Need help in deciding which STGII tune to pick

[shoe3k]

I can't decide between EPL or GIAC. The quoted costs between them are very close, which makes this harder to decide. Anybody have any regrets going with either of these tunes?

[doug97gxe]

i have an EPL tune.. but i'm not going to be biased .. i will tell you most of the tunes are pretty damn close in performance .. you should go with the tune that is closest to you and offer's you the best support.. EPL is flash from home and tony is pretty good with support so that for me was the closest .. but if you have a GIAC Dealer very very close to you.. you should weigh that in your options.. F all the 1/4 mile times.. they are all pretty close and most people are not going to get those numbers with the same mod's ... also keep into account if you are flashing back to stock for service you should keep in mind the cost of each time you flash your car for a tune or stock tune

[BJYorko]

I went with EPL. Happy with the flash from home option and as others have said on this forum, there is not much difference between the top stage 2 tuners (APR, GIAC and EPL).

[bmoreS4]

I have EPL, very happy with it.

[whiped]

As others have said the tunes are pretty similar.

I'm currently trying to decide between APR and EPL for stage 2. The deciding factor for me will be if the shop charges for flashing back to stock and then back to Stage II

[LINDW4LL]

It seems to me that APR/GIAC files seem to produce more consistent / better results. That may or may not be the case in reality, but it's the impression I get from the forums and the data that's been shared. Nothing against EPL, but I am partial to the better proven products. APR/GIAC files are on thousands of cars at this point, and have been for several years, and thus those files are pretty much perfect at this point.

That being said, the ability to flash back to stock (while nice) is not a must have feature for me personally. I have a local shop within 15 miles that will flash to stock (and back) for free, and dealer visits are not common anyway.

[bmoreS4]

It seems to me that APR/GIAC files seem to produce more consistent / better results. That may or may not be the case in reality, but it's the impression I get from the forums and the data that's been shared. Nothing against EPL, but I am partial to the better proven products. APR/GIAC files are on thousands of cars at this point, and have been for several years, and thus those files are pretty much perfect at this point.

That being said, the ability to flash back to stock (while nice) is not a must have feature for me personally. I have a local shop within 15 miles that will flash to stock (and back) for free, and dealer visits are not common anyway.

Perfect? Might wanna check out the APR issues threads, lol

EPL also has thousands of tunes, should research before you speak false info.

[Rez90]

+1 for EPL

[Pyromatic177]

But EPL has the prospect of the dual pulley setup. If you wanted more power.

[Loe]

I can't decide between EPL or GIAC. The quoted costs between them are very close, which makes this harder to decide. Anybody have any regrets going with either of these tunes?

I've had both developers fwiw. What is stopping you from picking either one? Better yet, what attracts you to either company?

Also, these polls always end up well... lol

[MrFunk]

I had STaSIS v2 (REVO). Car threw knock codes. Went to GIAC and been very happy trouble free for years now which is why they get my vote. The race file on 102 (all I can find around here) is excellent fun.

[bmoreS4]

But EPL has the prospect of the dual pulley setup. If you wanted more power.

Yup and e85

[LINDW4LL]

Perfect? Might wanna check out the APR issues threads, lol

EPL also has thousands of tunes, should research before you speak false info.
EPL has tuned thousands of 3.0Ts? No.

[bmoreS4]

EPL has tuned thousands of 3.0Ts? No.

That's not what you said, try sticking to your own statement. You said thousands of cars, not thousands of 3.0t's.

OP - Do what is most convenient for you, but don't let anyone tell you that the big tuners are perfect, cause that's just silly.

[LINDW4LL]

That's not what you said, try sticking to your own statement. You said thousands of cars, not thousands of 3.0t's.
When I said "APR/GIAC files are on thousands of cars", I was referring to the platform we're discussing. Sorry for not being more clear.

Also, you seem hostile. I'm not anti-EPL at all. I think it's a good option.




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[awwturbo]

That's not what you said, try sticking to your own statement. You said thousands of cars, not thousands of 3.0t's.

OP - Do what is most convenient for you, but don't let anyone tell you that the big tuners are perfect, cause that's just silly.

I believe that is exactly what he said. Please do not make this into a flame thread. You have your opinions, he has his. I went with GIAC Stage 2 and am very happy.

[importraceram]

It seems to me that APR/GIAC files seem to produce more consistent / better results. That may or may not be the case in reality, but it's the impression I get from the forums and the data that's been shared. Nothing against EPL, but I am partial to the better proven products. APR/GIAC files are on thousands of cars at this point, and have been for several years, and thus those files are pretty much perfect at this point.

That being said, the ability to flash back to stock (while nice) is not a must have feature for me personally. I have a local shop within 15 miles that will flash to stock (and back) for free, and dealer visits are not common anyway.

I would have to agree with you on the fact that there really isn't a huge sample size showing EPL 1/4 times. I have EPL, while the car definitely feels stronger than stock I still think something is off from traditional stage 2 performance. I posted a 0-60 video on another EPL thread and it looks a bit off. I hear there is going to be some stage 2 updated files out this coming week so hopefully that will dial my car in. Once we get the launch bumped up a bit from the stock 3200rpm, the early shifting on launch figured out, and the updated stage 2 file, I have every intention of helping prove the legitimacy of this tune with comparable competitor 1/4 times.

One thing that I can say for sure about my EPL experience thus far is Tony and Chris have provided tremendous customer service/support.

[Loe]

I would have to agree with you on the fact that there really isn't a huge sample size showing EPL 1/4 times. I have EPL, while the car definitely feels stronger than stock I still think something is off from traditional stage 2 performance. I posted a 0-60 video on another EPL thread and it looks a bit off. I hear there is going to be some stage 2 updated files out this coming week so hopefully that will dial my car in. Once we get the launch bumped up a bit from the stock 3200rpm, the early shifting on launch figured out, and the updated stage 2 file, I have every intention of helping prove the legitimacy of this tune with comparable competitor 1/4 times.

One thing that I can say for sure about my EPL experience thus far is Tony and Chris have provided tremendous customer service/support.

Good luck to you sir! Hopefully more times will come in as more and more make it to the track and continued revisions are made.

I unfortunately didn't have favorable results last fall when I was EPL stage 1 (running 93/100 octane to make sure I can hit the highest timing the conditions would allow me to) and ran the same day as AZ memeber FLYNGGLEGS with his APR stage 1 running 93 octane only. He ran 12.5@109mph consistently, I ran 12.7@107mph once. I believe Saxon had a similar experience and ran quicker times directly after he switched to APR. But this was 2015 results, and I understand there has been revisions since. Would be very interested to see any updates from EPL (or any other tuner, cough cough 034motorsports lol) as I would like to eventually run a dedicated dual-pulley file without the need for full E85.

[jokingjimmy]

OP, I think you should just decide on whether you want to do the flash or have a shop do it. Pros and cons for either tune. They are both pretty solid and have good support. EPL will be easier from a logistics (scheduling time to take the car in) and cost (most shops charge to add/change tunes) standpoint. GIAC will have extra support from the shop who installs it and a longer history on this specific motor. GIAC and EPL both seem to have lightning quick responses to service issues. The flash at home from EPL is so ridiculously simple, though, that you don't need to be a wrench turner to do it. Hope this helps...

[xuandatou]

It seems to me that APR/GIAC files seem to produce more consistent / better results. That may or may not be the case in reality, but it's the impression I get from the forums and the data that's been shared. Nothing against EPL, but I am partial to the better proven products. APR/GIAC files are on thousands of cars at this point, and have been for several years, and thus those files are pretty much perfect at this point.

That being said, the ability to flash back to stock (while nice) is not a must have feature for me personally. I have a local shop within 15 miles that will flash to stock (and back) for free, and dealer visits are not common anyway.

What he said ! [up]

[bhvrdr]

I think you've narrowed it down to two excellent choices.

GIAC Pros:
-tons of data showing consistent performance (1/4 mile times, datalogs)
-excellent reputation
-large company with multiple avenues for support
-they request a ton of unattainable boost so if you add a dual pulley you will benefit from it using the canned stage 2 software
-well regarded TCU program that can compliment ECU tune

CONS:
-can't flash at home
-no specific e85 support if that matters to you
-no custom tuning unless you are one of a very very select few who have an inside line with them

EPL Pros:
-excellent reputation
-flash at home convenience
-small company that can provide individualized support
-the possibility of custom tunes or tunes that support dual pulley, e85, etc
-well regarded TCU tune to compliment the ECU tune

CONS:
-very little datalog and consistent 1/4 mile data (smaller number sold so not necessarily their fault)
-small company may mean awesome customer support when available but downside is it is primarily a one man show so if that man is moving, sick, busy with group buy, etc, you may need to wait your turn


IMO both companies offer great attributes that may mean more to you individually. If you lived in rural wyoming, i'd think flashing at home would clearly be a much larger asset than if you live 10 minutes from a top GIAC dealer. If you plan to run e85 exclusively, i'd think EPL would be ahead for you. If you are one to set it and forget it and want to run the best 1/4 mile times and not want to do anything custom, perhaps GIAC may be the one you want.

I dont think you'll kick yourself for going either way.

Mike

[shoe3k]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the replies! The main issue I was having with the EPL tune was due to some inconsistencies I have read about here on the forum and some of the videos I have seen. It's pretty funny that the poll results are pretty split down the middle but it was worth at try. I thought I was going to pull the trigger on the EPL but still unsure of the choice. I will probably give this another week or so before deciding.

[ptper]

Like folks have said GIAC/APR are well established (and charge a premium for it). EPL is the new kid on the block that offers a flash-at-home option with excellent customer service. Not a ton of 1/4 mile data yet, though the slips I have seen look to be very impressive and promising. Which reminds me...can we get the those slips posted to the 1/4 mile thread and ask @Arin@APR to get off his duff and update the list?!?!

OP - Ask Induktion to let you know the next time they do a flash on a customer's car, I know they've set up test drives for other prospective customers before. Good luck!

[vwblackb5]

Currently still Team OEM on my MY16 but when I do decide I am probably going straight to Stage 2 with GIAC. As far as flashing back to stock, imho it's pretty pointless if the dealership decides to plug your ecu and run a spec/actual. Obviously ymmv, but when YOLO'ng by going stage 2 under warranty, you better be ready to pay to play.


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[waxxonMTL]

unless your looking for world-breaking record.. you can got with epl and have peac eof mind that the performance of your car has been enhanced. For me, it was that, I'm not looking at drag time ( if i wanted a 11 or 10 sec car, i would've bought a different car lol), just looking to get the ''max performance'' i can get at a resonable price and if you remember, this winter there was a GB at stg2 + tcu tune for 1400$ i believe... pretty cheap. so even if it's 0.2 - 0.4 second slower, its about 1000$ cheaper too lol with flahs at home and lots of update ( which lead to think the tune will mature over time)

[shoe3k]

I decided to go with GIAC and have the STG2 installed by Induktion Motorsports on Monday! I'm pretty excited!

[EHesh14]

I decided to go with GIAC and have the STG2 installed by Induktion Motorsports on Monday! I'm pretty excited!

Nice choice! I have had the tune for a year and a half and about 40k miles without one hiccup

[shoe3k]

Nice choice! I have had the tune for a year and a half and about 40k miles without one hiccup

That is the reason why I went with the tune since it has been proven. I also like having the handheld switcher for running higher octane fuels, which is great because I have 104 readily available by my house. It doesn't hurt that my tuner is 8 miles away from my house :)

[bmoreS4]

I decided to go with GIAC and have the STG2 installed by Induktion Motorsports on Monday! I'm pretty excited!

Nice, fellow MD guy?

[VeNoMS4]

People with EPL tune here, did you all buy the stage 1 with a TCU tune and cable to flash the ECU/TCU? How much did you spend on it? I'm talking to a chris from EPL and he said i can have the stage 1 ECU, TCU tune, and cable for $1550 shipped. i'm new to all this and wondering if this is a decent deal?

thanks

[ptper]

I decided to go with GIAC and have the STG2 installed by Induktion Motorsports on Monday! I'm pretty excited!

Nice job, man. You will be happy. [up]

[bmoreS4]

People with EPL tune here, did you all buy the stage 1 with a TCU tune and cable to flash the ECU/TCU? How much did you spend on it? I'm talking to a chris from EPL and he said i can have the stage 1 ECU, TCU tune, and cable for $1550 shipped. i'm new to all this and wondering if this is a decent deal?

thanks

That's a great deal

[The Fat Kid]

Currently still Team OEM on my MY16 but when I do decide I am probably going straight to Stage 2 with GIAC. As far as flashing back to stock, imho it's pretty pointless if the dealership decides to plug your ecu and run a spec/actual. Obviously ymmv, but when YOLO'ng by going stage 2 under warranty, you better be ready to pay to play.


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Dude, your '16 S4 is already old. Just trade it in on something faster before it is worthless [;)]

[shoe3k]

Nice, fellow MD guy?
Yeah. Pasadena.

[Loe]

That is the reason why I went with the tune since it has been proven. I also like having the handheld switcher for running higher octane fuels, which is great because I have 104 readily available by my house. It doesn't hurt that my tuner is 8 miles away from my house :)

Great choice, you'll enjoy it. Give it a few days to adapt (IIRC mine was a good week before I felt the holy-sh!t effect) and you'll be running great times out of the box [:D] The RACE mode runs pretty aggressive timing maps, so be prepared to run an ethanol mix like I do (and CELsion), or straight 100-104 octane.

The handheld switcher makes maps switches within a 10 second timeframe from plugging it into the port, read the current file, switching directly to the race map, and unplugging it. Very simple and effective.

[shoe3k]

Great choice, you'll enjoy it. Give it a few days to adapt (IIRC mine was a good week before I felt the holy-sh!t effect) and you'll be running great times out of the box [:D] The RACE mode runs pretty aggressive timing maps, so be prepared to run an ethanol mix like I do (and CELsion), or straight 100-104 octane.

The handheld switcher makes maps switches within a 10 second timeframe from plugging it into the port, read the current file, switching directly to the race map, and unplugging it. Very simple and effective.

Thanks for the information sir. Does the switcher have 100 and 104 octane modes?

[vwblackb5]

Dude, your '16 S4 is already old. Just trade it in on something faster before it is worthless [;)]

Haha the waiting sucks.. B9 RS4 or bust! I almost traded my other car (B5) in for a MK7 Golf R lulz


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[vwblackb5]

I decided to go with GIAC and have the STG2 installed by Induktion Motorsports on Monday! I'm pretty excited!

That's great! Can you sneak in a before/after Dyno?

That's what I'm planning on doing when I go to AWE, not sure if Induktion has one in house.


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[shoe3k]

That's great! Can you sneak in a before/after Dyno?

That's what I'm planning on doing when I go to AWE, not sure if Induktion has one in house.


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I just emailed Ed@induktion to see if they have a dyno. I know their old place did not have one, but I will definitely do a before and after dyno if they do.

[ptper]

I just emailed Ed@induktion to see if they have a dyno. I know their old place did not have one, but I will definitely do a before and after dyno if they do.

Induktion does not have an in-house dyno. Best bet for awd dyno is probably ISP in College Park.

[bmoreS4]

Yeah. Pasadena.

Im in Belair, if your ever in Harford county let me know and maybe we can get some runs in.

[shoe3k]

Im in Belair, if your ever in Harford county let me know and maybe we can get some runs in.

Definitely!


Induktion does not have an in-house dyno. Best bet for awd dyno is probably ISP in College Park.

I just messaged them for the cost a dyno and what is included in the price. Thanks!

[vwblackb5]

Definitely!



I just messaged them for the cost a dyno and what is included in the price. Thanks!

Any updates on your quest for Stage 2? Anxious to see the before and after Dyno plot, for science of course [emoji3]


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[bayonet14]

I would also look at where you will have the flash done in relation to where your car is serviced (more so if it is a lease/current purchase). What they offer / cost for flash back to stock / re-flash after service and to avoid a tech flagging you TD1

my cost will be $100 bucks ;)

[b8audis4]

I don't have either of the tunes, but I would go with whoever is local to you. For me, it happens to be APR. I am a person that would rather have a shop do the tune, if something does go wrong during the install, I have them to blame, even though the connivence is not as good.