so the dealer broke my cutch/TOB...

[nbooks]

car is my 2011 with 67k miles. I am the third owner having purchased it back in November with right around 57k on it, the CPO warranty was transferred into my name and is active until 1/1/17.

Shortly after i bought the car it became difficult to get it into reverse with the engine running. unfortunately it slowly spread to other gears in the form of lockout and needing more force than expected to get the car into gear at times. The thing is, it has always been intermittent. Sometimes it acts like a temperature dependent problem getting worse as the car gets hot especially as its been in the 80's and 90's ambient lately. A few weeks ago i changed the transmission (motul motylgear) fluid just to eliminate that as an issue. There was little to no change.

This past Monday I DROVE (key point here) the car to the dealer and explained the issue. They said no problem, they would investigate. Next day I get an update from the service manager that they hadn't found anything yet but were speaking directly with Audi to go through diagnostic steps, I reminded of the few TSB's that exist for various parts of the clutch system and he said thats what Audi was having them go through at that time.

Here's where it gets...fun. Wednesday I get a call back from the service manager, this time informing me that during diagnostics they removed the slave cylinder to do something with the TOB (removal?) and the TOB popped out as well as something happening to the fingers on the pressure plate rendering the car undriveable and oh by the way it needs a new clutch and it will cost me a nice cool $4500 + tax. Unfortunately im a little foggy on what exactly he said happened to the pressure plate because i was so mad at that point. The service manager than began talking about trying to help me on parts cost and doing 15% off something blah blah...


I took yesterday to cool off, tried to call the service manager today and couldn't get a hold of him and got no call back. So here's my big issue, I drove my damn car into the dealership and now I am not able to drive it out in an effort to get the job done at a shop of my choice. On top of that, the car has been driven like this for 10-12k miles and it didn't fail, why all of a sudden was it so worn that the looked at it and it failed? On top of that the immediate offer of working on price with me sounds a little fishy...

I build and race cars as a hobby, and have been for the last 15 years. I am not car naive, and I have NEVER seen a clutch system fail like this. If anyone has some input/advice with this it would be greatly appreciated! This is the first time I have owned a car with a warranty or even dealt with dealer service. Obviously the cost here is a major friggin issue considering I'm not the one that broke the damn car.

[rollerton]

They broke it. You have a right to have it returned to you the way you left it, with no work done and no alterations. If the procedure of their 'diagnosis' rendered your car undrivable and in need of repair then (obviously) they are responsible.
Tell them you do not want them to perform the repair, but you will come to pick it up when it is returned o the condition in which you left it. If they decline or offer anything other than a yes tell them your lawyer will be in touch.
Hate to say it, but if they don't take responsibility then it's going to be a fight, but you will win. Might be worth a friendly and cool headed call to AOA up front to go over the situation and ask what their opinion is.
But this stuff happens all the time.

[nbooks]

Gonna sound like a silly question, but when calling AOA (which was my plan), what's the best number? I know there's a few contacts in my warranty booklet. Is it better to try and get say a regional managers number?

[jimrobbington]

It doesn't surprise me one bit. I go in for a squeaky pedal, and come out several weeks later and $5k in the hole with a brand new clutch and still a squeaky pedal. Audi fucked us all with the clutch system on this car, and the dealer's don't give a shit and will take you for every penny you are worth. You could show up at the dealer for a fucking clogged windshield washer nozzle and they'll tell you your clutch needs replaced. Never been so sour in my life.

[Hofahome]

That sucks dude. Fight it. Tell them that you are willing to pay for the clutch but because they broke the pressure plate they will need to replace it/and provide the labor to do so. Or do what most of us do and upgrade the system because the stock clutch blows. Use the CPO for other stuff.

[rtl5009]

Removing the slave has nothing to do with the throw out bearing. If they told you that they are full of shit. To service the TOB the transmission needs removed, and then the clutch module needs removed from the transmission.

[TappaNuKegga]

It doesn't surprise me one bit. I go in for a squeaky pedal, and come out several weeks later and $5k in the hole with a brand new clutch and still a squeaky pedal. Audi fucked us all with the clutch system on this car, and the dealer's don't give a shit and will take you for every penny you are worth. You could show up at the dealer for a fucking clogged windshield washer nozzle and they'll tell you your clutch needs replaced. Never been so sour in my life.

I'm currently dealing with a squeaky clutch pedal through an Audi dealership in MD. Today at 2pm will mark the 3rd appointment with the same dealer trying to address the issue. They continue to attempt to lubricate the clutch pedal assembly, then return the car claiming it's fixed and the tech can no longer replicate the issue. Each time, within 2 miles of me picking up my car up I can hear and feel(slightly roughness) the squeak. The stealership continues to claim the techs could no longer replicate the issue, despite me having successfully pointed out the issue in-person, with 3 different techs, including the shop manager.

I know dealerships usually give you some resistance on big warranty items but this is turning into nothing more than habitual dishonesty. Any pointers on what to say from here if they continue to deny existence of the obvious issue?

EDIT: Sorry to thread jack!

[nbooks]

So it sounds like there's actually no way to view the tob/pressure plate without removing the trans? On Most of the cars I've owned over the years there was an inspection cover on the case. My guess is when removing the slave they somehow disconnected the fork from the tob (which I've managed to do on my race car).

My plan all along was to use an independent shop for the job at my convenience, probably in the fall. I only took it to the dealer to have diagnostics done on basically the slave/master and anything else just to rule them out for the small chance a tsb or other failure may fall under warranty.

I called XLR8 and they estimated $4k for a south bend setup reusing stock flywheel, obviously the dealer refuses to do it without a new flywheel for $1300 of the final price...too bad I can't get it anywhere now.

[richardm0025]

Borrow a friends car with a hitch. Go to uhaul to rent a trailer and then drop it off at place of your choosing?


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[windowguy]

Our cars do have an inspection plate on the bottom side of the trans. However I don't think you can see too much.

Labor to do the clutch should be 8 to 10 hours. Clutch kit with lightweight flywheel is about $2k. Not sure why it should cost $4k to do a clutch. You can always have it towed to another shop.

I have a "sweating" main seal according to Audi that they wont replace so I looked into the clutch options.

Rob.

[14S4GWM]

I'm currently dealing with a squeaky clutch pedal through an Audi dealership in MD. Today at 2pm will mark the 3rd appointment with the same dealer trying to address the issue. They continue to attempt to lubricate the clutch pedal assembly, then return to car to be saying the tech could no longer replicate the issue.

Hunt Valley or Owings Mills?

[TappaNuKegga]

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Hunt Valley or Owings Mills?

Neither actually. I specifically chose this dealer because of very positive service reviews on google and on our forums.

Hopefully they stop trying to ignore my issue soon so I don't have to reveal who they are and fully voice my negative experience.

[nbooks]

I have a truck and trailer actually, but my winch is only 3500 pounds so I'm not positive it can pull the s4 on. But regardless the dealer needs to make some attempt to rectify this. If I get a hold of him today I'm likely going to tell him I'll pay parts and they will be paying labor or hear from a lawyer.

XLR8's quote was $3900 out the door (based off an invoice he had in the system. Book time is 11 hours, southbend clutch kit without flywheel is 800, and they recommended driveshaft seals I believe? Since they commonly find them leaking, but that was only about a $200 add on. I don't get the quotes either, since I assumed labor rates were probably around 120/hr...which leaves a lot of the bill unaccounted for.

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Neither actually. I specifically chose this dealer because of very positive service reviews on google and on our forums.

Hopefully they stop trying to ignore my issue soon so I don't have to reveal who they are and fully voice my negative experience.

I also chose this dealer on the same criteria...in his defense the service manager has been nothing but nice.

[jimrobbington]

I paid $2500 in parts to upgrade to JHM STAGE 3 and lightweight flywheel. I would steer clear of Southend from what I've heard.

[rtl5009]

Our cars do have an inspection plate on the bottom side of the trans. However I don't think you can see too much.

Labor to do the clutch should be 8 to 10 hours. Clutch kit with lightweight flywheel is about $2k. Not sure why it should cost $4k to do a clutch. You can always have it towed to another shop.

I have a "sweating" main seal according to Audi that they wont replace so I looked into the clutch options.

Rob.

The inspection plate is to remove the bolts from the clutch pack affixing it to the starter plate.

[nbooks]

2 shops told me they have been installing a lot of southbends and it was actually there recommended clutch.

[elscotto80]

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Neither actually. I specifically chose this dealer because of very positive service reviews on google and on our forums.

Hopefully they stop trying to ignore my issue soon so I don't have to reveal who they are and fully voice my negative experience.

OP - I would push them real hard to have them get you back to how it was brought in. Thats some serious BS they are pulling on you.

I assume you may be referring to Audi Silver Spring. I had my A4 in there for the same issue (grainy clutch and squeaking). They diagnosed it as the TOB, pin and fork failure which was covered under CPO by a TSB. They replaced the failed parts and my clutch feels fine. The TSB applies to the A4, S4 and A5 IIRC.

[bokiboki]

Did you talk to Tyrolsport in Queens/NY? It's a great shop with a bunch of great guys working there - ask for owner Mike or Andre and get the quote from them too. They did my clutch (I installed Sachs performance clutch disk/pp that's supposed to have 15% more clamping force for like $550 or so https://www.sachsperformance.com/Performance-Clutch-Kit-XTend-3000950018-S and a new OEM flywheel that I got from ecstuning for $450 when it was on some kind of wonder sale) and I couldn't be more happy - it holds the Stage 2 great, the peddal is just a tad firmer, no chatter or NVH what so ever. I've been going there for more than 5 years now and highly recommend them.

[nbooks]

I was actually after the Sachs plate as I ran one on a previous car and loved it, but couldn't even find the part number in true site anymore. Where did you get it from?

Unfortunately the car is at a dealer in Massachusetts who has no not returned 3 phone calls over 2 days.

[XLR8 Craig]

I have a truck and trailer actually, but my winch is only 3500 pounds so I'm not positive it can pull the s4 on. But regardless the dealer needs to make some attempt to rectify this. If I get a hold of him today I'm likely going to tell him I'll pay parts and they will be paying labor or hear from a lawyer.

XLR8's quote was $3900 out the door (based off an invoice he had in the system. Book time is 11 hours, southbend clutch kit without flywheel is 800, and they recommended driveshaft seals I believe? Since they commonly find them leaking, but that was only about a $200 add on. I don't get the quotes either, since I assumed labor rates were probably around 120/hr...which leaves a lot of the bill unaccounted for.

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I also chose this dealer on the same criteria...in his defense the service manager has been nothing but nice.


We have crossed paths on Audizine! I am Sorry to hear about your troubles with the dealer. If you need anything from me, please let me know. If you are in desperate need, let me know what you need and we can try and make it happen for you.

Thanks,

Greg

[nbooks]

Greg - appreciate it, I may be in touch depending on what happens here...


Finally got ahold of the service manager and when I pressed him he started acting like a total dick. Told me because I asked them to diagnose it it's basically my fault because they just did as I asked, which I feel is total bullshit since he still has no logical explanation why a diagnostic procedure broke everything. He got extra pissed when I said I was calling Audi. Now I have till the end of the day to tell him if I'm towing it out on Tuesday and having them fix it. They are still refusing to skip the flywheel

[Thurston]

Did you talk to Tyrolsport in Queens/NY? It's a great shop with a bunch of great guys working there - ask for owner Mike or Andre and get the quote from them too. They did my clutch (I installed Sachs performance clutch disk/pp that's supposed to have 15% more clamping force for like $550 or so https://www.sachsperformance.com/Performance-Clutch-Kit-XTend-3000950018-S and a new OEM flywheel that I got from ecstuning for $450 when it was on some kind of wonder sale) and I couldn't be more happy - it holds the Stage 2 great, the peddal is just a tad firmer, no chatter or NVH what so ever. I've been going there for more than 5 years now and highly recommend them.

Bro u installed this clutch? People have been wanting info on it or a review for awhile now.. Good to hear a super positive review given

[XLR8 Craig]

Greg - appreciate it, I may be in touch depending on what happens here...


Finally got ahold of the service manager and when I pressed him he started acting like a total dick. Told me because I asked them to diagnose it it's basically my fault because they just did as I asked, which I feel is total bullshit since he still has no logical explanation why a diagnostic procedure broke everything. He got extra pissed when I said I was calling Audi. Now I have till the end of the day to tell him if I'm towing it out on Tuesday and having them fix it. They are still refusing to skip the flywheel


That is horrendous customer service. It pains me to see people treated like that at the dealership, or any shop for that matter. Let me know how it goes. Always here for support and advice.

[TexasDfwS4]

If they gave you a rental car keep it call AOA and do not return the rental until the work is completed. They tried that push me out with my wife's car with a tranny problem and AOA took care of it for me. Wife's Q5 3.2 had a mecatronic unit go bad.

[DGVR6]

Did you talk to Tyrolsport in Queens/NY? It's a great shop with a bunch of great guys working there - ask for owner Mike or Andre and get the quote from them too. They did my clutch (I installed Sachs performance clutch disk/pp that's supposed to have 15% more clamping force for like $550 or so https://www.sachsperformance.com/Performance-Clutch-Kit-XTend-3000950018-S and a new OEM flywheel that I got from ecstuning for $450 when it was on some kind of wonder sale) and I couldn't be more happy - it holds the Stage 2 great, the peddal is just a tad firmer, no chatter or NVH what so ever. I've been going there for more than 5 years now and highly recommend them.

On the s4? Took them a month to give me a quote and they quoted me 2300$ I laughed . Rather go to the dealership.

[Vogz]

I paid $2500 in parts to upgrade to JHM STAGE 3 and lightweight flywheel. I would steer clear of Southend from what I've heard.

Southbend clutches are fantastic. I've run multiple in 2 different vehicles. I've never read anything negative about them. They are pricey though.

[damnbiker]

regarding your winch: Keep in mind that even though the S4 weighs close to 4000lbs, you don't need to pull all of that weight to get it onto a trailer. Pulling the car up ramps is much easier than lifting all 4000lbs vertical. One person can push the car on flat.

[nbooks]

If they gave you a rental car keep it call AOA and do not return the rental until the work is completed. They tried that push me out with my wife's car with a tranny problem and AOA took care of it for me. Wife's Q5 3.2 had a mecatronic unit go bad.

Only pushing me to make a decision to have them do it or if I don't then return it, if they do the work I keep it

[richardm0025]

I have a truck and trailer actually, but my winch is only 3500 pounds so I'm not positive it can pull the s4 on. But regardless the dealer needs to make some attempt to rectify this. If I get a hold of him today I'm likely going to tell him I'll pay parts and they will be paying labor or hear from a lawyer.

XLR8's quote was $3900 out the door (based off an invoice he had in the system. Book time is 11 hours, southbend clutch kit without flywheel is 800, and they recommended driveshaft seals I believe? Since they commonly find them leaking, but that was only about a $200 add on. I don't get the quotes either, since I assumed labor rates were probably around 120/hr...which leaves a lot of the bill unaccounted for.

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I also chose this dealer on the same criteria...in his defense the service manager has been nothing but nice.

Understood, just saying in a worse case scenario. I used a come a long lol, it pulled it up with no problem. Definitely put pressure on the dealer since THEY broke it.


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[Moto One]

What I'm wondering is if your car is CPO what the problem, I would think its covered under the warranty.

Mark

[Thurston]

If they gave you a rental car keep it call AOA and do not return the rental until the work is completed. They tried that push me out with my wife's car with a tranny problem and AOA took care of it for me. Wife's Q5 3.2 had a mecatronic unit go bad.

That's actually really slick idea presuming they give you a rental rather than a loaner in which case they're paying enterprise or whomever. They rented a car for me when they were out of loaners which I thought was nice.

[nbooks]

What I'm wondering is if your car is CPO what the problem, I would think its covered under the warranty.

Mark

Clutch is a wear item so it's not covered. Even though there's probably no less than 5 tsb's for parts of the clutch system as well as it being a known shitty setup.

Most frustrating part is my coworker who has purchased 2 s4's from this dealer and is stage 2 with many mods was told by this EXACT service manager who told him he woulda have gotten a free clutch if he wasn't tuned. I'm 100% stock still

[sonic32]

So it sounds like there's actually no way to view the tob/pressure plate without removing the trans? On Most of the cars I've owned over the years there was an inspection cover on the case. My guess is when removing the slave they somehow disconnected the fork from the tob (which I've managed to do on my race car).

My plan all along was to use an independent shop for the job at my convenience, probably in the fall. I only took it to the dealer to have diagnostics done on basically the slave/master and anything else just to rule them out for the small chance a tsb or other failure may fall under warranty.

I called XLR8 and they estimated $4k for a south bend setup reusing stock flywheel, obviously the dealer refuses to do it without a new flywheel for $1300 of the final price...too bad I can't get it anywhere now.

Shoot me a pm, I just had clutch, flywheel, pp, ans absolutely everything in the transmission casing replaced along with brake fluid and tranny fluid and I see that your local in NY. I'm in queens.

Also squeaky pedal I had it addressed a while ago, got a new pedal after they attempted to lube it 2 times it was all good till about a month ago and now it's back and when it gets hot it's worse than ever


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[audistealth]

2 shops told me they have been installing a lot of southbends and it was actually there recommended clutch.
NGP and Induktion? Just curious.

Also, with all these MD people in this thread, why aren't you all in the regional forum here?

[14S4GWM]

NGP and Induktion? Just curious.

Also, with all these MD people in this thread, why aren't you all in the regional forum here?

Theres only 2 MD people in this thread including myself.

[audistealth]

Theres only 2 MD people in this thread including myself.
Ah crap, I misread #13.

[bhvrdr]

I like going with Sachs on audi cars. Rock auto has the Sachs K7061901 for $500 and i'd try and see if the pp can be reused.

Mike

[IbisB8.5S4]

if they were messing with the slave cylinder and TOB came off that's on them... they might as well say hey we slammed your door really hard and the glass broke but we're going to charge to to fix it. WTF? Keep pressing them.. keep pissing this guy off.. ask to talk to his manager etc. this is bullshit

[TappaNuKegga]

OP - I would push them real hard to have them get you back to how it was brought in. Thats some serious BS they are pulling on you.

I assume you may be referring to Audi Silver Spring. I had my A4 in there for the same issue (grainy clutch and squeaking). They diagnosed it as the TOB, pin and fork failure which was covered under CPO by a TSB. They replaced the failed parts and my clutch feels fine. The TSB applies to the A4, S4 and A5 IIRC.

Here's how my 2pm appointment went at our MD dealership. Service dept said they can't diagnose anything further without opening up the transmission and taking a look. The only way they're willing to do that is if I pay the $2700 up front in labor to open trans and eventually reinstall trans. If the offending busted part does end up being the TOB or other clutch part covered under warranty, I will not have to pay. Otherwise I am responsible for the $2700+any non-warranty clutch parts needed to complete the repair.

Do you happen to have the TSB number for the TOB? Do you know if it covers 2013 S4s? I would have hoped the dealership would have checked for possible TSBs for my car...

What do you guys think? Worth the gamble? Thanks

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[rtl5009]

What parts of the clutch are not covered? Just the disc? That's the only "wearable" item. Yea the flywheel and pressure plate sustain wear but they are not wearable.

[Vogz]

What parts of the clutch are not covered? Just the disc? That's the only "wearable" item. Yea the flywheel and pressure plate sustain wear but they are not wearable.

WAT?

That's like saying a brake disc isn't a "wearable" (whatever that means) item, lol The flywheel and the pressure plate are wear items just like the clutch disc. The clutch disc friction material will wear more quickly than the surface of the flywheel or pressure plate, but that doesn't make it the only wear item in the clutch system. The springs in the pressure plate will also wear out.

[jmaddr]

Do you happen to have the TSB number for the TOB? Do you know if it covers 2013 S4s? I would have hoped the dealership would have checked for possible TSBs for my car...


Here is where you can find most of the TSBs.
http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/

[TappaNuKegga]

Here is where you can find most of the TSBs.
http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/
Awesome thanks.
Doesn't seem to be a TSB for my 2013 unfortunately :(

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[bokiboki]

I was actually after the Sachs plate as I ran one on a previous car and loved it, but couldn't even find the part number in true site anymore. Where did you get it from?

Unfortunately the car is at a dealer in Massachusetts who has no not returned 3 phone calls over 2 days.

^Sorry for the late reply, I got it from RockAuto like one of the posters said already but I think it might be out of stock now - you have to double check with them. The clutch feels awesome, no issues whatsoever - highly recommend (been in my car for almost 20k miles now).

[jsh139]

This is the Sachs clutch kit from Rock Auto.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/audi,2010,s4,3.0l+v6+supercharged,3003666,transmis sion-manual,clutch+kit,1993

It's been out of stock for a while. They must have gotten like one or two in the other day because it now says it is in stock @ $500.79. Rock Auto also sells the OE flywheel @ $590.89.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/audi,2010,s4,3.0l+v6+supercharged,3003666,transmis sion-manual,flywheel,5348

This clutch below looks to be a modified version of the above Sachs. Looks like they modified the friction disc to get it to hold a little more torque. This is the clutch I will be using when mine goes. And to hear a positive review of it in this thread only makes me more confident in that decision.

https://www.sachsperformance.com/en/clutch-kit/zf-sachs/performance-clutch-3000950918-s

Good luck, OP. Hope AoA comes through for you.