Suing a mechanic.

[KJack]

Do I have a case? Several months ago I took my B7 to a local import repair shop to get the timing belt replaced. When I got the car back two days later the transmission and air conditioning were messed up. The shop owner said that the transmission line got accidentally disconnected when they removed the front bumper for the timing belt install and tranny fluid leaked out so the refilled it. It was shifting hard on the way home so I called and he said it was probably just an air bubble and I should bring it back to be topped off. He said he would recharge the AC as well. I asked him what kind of transmission fluid he used and he said Mobil GL5 gear oil (note: That is manual gear oil. My car has automatic transmission). I told him I didn't feel comfortable bringing my car back to his shop. I had my car towed to an Audi repair shop and they flushed out the gear oil and replaced it with Audi ATF. They determined that the AC condenser and pressure sensor were broken by the mechanic forcing the bumper back on and the showed pics as well as the broken parts. It cost a total of $2300 to undo the damage done by the first shop. I went back to the first shop seeking compensation and he refuses to pay a cent. He said he would have fixed it for free and that I shouldn't have taken it to another shop. We have a small claims court date in a couple months and I'm wondering if the judge will agree that I should have let him try to fix it before going elsewhere. There was just no way I could let that guy get his hands on my car again though considering how much he messed up. Thoughts?

[seanf86]

The judge is probably going to say that you should have given him a chance to make it right first, however if he butchered that much stuff I could see how you didn't want him getting your car back.

[Forge04]

I think you have a case. But I'm not in a legal field in any way. It's just my $0.02.

[konarider94]

If he put gear oil in an automatic I wouldn't trust him to do even the most basic job like add gasoline or change a wiper blade. That should be enough to discredit him as a mechanic. I'd say give it a shot. Cant say worst case but maybe at least you'll split the bill with him in court. Is he ASE certified?

I really have no idea though, you should talk to a lawyer. You can ask them if its worth pursuing without getting charged.

[Fdny5772]

Would be small claims as its less than 5k. But you can pursue it, work wasn't done according to standards set forth and agreed upon. Speak to an attorney to be certain.

[Okedokey]

You definitely have a case. He demonstrated incompetence and damaged your car. In no way would a 'reasonable' person go back to him. Clear case imo.

[Brillo]

They demonstrated gross incompetence. Can't see how anyone could expect you to take it back to them. Additionally, I believe that if it were a manual tranny they should have used GL-4.

[Theiceman]

for such a small amount I am not sure an attorney would even waste his time but you never know. I think a small claims court might saw it off down the middle. I guess your discussions with the shop are over if you are already going to court. if you win the judgment in small claims but don't get full restitution can you still sue ?

[demonmk2]

in most cases you have to give them the chance to fix the wrong ( like others have said )
you may have a case but in the long run may not be worth it.

[KJack]

for such a small amount I am not sure an attorney would even waste his time but you never know. I think a small claims court might saw it off down the middle. I guess your discussions with the shop are over if you are already going to court. if you win the judgment in small claims but don't get full restitution can you still sue ?

You're right, it's small claims so lawyers aren't typically involved. Best case scenario I'm thinking I might be awarded 50% since I didn't give him the opportunity to try to fix it. His shop is ASE certified but I think he hires cheap inexperienced mechanics. There was no way on earth I could bring my car back there though.

[JDillon15]

I feel that it would be fair to at least receive reimbursement for the broken parts. You may eat the labor cost since you didn't bring it back to the same shop. Probably depends on the judge, but that seems to be the most fair IMO (not that I have any legal experience).

[onedumslack]

I agree with okedokey. Stress those points a lot. You would have taken it back to him to make it right but the mechanic was using wrong fluids(the most basic of the tasks is to select the proper fluid) so you felt a gross incompetence and couldn't afford to lose more.

[Forge04]

I agree with okedokey. Stress those points a lot. You would have taken it back to him to make it right but the mechanic was using wrong fluids(the most basic of the tasks is to select the proper fluid) so you felt a gross incompetence and couldn't afford to lose more.

I second this. You're right. There's no way you could take it back to them. It's equal to a doctor giving a human patient dolphin blood. It's a basic mechanical principle.

[B72011]

Take a picture of what both fluids look like and put those pictures on a piece paper. Explain to the judge that the mechanic was grossly incompetent and that possible permanant damage was done to the transmission with his incompetence.
I dont think you have to take a car back to the original mechanic when that level of incompetence is reached. An auto shop is supposed to excercise due car when working on your car---when its obvious that they dont know what they are doing--you dont have to take it back to them.
The judge will find in your favor--this is an open and shut case. Just bring as much proof as possible. You will get between 75-100% of your money back I think.

Keep us posted on the outcome.

[Operator]

It's equal to a doctor giving a human patient dolphin blood. It's a basic mechanical principle.

WHUT?!?

[Operator]

Documentation, research, and facts, you need to have all your ducks in a row before hand. And echoing what others have alluded to, you need to show the original mech, as not trust worthy to work on your car a second time. Make sure you can be as "matter of fact" as possible. And think of multiple rebuttals to anything the mech may come up with. Preparation is key, in swaying the Judge's opinion.

[torrque]

This is part of the problem with this country, and why medical system is grossly overcharging, due to liability insurance. You people suing each other left right and centre... You are just forking cash in lawyers hands...

I would have taken it back to him, fix what you can fix, heal your wounds, and never go back there again... Stop suing people. And stop buying Audi's if you cannot afford to fix them in the Dealership, or don't know how.

[JDillon15]

This is part of the problem with this country, and why medical system is grossly overcharging, due to liability insurance. You people suing each other left right and centre... You are just forking cash in lawyers hands...

I would have taken it back to him, fix what you can fix, heal your wounds, and never go back there again... Stop suing people. And stop buying Audi's if you cannot afford to fix them in the Dealership, or don't know how.

I highly doubt that liability insurance is the reason medical costs are so high. What about the reimbursement rates of major players who only agree to pay 25 cents on the dollar? Yeah legal costs and insurance is high, but not the leading factor that determines those prices.

And if someone shows me that they are incapable of repairing my vehicle to my standard, I wouldn't necessary return there either. It was a tough spot for OP to be in - I agree he should have spoken to the shop prior to going to another and fronting the expense of the repairs.

As to the "dealer or bust", there are plenty of reputable indy shops that are very knowledgeable and passionate about cars - unfortunately there are a lot of bad ones as well.

In the end, if OP wants to sue the shop, it's his own prerogative. Thank goodness we live in a country where we are able to at least try to right those wrongs.

Of course, these are just my opinions.

[DannyDeez]

Sucks OP. I'm curious to hear the outcome of the small claims case.

[KJack]

You people suing each other left right and centre... You are just forking cash in lawyers hands...

I would have taken it back to him, fix what you can fix,.

It's small claims, no lawyers involved. There's no way I would let that guy touch my car again. He had the chance make things right and he refused. I even offered to split the bill in half . I didn't want to go to court but his lack of cooperation left me no other option.

[martin0079]

This is part of the problem with this country, and why medical system is grossly overcharging, due to liability insurance. You people suing each other left right and centre... You are just forking cash in lawyers hands...

I would have taken it back to him, fix what you can fix, heal your wounds, and never go back there again... Stop suing people. And stop buying Audi's if you cannot afford to fix them in the Dealership, or don't know how.

LOL no need to hold anyone accountable for their actions sounds like a joke. You sound like quite the elitist self-aggrandizer.

While I will agree there are plenty of accounts of lawsuits awarded that are not justified, take the sandy hook people suing the gun maker lol they are just trying to turn the deaths of their family members into cash which is despicable meanwhile the gun company is protected under federal law, but this case is justified the mechanic was clearly incompetent and needs to find out that there is a cost of bad business. It is just like JHM blowing up RS4 motors. There is a case building against them for that.

[mtroxel]

I'd take him to small claims, don't know if you'll win. But I also think you did the right thing in not going back to this guy. The gear oil thing is just gross negligence. A bit like putting gasoline in a diesel.

[Okedokey]

He'll win. THe outcome will be determined by how organised and thorough his explanation and evidence is.

To the OP. Get a friend to get a written quote if possible on fixing the same issues in your car. This will be used as a comparison to the stealership costs in your case.

[Brillo]

I've been to SCC several time and won. It usually costs about $100 to file and serve the summons on the defendant. I will tell you that there is no substitute for a well-prepared presentation. Some SCCs will allow an attorney to make your argument but that usually has to be stipulated ahead of time in case the defendant wants to hire one too. In this case you really don't need one based on what you've stated here. It would not hurt to consult an attorney though ahead of time (totally permissible in all jurisdictions) to help you with the law and to prepare your presentation. Be brief, reasonable, and to the point and control your emotions. You can also ask for court costs which you may get back if the judgement is in your favor.

[keaton85]

No matter if it get's ruled in your favor or not, with small claims, there is really no muscle in making the person pay...

They are ordered to pay, and if they don't, nothing happens and your back to square one. Plus, no matter what, the mechanic should have been given a chance to make it right before taking it to someone else.

Keep changing that ATF!!!!!!

[Brillo]

^^This is completely untrue in most jurisdictions. You will need to make another court filing (usually at no cost )which is very easy to do and it will eventually allow allow you access to the defendant company and/or personal bank accounts and it will be enforced by the court with that financial institution. These are state controlled functions so the procedures vary slightly by state, but you will eventually prevail (especially against a business) if the original judgement is in your favor.

[Charles.waite]

They demonstrated gross incompetence. Can't see how anyone could expect you to take it back to them. Additionally, I believe that if it were a manual tranny they should have used GL-4.

This as well. GL5 is for the rear diff, the manual trannies use GL4. So he's extra wrong.

Also, just a general comment, why would you give the mechanic a second chance given how badly he fucked the car up the first time. If the OP had and then posted this same story you guys would be saying "Why the hell did you go back!?"

OP good on you for not letting this guy touch your car again. Given how incompetent this guy is, I'm shocked his business is afloat...

[wildcat333]

Just read this entire thread at SCC [emoji848]


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

[Ringsby4]

Do I have a case? Several months ago I took my B7 to a local import repair shop to get the timing belt replaced. When I got the car back two days later the transmission and air conditioning were messed up. The shop owner said that the transmission line got accidentally disconnected when they removed the front bumper for the timing belt install and tranny fluid leaked out so the refilled it. It was shifting hard on the way home so I called and he said it was probably just an air bubble and I should bring it back to be topped off. He said he would recharge the AC as well. I asked him what kind of transmission fluid he used and he said Mobil GL5 gear oil (note: That is manual gear oil. My car has automatic transmission). I told him I didn't feel comfortable bringing my car back to his shop. I had my car towed to an Audi repair shop and they flushed out the gear oil and replaced it with Audi ATF. They determined that the AC condenser and pressure sensor were broken by the mechanic forcing the bumper back on and the showed pics as well as the broken parts. It cost a total of $2300 to undo the damage done by the first shop. I went back to the first shop seeking compensation and he refuses to pay a cent. He said he would have fixed it for free and that I shouldn't have taken it to another shop. We have a small claims court date in a couple months and I'm wondering if the judge will agree that I should have let him try to fix it before going elsewhere. There was just no way I could let that guy get his hands on my car again though considering how much he messed up. Thoughts?
Had another thought-if they were that incompetent changing the timing belt it is quite probable that they pinched the water pump O ring during the install,I would be pulling the belly pan off and looking for the tell-tale red coolant leak from the weep hole at the very bottom of the timing cover....hopefully not

[bmoreS4]

Go on you for not letting them touch your car again, hope you win and make them pay.

[Ringsby4]

Go on you for not letting them touch your car again, hope you win and make them pay.

Yay ! Gross incompetence,thats why my cars will never go to a mechanical shop....

[KJack]

Had my court date today and I lost the case. The mechanic told the judge that Mobil gear oil wouldn't harm an automatic transmission, he said "in fact that's what Audi uses". The judge asked me if I had a witness from Audi present to dispute that. I didn't. All I had was written testimony from an Audi mechanic to that effect but that was apparently inadmissible because they need an actual person in case the judge wants to ask questions. The judge then asked if I work as an auto mechanic. When I said that I didn't, he sided with the shady mechanic assuming that he knew his stuff. Oh well, lesson learned. Even if if won the case, the guy wouldn't have paid up anyway. Sucks, but I'm finally able to wash my hands of it and move on.

[vvenom800tt]

Sucks to hear. Judge sounds like an idiot to then.

Didnt even take the word of an Audi tech. Thats stupid

[Charles.waite]

Dude that's fucking stupid. I would be pissed too, but whatever. Better to just move on with your life. That mechanic is a dickhead. Though lying under oath is also illegal...

It is 100% false to say that Audi uses gear oil in automatic trannies.

[Turbo_Joe]

So now that the court case is done with, can you tell us what shop it was? I had an issue with a shop on Kansas city in the past, but they took the time to fix it and make it right.

[miA4]

I would see if you can appeal it and get documentation from Audi about what oil is supposed to be used in the transmission. I would become the biggest pain in that guys ass.

[Copen-cisco]

Too bad. Did you try to mitigate with them before court?

Fuck up his Yelp - it will make you sleep better for a night or two.

[grassrootz]

I would see if you can appeal it and get documentation from Audi about what oil is supposed to be used in the transmission. I would become the biggest pain in that guys ass.

^^^This all day. The internet can be a beast, Just be weary of defamation.

Seems the judge just didn't want to deal with it in his courthouse that day and chose the fastest way to loophole it. Even with a mechanic there from Audi I bet judge would have still wanted to toss if the mechanic didn't have specific documents etc. Depending on where you are, demographics of the area, his expectation that you have money to pay based on what you drive, etc. all play into the judges mentality.

[KJack]

Too bad. Did you try to mitigate with them before court?

Fuck up his Yelp - it will make you sleep better for a night or two.

Yeah, I tried to work with him before going to court and even offered to split the bill with him. He stopped returning phone calls and blew me off so it ended up in court. I left negative Yelp and Google reviews earlier today to give others a heads-up. He had good reviews at the time he did my work but then one bad review after another started showing up afterward, so it seems like he's messed up a lot of cars recently. I don't want to appeal because this has dragged on for months and he probably wouldn't pay anyway. I'm chalking it up as a lesson learned.

[KJack]

I would see if you can appeal it and get documentation from Audi about what oil is supposed to be used in the transmission. I would become the biggest pain in that guys ass.

I had documentation from both Audi and Mobil that specifically stated which fluids are to be used. Judge wouldn't allow it though. Needed to have the actual people there to dispute the mechanic's claims.

[Theiceman]

id be pissed but probably the right thing to just get over it ... in a few months they would never be able to prove the rock through hs front window was you :)

[KJack]

id be pissed but probably the right thing to just get over it ... in a few months they would never be able to prove the rock through hs front window was you :)

LOL! Hell no, I'm done with this entirely. Gonna pick up some good beer on the way home and relax going forward.

[Ringsby4]

LOL! Hell no, I'm done with this entirely. Gonna pick up some good beer on the way home and relax going forward.

Oh man,the unjustness of it all,I feel for you.I bet you had to hold yourself back about the gear oil in the trannie-what ! ZF's in are so finicky in what they drink....

[KJack]

So now that the court case is done with, can you tell us what shop it was? I had an issue with a shop on Kansas city in the past, but they took the time to fix it and make it right.

I sent you a PM with the details. It's an imports repair shop in Lawrence, KS.

[80sGuy]

Certain job requires the dealer and one of them is the timing belt/water pump service because there are lots of work involving removal of the front bumper and so forth, not to mention using genuine Audi parts. There are MANY steps and a plethora of different screws that needed to be removed (and reinstalled) and aligned correctly, etc...and I'll bet the grease monkeys that fucked up your car didn't even know how to put them all back together, probably 40% of your screws are in limbo along with all the other lost screws in their bucket.

The only alternative is to find a good independent 'Audi' mechanic that used to work for Audi for many years. All my work is done at the dealer during warranty and will continue to do so, including oil changes except for brakes and tire rotation which I provided genuine Audi parts to a non-German auto independent shop. Other than that, I wouldn't even think twice about letting any other so-called 'German auto' specialist working on my ride. At least this way, if a problem arises the dealer will fix it, and sometimes problems do come up but seldom. Glad you took care of it the right way at last.

[keaton85]

You must have one of those rare dealers that has a clue! I would never let a dealer work on my car over a knowledgable indy, yet I have never had a shop work on any of my vehicles.

Genuine parts huh? you do realize that most parts are reboxed parts from different manufactures? Audi just jacks the price sky high and presto, you think your getting the best of the best! When realistically, there are much cheaper alternatives with the same manufactures or better. Nothing special about these cars timing belts vs any other out in the world.

[80sGuy]

My dealer isn't perfect but they are quick to resolve issues quickly should there be any. So far, over the past 8 years they seem to get everything done right - with the exception of a few minor hiccups, which again they took care of in a jiffy. As for parts such as brakes and other 'maintenance items' I get them for the same or better price compared to other OEM suppliers. So far I am happy with the way my car operates due to the origin of parts/service - crossing my fingers, but unless some irresponsible driver on the road decide to take it away from me otherwise it looks and drives like new.

[redline380]

I wish people would take conciliation court hearings a little more serious. Showing up with stacks of paper and witnesses may make you look silly, but it will only help your case.

The judge wasn't being an idiot, he was using his discretion. That is what they are supposed to do. If I had some dude in front of me with a piece of paper versus some guy who is a mechanic by trade, I am listening to the mechanic 9/10.

[KJack]

I wish people would take conciliation court hearings a little more serious. Showing up with stacks of paper and witnesses may make you look silly, but it will only help your case.

The judge wasn't being an idiot, he was using his discretion. That is what they are supposed to do. If I had some dude in front of me with a piece of paper versus some guy who is a mechanic by trade, I am listening to the mechanic 9/10.

My mechanic is an hour away and couldn't make it. I figured his signed statement and photos would hold up in court. I also wasn't expecting the defendant to lie under oath and say that gear oil is suitable for an automatic transmission. Oh well. As I said before, it's a lesson learned and it's behind me. All I can do now is warn others not to use that particular shop.

[redline380]

My mechanic is an hour away and couldn't make it. I figured his signed statement and photos would hold up in court. I also wasn't expecting the defendant to lie under oath and say that gear oil is suitable for an automatic transmission. Oh well. As I said before, it's a lesson learned and it's behind me. All I can do now is warn others not to use that particular shop.

In the words of Nick Naylor, know what is the best thing about America? Our endless appeals system [:D]

[Gin+]

This just sucks. At least the shop owner got dragged into court for his negligence. No winners here.

[vvenom800tt]

I sent you a PM with the details. It's an imports repair shop in Lawrence, KS.

Hey man, i totally didnt see that you are in Kansas city as well.

I work for Acura on Overland Park, if you ever need help or want to meet up just shoot me PM, i have yet to meet someone from KC on here.