122K mile cam follower

[ilmonster]

I have a 2008 Audi A4 I purchased new from the dealer in Sept. of 2007, which in the 8+ years I've owned it has given me great service. It has received better than factory care in its 122K miles. Oil changes every 5-6K miles, manual gearbox fluid changed twice, timing belt and associated belts and pulley's at 110K miles, coolant change three time, etc. Not a neglected car!

After reading all the threads about cam follower failures, I decided to get a new, Audi brand follower and take mine apart to see what it looked like. I understood that Audi changed the design in 2008, so thought I might be ok. Well, I took it apart today and this is what I found:

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac187/ilmonster/IMG_1544.jpg

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac187/ilmonster/IMG_1546.jpg

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac187/ilmonster/IMG_1545.jpg

So it would appear that the 2008 model year cam followers still come apart with miles. The car runs fine with those pieces of follower floating around. Hopefully the filter has caught them! I wasn't able to take any photo's of the cam lobe as I couldn't get a clear shot of it. The fuel pump tip wasn't too worn with no follower, so I'm guessing the follower didn't grenade itself 50K miles ago. I am going to give my dealer a call Monday and also Audi USA a shout. I know they only gave the 120K mile extended warranty through 2007 models, but this strikes me a still unacceptable - especially since most servicings were done at the Audi dealer from whom I purchased the car new. How they respond will certainly play into whether my next car which I'm looking to purchase this year is another Audi A4 or A3, or another brand (my previous car was a BMW 3 series bought from the same dealer, and I like the newer Lexus IS-350).

[B7TitaniumA4]

how is it possible that the dealer never inspected this if you had your services there? it is a known issue!!!!
I researched a lot before buying my B7, so when I learned about these failing, I listened to the spot where the Cam follower is with a mechanics stethoscope at the dealer, and it was the first thing I looked at after I brought the car home, 68k and mine looked fine. will be getting replaced with the next oil change though. good luck with Audi USA

[ilmonster]

Also, got to say kudos to the folks with various write-ups on Audzine.com and the Edge Motors youtube video on how to replace the cam follower! Being a 2008, there was no bango fitting to remove and I was still able to get the fuel pump off enough to get at the follower.

[ilmonster]

B7Titanium, my dealer never mentioned the cam follower at any time when I went there for a servicing. 12K miles ago they did the full timing belt service (timing belt, water pump, serpentine belt, pulley's, etc.) and didn't say boo about it. Never mentioned it at the 60K miles service, 30K service and all the oil changes they've done for me.

[Schweini]

B7Titanium, my dealer never mentioned the cam follower at any time when I went there for a servicing. 12K miles ago they did the full timing belt service (timing belt, water pump, serpentine belt, pulley's, etc and didn't say boo about it. Never mentioned it at the 60K miles service, 30K service and all the oil changes they've done for me.

That's really quite a shame. Cam followers are a very well known part to fail, and there's even a TSB on them ( not on 2008s for some reason). A broken follower can amount to very expensive damages.

They should've known better. Or perhaps they did check it but neglected to change it.

[Okedokey]

Do they even check it as a part of the service?

[ilmonster]

Not that I ever saw on the repair order. Then again, there were "theoretically" no issues with the 2008 models. Looking at the 2008 maintenance schedule, there is no mention of cam followers. I'm hoping that the pieces are in the oil filter or sitting comfortably at the bottom of the oil pan.

[Schweini]

You can still have cam damage or pump damage, despite where the follower remains are

[ilmonster]

Schweini, you're right and that's why I'm going to try my dealer tomorrow and see what type of assistance (if any) they might be willing to grant me.

[Schweini]

Right. I didn't see your text after the images, so you already know that.

Let's hope it works out for you. It really sucks that AoA won't do jack shit for cam issues if you're a 2008. Ive had bad luck myself with Audi of Canada.

[TransAm87WS6]

I checked mine last week, too, after reading the repeated issues everyone has been having...

While mine is an '06, the cam follower was done along with replacement of the intake cam with the revised "B" cam for the prior owner under CPO in April of 2010 with 44,769 miles.

Oil is changed religiously every 5k miles with Castrol 5w40 Synthetic (VW certified), and all recommended maintenance has been done...

When I checked the follower last week with 118,896 miles, while not broken, there was noticeable wear on the old follower (and it was thin) with approximately 74k miles on it... Luckily, the cam lobe and HPFP are still perfectly fine; but what this means to me that while the revised cam helps matters some, it definitely was not a "fix".

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/image1298.jpg

[80sGuy]

I also have a 2008 (with a mfg date of July 2007) purchased in Sept 2007. When I brought my car in for service last year, I requested for them to check/replaced the cam follower if necessary, and as stupid as it sounded the service guy said they will not touch it unless there is a light. My car is currently at 53K miles and runs fine but I am tempted to check the Cam Follower myself.

[adam044]

I'm at 95k and as far as I know it hasn't been changed. I'll check it once it's warmer out and definitely before I get it tuned.

[Samsonite]

My 2008 dolphin grey avant had its cam follower changed at 105k (presumably for the first time) and it only showed minimal, even wear, with some of the black coating still remaining. As with a lot of things, it seems every car is different. Best of luck to you OP [up]

[drewgold]

I wouldn't hold your breath about the dealer doing anything but if you bought the car there new, you may have some leverage. They can request a 'good will' warranty repair from Audi, it may or may not be approved but probably your best best. Hope it works out for you!

[ilmonster]

I too was waiting until it warmed up here in Wisconsin before taking a look at the follower, and am glad I did. For those who haven't checked it yet (80sguy and adam044), it isn't too difficult a job (I'm no master mechanic [;)]), just a bit tight in working space to remove various connectors, etc. I used a torque wrench to reinstall the three T30 head torx bolts that hold the HPFP on and the bolts don't take a great deal of torque (7.4 ft/lbs if I recall), so don't crank them down too hard.

What I am a bit surprised by is that with those pieces of follower broken off, that the engine didn't somehow grenade itself. Hopefully they came out in one of my oil changes, were caught in the oil filter or are at the bottom of the oil pan.

I'm hoping my dealer (and Audi USA) do the right thing as I am looking to get a new car this year, and aside from this issue (kind of a big issue though), I've been really pleased with my A4 and have been seriously considering another one. This would be my third car from this dealer. I hope they value my business, and all the profits they've made from the servicing of my car. Thanks for the good thoughts everyone!

[ilmonster]

Well, stopped by the dealer and they said they couldn't do anything. Called Audi USA and they said the dealer to do the cam follower service and submit it for "goodwill", but there would be no guarantee it would be covered as good will. Guess I'll keep driving and hope for the best. In the interim, at my next oil change (in 2K miles), I will ask for the oil filter back and cut it open to hopefully find some nice little pieces of cam follower sitting in there. If there are none and the car continues to run fine, I'll assume it's at the bottom of the oil pan. The big question is, do I consider another Audi for a new car...

[KingWulfgar]

I had mine checked (had to pay for it, no way Audi was going to look at it for free) back in 2014 when I had a LPFP problem that my indie shop was telling me was the cam follower issue (without looking at the cam follower). It looked a little worn, but not terrible. I let it go up to the 10 year mark (my car was in service late 2015) and then just paid $100 to have the shop swap it out. I would've done it myself, but I have the banjo bolt and didn't want to deal with it. I have the old cam follower as a trophy. I bought the car with 35k miles on it and I doubt it was replaced before that. I replaced it at 95k miles and it really didn't look that bad. Thinner, the black coating was gone, and a light circle was starting to appear.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1496/23608933784_5fa457089b_z.jpg

[Brillo]

ilmonster You are unlikely to find metal chunks in the oil filter as they would have to be small enough to pass through the oil pump screen on the pickup first. But you should check it for very small particles. If I were you I would pop the valve cover off to see if there are any metal chunks laying up there. I would also drop the pan and look for metal chunks there too, and while you're at it stick a magnetic drain plug in and monitor it during oil changes. I'm not sure if you can get into the timing chain housing where the HPFP resides without a major effort, but if you remove the HPFP and pull the follower out you could stick a small magnetic probe in there to see if anything comes out. Lastly, you might want to consider a oil analysis at Blackstone Labs. If it is high in iron it could mean that you are grinding up particles from the follower and they are circulating in the oil system. Particularly vulnerable components are the oil pump, follower cam lobe, cam chain and tensioner, and the counter-balance shafts.

[Okedokey]

He probably is due for a chain and tensioner anyway. Do all of that and flush the oil afterwards.

[Theiceman]

Well my car is sitting at 255K ( kilometers so that's bout 150K miles ) just bought it not too long ago and its sitting in the driveway so I think you all know what's coming..possibly some gruesome pics.

good news is its just sitting there. Have not driven it since I bought it a couple months ago, gonna be an interesting couple of weeks of wrenching when the weather warms up a little and we get rid of this snow.

[torrque]

Mine was blown at 121k when I bough the car, and the car had perfect service records at Audi. Being 1k over, Audi did not want to fix it, and I ended up changing myself the hpfp, cam, follower, chain and tensioner, belt, water pump, etc. etc.. I spent 2 weekends on the darn thing...

I also had no errors on dash or any codes at all, was fine with the follower gone... So you can't rely on any signs, you need to open it up and look at it. If the follower has been punched through, the cam lobe is gone, trust me. You can't kid yourself that you can run with old cam and just a new follower, I tried, it will munch through the new follower in no time.

Good luck.

[ilmonster]

Mine too had no signs of a worn cam follower - no CEL, ran fine, good gas mileage, etc. It was just my curiosity from reading all the cam follower threads that made me purchase a new one and take a look. If I need to change the HPFP, cam, etc., that will be at least $1500-$2000. On a 2008 car, it then comes down to do I change those items and keep it a few more years, or just look for a new car to replace it? Or maybe, just change the follower every 10K or 20K miles as the cam lobe might chew it up? And I've been so happy with the A4 until this! Sucks...

[Brillo]

[B]ilmonster[B]
I would consider an oil analysis at Blackstone or one of the other labs and look specifically at iron. If the readings are at or below the norms you might be OK. Put in a magnetic drain plug, change the oil often initially, and keep an eye on the follower.

[Jake@JHM]

In my 08 I changed the cam follower for the first time (based on having all service records) at 100k it didn't look too bad.

It's a hit or miss.

Luckily we have cam followers for a stellar price! Clicky! (https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/cam-follower-for-fuel-pump-for-b7-a4-20t-p-1629.html)

We also have the updated camshaft: Clicky (https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/camshaft-or-cam-intake-oem-for-b7-a4-20t-mk5-vw-gti-jetta-passat-eos-bpg-bpy-or-bwt-engine-p-3515.html)

[Theiceman]

Actually 279 USD seems a pretty good price for a replacement cam . if you can do the work yourself and put in a new follower you can be bck on the road at reasonable cost. of course you have to make a decision on the pump and other wyit projects.

[torrque]

Actually 279 USD seems a pretty good price for a replacement cam . if you can do the work yourself and put in a new follower you can be bck on the road at reasonable cost. of course you have to make a decision on the pump and other wyit projects.

If you open it up to change the cam, you might as well put in a new chain and tensioner, as you need to remove them...

You *might* also have to change the cam seal at the front of the engine (exhaust cam seal ) because as you move the cam girdle out, you'll never seat that seal back in properly... Which means you need to take the whole bloody bumper out, and remove the timing belt to get the big timing sprocket out and change the seal... I did not change the seal initially, and it was leaking like a b*&**tch, and then I was forced to ... And as I had the timing belt out, I forked out another couple hundred and got a new water pump, pulley and belt from (insert your favorite vendor here, I don't want to open another can of worms, people are very sensitive here on this forum, probably sour grapes from owing an Audi :) ).

[B72011]

Mine was blown at 121k when I bough the car, and the car had perfect service records at Audi. Being 1k over, Audi did not want to fix it, and I ended up changing myself the hpfp, cam, follower, chain and tensioner, belt, water pump, etc. etc.. I spent 2 weekends on the darn thing...

I also had no errors on dash or any codes at all, was fine with the follower gone... So you can't rely on any signs, you need to open it up and look at it. If the follower has been punched through, the cam lobe is gone, trust me. You can't kid yourself that you can run with old cam and just a new follower, I tried, it will munch through the new follower in no time.

Good luck.

I tried and I've gotten 5k out of it---no problemo. I swapped it out as a percaution but there was just a little wear on the cam follower. I got it just in time apparently--it had just broken through the cam follower and was riding on the camshaft but the newer hardened cam held up like a champion and showed little to no wear itself. Timing was everything. The HPFP tip was a bit worn---nothing crazy. If its blown through and the cam looks decent, replace the follower then check at 1K, 3K and 5K you might be OK as I haven been.
Cam follower replacements at 3K or 5K are a helluva lot cheaper thru JHM than a full camshaft replacement!!

[naiku]

That's really quite a shame. Cam followers are a very well known part to fail, and there's even a TSB on them ( not on 2008s for some reason).


This is exactly why his dealer never checked it despite having all his service done there, as far as Audi are concerned they fixed the issue for 2008. Never mind the fact that this is another example showing that they did not in fact fix it, as far as Audi care the Revision B parts fix the issue and so 2008's (and earlier years who have had the parts replaced) are all good. It's ridiculous, but nothing anyone can do but make sure to check it regularly while they own the car.

[ilmonster]

As I am unsure how long I will own this car, I don't have the desire (or possibly the skills and time) to replace the cam and HPFP. Nor right now do I want to spend the money. I will probably do what B72011 suggested above, and take a look at the follower and cam lobe in 6 months or so and see if the follower at that point has higher than normal wear. Of course, I may have a new car at that point...don't know today. Thanks for all the feedback!!

[80sGuy]

^^Always have a new cam follower handy when doing so. I'd replace it on the spot for all the work regardless of condition.