6MT clutch and flywheel combos and reviews

[sonic32]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160524/5b1d9c35479224ce9e7afdd014074df5.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160524/0a8e24322ded2d1ea0d40b71889e7059.jpg

After not too many reviews and info on specific set ups I decided to pair the ECS tuning single mass flywheel with the JHM stage IV clutch ceramic and Kevlar. I asked a lot of mechanics/techs with what material I should go for daily use and occasional spirited driving and few launches and apparently there wasn't anything in between. The ceramic wears faster than the full faced organic clutches but I've been struggling with clutch slippage between gears for too long and I just want the car to go when I switch gears not hang under load and burn the clutch.
I know some people here went with ECS kit that includes south bend stage 2 but I was told to stay away from south bend. I picked the ECS flywheel because of the Chromoly material used which I heard is very good at withstanding heat and abuse.
Any opinions/reviews/critiques are very welcomed because the parts haven't been shipped yet so I'd still have time to switch the set up. Also if there's anything else I might need or not need please let me know.
Thank you!


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[infinkc]

I did a review previously on my JHM stage 4 and JHM fly, i love it, have close to 15K on it now and no issues. I would have went with the JHM Flywheel also, not sure why you chose the ECS one. Having a replaceable friction surface is a huge +.

[sonic32]

I did a review previously on my JHM stage 4 and JHM fly, i love it, have close to 15K on it now and no issues. I would have went with the JHM Flywheel also, not sure why you chose the ECS one. Having a replaceable friction surface is a huge +.

Yes i remember your review, due to it and another member I chose the stage IV clutch over all the other options but I highly doubt the friction surface of the flywheel will ever need replacement on your set up or mine. Worst case can always send it out and have it machined.
Did you happen to do a stainless steel clutch line as well?


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[MrFunk]

Thanks for sharing.
I'm still on OEM and am not getting any slipping (yet). I am probably going to do the SS clutch line this summer and have been doing research on replacement clutches just to have an idea so that if I even need one I don't have to start the research from scratch.

[Hofahome]

Sounds like a good setup. I think my jhm clutch kit came with a new fork fyi. Oh and I think ceramic wears OTHER surfaces down more quickly, not itself. Run it and report back

[sonic32]

Will definitely report back and update this thread as I go. 750 miles break in period and then the abuse gonna start haha first thing I do when I reach 750 is launch the car


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[Evan2]

SS Line FTW. Night and day

[sonic32]

SS Line FTW. Night and day

Already have it, I was hoping it would make a difference with stock set up but it didn't. I think my clutch was already too toasted when I put the line in.


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[silverf0x]

I'm in the same boat, looking to enhance my drag time (stage 2+ currently makes gear 1 and 2 slip), Im also concerned if changing the clutch/fly could get me a TD1?

[sonic32]

I'm in the same boat, looking to enhance my drag time (stage 2+ currently makes gear 1 and 2 slip), Im also concerned if changing the clutch/fly could get me a TD1?

I don't see how. Labor charges are like $1000 to tear the tranny down and it's not covered under warranty unless it's something they can determine as OEM defect. If you complain about anything in the trans they automatically blame the clutch to extort you of money. They'll never dig in there and if they do they won't TD1 they will refuse to cover any part that might've malfunctioned due to the upgraded clutch


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[S4_V6T]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160524/5b1d9c35479224ce9e7afdd014074df5.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160524/0a8e24322ded2d1ea0d40b71889e7059.jpg

After not too many reviews and info on specific set ups I decided to pair the ECS tuning single mass flywheel with the JHM stage IV clutch ceramic and Kevlar. I asked a lot of mechanics/techs with what material I should go for daily use and occasional spirited driving and few launches and apparently there wasn't anything in between. The ceramic wears faster than the full faced organic clutches but I've been struggling with clutch slippage between gears for too long and I just want the car to go when I switch gears not hang under load and burn the clutch.
I know some people here went with ECS kit that includes south bend stage 2 but I was told to stay away from south bend. I picked the ECS flywheel because of the Chromoly material used which I heard is very good at withstanding heat and abuse.
Any opinions/reviews/critiques are very welcomed because the parts haven't been shipped yet so I'd still have time to switch the set up. Also if there's anything else I might need or not need please let me know.
Thank you!


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Not sure if you have seen my recent post but my stage 3 clutch was toast after 10,000 miles! All friction material was worn down and it was bound to the LWFW.

[nbooks]

so ive been trying to get someone to chime in on this, so excuse me if this is slightly off topic, but why does no one eem to use the sachs uprated clutch? I ran their "sachs power" uprated clutch on one of my old saabs and it was absolutely wonderful. its also significantly less expensive than the other options out there....

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

I did a review previously on my JHM stage 4 and JHM fly, i love it, have close to 15K on it now and no issues. I would have went with the JHM Flywheel also, not sure why you chose the ECS one. Having a replaceable friction surface is a huge +.

Our flywheel has a hardened heat treated friction surface which will make it far less likely to wear like a traditional surface. This also eliminates the possibility of mounting hardware ever coming loose.

Jason

[sonic32]

Not sure if you have seen my recent post but my stage 3 clutch was toast after 10,000 miles! All friction material was worn down and it was bound to the LWFW.

No I haven't. Stage 3 JHM and their flywheel?


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[S4_V6T]

No I haven't. Stage 3 JHM and their flywheel?


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Yes

[AKPS4]

So any more info on the failure? Tracked car often? Daily driving? Abuse from delayer, friend, or other? Did you take it apart to see if there was an installation issue that caused failure?

[Thurston]

so ive been trying to get someone to chime in on this, so excuse me if this is slightly off topic, but why does no one eem to use the sachs uprated clutch? I ran their "sachs power" uprated clutch on one of my old saabs and it was absolutely wonderful. its also significantly less expensive than the other options out there....

yeah i'd like to know more about it as well.

[sonic32]

Hey guys so I got the clutch and flywheel in. Replaced everything while there, clutch fork, slave, tranny fluid, stage IV jhm ceramic/Kevlar, ECS LW SMFW, brake fluid, clutch release lever, even the pin on the clutch fork, all bolts are new, new pilot bearing and o ring. I have almost 300 miles on the set up and it's been great till now. Clutch feels like stock, if I didn't see the old clutch out myself and the mechanic put in the new one I wouldnt believe he changed it. There is slight flywheel chatter but not always, which is weird and annoying but I'll live with it. Problem is that now I'm getting slight slippage under load in higher gears. Could it be the Kevlar pucks that they're not yet worn down evenly? Since it's Kevlar 8 puck on one side and full face ceramic on the other side. As for example I got on it in 3rd or 4th around 3200 rpms and the rpms went up very quickly to like 4500 then dropped back down and it grabbed. If I start in lower gears it's all good. Jhm gives break in period of 750 miles for the clutch. Could this be a break in anomaly?


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[AKPS4]

Your supposed to drive very easy for the Breakin. Any chance you have it too much power? I just had a southbend endurance stage 2 installed. Some slight chatter here and there too. Not completely happy after all the money I spent ( had to pay labor twice because initial issue with the clutch). Southbend offered no help and is very bad and getting back with any useful info. Certainly recommend avoiding southbend for sure. Anyways time will tell and hope that this clutch eventually feels worth it. But I have a feeling I'll be swapping it with something else in a couple years or less.

[jimrobbington]

Hey guys so I got the clutch and flywheel in. Replaced everything while there, clutch fork, slave, tranny fluid, stage IV jhm ceramic/Kevlar, ECS LW SMFW, brake fluid, clutch release lever, even the pin on the clutch fork, all bolts are new, new pilot bearing and o ring. I have almost 300 miles on the set up and it's been great till now. Clutch feels like stock, if I didn't see the old clutch out myself and the mechanic put in the new one I wouldnt believe he changed it. There is slight flywheel chatter but not always, which is weird and annoying but I'll live with it. Problem is that now I'm getting slight slippage under load in higher gears. Could it be the Kevlar pucks that they're not yet worn down evenly? Since it's Kevlar 8 puck on one side and full face ceramic on the other side. As for example I got on it in 3rd or 4th around 3200 rpms and the rpms went up very quickly to like 4500 then dropped back down and it grabbed. If I start in lower gears it's all good. Jhm gives break in period of 750 miles for the clutch. Could this be a break in anomaly?


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I would venture to guess you are giving it too much torque, too early in the break in process?

[jimrobbington]

Your supposed to drive very easy for the Breakin. Any chance you have it too much power? I just had a southbend endurance stage 2 installed. Some slight chatter here and there too. Not completely happy after all the money I spent ( had to pay labor twice because initial issue with the clutch). Southbend offered no help and is very bad and getting back with any useful info. Certainly recommend avoiding southbend for sure. Anyways time will tell and hope that this clutch eventually feels worth it. But I have a feeling I'll be swapping it with something else in a couple years or less.
That is very disheartening. So many terrible experiences with this chassis' clutch system. Only thing I dislike about this car.

[sonic32]

I would venture to guess you are giving it too much torque, too early in the break in process?

That's what I'm thinking. I'm gonna switch to valet mode and get on it and see if it's the extra torque that does it or the pressure plate clutch combo where the pressure plate not strong enough or clutch too weak


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[DGVR6]

Dude take it easy.. You're only 300 miles in the break in, id probably say you're 200 city miles in. Take it lightly or Ull slip it. A little slip isn't too bad but don't over do it

[Hofahome]

Treat your clutch like a virgin. ease her into it, don't just ram it in on the third go.

[rtl5009]

No full throttle breaking clutches in. That's when they get too much load and bad things happen.

[rtl5009]

Why the fuck are people replacing the fork?

[sonic32]

Why the fuck are people replacing the fork?

Because some people had trouble starting the car due to the clutch fork. They had to sink the pedal into the floor to start it. I didn't wanna take any chances with it.

I have a creaking noise from the clutch pedal
https://vimeo.com/170746716


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[jsh139]

That is very disheartening. So many terrible experiences with this chassis' clutch system. Only thing I dislike about this car.

+1 I'm starting to think I'll just go OEM when the time comes. Or, maybe that Sachs modified OEM.

[rtl5009]

Dood. That creaking noise is perfectly normal. It's a hydraulic system, will will make some noise doing movement.

Start issues sound like the slave plumber maybe not being squared up in the form divot. Forks don't go bad, it's a hunk of metal the pivots the throw out to the pressure plate release forks via the slave plunger.

[S4_V6T]

Dood. That creaking noise is perfectly normal. It's a hydraulic system, will will make some noise doing movement.

Start issues sound like the slave plumber maybe not being squared up in the form divot. Forks don't go bad, it's a hunk of metal the pivots the throw out to the pressure plate release forks via the slave plunger.


I have had the fork replaced twice now and on my 3rd one. All due to the fork being bent. Really bad design. Garage showed me the damage on each occasion and it was clearly in bad shape.

[Lensch09]

I have the new JHM R Series 3R Clutch with JHM lightweight flywheel, prototype slave line, solid JHM linkage, JHM short-throw, and 034 Tranny mount.

Not sure any of this new JHM stuff is available on their website, yet. But, I believe you can call them directly and get it. I'm almost positive I got the first "production" stuff.

Only about 300 miles on the system so far. With the decreased weight and increase in rigidity, it's makes a bit more noise/vibration than the stock setup. However, if this is something a consumer is really concerned with, they shouldn't be trying to run upwards of 500 hp.

I'll provide more feedback when I get it broken in. Also currently running a dual pulley setup. Thing is gonna be DAMN fun once I finally get to bang around on it.

-Dan

[rtl5009]

I have had the fork replaced twice now and on my 3rd one. All due to the fork being bent. Really bad design. Garage showed me the damage on each occasion and it was clearly in bad shape.

I just replaced my clutch, myself. The fork was just like every other fork I have encountered. What's designed bad about it?

[AKPS4]

I have the new JHM R Series 3R Clutch with JHM lightweight flywheel, prototype slave line, solid JHM linkage, JHM short-throw, and 034 Tranny mount.

Not sure any of this new JHM stuff is available on their website, yet. But, I believe you can call them directly and get it. I'm almost positive I got the first "production" stuff.

Only about 300 miles on the system so far. With the decreased weight and increase in rigidity, it's makes a bit more noise/vibration than the stock setup. However, if this is something a consumer is really concerned with, they shouldn't be trying to run upwards of 500 hp.

I'll provide more feedback when I get it broken in. Also currently running a dual pulley setup. Thing is gonna be DAMN fun once I finally get to bang around on it.

-Dan

I'm very interested to see how your experience develops with this. I spoke to JHM about the same setup as my next option. Didn't know they also offered the linkage and slave lines though. I know that you will not see 70-80k miles with the 3R clutch but it's supposed to hold on good for everything before it starts going out.

[sonic32]

What's the difference between the jhm 3R and the stage IV I got?

Currently put the car in valet mode and I'm driving it like that for the next 500-600 miles. Already have 370 miles but a big portion of them aren't city so I'm gonna try to squeeze as much traffic and city miles up to 1000 and then I'm gonna start abusing it. If it doesn't hold then I give up on this platform.


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[Lensch09]

I'm very interested to see how your experience develops with this. I spoke to JHM about the same setup as my next option. Didn't know they also offered the linkage and slave lines though. I know that you will not see 70-80k miles with the 3R clutch but it's supposed to hold on good for everything before it starts going out.

They publicly offer the linkage. I'm one of the guineas pig with the slave line upgrade. JHM installed a slave line upgrade on my car and on the shop S5. To my knowledge, their version of the slave line is not yet available (on or off the website). I

JHM is also planning on cutting the stock line apart to REALLY show/inform of what's on the inside of the "frequency modulator valve" (with pictures).

Also, regarding the break-in, in my opinion, it really doesn't matter what you do with the clutch once it's fully engaged. Upon partial engagement, it's important not to have high load levels (meaning no fast shifts, no launches, etc.). Once the friction surfaces are fulled engaged, it shouldn't really matter what you do with it (the clutch). It's not like your pressure plate is going to suddenly start doing it's job better once it has 500-1000 miles on it. Never understood why people can't wrap their heads around this.

-Dan

[rtl5009]

Also, regarding the break-in, in my opinion, it really doesn't matter what you do with the clutch once it's fully engaged. Upon partial engagement, it's important not to have high load levels (meaning no fast shifts, no launches, etc.). Once the friction surfaces are fulled engaged, it shouldn't really matter what you do with it (the clutch). It's not like your pressure plate is going to suddenly start doing it's job better once it has 500-1000 miles on it. Never understood why people can't wrap their heads around this.

-Dan

This is totally false. Why do clutches slip under load then?

[DGVR6]

It's not the pressure plate, it's friction material transfer ;).
If there's not enough sticky stuff on the pp or flywheel it's going to slip, then overheat.

Slipping it helps with transfer, but the whole point is trying not to overheat the clutch (especially Kevlar) which excessive slipping will do. Once you do that it changes the properties of it and bye bye Kevlar, hello glaze.

[eurotic]

Also, regarding the break-in, in my opinion, it really doesn't matter what you do with the clutch once it's fully engaged. Upon partial engagement, it's important not to have high load levels (meaning no fast shifts, no launches, etc.). Once the friction surfaces are fulled engaged, it shouldn't really matter what you do with it (the clutch). It's not like your pressure plate is going to suddenly start doing it's job better once it has 500-1000 miles on it. Never understood why people can't wrap their heads around this.

-Dan


This is totally false. Why do clutches slip under load then?


It's not the pressure plate, it's friction material transfer ;).
If there's not enough sticky stuff on the pp or flywheel it's going to slip, then overheat.

Slipping it helps with transfer, but the whole point is trying not to overheat the clutch (especially Kevlar) which excessive slipping will do. Once you do that it changes the properties of it and bye bye Kevlar, hello glaze.

Yeah I think I agree with rtl5009 and DGVR6.

My understanding is that the break-in period is doing two things:
1) It is making a transfer layer similar to bedding in brakes that will also aid in the adhesion qualities of the materials.
2) It is wearing the surfaces of the clutch material with the pressure plate together so the they physically match better and therefore they theoretically will have greater contact area. I admit that there shouldn't be much wear needed and the differences in the surface contact is probably very very very small...and maybe it's negligible.
3) It is heat cycling the materials which maybe has a curing effect on the clutch materials.

This is why they say the break-in has to be city driving. They want you to be making many low power shifts so that there is a little bit of slip to get the surfaces wearing together without getting too hot (which is different than bedding brakes where you need them to get nice a toasty).


Shawn

[sonic32]

I'm at almost 500 miles of mixed driving. Even on the highway I kept dropping gears for the past 200 miles and going back up whenever I had a chance. I switched back to pump map and I leaned it in 4th, 5th, 6th from low rpms just to see if it will slip again and it hasn't. It seems that it was either the Kevlar got really hot that day from being in bumper to bumper traffic or it wasn't yet worn evenly and it cause the weird slight slippage. It seems strong now. I still have the squeaky cricketing noise when depressing the pedal. I'll take it easy again for the next 200 miles


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[S4_V6T]

I just replaced my clutch, myself. The fork was just like every other fork I have encountered. What's designed bad about it?

Well, the fact that 2 have bent badly is enough for me to deduce that it is a bad design! Maybe I am just unlucky? Maybe the ones I purchased were made of Cesium?
I really do not know.. But it is clear that if they had made the fork more reinforced, it would have most likely not bent in the 1st place.
Thanks.