levers" are tweaked in every tune maybe to slightly different degrees

In all fairness my flashing process for Stage I, TCU and then Stage II was flawless and car has had no issues , cells, or hick ups. Its only 1 data point but for those bashing one tuner over the other I love that they provide no details other then general/generic statements and on products they have not even used. I think those looking for a tune have a lot of great options and they should select whom they feel is the best value and will give them the best support in the future. There is no one "best tune" or "tuner".....thats a fools argument

[Sukks2bu]

I too would like to know about this. Not only for Unitronic but any tuner that offers a TCU tune.

Are you supposed to flash ECU after the TCU tune? I flashed my ecu before the tcu....am I supposed to flash ecu again after?

Sent from my Passport using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

Only reason for a re flash would be to load the appropriate ecu file that goes with a dsg tune.
But I'm no expert.

[Garro]

Sorry to interrupt, but let's talk unitronics for a second.
Garro, I asked John specifically do we need to reflash the ecu after a tcu flash and he said it wasn't necessary.
I am talking about the initial flash. Not the ones after it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[John@Unitronic]

Sorry to interrupt, but let's talk unitronics for a second.
Garro, I asked John specifically do we need to reflash the ecu after a tcu flash and he said it wasn't necessary.

It is necessary to reflash the ECU with the corresponding file labeled "FOR USE WITH UNITRONIC TCU SOFTWARE" after the TCU has been flashed.

[John@Unitronic]

Clearing all DTCs through vagcom

I always recommend clearing DTCs after E/TCU programming.

[boro92]

FWIW I had the same problem with Unitronic - the throttle mapping was very aggressive. So much to the point that the throttle pedal was no longer linear.
I would recommend calling them up and see if they can alter it so that you keep the stock throttle map. For me, it was so bad that the car was no longer able to be balanced in all situations via the throttle. So for an on-track situation, you are actually losing out on the fine control of weight transfer...which is ultimately detrimental to lap time.
For me, the first 1/3rd of pedal travel was linear power delivery. Anything beyond that was like wide open throttle. Didn't work out of the box.
I will say though that Unitronic felt crazy fast out of the box. Perhaps due to the lack of linearity, I do not know. But it felt great :)

[def]

It is necessary to reflash the ECU with the corresponding file labeled "FOR USE WITH UNITRONIC TCU SOFTWARE" after the TCU has been flashed.

John that is a good point to bring up. I flashed my car this morning. I noticed I had 2 Stage 1+ ECU options. One had that same tag FOR USE WITH UNITRONIC TCU SOFTWARE" and the other did not. I also noticed I only had 1 Stage 1 ECU option and it did not have that tag line... Is there a TCU only version of the Stage 1? I would really rather run 91 octane than 94.


If I get a chance to do some hard pulls in Dynamic/Sport I'll report back if I get any hang ups. Likely won't until the weekend.

[John@Unitronic]

John that is a good point to bring up. I flashed my car this morning. I noticed I had 2 Stage 1+ ECU options. One had that same tag FOR USE WITH UNITRONIC TCU SOFTWARE" and the other did not. I also noticed I only had 1 Stage 1 ECU option and it did not have that tag line... Is there a TCU only version of the Stage 1? I would really rather run 91 octane than 94.

If I get a chance to do some hard pulls in Dynamic/Sport I'll report back if I get any hang ups. Likely won't until the weekend.

Stage 1 TCU is to be paired alongside Stage 1 ECU only; anything beyond this ECU level requires Stage 2 TCU. Whereas Stage 2 TCU is to be paired with Stage 1+ and Stage 2+ ECU. Please see the screenshot below, which is taken from our website directly for reference:

https://www.getunitronic.com/tech/forums/S4-TCU-1.PNG

If you're using Stage 1 TCU, this indicates you should be using Stage 1 ECU and does not require a specific version for use with Unitroinic TCU Software. Hopefully this helps.

[def]

Stage 1 TCU is to be paired alongside Stage 1 ECU only; anything beyond this ECU level requires Stage 2 TCU. Whereas Stage 2 TCU is to be paired with Stage 1+ and Stage 2+ ECU. Please see the screenshot below, which is taken from our website directly for reference:

https://www.getunitronic.com/tech/forums/S4-TCU-1.PNG

If you're using Stage 1 TCU, this indicates you should be using Stage 1 ECU and does not require a specific version for use with Unitroinic TCU Software. Hopefully this helps.

You have 2 Stage 1+ ECU options in the menu. One says with use along side TCU and the other does not. Stage 1 doesn't have both options... So I was wondering if I was missing an ECU option for regular stage 1? Figured doesn't hurt to ask since it sounds like you guys have some tweaked tunes like a Stage 2 that is less aggressive and can run 91. A stage 2 for guys with cooling. A stage not sure which that has less aggressive throttle mapping in Dynamic mode. (All from what I have gathered out of forum posts over time)

On a side note I drove the car a bit hard when I had chances on the way home... I got 2-3 gear shift hang ups from the stop lights under hard acceleration. Just feels like a manual car shift by a person not a fast computer. I did a pull from 2 on the off ramp and it shifted smooth. Got a video of that one. I will try get some time again on Friday to play a bit more and get some Videos.

[John@Unitronic]

You have 2 Stage 1+ ECU options in the menu. One says with use along side TCU and the other does not. Stage 1 doesn't have both options... So I was wondering if I was missing an ECU option for regular stage 1? Figured doesn't hurt to ask since it sounds like you guys have some tweaked tunes like a Stage 2 that is less aggressive and can run 91. A stage 2 for guys with cooling. A stage not sure which that has less aggressive throttle mapping in Dynamic mode. (All from what I have gathered out of forum posts over time)

On a side note I drove the car a bit hard when I had chances on the way home... I got 2-3 gear shift hang ups from the stop lights under hard acceleration. Just feels like a manual car shift by a person not a fast computer. I did a pull from 2 on the off ramp and it shifted smooth. Got a video of that one. I will try get some time again on Friday to play a bit more and get some Videos.

No, you're not missing any files for the Stage 1 level. Feel free to send me any videos by email directly at john [at] unitronic [dot] ca with your full name and VIN.

[Cysco abt S4]

So I decided to give Unitronic a shot. I have mixed feelings about my choice. I was really attracted by the Uniconnect as the power to flash on my own seemed very attractive. I saw a video on YouTube of a guy flashing his car and it looked pretty well done. I have to say it really is slick and works really well. They did a great job on the software.

That said, while I researched all the tuners dyno charts, and 1/4 miles, and while it helped to influence my purchase those details aren't entirely what drove me. I don't want my car to feel like a race car, just to feel like how it should have come from the factory. I felt like I wanted the little extra bump a Stage 1 tune gives paired with a TCU tune to raise my shift points to 7000rpm and manual mode downshifts disabled. Other than tuning from home I felt like no matter which tuner I went with I could probably achieve this. Maybe rather than assuming I should have posed the question directly. [o_o]

My car is a B8.5 with DSG.

I went Stage 1 to start. Right away you could notice the difference. Where the car started to feel like it ran out of steam around 4k rpm pre stage 1 this thing just keeps pulling now. It will hang pretty decent with my friends RS5 now where it was a total annihilation before. My only gripe would be that in Auto/Drive the throttle felt a little sharper than stock and I wished it would have retained that stock smoothness a bit. Felt almost like Sport mode but in Drive.

Next item on the list was to get the shift points raised to 7000rpm so I could get the most out of the tune. I read through their site and bought the stage 1 TCU (but have never flashed it) which is supposed to match their Stage 1 ECU better. Wasn't until after the purchase I noticed the stupid chart telling me it didn't raise shift points. Even after asking the guys at Unitronic I still don't understand what the purpose of the Stage 1 TCU tune is. It has the same details as Stage 2 TCU but retains the stock shift points? Neither disables auto downshifts in manual mode. Is that worth $700?

Well my answer to that question was to part with another $150 and get the Stage 2 TCU. Flashed. Auto/Drive mode is amazing now. It smoothed that extra sharpness I got with the Stage 1 and made it feel like stock again. Now it just keeps pulling past 4k rpm. Feels great! Dynamic/Sport on the other hand is less ideal. I find it gets hung up during upshifts sometimes. Most noticeably around 3-4 shift. According to John this could be caused by flashing Stage 2 TCU when it clearly states it pairs with Stage 1+ and Stage 2 ECU vs my Stage 1. Something I'll have to try I guess. I don't want to run Stage 1+ on an ongoing basis because I prefer to run 91. Unfortunately I'm starting to deviate from my flash and enjoy experience in my old car with APR. Not to say APR is any better on this platform but I'm not as happy as I thought I'd be. Why cant I have a 91 octane car with a 7k rpm shift point and manual downshifts disabled? The sunny side to Unitronic is truly the flash from home. I can at least avoid annoying trips to the tuner while I play with the flashes. I'd probably be angry otherwise.

So anyway, if you are like me and want a stock feeling car, this combo is not working out so far for me. I'll play with it a bit and see if it doesn't get any better. Anyone with APR or GIAC stage 1 cars with TCU in the Toronto area? I'd love to see how they compare.
I am unitronic now but i had an abt sportsline tune that was so smooth but only had 16# of boost this new tune spikes at 23# but steady at 18# and i love it

Sent from my LGLS450 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Cysco abt S4]

So I decided to give Unitronic a shot. I have mixed feelings about my choice. I was really attracted by the Uniconnect as the power to flash on my own seemed very attractive. I saw a video on YouTube of a guy flashing his car and it looked pretty well done. I have to say it really is slick and works really well. They did a great job on the software.

That said, while I researched all the tuners dyno charts, and 1/4 miles, and while it helped to influence my purchase those details aren't entirely what drove me. I don't want my car to feel like a race car, just to feel like how it should have come from the factory. I felt like I wanted the little extra bump a Stage 1 tune gives paired with a TCU tune to raise my shift points to 7000rpm and manual mode downshifts disabled. Other than tuning from home I felt like no matter which tuner I went with I could probably achieve this. Maybe rather than assuming I should have posed the question directly. [o_o]

My car is a B8.5 with DSG.

I went Stage 1 to start. Right away you could notice the difference. Where the car started to feel like it ran out of steam around 4k rpm pre stage 1 this thing just keeps pulling now. It will hang pretty decent with my friends RS5 now where it was a total annihilation before. My only gripe would be that in Auto/Drive the throttle felt a little sharper than stock and I wished it would have retained that stock smoothness a bit. Felt almost like Sport mode but in Drive.

Next item on the list was to get the shift points raised to 7000rpm so I could get the most out of the tune. I read through their site and bought the stage 1 TCU (but have never flashed it) which is supposed to match their Stage 1 ECU better. Wasn't until after the purchase I noticed the stupid chart telling me it didn't raise shift points. Even after asking the guys at Unitronic I still don't understand what the purpose of the Stage 1 TCU tune is. It has the same details as Stage 2 TCU but retains the stock shift points? Neither disables auto downshifts in manual mode. Is that worth $700?

Well my answer to that question was to part with another $150 and get the Stage 2 TCU. Flashed. Auto/Drive mode is amazing now. It smoothed that extra sharpness I got with the Stage 1 and made it feel like stock again. Now it just keeps pulling past 4k rpm. Feels great! Dynamic/Sport on the other hand is less ideal. I find it gets hung up during upshifts sometimes. Most noticeably around 3-4 shift. According to John this could be caused by flashing Stage 2 TCU when it clearly states it pairs with Stage 1+ and Stage 2 ECU vs my Stage 1. Something I'll have to try I guess. I don't want to run Stage 1+ on an ongoing basis because I prefer to run 91. Unfortunately I'm starting to deviate from my flash and enjoy experience in my old car with APR. Not to say APR is any better on this platform but I'm not as happy as I thought I'd be. Why cant I have a 91 octane car with a 7k rpm shift point and manual downshifts disabled? The sunny side to Unitronic is truly the flash from home. I can at least avoid annoying trips to the tuner while I play with the flashes. I'd probably be angry otherwise.

So anyway, if you are like me and want a stock feeling car, this combo is not working out so far for me. I'll play with it a bit and see if it doesn't get any better. Anyone with APR or GIAC stage 1 cars with TCU in the Toronto area? I'd love to see how they compare.
Try abt sportsline verry smooth like stock

Sent from my LGLS450 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[def]

So flashed back to stock TCU and still running the Stage 1+ ECU. The sharpness in throttle Auto/Drive is still gone. So maybe it wasn't the TCU tune itself that removed it. Is it something to do with TCU adaptation or something that got triggered? If it's not that then maybe the Stage 1+ ECU meant for the TCU has a different mapping than the Stage 1. Asked John about it via email but haven't heard back yet... Christmas?

Any way the car is way better with the stock tune. Especially now that I don't have that sharp throttle in Auto/Drive. The Stage 2 TCU tune just doesn't work well on my 2013. From slow shifts at red line, to slipping issues in 2nd gear to hanging shifts completely at red line. I'll take the slower stock shifting and 6400rpm redline any day. Still hoping for a resolution that ends with me on a Unitronic TCU tune but for now it's stock mode until these issues can get worked out.

[TexasDfwS4]

I have the TCU tune in my 2013 and love it. I think John's response was informative in that stage 1 no TCU tune required but stage 1+ TCU is required. Stage 2 is a mistery but stage 2+ TCU tune is required. I think the TCU has done wonders for my dd.