HPFP Repair

[mcpcartier]

So APR says this is irreparable...

I can't imagine that is the case...anyone been down the road of having a HPFP repaired? If so who did it? Looking for some options.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/mcpcartier/IMG_5553_zpso9xpxx3c.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/mcpcartier/media/IMG_5553_zpso9xpxx3c.jpg.html)

[i3oricua]

If I remember correctly when I upgraded the internals on my pump I replaced those parts. Look on JHMs site and see.

https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-high-pressure-mechanical-fuel-pump-upgrade-kit-hpfp-for-audi-and-vw-20t-fsi-p-2653.html?cPath=21_62_65_255

[aluthman]

Buying a set of pump internals will fix it. Make sure everything is clean clean clean when you put it together and listen to the torque specs that come with the kit.

[vce1232000]

Id go with IE internals[up].

[ericw.]

I have IE internals in my pump right now. No problems at all.
With that, I think the JHM cap at the top of the spring is a bit simpler to understand and the design is less likely to pop off.

The IE cap at the end of the spring (the piece which touches your cam follower) has retaining clips. They have a small possibility of coming off if not perfectly seated.

[mcpcartier]

I'm leaning towards JHM only because Jake's been an avid supporter of the forum for as long as i can remember.

I'll do some digging tonight when I have some time to think it through. Want to have it all rebuilt this weekend (do the timing belt + other junk I've got stacked in the garage which is all due...high mileage).

Thanks for the input...much appreciated.

[ericw.]

Here's a little picture I drew for you. lol

http://i.imgur.com/HeRd7xg.png

If you press the cap in, compressing the spring but not the piston at the same time, these retaining clips can potentially slide out and get lost which leaves you with a HPFP brick. While this would never happen when the HPFP is installed, it's a risk when we're changing cam followers that requires a bit of care.

[Copen-cisco]

I can vouch for IE internals as well.

On your earlier pics it looked like one of the sensors were gone.. you will need that but I'm sure you already know.

[vce1232000]

Id [up] IE piston design. Less likely to leak fuel into oil

[seal66]

john's hpfp. no issues with mine, over 60k miles almost and about 20k on full e85

[aluthman]

john's hpfp. no issues with mine, over 60k miles almost and about 20k on full e85

Stage 1 or stage 2?

[seal66]

Stage 1 or stage 2?
Stage 2

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[mcpcartier]

john's hpfp. no issues with mine, over 60k miles almost and about 20k on full e85

Remind me who John is.....I recall you and JR talking about him a while back.....but I seem to recall slow response and other challenges. I suspect his stuff is great but it would take me weeks/months to get parts and I'd like to have this done by Sunday.

[aluthman]

Remind me who John is.....I recall you and JR talking about him a while back.....but I seem to recall slow response and other challenges. I suspect his stuff is great but it would take me weeks/months to get parts and I'd like to have this done by Sunday.

John @ HPFPupgrade.com

I have their stage 1 pump and it has been problem free for over 50k miles.

[i3oricua]

I don't understand why APR won't fix it under warranty or replace it?

[vvenom800tt]

because apr sucks, theyll want you to rape yourself and buy a whole new pump so they can make more money off you

[vce1232000]

I don't understand why APR won't fix it under warranty or replace it?
Mite be out of the warranty period[confused]

[Theiceman]

What are the costs of these internals ?

[z_wrecker]

$325 on sale right now
What are the costs of these internals ?

[mcpcartier]

John @ HPFPupgrade.com

I have their stage 1 pump and it has been problem free for over 50k miles.

That rings a bell....thanks

[mcpcartier]

Here's a little picture I drew for you. lol

http://i.imgur.com/HeRd7xg.png

If you press the cap in, compressing the spring but not the piston at the same time, these retaining clips can potentially slide out and get lost which leaves you with a HPFP brick. While this would never happen when the HPFP is installed, it's a risk when we're changing cam followers that requires a bit of care.

Interesting...will compare designs and see if my laymen mind feels more comfortable with one over another.

[aluthman]

Here's a little picture I drew for you. lol

http://i.imgur.com/HeRd7xg.png

If you press the cap in, compressing the spring but not the piston at the same time, these retaining clips can potentially slide out and get lost which leaves you with a HPFP brick. While this would never happen when the HPFP is installed, it's a risk when we're changing cam followers that requires a bit of care.

This is the exact same style retainer that is holding all of your valvesprings in your head.

[ericw.]

This is the exact same style retainer that is holding all of your valvesprings in your head.

but you're not removing valve springs every other oil change i hope.

maybe it's just something that I noticed since I'm OCD with detail.. but because of the short length of the rubber hose on the HPFP, pulling/reassembling the pump without also accidentally pressing the side of the "hat"(?) on the edge of the cam lobe hole requires a bit of attention.

That was one benefit I saw to the JHM "hat" was that it's a closed cap and you cannot compress the edge of it without also compressing the piston.
http://i.imgur.com/NbD8Mu9.png

[aluthman]

Banjo bolt here.

[seal66]

Remind me who John is.....I recall you and JR talking about him a while back.....but I seem to recall slow response and other challenges. I suspect his stuff is great but it would take me weeks/months to get parts and I'd like to have this done by Sunday.
Like aluthman said john at HPFPupgrade.com

He used to be but I have been able to get ahold of him first call or email same day

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[jubegnx]

I'm running the IE internals also with the JHM big turbo kit no issues so far.

Main reason I chose it is because of the constant diameter piston.


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[Theiceman]

I guess if you are upgrading this is the way to go. I just wanted to repair my car so 230 for a brand new hitachi pump was the way to go vs 325 for parts.

[mcpcartier]

I don't understand why APR won't fix it under warranty or replace it?

Not sure....I'd like to get a new tappet (cap) for the end of the piston....I think the rest of the pump is in perfect condition. Their only reply was its "irreparable". I'll reach out to them again and see if they'll elaborate. Maybe the tappet is permanently attached to the piston during the assembly process and theoretically can't be replaced. If I could get that part I'd give it a go.

[mcpcartier]

Not sure....I'd like to get a new tappet (cap) for the end of the piston....I think the rest of the pump is in perfect condition. Their only reply was its "irreparable". I'll reach out to them again and see if they'll elaborate. Maybe the tappet is permanently attached to the piston during the assembly process and theoretically can't be replaced. If I could get that part I'd give it a go.

They did elaborate a little....

"When the button of the pump fails in that manner the internals can not be repaired at that point. This is the same damage that is apparent when cam follower failure occurs and unfortunately is catastrophic to the high pressure fuel pump."

I suspect this could be the case, but I don't think its always the case. I'm guessing my internals are fine...but maybe an off-center blow to the piston messes up the internals. The tolerances are very tight...

I really wish they'd disassemble, put in some new seals and cap and test it. I bet it would be fine. But they do not appear to be interested in providing that kind of service.

[Jake@JHM]

I am not familiar with what APR does in their HPFP upgrades so I cannot say for sure if our replacement kit will work. There is a good chance though.

[mcpcartier]

I am not familiar with what APR does in their HPFP upgrades so I cannot say for sure if our replacement kit will work. There is a good chance though.

APR has the larger piston so the JHM piston diameter is too small to work with the APR seals.

[Jake@JHM]

APR has the larger piston so the JHM piston diameter is too small to work with the APR seals.

We actually have a larger piston than APR. It's just our piston shaft reduces to OEM size to fit OEM seals.

[mcpcartier]

We actually have a larger piston than APR. It's just our piston shaft reduces to OEM size to fit OEM seals.

Good point....The APR piston is the same diameter for the majority of it's length. I think that diameter is larger than the OEM diameter which makes the seals the incorrect size. I'll measure it when I get back to the somewhere with calipers.

[Brillo]

The APR shaft/piston diameter is significantly larger than OEM which is why it is capable of pumping about 30% greater volume of fuel at the regulated pressure at high RPMs. This also explains why the higher volume HPFPs result in greater wear of the follower, and therefore need to be checked more often.

[vvenom800tt]

I think the accelerated wear is due more to a higher rate spring isnt it? IE, more pressure on the follower

[Brillo]

No, the spring back pressure is only a minor component of the contact stress between the follower and cam surface. Remember, the piston is pressurizing the fuel to about 1400 psi. That pressure divided by the piston/shaft cross section is about 130 to 140 pounds of force pushing back against the follower/cam. The spring probably adds only about and extra 20 to 30 pounds. If you increase the piston diameter by 30% to get more fuel volume, the fuel back pressure would increase by the same percent. You are now up to 176 pounds plus the spring pressure. That's a lot of force between the cam and follower and explains why they have a propensity to wear.

[yeoj112689]

All I know is to be careful when switching it out NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT to break the fuel pressure regulator valve on the top. Wanna guess how much that would cost to replace it.. IF YOU CAN EVEN FIND ONE! Pain in the ass.

Not that this happened..

[mcpcartier]

So I end up helicoiling the housing and it worked great.

Then Jake at JHM sold me a tappet that I threw on the pump.

Put it back in (with other new parts that were damaged) and all seems good. Did about 300 miles so far and the only thing I noticed is a boost leak (did timing belt/thermostat while it was apart). But fueling is awesome and averaged about 30 mpg commuting this week, better than before.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/mcpcartier/IMG_5720_zpshwrhh237.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/mcpcartier/media/IMG_5720_zpshwrhh237.jpg.html)

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/mcpcartier/IMG_5719_zpslimo9cj9.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/mcpcartier/media/IMG_5719_zpslimo9cj9.jpg.html)

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/mcpcartier/IMG_5718_zps7zyc2niu.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/mcpcartier/media/IMG_5718_zps7zyc2niu.jpg.html)

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/mcpcartier/IMG_5722_zpswqu4a5lz.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/mcpcartier/media/IMG_5722_zpswqu4a5lz.jpg.html)


To make life easier to remove the pump in the future I'm going to replace the barbed low pressure fitting on the pump with a nipple (like the high pressure side) then get an elbow (threaded on one end, barb on the other...like the middle one in the pic below) so I don't need to slide that dang hose on and off every time I want to take the pump out.

Anyone know the thread spec's for the low pressure side? Once I know that I'll know what nipple to get and find the appropriate elbow.


http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/mcpcartier/IMG_5621_zpsbrnssghd.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/mcpcartier/media/IMG_5621_zpsbrnssghd.jpg.html)

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/mcpcartier/DN8HoseEnds011329752979_zpskeycq0yz.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/mcpcartier/media/DN8HoseEnds011329752979_zpskeycq0yz.jpg.html)

[ericw.]

Nice work! glad it's back together and performing.

I think it's pretty rare that you need to remove that rubber hose. It's flexible enough that you can change cam follower with it still attached. I never removed mine except when I rebuilt the pump.

[mcpcartier]

Wasn't a boost leak...my Revo tune had lost it's settings....acquire came back with 0/0/0....reset to 6/2/9...back to normal.

[aviator79]

I guess if you are upgrading this is the way to go. I just wanted to repair my car so 230 for a brand new hitachi pump was the way to go vs 325 for parts.

Where did you get a new one for $230? I am guessing Importec. They are OOS so canceled my order. I might only need a new spring retainer if someone had a stock one I could use....It is possible the internals or housing is damaged thou so I figure I will just buy a new pump.

[Theiceman]

Yeah I couldn't find the retainer either so had to bite the bullet on a new pump. Amazon.


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[Cobra351]

The Pierburg(this is OEM, right? has the same part # as the hitachi) hpfp is $249 on ECS:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-pierburg-parts/fuel-pump/06f127025k~pie/

[Theiceman]

Well I would imagine the original equipment supplier would be hitachi. As it say Hitachi right on my original and replacement pump. But that pump looks identical .

[Theiceman]

here is the old link I used to order mine in May 2016.

good luck

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GTHXYT2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[aviator79]

here is the old link I used to order mine in May 2016.

good luck

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GTHXYT2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Pump I bought is stamped HPP0004 so that is the correct pump and cheapest price.

[chiby]

Apologies for resurrecting this dead post, but well, after buying a bargain last week, i had to learn after lots of reading that the 2006 2.0 tfsi engine this a4 has... well, susceptible to this issue. After checking the cam follower, this is what I found:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/12Pt1q6CYxf9C4xbA (i hope this link can be opened...)


The follower is obviously gone... and the camshaft, too. Ordered these now. But before this story turns into a real financial disaster I'm trying to fix the hpfp instead of buying a new. But to do so, I would need confirmation that the retainer/tappet I have is not an early version/different style, but basically that button cell looking thing at the end of the retainer I can see on every other pictures on the web is somehow fallen out or so (honestly, can't see any obvious damage to my retainer, so was wondering that perhaps it was like this originally?). Can someone confirm this middle thing is missing and if so anyone in a position to have access to one now and measure for me the thickness of that button cell looking part so I could fabricate one and weld or press somehow into place? This could potentially save me few hundreds...

thx!

Edit: well... silly me, the answer for my first question is right there in the first post....(picture). So I definitely did have a button cell like thing originally, now just need to figure out its exact thickness. Anyone could help me and measure how far that middle part is protruding?

[Theiceman]

Just get a new hpfp from amazon and move on. Pump cam and follower are just part of the game. My cam was fine. The real risk is where did the metal fragments go.

Believe me as far as issues go with this engine , you are at the tip of the iceberg. But its a great engine if you love to wrench like me
Btw pic does not work. Load from mobile device or use imgur link


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[mcpcartier]

Apologies for resurrecting this dead post, but well, after buying a bargain last week, i had to learn after lots of reading that the 2006 2.0 tfsi engine this a4 has... well, susceptible to this issue. After checking the cam follower, this is what I found:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/12Pt1q6CYxf9C4xbA (i hope this link can be opened...)


The follower is obviously gone... and the camshaft, too. Ordered these now. But before this story turns into a real financial disaster I'm trying to fix the hpfp instead of buying a new. But to do so, I would need confirmation that the retainer/tappet I have is not an early version/different style, but basically that button cell looking thing at the end of the retainer I can see on every other pictures on the web is somehow fallen out or so (honestly, can't see any obvious damage to my retainer, so was wondering that perhaps it was like this originally?). Can someone confirm this middle thing is missing and if so anyone in a position to have access to one now and measure for me the thickness of that button cell looking part so I could fabricate one and weld or press somehow into place? This could potentially save me few hundreds...

thx!

Edit: well... silly me, the answer for my first question is right there in the first post....(picture). So I definitely did have a button cell like thing originally, now just need to figure out its exact thickness. Anyone could help me and measure how far that middle part is protruding?

I got my replacement tappet (post #38 https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/710458-HPFP-Repair?p=11697690&viewfull=1#post11697690) from JHM. If I recall it was $30 plus shipping. I'll see if I can dig up the part number or shipping documents...but it's been a while. Installation is shown here...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZPpQvJo4iU

[chiby]

Just get a new hpfp from amazon and move on. Pump cam and follower are just part of the game. My cam was fine. The real risk is where did the metal fragments go.

Believe me as far as issues go with this engine , you are at the tip of the iceberg. But its a great engine if you love to wrench like me
Btw pic does not work. Load from mobile device or use imgur link


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I agree that would be the simplest, but in the given context, I have to consider and try to fix it first. The whole car cost me $600 (after all it is now a dying, 12 yo car). Already ordered tb kit and the cam kit (totalling ~1200). If I have to fork out another $300 on the pump, i would rather send the already ordered stuff back and forget about this whole thing. as it wouldn't be economical to fix it any more, especially as you mentioned i am worried, too about the metal fragments and where they ended up. So understandably not too keen to pump (LOL) too much more money into this.

Thanks for the suggestion with imgur. uploaded pictures there now, pls let me know if it is better:

https://imgur.com/a/nKmqmoL

As you see it doesn't look too bad at all. Theoretically i would need to cut off 3-6 mm (i don't know the exact measures) off from a 10mm steel rod and file its edges and press in.

[chiby]

I got my replacement tappet (post #38 https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/710458-HPFP-Repair?p=11697690&viewfull=1#post11697690) from JHM. If I recall it was $30 plus shipping. I'll see if I can dig up the part number or shipping documents...but it's been a while. Installation is shown here...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZPpQvJo4iU

THX! Yeah, I saw your original post, and this is exactly why I started thinking and looking at options how to fix it instead of replacing the whole thing, the same way you did it too. Sent an email to JHM last week(on thanksgiving day..), but I received no response yet. I guess they will be back in office on Monday and expect them to reply. Though quite temped just to cut a piece off from a steel rod which would cost $1-2 only. Then check it after first few miles then 50, then 100... and if no excessive wear, then fix was successful :-) otherwise....

[Theiceman]

the pump is cheaper than the parts.

[chiby]

Well, true if you consider the upgrade parts, but I'm not interested in upgrading, more than happy with stock.

Thought it is fair to give an update and a big thumb up/thanks to JHM. While they won't sell their tappet from the upgrade set alone, we found a compromise/solution for my problem. Engine is running ok now. (Now just need to fix the cvt issuue or swap it out with a manual, but that's a different topic..)

[hvcceducator]

cheap ass nobody wants to hear about your cheap fix

[Theiceman]

cheap ass nobody wants to hear about your cheap fix

well reality is no one want to hear from you !!! ...... period ...

[dalmation53]

well reality is no one want to hear from you !!! ...... period ...And he is calling someone cheap when he was the one who stole a whole turbo [emoji848]

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[EvolutionArmory]

cheap ass nobody wants to hear about your cheap fix

Just do us all a favor and have that heroin overdose I’ve been hoping for.