2.7t Bank 1 misfire only w/ no obvious cause

[86franklin]

Sorry for the wall of text but I could use some help if you don't mind taking a read.

I have a 01 2.7t that I did the timing belt and chain tensioners on. The car runs but very rough. I used the crank locking tool and cam locking tool to do the timing belt. So I know the initial crank to exhaust cam timing is dead on. The cam chain timing seems to be on with sixteen rollers from one cam to the next. I have checked compression on all cylinders. All with 150+ psi with just three revolutions. Brand new plugs.

I initially was only scanning with a Bluetooth adapter with torque on my phone. It only reported p0300 (random misfire). I checked the time dozens of times because of it but it always was on. So I bought the xtool vag401 to see of the was any codes the generic was not picking up. Turned out it pick up misfires only on bank 1. Cylinders 1,2,3 (passenger side). I no longer have icms so that cannot be a cause and have checked the wiring for breaks with no obvious breaks and continuity. There is no other codes other than the random misfire and cylinder 1,2,3 codes. I have a boost guage installed and at idle the vacuum is fluctuating between 8-10 inhg instead of an ~20 inhg how it should. Did a boost leak test up to 10psi with no leaks. Sprayed starting fluid on all vacuum hoses, fuel inj., tbb, boost hoses, everything with no dip if idle speed.

Right now I'm at a loss and could use some suggestions for something I may have overlooked or something to look for with the scan tool.

[a4kamila6]

Hmm, maybe you swapped the tensioner on accident? http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/20/913525bef8805f6950f15c340a1693d1.jpg

Check part numbers. Make sure the connection is good for bank 1 where ICM's used to be. When i did icm delete and coil conversion, started her up and had same problem. Checked icm connections, one wasnt pushed in fully. Problem solved for me. I think its probably the connection cause if tensioners were swapped you would probably misfire on both banks.



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[86franklin]

Hmm, maybe you swapped the tensioner on accident? http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/20/913525bef8805f6950f15c340a1693d1.jpg

Check part numbers. Make sure the connection is good for bank 1 where ICM's used to be. When i did icm delete and coil conversion, started her up and had same problem. Checked icm connections, one wasnt pushed in fully. Problem solved for me. I think its probably the connection cause if tensioners were swapped you would probably misfire on both banks.



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I am fairly positive I didn't switch them as I did one head at a time but who knows I'll check. Also I had done the coil conversion over 2 years ago. I'll have to check continuity again while moving wire to see if it is opening up. Would just misfires cause the messed up vacuum reading though? Thanks for the reply I've been stuck on this for about two weeks.

[a4kamila6]

You make a good point about the vacuum. Do a vacuum smoke test. Something is not right though for sure. Faulty check valve or faulty component in vacuum system? Im boggled.


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[86franklin]

You make a good point about the vacuum. Do a vacuum smoke test. Something is not right though for sure. Faulty check valve or faulty component in vacuum system? Im boggled.


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Possibility just which one haha. I do have the crank case a heads venting to atmosphere with the appropriate openings plugged because thought the check valve in that system could have been causing it. But it was not. This was before I knew it was only bank one misfiring.

[86franklin]

So I was looking at measuring block 090 which is continuous camshaft adjustment. The adjustment on bank 1 stays at 99* while bank 2 started at 0* and then went to 21* and stayed while at idle. I also checked out 015 active misfires on bank 1 and the pretty much continued to rise. While bank 2 registered none on block 016. From what it looks like the cam adjuster isnt doing anything. And causing the misfires. Does that sound plausible?

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[a4kamila6]

Is it possible the adjuster is a dud? I bet you checked but make sure they tensioners are plugged up. That usually helps. One guy forgot to plug him up after changing them.


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[86franklin]

That was the first thing i checked when I realized the reading wasn't changing. It was plugged in however. Man this is annoying haha. It decided to snow today too:) my Carb'd cabby isn't enjoying it very much though. I need my quattro! haha. Does anyone know if there is a way to test the solenoid on the camshaft adjuster?

[86franklin]

Well I swapped the solenoid from the other side and nothing changed so I counted the rollers again, its seems right but slightly different from the image from rosstech.
My count and drawing of the markings and rollers.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/21/b9fab829e75156b956071130a42199bf.jpg
The intake cam notch
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/21/7daa7f074ebe4e4a8f217b417dc2836a.jpg
The exhaust can notch
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/21/beb98d424c72297174f5e482d472f897.jpg
And a picture with not so great perspective on counting the rollers.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/21/693538ee990367ba1cee39fbbcb7dd54.jpg

[86franklin]

So I believe I recalled wrong because I looked and the cam adjustment block again and passenger side stayed at 99 while driver side idled around -1 to 0 and would advance to 20 with slight revs. So I tried swapping the cam position sensor and that did nothing. So I pulled the valve cover once again and attempted to depress the tensioner by hand and with the tool. I had a very tough time moving the side that can't be removed from the tensioner. I had another tensioner lying around that moved much more freely and swapped that in. But yet again no change.

[suth31]

From my experience, I have never seen those kw numbers go to 99. I though they maxxed out in the 20's some where. From my previously documented issues like this, my numbers for one bank was like 20-22*kw. And the timing marks were visually off by just a few hairs (I assumed I skipped a tooth at one point or PO's mechanic did a bad job on the timing belt job). I would guess you are having a communication error with the tensioner. If the solenoid was a dud, you would get an error for that - ask me how I know. Without search, I remember reading someplace that the tensioner plug is the same as another plug in the same area, I believe it is up on the intake manifold - you may have swapped plugs by accident, it happens. I have just never seen a 99*kw in that block before. And my timing was off. Yours is not. You tried swapping the solenoid, and the tensioner itself. I would make sure you have the right plug on it, since you had everything off multiple times, and crap happens.

[86franklin]

Hey thanks for responding! I was thinking the same thing but I checked continuity from the tensioner plug back to the ecu plug and all is well unfortunately. I also rung out the cam position sensor plug too. I definitely think something is wrong electronically. I mean mechanically just doesn't make sense. Any idea what ecu looks for to set the tensioner? I guess I could just read the funktionsrahmen or try to. I did delete the rear o2 sensors and SAI but from my understanding those do not influence the maps on the ecu once warmed up.

From my experience, I have never seen those kw numbers go to 99. I though they maxxed out in the 20's some where. From my previously documented issues like this, my numbers for one bank was like 20-22*kw. And the timing marks were visually off by just a few hairs (I assumed I skipped a tooth at one point or PO's mechanic did a bad job on the timing belt job). I would guess you are having a communication error with the tensioner. If the solenoid was a dud, you would get an error for that - ask me how I know. Without search, I remember reading someplace that the tensioner plug is the same as another plug in the same area, I believe it is up on the intake manifold - you may have swapped plugs by accident, it happens. I have just never seen a 99*kw in that block before. And my timing was off. Yours is not. You tried swapping the solenoid, and the tensioner itself. I would make sure you have the right plug on it, since you had everything off multiple times, and crap happens.

[SteveKen]

When you had the tensioner out to swap it, did you look at the oil hole that supplies the tensioner?

You used a ton of silicone sealant and I've heard of sealant blocking the single oil passage that supplies the tensioner.

Recheck your timing as well.

Did you have any issues before you did the work?

[86franklin]

When you had the tensioner out to swap it, did you look at the oil hole that supplies the tensioner?

You used a ton of silicone sealant and I've heard of sealant blocking the single oil passage that supplies the tensioner.

Recheck your timing as well.

Did you have any issues before you did the work?
Yes and i didn't apply any sealant to the tensioner gasket as it comes pre-applied. I've literally checked the timing upwards of twenty times, broke exhaust pulleys lose and all. The only thing that could have happened, would be if the sprocket has slipped on the intake cam but I have an extra set of cams that show that it hasn't unless that cam as well had slipped the same amount. I am still thinking it is electrical some how. It being pegged at 99 doesn't make sense.

[Canyon]

Quadruple check that you didn't smash one of the cam timing tabs for the cam bar onto the camshaft, hence making your timing wrong. Pull them both all the way off the end of the cams and check them. You can't see it if you just break them loose. It's either that or adjusters are on the wrong banks.

[86franklin]

Quadruple check that you didn't smash one of the cam timing tabs for the cam bar onto the camshaft, hence making your timing wrong. Pull them both all the way off the end of the cams and check them. You can't see it if you just break them loose. It's either that or adjusters are on the wrong banks.
I didn't think about that. But wouldn't that be visible on the exhaust cam notch for phasing the cams when the engine is at tdc? I will check none the less. Also the tensioner can't be on the wrong head. Each head was done one at a time.

[Canyon]

I didn't think about that. But wouldn't that be visible on the exhaust cam notch for phasing the cams when the engine is at tdc? I will check none the less. Also the tensioner can't be on the wrong head. Each head was done one at a time.

You can pull the bolt all the way out and remove the washer to see if there's anything obvious. I would also recommend pulling that lobe off just to be sure.

[86franklin]

You can pull the bolt all the way out and remove the washer to see if there's anything obvious. I would also recommend pulling that lobe off just to be sure.
I'm understand what you are saying. Im saying wouldn't the cam timing marks under the valve covers be off then while the crank is at top dead center? I mean I will still check the condition of the lobe on the belt pulley side because that didn't even occur to me that it could happen. Also I found this in the funktionsrahmen but could use some help deciphering if you guys are feeling generous if not give me several days to sort some of it haha.

Edit: I just realized that those screenshots uploaded blurry so I will host them on another site tomorrow. Pages are 843 and 844 if you have the funktionsrahmen downloaded yourself.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/26/e6266af2234077639ec86f5fee60fec3.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/26/9adf80515ddc36a3a9b63cf61cc98d1c.jpg

[86franklin]

Figured I'd update this since I figured it out a while ago. Passenger side was 180° off. I would have know this if I would have bought a cam locking bar instead of making one. Stupid mistake on my part not checking which orientation the front lobes go. Also manage to flip the n80 and #3 injector plug. Stupid that they put the same plug so close to the same location. Anyway runs like a champ now. Thanks for those who gave input.