Hours after APR tune motor seized

[apdbxba]

Decided to join to let all know about my APR stage1 Tune and blown motor experience while car was still under warranty. Drove car hard for couple hours after tune. Car will limp and misfired. Had coil pack and sparks plug check and local shop. Towed car to shop to have Tune removed before going to audi service. While audi was troubling shooting motor completely seized. Complete motor was replaced under warranty. I had car for 2 years before tuning because of fear of flagging audi does. Not sure why car wasn't flagged, I am very grateful for that. But now I have completely new motor. Thinking about tuning again.....it cant happen twice right?

[TappaNuKegga]

Did you have your S4's service and engine replacement done at Audi Silver Spring by any chance?


EDIT: Don't worry, I'm not the Audi-police.

[sc117]

So then maybe I should get my tune before warranty expires?


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[Dannydyn]

Just curious,

How long did it take audi to replace the motor from the moment it was deemed as a 'shot' one?

[waxxonMTL]

couple hours.. meaning you never let the ecu adapt to the new tunes ?

[apdbxba]

Not suggesting for or against tune while under warranty. Just my experience. From what I have seen and understand if you tune and have serious problems Audi will always detect. I think it has to do with Audi corporate, and the type of scans they do for this type of replacement part failure. Not sure dealership has much to do with it. But I could be wrong..as usual.

[apdbxba]

I was told by APR dealer that no break in was required. Drove moderately for about 2 hrs...then pushed for 3. Then it started going limp

[bhvrdr]

No break in is required. The ecu adapts instantly and on a progressive ongoing basis.

Good to know flashing to stock seemed to work for you. I'm guessing either: 1. something was wrong with your car that finally let go, 2. It was misdiagnosed by the dealership and didn't need to be replaced or they actually screwed it up to the point it needed to be replaced, or 3. They accidentally flashed the 100 octane file (heavily doubt this). I'm guessing number 2 actually. I believe that's actually what happened to schirm.

Mike

[Evan2]

Did you have your S4's service and engine replacement done at Audi Silver Spring by any chance?


EDIT: Don't worry, I'm not the Audi-police.
That is what police say!

[apdbxba]

Tune and service done in PA

[TappaNuKegga]

Tune and service done in PA

Don't mean to scare you guys but here's why I was hoping OP's car was serviced at Silver Spring.

I was at said Audi dealer last week for my 25k audicare service. Shooting the sh*t with the techs for a while as usual. They bring me over to a b8.5 S4 that was having it's engine(~50k on engine) replaced under warranty for seizing up during diagnosing an issue. Not sure what the cause was, or if a tune was involved or not, but the result was a bent piston rod. Techs said they didn't mean to scare me but told me to make sure I get an extended warranty.

I'd like to give a shout out to all the BMW fans dropping by after one fan catches wind of this thread and goes running back to the beamer forums saying S4's engines are prone to blowing up. Much like they did with the Audi's oil burning issues.

[shoe3k]

What caused the motor to go? How many miles on the car?

[MrFunk]

I was told by APR dealer that no break in was required. Drove moderately for about 2 hrs...then pushed for 3. Then it started going limp

So, you drove the car 5 hours straight after picking it up? What do you mean "then pushed for 3"? Were you on a track?
What did Audi state the cause was of the motor seizing?

[B8 S4]

Don't mean to scare you guys but here's why I was hoping OP's car was serviced at Silver Spring.

I was at said Audi dealer last week for my 25k audicare service. Shooting the sh*t with the techs for a while as usual. They bring me over to a b8.5 S4 that was having it's engine(~50k on engine) replaced under warranty for seizing up during diagnosing an issue. Not sure what the cause was, or if a tune was involved or not, but the result was a bent piston rod. Techs said they didn't mean to scare me but told me to make sure I get an extended warranty.

I'd like to give a shout out to all the BMW fans dropping by after one fan catches wind of this thread and goes running back to the beamer forums saying S4's engines are prone to blowing up. Much like they did with the Audi's oil burning issues.

Thats probably just the standard extended warranty tour at that dealership to scare people into buying it. My gramps just bought a kia and once sold they told him it was the most common car to break down to try to get him to buy extended warranty.

[TappaNuKegga]

Thats probably just the standard extended warranty tour at that dealership to scare people into buying it. My gramps just bought a kia and once sold they told him it was the most common car to break down to try to get him to buy extended warranty.

I hope you're right but the techs seemed sincere. Whether they were trying to sell me a warranty or not, a bent rod that belonged to an engine with ~50k miles sends off alarm bells for me. I have a feeling that 3.0T definitely had a tune like OPs though.

[apdbxba]

So, you drove the car 5 hours straight after picking it up? What do you mean "then pushed for 3"? Were you on a track?
What did Audi state the cause was of the motor seizing?

Not tracked, but drove car as fast. Road raced a few vehicles to see the performance. Pounding up and down on DSG, taking the car as fast as it would go. I did this for several hours...before limp started occurring

[CrownSeven]

Don't mean to scare you guys but here's why I was hoping OP's car was serviced at Silver Spring.

I was at said Audi dealer last week for my 25k audicare service. Shooting the sh*t with the techs for a while as usual. They bring me over to a b8.5 S4 that was having it's engine(~50k on engine) replaced under warranty for seizing up during diagnosing an issue. Not sure what the cause was, or if a tune was involved or not, but the result was a bent piston rod. Techs said they didn't mean to scare me but told me to make sure I get an extended warranty.

I'd like to give a shout out to all the BMW fans dropping by after one fan catches wind of this thread and goes running back to the beamer forums saying S4's engines are prone to blowing up. Much like they did with the Audi's oil burning issues.

Er ma god! Everyone get extended warranty pronto!!!.

The 3.0T is one of the most reliable engines Audi has developed and has been in use for many years without major issues across many different models.

If you wanna blow 5 g's on an extended warranty because you think your motor is going to blow after 50K - you should get yourself another car.

- - - Updated - - -


Not tracked, but drove car as fast. Road raced a few vehicles to see the performance. Pounding up and down on DSG, taking the car as fast as it would go. I did this for several hours...before limp started occurring

Were you trying to blow the motor?

[shoe3k]

http://i.imgur.com/9CF07i6.jpg (http://imgur.com/9CF07i6)

[kcobourn]

http://i.imgur.com/9CF07i6.jpg (http://imgur.com/9CF07i6)

This

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160603/df9676c39219c9241ad2e3815ce7c67f.jpg


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[MrFunk]

Not tracked, but drove car as fast. Road raced a few vehicles to see the performance. Pounding up and down on DSG, taking the car as fast as it would go. I did this for several hours...before limp started occurring

LOL - ok buddy... thanks for confirming my initial thoughts of => BS

[apdbxba]

Er ma god! Everyone get extended warranty pronto!!!.

The 3.0T is one of the most reliable engines Audi has developed and has been in use for many years without major issues across many different models.

If you wanna blow 5 g's on an extended warranty because you think your motor is going to blow after 50K - you should get yourself another car.

- - - Updated - - -



Were you trying to blow the motor?

I like to drive cars to their potential. I drove car after tune on different then bfore tune. Car was just faster. I love the car. I really not much concern about failed parts or why...I just keep under warranty. FYI my 535i has a Dinan stage 2 and that caused the car to have all sort of issue...Tranny replacement being just 1 along with the constant failing fuel pump and injectors, etc. So not sure what the BMW guys will think of that. I like European cars but only under warranty. Maybe I am car abusive...so I pay the extra for warranty. I just couldn't believe engine failure same day as tune.

[ptper]

http://i.imgur.com/9CF07i6.jpg (http://imgur.com/9CF07i6)

Well...it was good while it lasted [:D]


Don't mean to scare you guys but here's why I was hoping OP's car was serviced at Silver Spring.

I was at said Audi dealer last week for my 25k audicare service. Shooting the sh*t with the techs for a while as usual. They bring me over to a b8.5 S4 that was having it's engine(~50k on engine) replaced under warranty for seizing up during diagnosing an issue. Not sure what the cause was, or if a tune was involved or not, but the result was a bent piston rod. Techs said they didn't mean to scare me but told me to make sure I get an extended warranty.

I'd like to give a shout out to all the BMW fans dropping by after one fan catches wind of this thread and goes running back to the beamer forums saying S4's engines are prone to blowing up. Much like they did with the Audi's oil burning issues.

Do you remember the tech's name? That is my go-to dealer for service and was just curious if I know him.

[cspcrx]

With all of the tuned cars out there and on this forum, and that the APR is probably the least aggressive, I struggle to believe it was the tune that did it. As mentioned above sounds like something was going and the extended flogging put it over the edge.

[apdbxba]

LOL - ok buddy... thanks for confirming my initial thoughts of => BS

Not clear on meaning of => BS. Can you clarify?

[BoostEasy]

The St1 tune would be pretty unlikely to blow the engine I would think, esp not a bent rod. To bend a rod you'd need to have some material land in between the piston and head. Not saying blowing the engine is impossible just not very likely from the tune. The intercooler could have sprung a leak, filled a cylinder and when Audi techs started it maybe whacked the piston into it and bent the rod. I think we've seen at least one SC intercooler spring a leak on the forum but I forget if it hurt the engine.

I was never really thrilled with this SC intercooler design for exactly this reason and several others. Nice for packaging though.

[TappaNuKegga]

Do you remember the tech's name? That is my go-to dealer for service and was just curious if I know him.

The tech at Audi Silver Spring who was working with my car (diagnosing a squeaky clutch pedal among other things) and who performed the aforementioned engine replacement was Marcus. Great guy.



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[saxon]

did they diagnose why the motor seized up? pretty common problem is the intercooler cores leak antifreeze into the intake and that could lead to a hydrolocked motor

[SportVier]

Hours after <insert competitor name> tune motor seized

[Sceanzo]

Post a pic of the repair order.

[Sean@APR]

Not tracked, but drove car as fast. Road raced a few vehicles to see the performance. Pounding up and down on DSG, taking the car as fast as it would go. I did this for several hours...before limp started occurring

That won't hurt it at all. It's like a regular day for an APR employee car.

In all seriousness, this is almost certainly an engine that was already marginal and the tune pushed it over the edge. I'm glad it was well handled and you should absolutely tune the new one.

[Sean@APR]

did they diagnose why the motor seized up? pretty common problem is the intercooler cores leak antifreeze into the intake and that could lead to a hydrolocked motor

He's right and your hard driving makes it seem pretty reasonable. Get the engine nice and hot and the coolant system pressurized for a while to fill the cylinders with water.

[Jay@JXB]

I like to drive cars to their potential. I drove car after tune on different then bfore tune. Car was just faster. I love the car. I really not much concern about failed parts or why...I just keep under warranty. FYI my 535i has a Dinan stage 2 and that caused the car to have all sort of issue...Tranny replacement being just 1 along with the constant failing fuel pump and injectors, etc. So not sure what the BMW guys will think of that. I like European cars but only under warranty. Maybe I am car abusive...so I pay the extra for warranty. I just couldn't believe engine failure same day as tune.

I beat the shit out of my Uni Stage 2 B8.5. Track days and Autocross every weekend (just riding the rev-limiter in 2nd). If your car dies it's because it was a dud from the beginning, because mine would have died first.


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[GabrielSyler]

I see this as a positive... that the APR tunes don't get flagged when reflashed!

I hope you get the car back on the road soon!

[schirm]

Just curious,

How long did it take audi to replace the motor from the moment it was deemed as a 'shot' one?

For me it was 3 weeks, long block had to be shipped from overseas.

[apdbxba]

For me it was 3 weeks, long block had to be shipped from overseas.

Total turn around time was 2 mths. Mostly due to troubleshooting.

[jsh139]

I see this as a positive... that the APR tunes don't get flagged when reflashed!

I hope you get the car back on the road soon!

He did say that he had the tune removed first (i.e., flashed back to stock at the APR dealer).

[Dannydyn]

Total turn around time was 2 mths. Mostly due to troubleshooting.

Holy $hit! I assume you were provided with a loaner?

[mavz]

He did say that he had the tune removed first (i.e., flashed back to stock at the APR dealer).

I think that's what he meant lol, that flashing back to stock didn't raise any immediate flags.

[SpaceGhost]

I was actually at my go to Audi shop getting some work done and chatting with the owner about getting a tune and mentioned apt tune and he immediately shot me down. According to him, he has had 5 Audis come in with a blown motor after the apr tune. He suggested GIAC and I went with it.

Haven't had any problems.

[jran76]

OP, can you post a picture of the repair invoice from the dealer?

[S-Fore]

Not tracked, but drove car as fast. Road raced a few vehicles to see the performance. Pounding up and down on DSG, taking the car as fast as it would go. I did this for several hours...before limp started occurring

= awesome......

[saxon]

I was actually at my go to Audi shop getting some work done and chatting with the owner about getting a tune and mentioned apt tune and he immediately shot me down. According to him, he has had 5 Audis come in with a blown motor after the apr tune. He suggested GIAC and I went with it.

Haven't had any problems.

he probably doesnt sell the apr tune and only sells the giac (fyi i dont believe there are any dealers that have both)

so of course he is going to push a product that they will make a profit on

[Senseless]

Thats probably just the standard extended warranty tour at that dealership to scare people into buying it. My gramps just bought a kia and once sold they told him it was the most common car to break down to try to get him to buy extended warranty.

Yeah, my tech made an attempt to sell me an extended warranty citing the high cost of DSG replacement. When he realized it was a 6MT, he gave it up. I would never buy one anyway. Dealer finance guys always get frustrated with me.

[apdbxba]

OP, can you post a picture of the repair invoice from the dealer?

Tried to post snipit of order but have no I idea how to- newbie to forum. If this is about seeing to believe, you don't have to believe. Just sharing my experience. I mauled over getting car tuned for 2 yrs. I read just about every thread related to it. Just couldn't believe how "unlucky" motor blown and "lucky" motor replaced I was. I firmly believe that my motor must have had some issue already. And that tuning and my driving style helped to bring this to light. ? for forum....in light of what happen to my car, is there any why to determine if the motor current state has any issues. Prior to tuning I had the car in shop for routine maintenance. EPC light came on twice in 1 week but clear after restart and didn't return. Audi stated no issue not sure what diagnoses they ran.

[cspcrx]

I may have missed it but what year? How many miles? DSG or 6mt?

Dealers now days are less about fixing than they are about replacing. Its cheaper and quicker for them to change a short block than to rebuild one, not for you, but for them. This sucks for those who truly want to understand what failed.

Without knowing what failed in your motor its impossible to know what signs to look for. You need to try and get that answer.

[apdbxba]

I may have missed it but what year? How many miles? DSG or 6mt?

Dealers now days are less about fixing than they are about replacing. Its cheaper and quicker for them to change a short block than to rebuild one, not for you, but for them. This sucks for those who truly want to understand what failed.

Without knowing what failed in your motor its impossible to know what signs to look for. You need to try and get that answer.

2012 DSG SP Dif 60K.... Audi says issue was spun bearing. I not sure what that means or if that helps

[rubicant5x]

2012 DSG SP Dif 60K.... Audi says issue was spun bearing. I not sure what that means or if that helps
Spun bearing is where one of the crankshaft bearings spins around with the crankshaft rather than being seating place.

[cspcrx]

Yes that helps a lot. Spun bearings are generally caused by oil issues, clearance issues or over rev but that could not have been the issue on the DSG car, not tunes. There is a ton on the web about this but generally it is an issue with the thin layer of oil that exists between the bearing, crank and rods. Sounds like there may have just been an issue with the bearing all along or for what ever reason that oil passage got plugged or restricted. Hard to say without truly looking at it, which I doubt they will actually do.

Your title is not fair to APR or any tuner, not trying to trash or bash you, just feel it is not fair to blame them.

Glad your getting it fixed with out any cost to you.

[apdbxba]

Yes that helps a lot. Spun bearings are generally caused by oil issues, clearance issues or over rev but that could not have been the issue on the DSG car, not tunes. There is a ton on the web about this but generally it is an issue with the thin layer of oil that exists between the bearing, crank and rods. Sounds like there may have just been an issue with the bearing all along or for what ever reason that oil passage got plugged or restricted. Hard to say without truly looking at it, which I doubt they will actually do.

Your title is not fair to APR or any tuner, not trying to trash or bash you, just feel it is not fair to blame them.

Glad your getting it fixed with out any cost to you.

I will most likely tune car again using APR. Agreed title could easily be misinterpreted and respect your opinion. I was not trying to suggest\imply that tune caused the motor to fail. Just wanted to provide forum members honest experience. I researched Audi tunes and members results and final pulled the trigger, and within hour I was done. My real concern wasn't what happen.....I believe is it was sheer coincidence and or bad lucky...but the flagging issue. My heart kinda sunk when my local mechanics and apr tune shop mechanic said they would have to start tearing down the motor to determine fix. I was like damn, I hope for a couple hours of tune driving I haven't voided my warranty. I have had dinan tune BMW for years.. and different parts always failed but it never effected my warranty. I thank for you insight regarding the spun bearing.

APDBX

[cspcrx]

No trouble and it sure does suck! Getting it fixed for free should take the sting off though and glad to hear your going right back to a tune.

Hope they get it up and running for your quickly.

[dreaddontdie]

Spun bearing is where one of the crankshaft bearings spins around with the crankshaft rather than being seating place.

This is presumed to be the reason my (first) engine seized. Driving hard. Car sounded like it was over-revving right before the seize. It was weird....I let go of the gas and I heard the engine was still revving hard. Then it seized. What a terrible day.

Looking at one of the crankshaft bearings, one was seized onto the crankshaft. I have a pic somewhere...

[doug97gxe]

This is presumed to be the reason my (first) engine seized. Driving hard. Car sounded like it was over-revving right before the seize. It was weird....I let go of the gas and I heard the engine was still revving hard. Then it seized. What a terrible day.

Looking at one of the crankshaft bearings, one was seized onto the crankshaft. I have a pic somewhere...

tuned or not tuned at the time?

[bayonet14]

Tune your next whip - but may I suggest that you push "anything" hard repeatedly and in short order...stuff will break;)

[apdbxba]

No trouble and it sure does suck! Getting it fixed for free should take the sting off though and glad to hear your going right back to a tune.

Hope they get it up and running for your quickly.


Drove car for about 1,000 then had tuned again. Have put about 3,000 since and car is performing like a champ.

[S4NJ]

Nice. Are you romping on it each day as it properly should?