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View Full Version : Are all 2.0t coil packs created the same? Accidentally bought AWM coil packs.



maxiz1
02-28-2016, 02:49 PM
Hi all,
I'm planning to delete the ICM and upgrade the coil packs. I was tempted by an online offer and bought a set of 06A905115D (it looks like all other 2.0t coilpacks). To my surprise, these coil are the OEM sets for 1.8t AWM engine. I start doubting it when the key on the coil is a bit thicker and does not fit the keyway on the tuoareg adapter plates.

So my question is? Can this be used effectively used for my 2.0t project? I'm not just talking about fitment, but also ability to delete the ICM as well as running larger gaps on the spark plugs. Thanks.

Davdraco1
02-28-2016, 06:02 PM
I know the AWM and 2.0T could packs have the same connector. The 2.0t are just longer.

tar
02-28-2016, 06:16 PM
Not the same. I have 2.0 on my awm for better spark, awm are just awms run lower gap vs the higher 2.0t.

It will work from what I know for icm del, just not the gapping.

GOODBYNAAIR
02-28-2016, 10:46 PM
I don't remember why but for us the fsi coils run better than the tfsi . And like he said u will get better spark and more reliable. I run oem mkv gti FIS coils from amazon best price at the time. 2 years now with no problems.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

tar
02-28-2016, 11:19 PM
I believe I have the fsi too. I'll get part number tomorrow and take a side by side pic if you need

Seerlah
02-29-2016, 03:50 AM
2.0 ignition coils are longer than 1 8t, and have a higher voltage spark. They won't fit using the adapter plates. The coil end won't seat properly onto the spark plug and will basically arc vs transferring the voltage to the spark plug.

maxiz1
02-29-2016, 05:29 AM
Tar - please do. Appreciate your help. Else i have to post them onto ebay.

Serlah - can you clarify about the fitment issue for the 2.0t coils? I always thought it is not a problem since from what i read the coils fit snugly over the plugs without the need of any adapter plates. Is it the red coils you're talking about?

maxiz1
02-29-2016, 05:34 AM
I forgot to mention that my engine is 1.8t APU or ATW equivalent for US but the coils has the 3 pins like the AEB. Kinda weird setup.

DoesntCare
02-29-2016, 07:00 AM
VwVortex Coil Pack tests (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6903752-Is-a-2-0T-coil-right-for-you/page2)

Check out post #34, a guy ran some tests and found that the output is the same between the 2.0t coilpacks and the 1.8t coil packs.

redline380
02-29-2016, 07:03 AM
VwVortex Coil Pack tests (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6903752-Is-a-2-0T-coil-right-for-you/page2)

Check out post #34, a guy ran some tests and found that the output is the same between the 2.0t coilpacks and the 1.8t coil packs.

Read that closely. The only thing he tested for was spark duration, not strength of spark.

Seerlah
02-29-2016, 07:54 AM
2.0 coils fit right over them. But you have awm coils, which are shorter than the tsi/tsfi coils. If you use the adapter plate, that plate creates a gap/spacing that won't allow the awm to seat on the plug.

And 2.0 coils def have a greater spark. You don't even have to really test it. Gap a plug the same on a 1.8t coil as you do on a 2.0 coil and it will blow out...due to not as strong of a voltage.

DoesntCare
02-29-2016, 08:17 AM
If anyone can provide some actual output tests of the two I'd love to see them.

If you read the other posts in the thread people have tested 1.8t coils vs 2.0t coils and found they were identical in spark blow out as well.

There is also a vendor listing the advantages of the 2.0t coils as being cheaper, and the added height improving the longevity of the wiring harness to the coils, but nothing about performance.

Maxiz, you should be fine using the coils you got

tar
02-29-2016, 08:37 AM
who got banned yesterday?

I call bs till you provide us some data. not some thread with spotty info.

Lots of us have upgraded and noticed a difference.

DoesntCare
02-29-2016, 08:54 AM
who got banned yesterday?

I call bs till you provide us some data. not some thread with spotty info.

Lots of us have upgraded and noticed a difference.

For everyone in this thread saying they saw a difference there is someone in that thread saying there isn't one.

I provided data, but haven't seen any data to prove the 2.0t coils are better, just opinions.

If any of you can provide me with actual data showing an improvement I would love to see it, but until then, I'm going to go with the people who have done comparison tests and found the coil packs to be identical.


Just out of curiousity, how many of you have compared NEW 1.8t coils to NEW 2.0t coils? And how many of you replaced your existing 1.8t coils with 2.0t coils when you saw the improvements?

walky_talky20
02-29-2016, 09:52 AM
There are 2 different options here for the taller coils, the ELDOR coils (red "R8" coils: 06E-905-115E or black version: 07K-905-715F) or the BOSCH coils (black with plastic covering the shaft: 06H-905-115B).

In my non scientific testing (pulling the coil off the plug and seeing how far it jumps), I think the BOSCH coils are superior. I am quite certain they are not "the same" as the 1.8T coils. They are a completely different manufacturer and a different looking part altogether. I would like to see somebody actually testing output voltage capability of a new R8 (06E) coil and a new Bosch coil (06H), compared to a new 1.8T coil (latest 115D).

MetalMan
02-29-2016, 10:19 AM
I'm running the latest black-top 2.0T coil pack, PN 06H905115B, Bosch as walky mentioned above.

Personally I haven't tested spark capacity of these vs. stock AWM coils. I have run a gap of 0.044" on my current coilpacks without misfires on NGK BKR7E. Can't say I tried the same test with new AWM coil packs.

walky_talky20
02-29-2016, 10:51 AM
Also, it should probably be mentioned that at least the ELDOR coils can be made in several different places. There is production on the red "115E" part number in Italy and Turkey, and probably Brazil, too. It is certainly possible that there are performance differences based on their origin. The ones from Italy could be amazing and the ones from Brazil could be a joke. It's difficult to say.

Seerlah
02-29-2016, 10:52 AM
^That is because they will blow out.

OP, don't listen to that guy. He is incorrect in not just the spark, but running the awm coils. You need the adapters for the aeb valve cover. Your valve cover is not designed for push down style coils. You need the adapter plates, which will push space out the awm ignition coils. You can try pushing the boots down. If that doesn't work, you need 2.0 coils or rig up something so the ignition cpils don't wobble.

DoesntCare
02-29-2016, 11:04 AM
^That is because they will blow out.

OP, don't listen to that guy. He is incorrect in not just the spark, but running the awm coils. You need the adapters for the aeb valve cover. Your valve cover is not designed for push down style coils. You need the adapter plates, which will push space out the awm ignition coils. You can try pushing the boots down. If that doesn't work, you need 2.0 coils or rig up something so the ignition cpils don't wobble.

So you have tested NEW 1.8t coils against NEW 2.0t coils? Not 1.8t coils that have been on the car previously compared to new 2.0t coils?

tar
02-29-2016, 11:05 AM
So you have tested NEW 1.8t coils against NEW 2.0t coils? Not 1.8t coils that have been on the car previously compared to new 2.0t coils?

maybe you should since your the only one who cares,

rest of us doesntcare

DoesntCare
02-29-2016, 11:14 AM
maybe you should since your the only one who cares,

rest of us doesntcare

Enjoy wasting your money I guess.

redline380
02-29-2016, 11:23 AM
Enjoy wasting your money I guess.

Wasting money on what?

walky_talky20
02-29-2016, 11:24 AM
I think I can do this. I have a couple brand new 1.8T (115D) recall coils. And I have a couple brand new R8 (115E) coils. I think I can get a new Bosch 115B coil from my brother. Then test them with this guy:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31zKrGoCurL.jpg

That will give me the air gap measurement that each coil is capable of crossing, which equates to a certain voltage.

DoesntCare
02-29-2016, 11:34 AM
Wasting money on what?

The Adapter plates to run taller coils. $80-100 for adapter plates as opposed to picking up a push down style Valve cover from a junkyard or classifieds for $20, and a $20 VC gasket.

Or for people with AWM engines, no cost at all.


I think I can do this. I have a couple brand new 1.8T (115D) recall coils. And I have a couple brand new R8 (115E) coils. I think I can get a new Bosch 115B coil from my brother. Then test them with this guy:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31zKrGoCurL.jpg

That will give me the air gap measurement that each coil is capable of crossing, which equates to a certain voltage.

Would love to see the results of the tests Walky.

Seerlah
02-29-2016, 02:11 PM
I run them on the awm with no adapters. Just manipulated the boots. Nobody cares about the adapters. Point I was trying to tell OP was he can't run awm coils on his aeb valve cover. I too think the adapters are a waste. But in some cases warranted, like in the OP's case. Or when people simply want a cleaner look, where they can enjoy both function and form.

I too am interested in the results for the above experiment. But being able to make a gap larger than .04" should be a clear indication that the spark is greater. That will never be able to be done on the 1.8t coil because it will blow out.

I for one have never came across a thread of people experiencing spark plug blow outs with 2.0 coils. Only time I did was when people ran too big of a gap. Not all cars are created equal, both mechanical and electrical wise (ie short creating drop). But even then, they were still able to go at least .04". That simply can't be done with the 1.8t coil.

Avant Nate
02-29-2016, 03:25 PM
I think I can do this. I have a couple brand new 1.8T (115D) recall coils. And I have a couple brand new R8 (115E) coils. I think I can get a new Bosch 115B coil from my brother. Then test them with this guy:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31zKrGoCurL.jpg

That will give me the air gap measurement that each coil is capable of crossing, which equates to a certain voltage.

For the sake of science I have an unused Beru AEB coil that you can use for comparison if you want 058-905-105/47. I've had it for years before I switched over to the useless, waste of money 2.0 coil conversion.

maxiz1
02-29-2016, 11:57 PM
Here the comparison between the AWM and the AEB coils:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo184/maxiz1/IMG_9670_zpsg6hg7zsp.jpg

Here's the fitment over the valve cover:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo184/maxiz1/IMG_9671_zps6yxktt67.jpg

As you can see, it fits nicely without leaving much gap on the surface. I agree that due to this, an adapter is not possible. My only complain is that it is not perfectly straight up vertically, but rather inclined to one side (left from picture). Is it just my valve cover is out of alignment or everybody else has the same issue? If the latter is true, how then you could install an adapter for the longer 2.0t coils since I believe the adapter hole is at the center?

I'm also interested in walky's test, especially comparing the 1.8t AWM coils at larger gap.

Seerlah
03-01-2016, 03:33 AM
Keith, I have brand new r8 coils laying around as spares if you want one for NEW testing.

OP, the awm coils don't wobble? The boots are to hole them in place in the cylinders. If not for those, they will most likely dislodge themselves from the spark plugs. As for the slant, this has been known for a while. Far as I know, it is the black tsi coils that had issues with splitting. But later down the road, that was found to be unrelated and a manufacturer defect. They have been updated since then.

maxiz1
03-01-2016, 04:10 AM
Seerlah - i didn't manage to test it while the engine is running coz i haven't completed the wiring. But it does feel tight and firm though. I read in some other thread people reported not having the adapters without any problems. I did bought a set of touareg adapters however I think I may not be using them coz they feel very cheap and could easily break.

Seerlah
03-01-2016, 05:41 AM
That is for push down style valve covers. You have a bolt down style. Just because it is seated on the plug firmly does not mean it is planted in the cylinder firmly. Your engine moves a lot. This will cause the coil to make it's way off the plug after a while if not firmly planted on the actual valve cover, and not the spark plug.

redline380
03-01-2016, 05:44 AM
Why doesn't OP just pick up a push down valve cover?

walky_talky20
03-01-2016, 06:17 AM
Keith, I have brand new r8 coils laying around as spares if you want one for NEW testing.

Thanks for the offer. I do have new ones, though. And used ones. Would be interesting to see the difference, actually. I think my current R8 coils have about 100k miles on them. Man, I stack miles on this car!

Seerlah
03-01-2016, 07:52 AM
Why doesn't OP just pick up a push down valve cover?

That was suggested above by doesntcare. He would need to cap off the rear breather port. Or add a vented catch can to it. Or...just dump it to the ground.

maxiz1
03-01-2016, 04:38 PM
That was suggested above by doesntcare. He would need to cap off the rear breather port. Or add a vented catch can to it. Or...just dump it to the ground.

Unfortunately in my country, they don't sell B5 with push down VC so I couldn't find it in the junk yard. Importing through ebay would cost the same as getting the billet adapters. Plus, I would want to be able to swap the setup back to the original, in case this upgrade is not that reliable compared to the OEM setup.

redline380
03-02-2016, 06:22 AM
Which country is that? There are other cars out there with a cover that could be used

Davdraco1
03-02-2016, 06:34 AM
That was suggested above by doesntcare. He would need to cap off the rear breather port. Or add a vented catch can to it. Or...just dump it to the ground.

This is what I did. Put s little 3/4in breather filter on the VC and used one of 034 adapters for the crankcase.

maxiz1
03-05-2016, 08:18 PM
So I managed to make my own hold down brackets with a piece of aluminum flat bar. Cost next to nothing but took around 3 hours to do it. Thanks to redline380 for giving me the idea.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo184/maxiz1/IMG_9679_zpsfdei48aw.jpg

As you can see near the firewall, I've used a connector instead of wiring the coil plugs directly to the harness. This is so that I could swap back to the original harness if I don't like this upgrade. My original harness was similarly modified:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo184/maxiz1/IMG_9681_zpsgormxsjg.jpg

Still have the ICM connected:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo184/maxiz1/IMG_9677_zpsfy5sw4l2.jpg

Not!!! I bought a chinese knock offs from ebay and hacked the internals:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo184/maxiz1/IMG_9678_zpsmmsye0qg.jpg

Started the car and it fired up right away. I didn't notice any performance gain since I didn't re-gap the plugs as the coils are designed for 1.8t. I'll save money for a couple of months to get the 2.0t coils anyway.

maxiz1
03-09-2016, 11:04 PM
So after 4 days of running the AWM coils, I feel I don't like them. Apart from the disappearance of the random slight misfire that I was having at idle, everything else seems to be a little bit worse. Car feels slightly heavier, and fuel consumption kinda increased 10-20%. I have switched back to the original setup.

So I guess the 2.0t coils is the way to go.

OverSpun
03-10-2016, 12:01 AM
There are 2 different options here for the taller coils, the ELDOR coils (red "R8" coils: 06E-905-115E or black version: 07K-905-715F) or the BOSCH coils (black with plastic covering the shaft: 06H-905-115B).

In my non scientific testing (pulling the coil off the plug and seeing how far it jumps), I think the BOSCH coils are superior. I am quite certain they are not "the same" as the 1.8T coils. They are a completely different manufacturer and a different looking part altogether. I would like to see somebody actually testing output voltage capability of a new R8 (06E) coil and a new Bosch coil (06H), compared to a new 1.8T coil (latest 115D).

I upgraded to the red R8 coils a couple years back and they have been running well. IIRC, they have higher Ohms which is better. I cant remember exactly where I found my research to decide but I think this shows part of it. - http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45050

DoesntCare
03-10-2016, 06:30 AM
So after 4 days of running the AWM coils, I feel I don't like them. Apart from the disappearance of the random slight misfire that I was having at idle, everything else seems to be a little bit worse. Car feels slightly heavier, and fuel consumption kinda increased 10-20%. I have switched back to the original setup.

So I guess the 2.0t coils is the way to go.


I upgraded to the red R8 coils a couple years back and they have been running well. IIRC, they have higher Ohms which is better. I cant remember exactly where I found my research to decide but I think this shows part of it. - http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45050

Judging by that thread, R8 coils are the way to go, not 2.0t


I'm curious of the secondary resistance of the 1.8t coils vs what they show as stock for the 2.0t

SN95Audi87
03-10-2016, 10:11 AM
Not to thread hijack. Does the 2.0T Coils that ecs, and other companys sells fit with the stock engine cover. I have AWM long block and wanted to know if this could work. I hate wasting money but I love it for the performance.


Nate

MetalMan
03-10-2016, 10:41 AM
Not to thread hijack. Does the 2.0T Coils that ecs, and other companys sells fit with the stock engine cover. I have AWM long block and wanted to know if this could work. I hate wasting money but I love it for the performance.


Nate

2.0T coil packs don't fit the stock AWM engine cover, unfortunately. I'm running the 034 Motorsport stainless steel coil cover, and it clears 2.0T coil packs.

SN95Audi87
03-10-2016, 10:47 AM
2.0T coil packs don't fit the stock AWM engine cover, unfortunately. I'm running the 034 Motorsport stainless steel coil cover, and it clears 2.0T coil packs.


Thanks MetalMan, how much does the 034 Motorsports engine cover run?

MetalMan
03-10-2016, 10:49 AM
Looks like $30:
https://store.034motorsport.com/coil-cover-audi-volkswagen-1-8t-stainless-steel.html

SN95Audi87
03-10-2016, 11:25 AM
Looks like $30:
https://store.034motorsport.com/coil-cover-audi-volkswagen-1-8t-stainless-steel.html

I like it a lot!

maxiz1
03-10-2016, 02:21 PM
Judging by that thread, R8 coils are the way to go, not 2.0t


I'm curious of the secondary resistance of the 1.8t coils vs what they show as stock for the 2.0t

How to measure this? I tried poking a few points but could not get any readings.

OverSpun
03-10-2016, 05:31 PM
Not to thread hijack. Does the 2.0T Coils that ecs, and other companys sells fit with the stock engine cover. I have AWM long block and wanted to know if this could work. I hate wasting money but I love it for the performance.


Nate


2.0T coil packs don't fit the stock AWM engine cover, unfortunately. I'm running the 034 Motorsport stainless steel coil cover, and it clears 2.0T coil packs.

MetalMan is right... definitely need some sort of spacer since the R8 or 2.0T coils are taller. I have ECS's spacer set (black), I think it's well made and looks good too.

SN95Audi87
03-11-2016, 08:42 AM
MetalMan is right... definitely need some sort of spacer since the R8 or 2.0T coils are taller. I have ECS's spacer set (black), I think it's well made and looks good too.

Post up a picture if you can....

DoesntCare
03-11-2016, 09:33 AM
How to measure this? I tried poking a few points but could not get any readings.

No clue, I was hoping they mentioned how they tested it in the thread but it ends up being people talking about the plugs more than anything else.

OverSpun
03-11-2016, 11:30 AM
Post up a picture if you can....

Mine looks like ECS's picture besides I do not have the red conduit-

https://c1552172.ssl.cf0.rackcdn.com/514565_x800.jpg

redline380
03-11-2016, 11:50 AM
The spacer is not necessary on AWM valve covers if you use the rubbers from the FSI coils. They fit in tightly with them on.

Avant Nate
03-11-2016, 01:57 PM
Still waiting for test results......[>_>]

SN95Audi87
03-11-2016, 03:44 PM
The spacer is not necessary on AWM valve covers if you use the rubbers from the FSI coils. They fit in tightly with them on.

But they still stick out a half of an inch out though right? Just guessing here.

maxiz1
04-03-2016, 07:09 PM
Ok. I received the red coil packs from China. Bought it for USD 100 for 4 pieces (incl. shipping). Unfortunately it began misfiring after day 5 at 0.04" gap. I have shorten the gap to 0.035 but still misfires so have switched back to the 1.8t coils. My spark plug tip turned to dry black instead of usually being whitish.

Below is the coil that I bought from AliExpress. It looks like a genuine VW but I doubt it. The notch is 1mm further down that the connector does not click onto it.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo184/maxiz1/IMG_9771_zpsdgrri11s.jpg

I wanted to ask.. which coil brand is reasonably good?

Bordom
04-03-2016, 08:36 PM
Ok. I received the red coil packs from China. Bought it for USD 100 for 4 pieces (incl. shipping). Unfortunately it began misfiring after day 5 at 0.04" gap. I have shorten the gap to 0.035 but still misfires so have switched back to the 1.8t coils. My spark plug tip turned to dry black instead of usually being whitish.

Below is the coil that I bought from AliExpress. It looks like a genuine VW but I doubt it. The notch is 1mm further down that the connector does not click onto it.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo184/maxiz1/IMG_9771_zpsdgrri11s.jpg

I wanted to ask.. which coil brand is reasonably good?
OEM R8 coils because they're like $30/piece

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

tar
04-03-2016, 08:48 PM
Aka he saved like nothing by going with Chinese fakes

Avant Nate
04-03-2016, 08:54 PM
Who buys shut from aliexpress? Cheaper on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Volkswagen-Coil-Pack-06E-905-115-E/dp/B008QXZ5UI

Bordom
04-03-2016, 10:12 PM
Aka he saved like nothing by going with Chinese fakes
Did it for the lolz

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

maxiz1
04-04-2016, 03:02 AM
Did it for the lolz

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

Not entirely true. I don't live in the US and it will cost me USD 60-70 per coil from ECS or any reputable supplier to get it delivered due to shipping and import duty. Tried saving money buying from china but turns out to be a dissapointment. They have return policy though.

Bordom
04-04-2016, 10:18 AM
Not entirely true. I don't live in the US and it will cost me USD 60-70 per coil from ECS or any reputable supplier to get it delivered due to shipping and import duty. Tried saving money buying from china but turns out to be a dissapointment. They have return policy though.
In this case, the dealer is your friend

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

audireme
04-04-2016, 09:54 PM
Genuine Audi Parts have had them on sale for a while now. $17.50 plus shipping. Not sure about intl shipping though, that might add quite a bit.