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maga4
02-11-2016, 07:24 AM
Hey all,

I feel like I saw some threads on this before but couldn't find them. My 3G MMI w/Nav didn't want to start up this morning. It is completely blank, no sound, and no lights on the buttons. Temps or water aren't an issue in this case. Interestingly, when I hard/force reset it, it comes on with the splash screen and then dies after about 3 seconds.

I don't know much, but I believe this means it's getting power fine and receiving signals from the buttons just fine. Anyone have any thoughts? (Will scan with Vag-Com when I get home tonight).

Thanks in advance!

UPDATE: Problem resolved - bad amplifier, needed exact part number. Replacement fixed the issue.

jstarr427
02-11-2016, 11:11 AM
Hey all,

I feel like I saw some threads on this before but couldn't find them. My 3G MMI w/Nav didn't want to start up this morning. It is completely blank, no sound, and no lights on the buttons. Temps or water aren't an issue in this case. Interestingly, when I hard/force reset it, it comes on with the splash screen and then dies after about 3 seconds.

I don't know much, but I believe this means it's getting power fine and receiving signals from the buttons just fine. Anyone have any thoughts? (Will scan with Vag-Com when I get home tonight).

Thanks in advance!
Scan it and post up here, be sure to run the fiber optic test as well.
Everything in the MMI system is connected on a MOST loop, basically a fiber optic loop. Each control module receives a FO signal and transmits that signal onto the next module in the loop. If one item fails, everything goes down. The loop test will tell you the status of modules both electrically and optically, which can help you to determine where the break is.

Had this problem on a 06 A6, found the Bluetooth module under the driver's carpet had gotten wet, so maybe I'd start there. Once I replaced that, I had loop integrity up to the control head, which also turned out to be bad. What really helps in diagnosing these is a fiber optic loop back adapter, which allows you to unplug a module and 'loop' the F.O. Signal to the next module.

Edit: If you have a break in the FO network (which I'm gonna venture a guess that you do, you won't have communication with most of the MMI modules, but I'd double check all the fuses to make sure that it's not just that.
I will also post up the PN# for the MOST loopback adapter I have, got it at the dealer, think it was like $30 or so. Worth it to be able to troubleshoot these issues.

maga4
02-11-2016, 11:20 AM
Scan it and post up here, be sure to run the fiber optic test as well.
Everything in the MMI system is connected on a MOST loop, basically a fiber optic loop. Each control module receives a FO signal and transmits that signal onto the next module in the loop. If one item fails, everything goes down. The loop test will tell you the status of modules both electrically and optically, which can help you to determine where the break is.

Had this problem on a 06 A6, found the Bluetooth module under the driver's carpet had gotten wet, so maybe I'd start there. Once I replaced that, I had loop integrity up to the control head, which also turned out to be bad. What really helps in diagnosing these is a fiber optic loop back adapter, which allows you to unplug a module and 'loop' the F.O. Signal to the next module.

Edit: If you have a break in the FO network (which I'm gonna venture a guess that you do, you won't have communication with most of the MMI modules, but I'd double check all the fuses to make sure that it's not just that.
I will also post up the PN# for the MOST loopback adapter I have, got it at the dealer, think it was like $30 or so. Worth it to be able to troubleshoot these issues.

Great, will do tonight. I can run the test without the adapter, correct? Our good friends at the local dealership want $155 plus a few hours to diagnose it, so definitely worth a try. Question: do I have to pull everything out to use the adapter, or just the glove box?

Thanks!

jstarr427
02-11-2016, 02:20 PM
you can scan it without the adapter, sure. however, In my case with the 06, a bad Bluetooth module was causing the whole loop to show 'ERROR' on electrical and optical tests. the loopback adapter allows you to take a single component out of the system. Sticking with my example, if all you had was a bad Bluetooth module, you'd simply unplug the Bluetooth module electrically, unplug the fiber optic cables and install the loop back adapter in place of the module (I'm talking Fiber Optic ONLY here). What that does is simply lets the optical signals pass through without issue. actually if you look in your trunk on the driver's side, unless you have ALL options, you may see one or more loopback adapter plugged into the Fiber optics from the factory!

hopefully that makes sense! I'll post up with the PN for the adaptor in a little while, finally outta work!

maga4
02-11-2016, 03:53 PM
Thanks again! Please see below for the scan and a both of the Optical Bus Scans (Normal and 3dB). I'll have to look in the trunk for the loop back and see if there is one there, although, I'm not entirely sure what it looks like ha.

(The engine code is for a MIL due to either a bad seal or EVAP that goes off every once and a while).

When it was running through, the Nav screen kicked on for a brief moment with the "Initializing Navigation" message. Other than that, the only thing I can get is the splash screen when I hard reset it). Really appreciate any help...thanks!


Thursday,11,February,2016,17:41:22:50461
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.3.0 (x64)
Data version: 20151216
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUKGAFB9AN049136 License Plate: 02 11 2016
Mileage: 76740km-47684mi Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: FB (4F0)
Scan: 01 02 03 05 08 09 0E 15 16 17 19 36 3C 42 46 47 4C 4F 52 53
55 56 5F 62 6C 72

VIN: WAUKGAFB9AN049136 Mileage: 76740km-47684miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
0E-Media Player 1 -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
36-Seat Mem. Drvr -- Status: OK 0000
3C-Lane Change -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
4C-Tire Pressure II -- Status: OK 0000
4F-Centr. Electr. II -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
55-Headlight Range -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
6C-Back-up Cam. -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (CCA) Labels: None
Part No SW: 4F1 910 551 D HW: 4F1 907 551
Component: 3.0l V6 TFSI 0020
Revision: --H06--- Serial number:
Coding: 0105000A190F0120
Shop #: WSC 02325 785 00200
VCID: 244DF085E71EE21E35-8070

1 Fault Found:
001110 - EVAP System
P0456 - 000 - Very Small Leak Detected - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 4
Fault Frequency: 7
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 75214 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.01.15
Time: 06:02:42

Freeze Frame:
Lambda: -3.0 %
Temperature: 7.5C
Temperature: 66.0C
Speed: 40.0 km/h
Time: 332.8 s
CAT Temp.: 430C

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 4F0-910-279.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 279 M HW: 4F0 907 279 A
Component: ILM Fahrer H22 0320
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 4F0907279
Coding: 0139123
Shop #: WSC 02335 785 00200
VCID: 336F03D952F075A6BC-8066

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 4F1 910 113 D Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
Component: Wischer AudiC6 H10 0040
Coding: 00056595
Shop #: WSC 02335

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8K0 910 557 Labels: 8K0-955-559.CLB
Component: REGENLICHTSENSORH04 0003
Coding: 00146221
Shop #: WSC 02335

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 0E: Media Player 1
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533) Labels: 4F0-907-468.clb
Part No SW: 4F0 907 468 N HW: 4F0 907 468 G
Component: GW-BEM 5CAN-M H06 0035
Revision: MB200030 Serial number: 3000M09B24010D
Coding: 000303
Shop #: WSC 02391 823 56573
VCID: 3A712EFDB59A84EE7F-806E

Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 915 181 C HW: 8K0 915 181 C
Component: J367-BDM H07 0125

1 Fault Found:
00384 - Optical Databus
011 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101011
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 231
Mileage: 76683 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.02.11
Time: 05:52:00

Freeze Frame:
Bin. Bits: 00000
Voltage: 11.60 V
Count: 11
Bin. Bits: 00000


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 4F0-910-289.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 289 N HW: 4F0 907 289 N
Component: Komfortgeraet H29 0250
Revision: 02500029 Serial number: 01247005700000
Coding: 4618269
Shop #: WSC 02335 785 00200
VCID: 356B3DC15C846B9692-8060

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H05 1501

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 4F: Centr. Electr. II Labels: 4F0-910-280.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 280 HW: 4F0 907 280 C
Component: ILM Beifahrer H13 0100
Revision: Serial number: 00000000539953
Coding: 0002014
Shop #: WSC 02145 785 00200
VCID: 5EB9826D89F288CE23-800A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 5F: Information Electr.
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6C: Back-up Cam. Labels: 4L0-910-441.clb
Part No SW: 4F0 910 441 D HW: 4L0 907 441 B
Component: J772__Rearview 0030
Revision: --H03--- Serial number: 525PA8-J9Y22V2
Coding: 1000304
Shop #: WSC 02145 785 00200
VCID: 2143F991F80CF7365E-8074

No fault code found.



End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:54)--------------------------



Thursday,11,February,2016,17:44:32:50461
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.3.0 (x64)
Data version: 20151216
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: License Plate: 02 11 2016 OBSCAN
Mileage: 76740km-47684mi Repair Order:


Control Module Part Number: 4F0 907 468 N
Component and/or Version: GW-BEM 5CAN-M H06 0035

Optical Bus Diagnostic : Standard

Controller Electrical Optical
19-CAN Gateway OK ERROR
5F-Information Electr.(High/D3)OK ERROR
0E-Media Player 1 OK ERROR
47-Sound System OK ERROR
56-Radio OK OK

************************************************** **********


Thursday,11,February,2016,17:46:19:50461
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.3.0 (x64)
Data version: 20151216
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: License Plate: 02 11 2016 OB3DB
Mileage: 76740km-47684mi Repair Order:


Control Module Part Number: 4F0 907 468 N
Component and/or Version: GW-BEM 5CAN-M H06 0035

Optical Bus Diagnostic : 3dB Attenuation

Controller Electrical Optical
19-CAN Gateway OK ERROR
5F-Information Electr.(High/D3)OK ERROR
0E-Media Player 1 OK OK
47-Sound System OK ERROR
56-Radio OK OK

************************************************** **********

jstarr427
02-11-2016, 05:12 PM
Interesting, looks like 3G MMI has a different control head address than 2G. The MMI control head on pre facelift cars is 07.
Anyway, from your scan I'm not surprised you have no communication with the modules listed. When the MOST bus goes down they control modules don't communicate. Everything passes the electrical test so that's good. The fact that you see the MMI logo and then the system shuts down should mean that the control module for the whole thing isn't toasted (I have seen them just go bad). What you need to do now is pretty simple although tedious. gotta access each of the modules that read ERROR and isolate them from the fiber optic loop with this bad boy https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/2-pin-connector-with-conductor/4e0973802/ Part number is 4E0 973 802. I'd start by accessing the stuff in the trunk, its easiest to get to. Unplug just the fiber optic portion (connectors with 2 black ribbed cables) one at a time, plug the loop back adapter into the lead you just unplugged, and run the fiber optic test again, and see what happens. if you suddenly see 'OK' for all the other modules, there's your culprit!

maga4
02-11-2016, 05:32 PM
^^^^ That's great, I appreciate it! I will swing by the dealer and pick it up tomorrow as it looks like they have that part in stock. Dumb question: if some of the modules are in the trunk, where are the others? Do I have to pull the glove box or unit? Hopefully it's just the satellite radio so I can cap that off since I don't use it, but not sure that's my luck!

Thank you again!

jstarr427
02-11-2016, 05:36 PM
You've got the sound system/amp in the trunk along with the nav unit, the Bluetooth/Phone (if you have it) is under the driver's seat. The CD changer and AMI (if you have one again) are easy to access, just drop the glove box. You don't have to pull the units out of the glove box, the connectors are all accessible simply by dropping the glove box (6-7 8mm little bolts IIRC). The MMI control unit is also under there, you should see it by where the FO cables go. I do not know where the satellite module is, actually I'm not sure if it's on the fiber optic network at all. Basically unplug one at a time and put the loopback adapter in its place, run test, see what happens!

It sucks that it's trial and error, but that's the way it works. It's the same on Saab, BMW, Mercedes, etc. I've only dealt with optical networks in Saab's and Audi so far.

Good luck, glad to be of help!

jasonscott77
02-15-2016, 05:45 PM
Maga4-
I'm having a similar problem, and I have some of the same fault codes. My mmi was working, but no audio from any source. Now my mmi is randomly turning off.
Have made any progress?
Good luck

maga4
02-16-2016, 04:13 AM
Maga4-
I'm having a similar problem, and I have some of the same fault codes. My mmi was working, but no audio from any source. Now my mmi is randomly turning off.
Have made any progress?
Good luck

Jason - I'll let you know today...thanks to jsarr427's help, I think I have it narrowed down to BT or the Radio module.

Your's sounds a bit different in that the MMI comes on...I wonder if it could be a bad amp? Do you have the Bose system? Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to test for the amp being at fault. Good luck!

maga4
02-16-2016, 07:07 AM
Well, it turns out it was the amp in my car. $1500 for the amp ($1100 cost), plus who knows how much they will charge to install/code.

Anyone done any aftermarket amps with the Bose system? Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks!

jasonscott77
02-16-2016, 07:34 PM
Well, it turns out it was the amp in my car. $1500 for the amp ($1100 cost), plus who knows how much they will charge to install/code.

Anyone done any aftermarket amps with the Bose system? Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks!

Did that diagnosis come from a dealer? Or were you able to narrow it down yourself using the optical bus diagnosis?
I see you mentioned $1500 for amp ($1100 cost), is the dealer charging you $1500? If our amps are the same part no 4F0035223P , I found it on Jim Ellis Audi parts for $1122. I think I saw a used one on eBay for $600. But I have no idea if others have had any luck with used amps. I also saw a few eBay sellers offering repair service in the $350 range. Again, maybe you can find someone who's had some experience with one of those services.
Best of luck to you. I'd love to hear what you decide on.

maga4
02-17-2016, 04:45 AM
Did that diagnosis come from a dealer? Or were you able to narrow it down yourself using the optical bus diagnosis?
I see you mentioned $1500 for amp ($1100 cost), is the dealer charging you $1500? If our amps are the same part no 4F0035223P , I found it on Jim Ellis Audi parts for $1122. I think I saw a used one on eBay for $600. But I have no idea if others have had any luck with used amps. I also saw a few eBay sellers offering repair service in the $350 range. Again, maybe you can find someone who's had some experience with one of those services.
Best of luck to you. I'd love to hear what you decide on.

Jason, I ended up taking it to the dealer, and they "100% confirmed" that it was the amp. They were pricing it at $1500 (with cost to them about $1100) and claim there is only three in the country. I'm not entirely sure that is the case, as - to your point - there are some listed at Jim Ellis and GenuineAudiParts.

I ended up ordering a used one from eBay ending in "G" but it should work fine.

Here's the interesting part now - the battery won't hold a charge, and a trickle charger won't keep it charged. I had my battery tested and recharged, and it was testing at 900 cold cranking amps (rated new at 850A). I think that the faulty amp is putting a drain on the battery, but can't confirm that.

I have it hooked up to a more powerful tender/charger and hope that it can keep enough juice in there to let me jump it once more when the amp arrives. It was completely dead the other day after sitting for about 11 hours (and driven for 45 minutes after a jump before) and wouldn't jump. That's when I took the battery to Advanced to get it tested and charged. I went in to buy a new battery but the guy suggested recharging and testing first, and said it looks "at least as good as new". I have another car I can use for now, but the whole thing is sort of frustrating.

My favorite part was that it was dead when I picked it up at the dealer after they did the diagnosis and had to have it jumped there!

Good luck - I will keep you posted on the condition of the amp and (hopefully) verify that everything is working once it's in. It shouldn't be later than next Wednesday.

jasonscott77
02-17-2016, 06:47 AM
Thanks for the update. I've read about failed amps causing all kinds of problems including battery drain. I completely understand your frustration- I feel like I've been reading about this stuff until my eyes bleed. I can't keep all the info straight anymore. Let's get this amp business out of the way so we can get back to enjoying our cars.

skylinrcr01
02-17-2016, 11:13 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/05-2005-Audi-A6-Radio-Amplifier-Amp-Auxilliary-Bose-4F0035223B-OEM-LKQ-/361487953205?hash=item542a5c6d35:g:MyoAAOSwDuJWu~d Z&vxp=mtr

The last letter in the part numbers is typically a revision number. So this should work in your car. Make sure they at least look similar before ordering though.

jasonscott77
02-24-2016, 10:56 AM
maga4-
Did you have a chance to get your replacement amp installed? Of the used amps I've found online, the "G" letter revisions seem to be quite a bit cheaper than the "P" lettered versions. And I've only found 2 of the "P" variety.
I hope it's working out for you.

maga4
02-24-2016, 04:52 PM
maga4-
Did you have a chance to get your replacement amp installed? Of the used amps I've found online, the "G" letter revisions seem to be quite a bit cheaper than the "P" lettered versions. And I've only found 2 of the "P" variety.
I hope it's working out for you.

Jason - apologies for not updating. I had ordered a "G" version hoping it would work, and it turns out the "G" revision is for 2G MMI and the "P" is for 3G MMI, so no luck on that. I ordered a new "P" from Audi Exchange in IL as that was the closest one. The ones I found on eBay (other than the guy selling the speakers too) were all about $1100. The IL dealer sold it to me for $1200 shipped.

So all in, I'll be $168 * 3 for labor, plus $1200 for the amp. I suppose it's at least new, so there is a warranty. The "G" revision I bought has a return policy, so only be out on shipping for that.

I also called Bose to ask about repair and they said they hadn't had any 2010 (3G MMI) in yet. From what I gathered, IF they would repair it, it would only be a couple hundred dollars. I'm kind of regretting not taking my original one to a repair shop around here to see if I could get it fixed first.

As a FYI, unplugging the amp stopped my battery drain, so at least I can drive it now!

If all goes well, I should have the new one installed tomorrow.

There are two other Audi dealers who have a new, sealed amp that I can get the names tomorrow (written down at work) if that helps. For 1/2 the price, I'm thinking the guy with the speakers on eBay may not be a bad deal, but frankly, I was tired of dealing with this.

You making any progress? I'll update tomorrow...

jasonscott77
02-24-2016, 05:50 PM
Thanks for the update.
That's a bummer about the G amps, clearly there is some confusion as all the parts websites claim they work for 06-11 model years. It was possible to have a 10 or 11 A6 w/ Bose and 2G MMI? I suppose I'll be clicking "buy it now" on the amp/speaker package on eBay tonight. And thanks again for the thorough updates, you saved me from buying the wrong amp. That kind of information is what makes this forum so great. Once I get everything installed, I'll update this thread and mine. Hopefully it helps someone in the future.
Best,
J

skylinrcr01
02-24-2016, 07:15 PM
wow, good to know. I though all the parts were interchangeable, but the revision number was just how new it was. TIL.

maga4
02-25-2016, 06:42 AM
^^^ Yeah, that was my impression. I'm pretty sure it's some sort of software code. The MMI turned on fully with the "G" one, but didn't play any sound. Probably just Audi doing Audi things I suppose ha.

For reference, here is the receipt from LKQ. I was tricked by the "AUDI A6 2010" and the "07 - 13 Audi A6 OEM Bose Amplifier" into thinking it would work in my 2010 A6!

https://flic.kr/p/EkuZGa

Getting the new one put in today and will confirm (hopefully) that everything is all good this afternoon.

EDIT - Flickr changed so unable to embed the pic at this time.

maga4
02-25-2016, 12:09 PM
Update: The new "P" amp seemed to fix the problem and we are back up and running. Ended up a total of $1200 for the amp plus $168x3 ($414) for labor for those who are interested.

Hopefully it's good to go for a while!

jasonscott77
02-25-2016, 03:06 PM
Glad it solved your problem, and everything is working again.