PDA

View Full Version : }}}-----> Tire Changes & Wet Weather at Watkins Glen <-----{{{



audisnapr
10-25-2005, 08:35 AM
It was a weekend full of changing tires, sliding around corners and feeling bad for all the other 2-wheel drive cars that ended their day smashing into the guardrails.

Marked001 and I made the 5 hour drive from Brooklyn to Montour Falls, NY to run with EMRA at Watkins Glen (http://www.theglen.com/seating/index.jsp)

Knowing it was supposed to rain the entire weekend made the whole weekend a bit "iffy" to begin with, but we decided it was better to go up and not run due to rain, than to stay home and find out they had perfect weather. If the thought of rain wasn't bad enough, marked001's flat, left passenger's side tire half way to the track really made us question our decision to continue on - mind you these are his summer/track tires. Fortunately, I had my track set in the back of my wagon... so began the weekend of changing tires - move one of his rears to the front and replaced the rears with two of my track wheels (3 wheel changes so far). Needless to say, we pushed on.

Fast forward to sunday... woke up to cloudy skies, wet asphalt, but no rain just yet. Made our way to the track, got ourselves a pit and began our race day ritual of converting our cars to full on race cars - j/k [:D] So now we had a problem. We were one tire short of 2 sets of track tires. On my car was my 18" mud and snow tires and on marked001's car were two summer's up front and two of my track tires in the back. Being the nice guy that I am, I figured that since he already had two of my track tires on, we would just put the other two trackers up front (2 more wheel changes so far - 5 total)

By the time our first session came around, the rain had started. It was a light rain, but the track was nice and wet. We went out and hoped for the best. Marked001 on a full set of track tires and me with my 18", heavy as all hell Pirelli PZero Nero M+S tires. Let me just state for the record, these M+S tires suck on the track [rolleyes] - yeah I know... "duh!"

First session pretty much sucked for me. I was all over the place. Pushing through the turns, sliding my ass end around the corners rally style. Wasn't much fun. Marked001 on the other hand had a great time. Hooked the-fVck-up and more or less had no problems. So after the first session, I decided this was NOT how my day was gonna be. "Marked001, I want my track tires back." He didn't put up a fight, so that was good. So we swapped my snow tires for the track tires (add 8 more tire changes to the tally - 13 total)

Second session was much better for me. Still raining, still wet, but of course now I had my trackers and things were looking up... at least for me. Come to find out at the end of session 2, marked001 pulled off after the 3rd lap with misfire problems. Things were not looking good. Oh, and he didn't like the snow tires either - go figure. We pulled his plugs, things looked OK. Put it all back together and hoped for the best. While we were waiting for third session, we decided to do some more tire changes. Instead of him running snow tires all around, how about put on two of his summer tires in the front (add 2 more to the list - total 15 changes)

Third session was great. The sun began to peak through the clouds from time to time and the track was drying up. Went out and had a blast! 30 minutes of full on racing on a dry track and 40 degree temps. Our turbos and ICr'rs must have been happy as hell. We ran the best times of the day of course. I stomped my last year's times by 7-8 seconds overall. Huge improvement. No more misfiring for Marked001. Not sure what the problem was.

After the third session was what was supposed to be our time trial. Unfortunately it began to rain again. I ran anyway, but marked001 decided not to - and no one blamed him - half the entries decided not to run. The times were super slow and very dangerous. My timed lap was a 2:44 - a good 12 seconds slower than my previously dry laps!

The day was also plagued with several accidents. That I know of, a red vett, a red BMW and a gray mustang ended their day in the walls. Was not a good day for the 2-wheel drive cars [:(]

At the end of our day, we had to tare the cars down, swap another 8 wheels for a grand total of 23 tire changes for the weekend! By that time, we were doing it NASCAR style. Lugs flying off, tires being passed from my car to his, etc. All-in-all it was a good time. For me it was all about improving from last year. For marked001 it was all about experiencing Watkins Glen.

Sorry for the long post guys - without further delay, here are some pics.

the track...
http://public.visualrealms.com/audi2/glen05/glenmap.jpg

photos by marked001...
http://public.visualrealms.com/audi2/glen05/f1c0141c.jpg
http://public.visualrealms.com/audi2/glen05/f1c01127.jpg
http://public.visualrealms.com/audi2/glen05/f1c00e4f.jpg
http://public.visualrealms.com/audi2/glen05/f1c01996.jpg
http://public.visualrealms.com/audi2/glen05/f1c01943.jpg
http://public.visualrealms.com/audi2/glen05/f1c0190a.jpg
http://public.visualrealms.com/audi2/glen05/f1c01465.jpg
http://public.visualrealms.com/audi2/glen05/f1c010ef.jpg

you can see the rest of the photos here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2118562939

TomRitt18944
10-25-2005, 08:57 AM
damn that looks like a blast, I really gotta get to that track or any track for that matter sometime...

let me know next time you go, and even if I cant afford to race, I'd still like to watch and meet you guys, I have a lot to learn

Yuikio
10-25-2005, 09:47 AM
Your car looks so badass with that splitter. Sounds like you had a good time even though the track was wet.
I'd love to start tracking my car, but Second Creek, the only track in the state, closes down due to complaints from nearby residents this week. [:(]

audisnapr
10-25-2005, 12:28 PM
TomRitt18944 :: what, do we have to beat you guys over the head with a jackstand to get you guys to come out? we ALWAYS let everyone know in advance we are going. Next year then. Get out there and have some fun. Even if you don't run, we are always looking for someone to take photos. I'll supply the camera, you supply the shutter finger.

Yuikio :: yeah, I had my doubts, but the splitter and ducts held up great.

Kruat
10-25-2005, 12:37 PM
Damint, I need to get back into track days..... It sooo much fun.

TomRitt18944
10-25-2005, 12:53 PM
Ahahha good deal! Dunno how I missed it, car prolly wasnt ready anyways

bitterchild
10-25-2005, 01:09 PM
how much is that and how far from nyc?

btw, seems the aura of being "fawked" has shifter to marked001. for shame.

LateraLex
10-25-2005, 01:09 PM
That course looks awesome.

onemoremile
10-25-2005, 02:57 PM
wow. aren't track days fun???

so why didn't you guys both run track tires in the front and snows in the rear? you could have had a traction challenged retard race. it would have been stupid but it would have been fun.

audisnapr
10-25-2005, 04:13 PM
bitterchild :: a lot of $$ and far - 250+ miles from Brooklyn

onemoremile :: mostly because I'm a nice guy, but not that nice. Actually, no two sets of wheels were the same size circumference. Marked001's summer/track wheels are 18's w/ 225-35's I believe. My winter/snow wheels are 18's w/ 235-40's (I think). And my track wheels are 17's w/ 225-45's or something like that. Nothing really matched up at all.

ScottyB 1.8T
10-25-2005, 07:00 PM
rain or not, it looks like you guys had an awesome time! glad to hear you came away from a damp track unscathed too, since 2 of my friends went to VIR the same weekend in the same weather and suffered some battle damage [:(]

great pics and writeup as usual. bling on!

MKGIY
10-26-2005, 06:46 AM
Nice pics guys.

Mike

dackler
10-26-2005, 08:01 AM
looks like you had a blast.
i grew up just outside of watkins glen, and now live only an hour from there :)

audisnapr
10-26-2005, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by ScottyB 1.8T
rain or not, it looks like you guys had an awesome time! glad to hear you came away from a damp track unscathed too, since 2 of my friends went to VIR the same weekend in the same weather and suffered some battle damage [:(]

great pics and writeup as usual. bling on!

thanks scott.... yeah, it was sad to see the cars being towed back to the pits. Reality really hits home when you see that it can happen to anyone, experienced or not.

Both marked001 and I both had a few scary moments. My worst came during the timed event. The car felt hooked up all throughout until the entry of the boot and the rear just let go. I was completely sideways for several seconds trying to get her straightened up. Finally hooked up and away I went - with a much higher pulse rate of course [eek]

onemoremile
10-27-2005, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by audisnapr
yeah, it was sad to see the cars being towed back to the pits. Reality really hits home when you see that it can happen to anyone, experienced or not.


the guys that trailer their cars to the track will attest to that. they say that knowing you'll get home is worth 2 seconds a lap.

audisnapr
10-27-2005, 08:18 AM
^^^ so true - that and knowing its not your only means of transportation when you do get home

marked001
10-27-2005, 08:20 AM
..and that you (me) still dont owe a whole bunch of $$ on it [;)]

B5T28
10-27-2005, 02:20 PM
I love the glen, good to see you had some fun. I was there at the begining of the summer. Prolly would have gone many more times but the #3 rod bearing froze up and sent the rod down through the oil pan.... on that note anyone have any 944/968 porsche motors kicking around?

bitterchild
10-27-2005, 06:03 PM
gt28rs w/ a tial ext wg?

WhippeD
10-27-2005, 09:49 PM
sorry for the offtopic..
but, snapr..what have you done to your suspension system so far..i was just wondering...

audisnapr
10-28-2005, 07:09 AM
Not off topic WhippeD at all - I post these threads to get you guys more interested in track events - so I'm happy to share any setup info.

For now, I'm running Bilsteins w/ H&R sport springs. But what really makes a huge difference is the HSport sways, front and rear. Without the HSports, I guarantee I'd be running much slower times. They make up for the semi-soft "sport" springs in so many ways.

If you guys haven't already checked out the Motorsports & Racing forum, drop in there from time to time. Marc (Millerracer) is the moderator there and has a ton of experience on the track. If you ever have any setup questions, post so we can all hear Marc and other's feedback. I have a car setup thread (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68803) up there right now. Take a look.

marked001
10-28-2005, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by audisnapr
Without the HSports, I guarantee I'd be running much slower times.

i.e. my times [:D]

94jedi
10-28-2005, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by marked001
i.e. my times [:D]

Hey Jason, I'm surprised your extra power doesn't make up for the suspension. For example, on the straights. Is Joe really that much better than you or is it your driving skill that holds you back?!?!?

I guess I can trash talk until I go out there w/ you guys and get smoked by you on your bicycle.

hhahaahaha!
[race]

bitterchild
10-28-2005, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by 94jedi


I guess I can trash talk until I go out there w/ you guys and get smoked by you on your bicycle.

hhahaahaha!
[race]

Give me a 30hp engine on that cycle and I'll give you guys a run for your money ;)

go ped

audisnapr
10-28-2005, 08:52 AM
jason is actually a really good driver - with a properly set up, full on race car, he might be able to catch me [:D]

seriously though, I think he and I both found out real quick that although power is good, 90%+ of the track is usually not straights, but turns. So having power seems to be less important in the beginning if your car is not set up to handle that power in the corners. If 90% of the time, my car is doing better on the track (ie: corners), that only leave 10% of the time for his car to catch up.

There are so many other factors that go into this whole deal. Tires for one are huge. This was never more apparent than this last weekend. Even if jason's car was able to make up the distance on the straights, his tires, brakes, and suspension would prevent him from entering the corners at the speeds he could attain on the straights.

So first off, he probably isn't putting all the power down on the straights as he could because he knows the basic rules... first off, he'll have to brake way sooner than I, so that cuts down the straight away distance that he is on the accel and that he has to catch up.

Not only does he have to brake sooner, he may even have to brake longer and enter the corners slower than me for two reasons. First, his tires may not be able to handle the same speeds into the corners that mine can. Second, without aftermarket sway bars, he most likely has more body roll than I do, so not only are his tires not up to the high speeds in the corners, they probably don't have the same contact area with the asphalt as a car that is more planted.

At that point, his car is going slower than my car through the turn. He def has more power coming out of the turn, but again, only if his tires and suspension can put that power down.

Then add into the mix the fact that his car is his ride home and he hasn't paid it off yet, so like onemoremile said... knowing you are getting home no matter what will add 2 seconds to every lap. My car is paid off, so I completely lose it out there and think I'm a race-car driver and just go balls out [drive]

marked001
10-28-2005, 08:56 AM
plus....i'm a scaredy [:)]

onemoremile
10-28-2005, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by 94jedi
Hey Jason, I'm surprised your extra power doesn't make up for the suspension. For example, on the straights. Is Joe really that much better than you or is it your driving skill that holds you back?!?!?

I guess I can trash talk until I go out there w/ you guys and get smoked by you on your bicycle.

hhahaahaha!
[race]


with a heat soaked K04 setup boosting a whopping 5-7 psi i got the "point to pass" from a 300whp 2.3 liter mirage (early evo).

he had full coilovers, wilwoods, azenis, more experience, and less weight.

i had track tires.
i also had coilovers, brakes, h-sport sways, and the desire to catch that sucker. he would walk away on the two linked straights and it would take me half a lap to catch up with him. i could have pushed him off the track in the twisty section.

the guy in the mirage was a really nice guy. he was about 50 and this was his empty nest hobby. his car was set up very nicely.

tires are critical. don't ever underestimate them. all the other stuff like suspension, alignment settings, brakes, motive power, etc. depend on the tires.

put an enzo on a skinny set of blizzaks and i'll give it a run for it's money.

WhippeD
10-28-2005, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by audisnapr
Not off topic WhippeD at all - I post these threads to get you guys more interested in track events - so I'm happy to share any setup info.
and as far as bushings, control arms, balljoints, etc... are they stock?
because i have weitec coilovers installed, and lately my suspension (mainly the front end) have been feeling "soft" and not as good as it was anymore.
i have the neuspeed rear sway but none in the front. does the front sway really makes a big difference like the rear?

marked001
10-28-2005, 02:24 PM
here's a quick vid of me losing it in the boot...hated this damn corner....the all season tires werent loving the wet concrete [:D]

http://public.visualrealms.com/audi2/jason02.mov

audisnapr
10-28-2005, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by WhippeD
and as far as bushings, control arms, balljoints, etc... are they stock?
because i have weitec coilovers installed, and lately my suspension (mainly the front end) have been feeling "soft" and not as good as it was anymore.
i have the neuspeed rear sway but none in the front. does the front sway really makes a big difference like the rear?

yeah, I'm running all stock except for the shocks and sways. I do eventually want to pick up either the CPP control arm kit or the adjustable bushing for camber adjustability. Just haven't decided on which just yet. Have other things in line first I guess.

As far as the front sway goes, I would say it helps a lot on the track. But to be honest, I have no basis for that comment. I've never run anything but HSport all around on the track. But my guess is that a bigger front will help a lot from the center through the exit of a turn... and even the entry.

AB18
10-28-2005, 08:52 PM
audisnapr, Im thinking of doing this aswell. Mind sharing what a track day like this runs you?

CollarDown
10-28-2005, 09:47 PM
That track is a lot of fun. I drove a 1998 Corvette on it for a few laps. I live only about 1 hour away from the track and they have a lot of good events there. The best one was a Ferrari Car Club race with about 15 to 20 new Ferraris running the track about 3 years ago. Until one guy in a 360 Modena hit the wall and smashed the back end, the he said,"It's alright it won't be too much to fix..." riiiight...

audisnapr
10-29-2005, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by AB18
audisnapr, Im thinking of doing this aswell. Mind sharing what a track day like this runs you?

track day prices range depending on the club you run with, the track you are running on, and the number of days you are running. I've seen prices range for a 1-day event from $130-175 and a 2-day somewhere in the range of $225 (1-day events are more common though). With those prices, running 3 times a years works well for me... of course, I wish I could run more, but...

onemoremile
10-29-2005, 09:18 PM
my experiences have been about the same. an open session test and tune is $50 and lasts from 5pm to dusk during the summer. my last couple of track days were $125 and $150. those were both single day events with about 100 miles worth of track time.

be sure to get in the beginner group the first time or two. even expert drivers get in beginner groups at unfamiliar tracks. you get much more time on track, an instructor helps you learn the line, and you usually get to ride along for a session or two in the expert's car.