NEED ADVICE! Turbo bearnings starting to go bad?

[brunner1107]

Hi, i'm new to the forum and it's proven to be very useful. I recently bought a 2008 Audi A4 B7 2.0T. The past few days I heard a faint whistle noise rather than a regular turbo spool sound. No smoke, no loss of power, etc. I had the timing belt replaced a month and a half ago and thought maybe it was a pulley, tensioner or something but I feared the turbo.

Long story short - I brought it to Minhs Automotive in Brooklyn and they said the turbo bearings sound like they are starting to go and that they used a stethoscope to check. While they said I could drive it for a little while, it would most likely need to be replaced soon. Grand total to replace is $2,200.

What do you guys think? The price seems dealership high. Any advice would be welcome. Thank you.

[Copen-cisco]

You can get a used turbo in the classifieds for less than $200 even less some times. Install shouldnt be that hard even it you have a shop do it.

$2200 seems like a rip off

[konarider94]

rebuild kits are $30 or less
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/628853-DIY-K03-Rebuild

[1killera4]

2200 = rip off

[ignus99]

While the other advice about $2200 being a rip off (I cannot comment on this, I live in Canada and a new turbo for $2200 would be a STEAL)

That being said, don't hold off in finding out if you need to replace it or not.

If/when the turbo goes, you have 2 scenarios:
1. Exhaust side fails. Meh. Bits and chunks get stuck in your cat, generally not too bad.
2. Intake side fails. Total mess. Parts can have a possibility of traveling through your intercoolers into your engine... generally fucks your engine beyond repair if this happens (mind you, piping and intercoolers will most likely catch the nasty bits before they reach your engine.)

[redline380]

If/when the turbo goes, you have 2 scenarios:
1. Exhaust side fails. Meh. Bits and chunks get stuck in your cat, generally not too bad.
2. Intake side fails. Total mess. Parts can have a possibility of traveling through your intercoolers into your engine... generally fucks your engine beyond repair if this happens (mind you, piping and intercoolers will most likely catch the nasty bits before they reach your engine.)


This really isnt what would happen. You stated worst case scenarios. What actually would happen is the seals fail and you get a ton of smoke, or the compressor wheel will contact the compressor housing and make some bad noises. It is very rare to have one fail in the ways you described.

OP can most likely drive with a little noise for an extended period of time. Either way, he is going to want a quality replacement. Used is an option, but if he plans on keeping the car long, might as well get new. That will run about $1000 and install will be about $500. Would be advised to install a new oil feed line as well.

[miA4]

At that price, you're better off opting for a bigger turbo. CTS sells a K04 setup for about the same price...

[brunner1107]

I'm taking it to another shop to get a second opinion. The original shop that quoted me said the car isn't throwing any code (they sent me the readout), which seems strange. This shop has a great reputation according to YELP, but their prices are obviously high. I'm surprised that they didn't notice anything 1 month ago when I had the timing belt, cam follower and fuel pump replaced, direct injection service cleaning, and more importantly I had the intercooler and turbo ducts cleaned.

[redline380]

At that price, you're better off opting for a bigger turbo. CTS sells a K04 setup for about the same price...

Sure, but with an upgraded turbo comes other upgrades as well, which aren't cheap

[brunner1107]

I am trying to stay as frugal as possible. I've dropped $3,900 on repairs since I bought the car 3 months ago. It's been a pain in my ass. A K04 is not something i'm interested in. Hopefully I have a better understanding when I get the car back later today, however. If it is just the bearings STARTING to go, do I need to replace to the entire unit (manifold, oil lines, etc.) or can I get away with just the turbo?

Thank you, I continue to appreciate the advice from everyone! Your knowledge seriously helps.

[redline380]

I am trying to stay as frugal as possible. I've dropped $3,900 on repairs since I bought the car 3 months ago. It's been a pain in my ass. A K04 is not something i'm interested in. Hopefully I have a better understanding when I get the car back later today, however. If it is just the bearings STARTING to go, do I need to replace to the entire unit (manifold, oil lines, etc.) or can I get away with just the turbo?

Thank you, I continue to appreciate the advice from everyone! Your knowledge seriously helps.

On B7's and B8's the turbo is part of the exhaust manifold. You can break them apart, but it is really only available as one piece. If you do replace the turbo, absolutely replace the oil line.

You have some time to drive on it, but keep it in the back of your mind that it needs to be replaced. If it will be easier financially to replace it in a month or two, plan for that. The turbo on my b5 has ben making noises for a while now. But then again, I fix everything myself.

[konarider94]

I am trying to stay as frugal as possible........ If it is just the bearings STARTING to go, do I need to replace to the entire unit (manifold, oil lines, etc.) or can I get away with just the turbo?

Thank you, I continue to appreciate the advice from everyone! Your knowledge seriously helps.

Did you ignore the part where I said a rebuild kit is $30 or less?

[redline380]

Did you ignore the part where I said a rebuild kit is $30 or less?

On ebay parts? No thanks, not to mention rebuilding a turbo is a fairly delicate task. And you will of course have to have it balanced.

[konarider94]

On ebay parts? No thanks, not to mention rebuilding a turbo is a fairly delicate task. And you will of course have to have it balanced.

I mean they are magical devices. You're right I should reconsider.

[aluthman]

On ebay parts? No thanks, not to mention rebuilding a turbo is a fairly delicate task. And you will of course have to have it balanced.

I've been beating on my K0R turbo for about 11k miles so far since I rebuilt it with a $30 ebay kit. Mark the nut on the compressor wheel before removal and just put it back in the same orientation when complete. If you want to be frugal, that's the way to do it. If you want to waste a grand, buy a new turbo. The removal/install isn't hard either. Basic hand tools and a few hours is all it takes.

[Low and Behold]

I've been beating on my K0R turbo for about 11k miles so far since I rebuilt it with a $30 ebay kit. Mark the nut on the compressor wheel before removal and just put it back in the same orientation when complete. If you want to be frugal, that's the way to do it. If you want to waste a grand, buy a new turbo. The removal/install isn't hard either. Basic hand tools and a few hours is all it takes.

GAH. Took me an entire day, though i did have to improvise a few times. And was drinking.

[aluthman]

GAH. Took me an entire day, though i did have to improvise a few times. And was drinking.

I suppose it is heavily dependent on how the exhaust hardware cooperates.

[brunner1107]

I just received the car back from another autoshop L & M Foreign Cars in Brooklyn. The owner inspected the car, drove it, etc. and said that the bearing was probably slightly damaged by the other shop when they did the carbon cleaning. He also said I have nothing to worry about! So one place said $2200 and the other told me the car is fine and to have a nice day! Wtf?! L & M is very reputable and has been around for 50 years, plus they aren't trying to get my money so I tend to believe them but my head is spinning!



Konarider94, I did see that, but as redline380 alluded, I'm wary of eBay parts. If anything does go in the future that's definitely an option I'm willing to look in to.

[keaton85]

Personally, I would run it as is, look for a good used turbo in the mean time. Even rebuild the used turbo if so desired. Swap it out on the weekend when you get a chance.

$3,900 for TB, HPFP follower and "injector service"? sounds pretty high to me and why did they "clean" the IC system?

[FraggyA4]

I mean they are magical devices. You're right I should reconsider.

They are super magical, it gobbles unicorns and shit's rainbows to get power.

if you don't want to opt for the ebay kit then get one from Midwestturbo (http://www.midwestturboconnection.com/category-s/1514.htm?Click=288&gclid=Cj0KEQjwmpW6BRCf5sXp59_U_ssBEiQAGCV9GnOCizBq C4lVwo3hfS1CEsidUyyb8R4Ef9VJMgvZYQwaAkOY8P8HAQ) and have them balance it.

[Sanjman]

I've put 40K on a turbo that whistles like a bitch. Do what others have told you find a used one while you drive it. Replace it when you're ready, rebuild your old one put back in and resell your new one or keep as a backup. I'm assuming you're on this forum because you either want to take care of the car yourself or like to have technical knowledge of your car.


Fyi, both mechanics could be wrong or not really looking. It could just be a small boost leak creating a whistle.

/endthread.

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[vce1232000]

Or send out your oem turbo and get re-[wrench]at http://timsturbos.com/ . They have amazing turn around time of 24 hrs after receiving it. It comes with a warranty of 12 months or 12k miles. Ive used them several times and no issue's. They did my KO4 when no one else could re-[wrench] it. he even clipped the fins for faster spool up. His typical price is 375.00 with shipping. He located in VA. so shipping was very reasonable. You can send it to him complete with exhaust manifold. This way it ready to be bolted back on completely clocked or just send the cartridge to save on shipping costs but you have to clock it on the manifold


There is a shop I deal with here in NJ locally that will do all the labor and send out turbo to them also. Its the same company they use when they needs turbo's re[wrench]. http://www.driveautoworks.com/ the Clifton NJ location is who I use

[vvenom800tt]

I am trying to stay as frugal as possible. I've dropped $3,900 on repairs since I bought the car 3 months ago. It's been a pain in my ass. A K04 is not something i'm interested in. Hopefully I have a better understanding when I get the car back later today, however. If it is just the bearings STARTING to go, do I need to replace to the entire unit (manifold, oil lines, etc.) or can I get away with just the turbo?

Thank you, I continue to appreciate the advice from everyone! Your knowledge seriously helps.

Sounds like you need to man up and learn how to use a wrench. I havent spent $0.01 in a shop, and you'll appreciate your car much more as well when you fix stuff yourself.

[brunner1107]

Thanks Vce1232000 those seem like great options. I appreciate everyone's help with this.

[martin0079]

Or send out your oem turbo and get re-[wrench]at http://timsturbos.com/ . They have amazing turn around time of 24 hrs after receiving it. It comes with a warranty of 12 months or 12k miles. Ive used them several times and no issue's. They did my KO4 when no one else could re-[wrench] it. he even clipped the fins for faster spool up. His typical price is 375.00 with shipping. He located in VA. so shipping was very reasonable. You can send it to him complete with exhaust manifold. This way it ready to be bolted back on completely clocked or just send the cartridge to save on shipping costs but you have to clock it on the manifold


There is a shop I deal with here in NJ locally that will do all the labor and send out turbo to them also. Its the same company they use when they needs turbo's re[wrench]. http://www.driveautoworks.com/ the Clifton NJ location is who I use

Not sure if serious? Clipping the exhaust wheel will delay spool and increase top end not the other way around.

From Garrett

Clipped Turbine Wheel
When an angle is machined on the turbine wheel exducer (outlet side), the wheel is said to be "clipped". Clipping causes a minor increase in the wheel's flow capability; however, it dramatically lowers the turbo efficiency. This reduction in efficiency causes the turbo to come up on boost at a later engine speed (ex. increased turbo lag).

[brunner1107]

Man up? I'm not about to replace a turbo on a car that I'm only beginning to educate myself with while parked on the streets of NYC. This isn't a p80 valve. Thanks for your positive contribution.

[audinutt]

Gpop shop by a chra and do that.

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[vvenom800tt]

Man up? I'm not about to replace a turbo on a car that I'm only beginning to educate myself with while parked on the streets of NYC. This isn't a p80 valve. Thanks for your positive contribution.

Youre the one bitching about being frugal. So learn how to use a wrench and all your problems will be solved. No more shop fees

[brunner1107]

I can use a wrench just fine. I'm exploring my options and educating myself through asking experienced owners of the 2.0tfsi their opinion on the matter. Clearly you have tuned your a4 up quite a bit and work in a shop. I would have hoped for more constructive input like the men who posted since you felt the need to comment for some reason.

[vvenom800tt]

I can use a wrench just fine. I'm exploring my options and educating myself through asking experienced owners of the 2.0tfsi their opinion on the matter. Clearly you have tuned your a4 up quite a bit and work in a shop. I would have hoped for more constructive input like the men who posted since you felt the need to comment for some reason.

The use that wrench to unbolt your turbo from your car and replace it with a cheap one from the classifieds

They have all given you good advice. Whether you choose to heed it is entirely up to you.

[Sanjman]

Sounds like vvenom wants to help you out by rebuilding your turbo for you. [Thumbsup][thumbsup] :)

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[allstock]

If it's a quick fix you're needing then buy the used turbo. If it isn't already, it will eventually go bad as well. If you can afford it, get a new non borgwarner for less than a 900. If you don't have a garage and tools that's gonna be tough.

[vce1232000]

Not sure if serious? Clipping the exhaust wheel will delay spool and increase top end not the other way around.

From Garrett

Clipped Turbine Wheel
When an angle is machined on the turbine wheel exducer (outlet side), the wheel is said to be "clipped". Clipping causes a minor increase in the wheel's flow capability; however, it dramatically lowers the turbo efficiency. This reduction in efficiency causes the turbo to come up on boost at a later engine speed (ex. increased turbo lag).
This all depends on how many degree's the blades are clipped. Mine is a very mild 10 degree's. I had noticed quicker spool up time in the mid range applications. I was told this by several reputable turbo [race] re-[wrench]ers. I had no issue's with this modification to my unit. But this is from my own experience and opinion. Other mite find it different.

[vvenom800tt]

Sounds like vvenom wants to help you out by rebuilding your turbo for you. [Thumbsup][thumbsup] :)

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I dont help people who couldnt be bothered to help themselves

[drmonkey]

Man up? I'm not about to replace a turbo on a car that I'm only beginning to educate myself with while parked on the streets of NYC. This isn't a p80 valve. Thanks for your positive contribution.


Youre the one bitching about being frugal. So learn how to use a wrench and all your problems will be solved. No more shop fees

No offense, but I think you missed this part of his post. You can't really work on your car parked on the side of the street, I know I wouldn't. Not everyone has access to a garage.

[redline380]

No offense, but I think you missed this part of his post. You can't really work on your car parked on the side of the street, I know I wouldn't. Not everyone has access to a garage.

Solid excuses for not working on your own car. Not really applicable when other people swap out transmissions in parking lots, though

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/201359-The-2-8-B5-Transmission-Swap-DIY

[vce1232000]

If you have permission from the parking lot owner thats [up]. Most places around will not allow it unless your really [cool] with the owner/manager. There is no place on NYC streets to work on car legally. You will get ticketed and vehicle get impounded. I myself live in a town house development that the association does not allow [wrench]on car period. Lucky for me a few friends own shops I can [wrench]at. Sometimes I [wrench] my own vehicles. Sometimes I dont. It all depends on how I feel and if I have the time and how my $$$$ situation is[:(]

[drmonkey]

Solid excuses for not working on your own car. Not really applicable when other people swap out transmissions in parking lots, though

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/201359-The-2-8-B5-Transmission-Swap-DIY

I guess when you're in dire need then you have to do what you have to do. My buddy did transmission work in the middle of his old apartment parking lot. But on the side of a street you have people flying past you, you also are going to be parallel parked and not backed into a parking space. That makes things much more difficult.

[redline380]

The fact is you have three choices when owning an Audi out of warranty-

1. Fix everything yourself. You will need everything to accommodate this such as tools, work space, and most importantly skillz.

2. Get a friend to do it for free or cheap.

3. Pay someone else to fix it. It is going to cost a lot.

Those are your choices. 1 and 3 cost alot, and you knew this before you bought your car, so there is no bitching about it. 2 is a good option, but eventually that friend will get tired of your shit.

So you have two real options. Pick one and be happy with it. I chose #1, but that isnt for everyone. If you are a #2 guy, learn to live with it. Switching to #1 is an excellent decision to make and highly encouraged.

[vvenom800tt]

No offense, but I think you missed this part of his post. You can't really work on your car parked on the side of the street, I know I wouldn't. Not everyone has access to a garage.

Ive worked on my car plenty in parking lots and on the side of the road. Walmart wouldnt give two shits im sure if you did it way in the back.


If not then get some friends and ask to do it their place. If you dont have friends then resort to option one

[drmonkey]

The fact is you have three choices when owning an Audi out of warranty-

1. Fix everything yourself. You will need everything to accommodate this such as tools, work space, and most importantly skillz.

2. Get a friend to do it for free or cheap.

3. Pay someone else to fix it. It is going to cost a lot.

Those are your choices. 1 and 3 cost alot, and you knew this before you bought your car, so there is no bitching about it. 2 is a good option, but eventually that friend will get tired of your shit.

So you have two real options. Pick one and be happy with it. I chose #1, but that isnt for everyone. If you are a #2 guy, learn to live with it. Switching to #1 is an excellent decision to make and highly encouraged.

I'm in the #1 boat as well. I've made sure I have access to a garage and as I go, I buy the tools I need. My garage has now become the shop for a few of my friends.

[Sanjman]

Btw you can do a,simple thing yourself, pull your intake hose from the turbo and see if there is shaft play aka it wiggles or feels loose. That's how you'll know it is getting bad. Edit: whoops forgot the exhaust manifold with the turbo is one piece

I don't blame him not wanting to work on his car without a garage especially in NYC. Guess he will have to take the public transit until then. But there's no such thing as being frugal for a car that will not accept frugal fixes. Those ebay turbos are crap from what I hear. Only borg Warner is the way to go. Used. I bought one for 125 including shipping and it came with an updated revision DV... (WINNING!).

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[brunner1107]

You can't do this on the street in NYC. I don't give a shit about what anyone says. It's a fact. You have to switch sides of the street everyday for cleaning. Parking lots are gated or underground with security. There are no walmarts. I have all the tools etc but no one in their right mind would do this parallel parked here.

I've been driving the car around like an old lady today and it seems OK. I'm gonna try to get it upstate to my brothers and take it out over the long weekend. I've been reading up around audizine and checking out the options you all mentioned. I'm leaning towards sending it out to get fixed and getting some new lines etc, rather than buying another turbo. I'm still a little wary of the diy kits without balancing.

Anyone have some good diys for turbo removal/ install? I found the stasis engineering link which it great but supplemental material doesn't hurt.

And again thank you to everyone.

[i3oricua]

Welcome to the real Audizine. This is why I only occasionally browse the site, people stop being helpful after a while.

Anyways....to be honest I don't think you have anything to worry about with the turbo. Worst case, it blows and you have to buy a new/used one anyways. The chances of it blowing are 50/50, but I honestly don't feel like you have anything to be worried about. If you are really concerned then I would shop for a new or used turbo and then take it to a shop to have it replaced since you can't work on it on your own. This should save you some money since really your majority cost comes from labor. If you have somewhere you can rent a shop or stall then I would get a rebuild kit and rent the spot for a day and rebuild it yourself.

[redline380]

You can't do this on the street in NYC. I don't give a shit about what anyone says. It's a fact.

So here's your solution.

You're going to need to move out of the city. Maybe Staten Island or something like that. Acquire a home with a a garage, preferably a two stall. Because you own an Audi and you will be wrenching on it yourself, you'll need another car to use while the Audi is down. This is THE solution.

Okay, so I realize that isn't practical, but it is certainly what I would do [:D] Nothing is going to keep me from the one activity that is keeping me sane. Having these types of abilities and possibilities may seem very far off to someone who lives in Brooklyn, but if you make the necessary lifestyle changes, it can be highly rewarding. I grew up in small town Minnesota. After college, I moved to the big city AKA St. Paul to go to law school. I had the requirements in a place that I listed above, I needed a garage. It took some doing to find something cheap enough and took a while to find roommates, but I got it done and I was able to continue on with my wrenching lifestyle throughout law school. With that said, I got tired of the city after 2 years and moved back to bum fuck nowhere. Now, I get to buy junk cars and part them out and get rid of them with means unavailable to city dwellers.



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