Some exciting brake pad options for the Q5 Brembo BBK retrofit...

[drewgold]

I came across THIS (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/613488-OEM-Q5-Brembo-Brake-Upgrade-Review) thread about retrofitting the Q5 Brembo calipers to B7 and B8 A4/S4's and have since picked up a set of Brembo Q5 calipers for my B7 A4. I was not thrilled about the limited pad options so did some research similar to what was found by another forum member through the Pagid site and the thread quoted below:


Found this in the S4 thread; thought I would share.


I have been following this thread with a lot of interest, so I spoke at some length with Pagid US. Pagid offers stock/street pads with the wear sensors for this caliper. That pad shape is T2212 or T2321, see this link: Q5 Brembo 4 piston caliper Stock or Street Brake Pads

The gent I spoke to confirmed that they do offer the E2487 as a race pad option. This pad does not have wear sensors, but that isn't really an issue for the track. SO, you can get great race pads from Pagid for these calipers...but wait, there's more...

On Pagid's page for this pad shape, they mention all the other cars that take this pad shape as well, which is a pretty healthy list of performance cars.

Check it out:
Pagid 2487

REF NO. THICKNESS MAKE MODEL YEAR FRONT REAR
2487 15.4 mm Aston Martin DB 9 04 → X
2487 15.4 mm Aston Martin Vantage V8 GT4 ProDrive [race car] 12 → X
2487 15.4 mm Audi TT RS 2.5 Quattro 09 → X
2487 15.4 mm Cadillac CTS-V (4 piston front caliper) 03 → 09 X
2487 15.4 mm Chevrolet Corvette Brembo non ceramic 09 → X
2487 15.4 mm Chevrolet Camaro SS 09 → X
2487 15.4 mm Ford GT 04 → 06 X X
2487 15.4 mm Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 07 → X
2487 15.4 mm Ford Mustang Boss 302 12 → X
2487 15.4 mm Honda (Acura) Acura TL 04 → X
2487 15.4 mm Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 track 10 → X
2487 15.4 mm Mitsubishi Lancer Evo V - Evo IX 98 → 06 X
2487 15.4 mm Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X 07 → X
2487 15.4 mm Subaru STI 03 → X
2487 15.4 mm Volvo S60 Turbo R Brembo brakes 03 → X
2487 15.4 mm Volvo V70 R 2.5T Brembo brakes 03 → X
2487 15.4 mm Audi A3 RS3 Quattro 11 → X
2487 15.4 mm Dodge Viper SRT TA (time attack) 14 → X X

The question I have is...if you replace the rotors with some nice 2 piece floaters with directional vanes, and maybe take off your dust shields, and install the Macan air scoops, would they hold up for track days?

If the answer is yes, then we have a very affordable BBK, with pretty much unlimited pad selection.


I checked out the Brembo site and their pad specs. The Brembo site doesn't list pads for the Q5 Brembo calipers (Which is ironic because the calipers are brembo and the OEM pads are actually marked with the Brembo logo)??
Knowing that the pads for the TTRS/RS3 were virtually the same as the Q5 Brembos, (ECS also has some pads listed for both the Q5 Brembos and the TTRS calipers) I looked up the Brembo listing for the RS3 pads and then scanned through their list of pads looking for other vehicles that use the same part #. Waaaayyyy at the bottom of the list was the 2010 Gen 2 VW Touareg. Seems that 330mm Brembo 4 piston calipers were an option on these and that the pads are the same part # as the RS3. This opens up a whole host of options.

The Brembo pad part # is 07.B314.83 these pads accept wear sensors and are the same part number as Brembo lists for the RS3/TTRS.

I can also confirm that many of these part numbers cross reference with the cars listed above. The Aston Martin DB9 uses these pads on the rear as well as some models of Corvette.

If you cross-reference the Toureg fitment for pads there are a number of options, including:

Pagid: 1977740
EBC Red: DP31908c
Hawk HPS: HB632F.586,
And a whole host of track pads from Hawk: HB632N.586, HB632Z.586, HB632B.586

There are loads of others as well and these pads all appear to have the notch for the wear sensors.

The Caveat is that the pad dimensions APPEAR to be the same or very close but there is some variation, often by only a few tenths of a millimeter. The main difference being in the pad thickness which could mean that some pads are too thick.

Centric lists their specific pads for the Q5 Brembos as measuring 131.8mm wide x 77.5mm high x 15.8mm thick
The Brembo RS3/TTRS/Touareg pads are listed as: 131.6mm wide x 77.3mm high x 17.1mm thick
Hawk lists their Touareg pads as: 131mm wide x 77mm high x 15mm thick (These numbers seem rounded)

I still need to get a set of calipers and measure the OEM pads that came with my Q5 calipers but I may bite the bullet and just buy a set of Hawk pads for the Touareg and see if they are indeed compatible.

In looking through pages of pad shapes and sizes for Brembo calipers, I also just discovered that the 2010 (And probably other years) Subaru WRX STi also has the same pad size and shape as the Q5 Brembo pads however these pads don't include a notch for the wear sensor. It does look like they'll fit though and offers another huge selection of pads possibilities.

I'll do some more research but looking promising for these calipers!!

Here are pad diagrams from a few manufacturers for comparison:

Centric direct replacement pads for Q5 Brembo Calipers:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/13/dc0cdd289199d37a41e06f8dd67ec4ee.jpg

Brembo RS3/TTRS/Touareg pads:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/13/aee1913d5c6b059cfd41c167ab644d2c.jpg

Hawk Touareg (And apparently Corvette) pads:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/13/7710baf1d429018a9db6f55bd081e67a.jpg

And the Brembo Subaru WRX STI pads:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/13/89923b0c733da5b7a7c97160f296e21c.jpg

[drewgold]

For the interest of anyone with this setup, I was able to track down a set of WRX STI pads from a NASIOC forum member who was kind enough to send me an old set.
In comparing the pads side by side they are virtually identical, only major difference is that the Subaru pads don't accommodate a wear sensor.

As far as size goes, the backs are identical width and height-wise. The Subaru pads have a slightly larger hub radius cutout but barely. I test fitted them in my calipers and they seem to fit perfectly. Being as these pads are super worn, I can't road test them but I don't see any reason why they won't work. This opens up a huge list of pad options for these calipers!!

Pads were from a 2010 Subaru Impreza WRX STI.
OEM pads on top in pics and STI pads on the bottom:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/30436f91ecb9e9606d91bd7807b683ad.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/3ead68cfe4cf91de77ad7147115def36.jpg


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[CLEANA3]

Nice info

[Zdrajca]

Drewgold, this is awesome. I came across the exact same issue as you when i upgraded to the same calipers on my B6 A4. I just could not find any Hawk pads that fit. If you do have any more models that fit these pads then please let me know. I'll get with my mechanic and give them the specs for the pads, and see what they can fine. I wasn't happy with the Textar that they put on, since that's all they could get that day, and the dealer charged me 150 for the front set only. Thank you for the post.

[AustinQuattro]

Reviving this...has anybody verified if the pads for the STI/Vette/CTS-V/etc. will work? I don't have wear sensors with my PosiQuiet pads anyhow...

[AustinQuattro]

Talked to Hawk. Apparently a direct pad option will be available for the Q5 Brembos in the near future (couple months). No word on whether that will be a different pad, or just adding the HB453B.585 to the list. That pad will, however, work apparently. So beyond just seeing it in this thread above as a possible option, I was made aware that others are using the same pad with OEM fit results. I ordered them this morning and will have them on by Wednesday evening, if anyone is interested. I'll post my impressions here and on the OEM Q5 Brembo Brake Upgrade Review thread.

[Saleen S7 TT]

Talked to Hawk. Apparently a direct pad option will be available for the Q5 Brembos in the near future (couple months). No word on whether that will be a different pad, or just adding the HB453B.585 to the list. That pad will, however, work apparently. So beyond just seeing it in this thread above as a possible option, I was made aware that others are using the same pad with OEM fit results. I ordered them this morning and will have them on by Wednesday evening, if anyone is interested. I'll post my impressions here and on the OEM Q5 Brembo Brake Upgrade Review thread.

Did the Hawk pad options ever happen?

[Gberg888]

Thank you Thank you!

Just went to the track with EBC yellow stuff for my B8 S4 and roasted them... So I will need new pads anyways! This gives me great Hope for pad options!

[Matthew_VA]

I believe so, it looks like these are it. Part # is HB806B.624

https://i.imgur.com/hblZeOM.png


Did the Hawk pad options ever happen?

[Mr. Sneaky]

Just an Fyi. Not sure if a cheaper option, but A6 2016-17 Front brake pads fit the calipers. With brake sensor.

[Diemarco]

The 3.0T A6?

[techracer]

Anyone have a source for good deals on the Q5 calipers? Btw what year Q5 do we use?

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[aztechian]

I just bought macan calipers for $230/ea from https://www.sonnenporscheoemparts.com


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[stefv6tdi]

Hi all,

I read every single page about the brembo 4 pot 345mm upgrade. Bought the calipers (dont know the exact part numbers of the calipers). I’ve found that for the 345mm calipers there were two different brake pads.

8R0 698 151 L
8R0 698 151 T

The problem is, I can’t see a difference between those two pads.
Perhabs brembo got 3 pads that should work;
P85 122
P85 123
P85 133
When I checked the website of ECS tuning the same pads are for the 2.0T (320mm), 3.0T (345mm), 3.0TDI (345mm).

Can someone help me out which OEM number reference will fit the calipers?

Greeting from the Netherlands.

[JS154]

Hi All,
I am new-ish to Audis but am a fairly expereinced BMW road racer with SCCA.

There has been a lot of good info shared here about brakes, pads, fluids, cooling etc. I did a big writeup a couple years ago on the B8 FB page about brake cololing. Ill see if I can link/post it here.

I raced on the follwing: Pagid RS, Carbotech, Hawk, Endless, and used a number of others on track in students cars or instructing, or testing.
Here's what Ive learned:

Brake cooling. You gotta do this first. any extra cool air you can get to the rotors will help. Some facts I learned from working with the engineers at Pagid RS: 80% of brake cooling come from air over the rotor face, the remaining 20% is split between air going through the vanes internally and heat absorbed by the pads. You actuall need the backing plates in place for it to work best, and ideally they should be not more than a quarter inch from the rotor face, get the air to the center, and it will run over the face (the friction surface where the pad meets the rotor) and thats how you keep them cool.

VW Phaeton backing plates, run side-switched and upside down work great. you need the air scoops too. It will all be in my brake cooling post.

PADS.
Pagis RS29 are great track racing/endurance pads, but if you;re running on R-compound tires and turning fast laps, even they will not be up to task. Endless N35S can handle the heat and repeated abuse. AS a matter of fact I am right now in the process of getting Endless USA to make me a coule sets of N35S compound on the D1663 (Q5 Brembo) backing plates. They arent cheap, at $390 a set, but they WORK. Endless supplies pads for JGTC, WRC, WTCC and has done some brake pads for F1 even.


https://endless-sport.co.jp/products/brake_pad/PDF/BrakePad/Pad_Shape_PDF/EIP/EIP265.pdf

Carbotech. Good race pads, but they have low initial bite and require high pedal effort.
HAWK DTC - no thanks, dont like the grabby feel and on/off release characteristics.

EBC. Oh HELL NO. Use these on track and you are taking a risk that is not wise. they are NOT a track pad. Not their Yellow. Green stuff? 25 year old street low dust technology. Red STuff? a quiet street pad. DO NOT use either of these on track. Yellow STuff? Nope. maybe for a spirited road/canyon carving drive but I would not ever use EBC on track.

G-Loc. They will make you whatever you want, same as Porterfiled will make you what you want in their compound or others like Performance friction.

For the majority of track drivers here (TrackNight, HPDE, HOD, AUdi /BMW club etc) The Pagid RS29 is ging to be the best bet that is truly a track race pad and is fairly readily available. If you are running R-compound tires, or at fast tracks that are hard on brakes (Daytona, Road America, Watkins Glen) you will want the N35S.

FLUIDS. there were some great recommendations but the reality is - any of the RBFs are more than sufficient. MoTul, Castrol, PagidRS, pretty much and SRF/RBF is plenmty capable. For the overwhelming majority of drivers though, I would just run Ate Typ200. Its a good race fluid that can handle the heat just fine, especially for HPDE, TrackNight, etc.

CALIPERS: If your rotor is a 345 mm rotor and you switch from the stock single piston sliding caliper the the Q5 Brembo 4pot you get the following: lower unsprung weight for better shock control, a stiffer caliper and more even pad application pressure so less pad distortion, and higher clamping force. What you DO NOT GET: higher braking capability, since you have not changed the effective lever arm - the rotor diameter is still 345mm. AS someone mentioned, its not a BBK, its a BCK. But is most certainly an improvement

BUT YOU HAVE TO SOLVE THE BRAKE COOLING FIRST!

[JS154]

BRAKE COOLING FOR TRACK

FarceBook AUdi S4 B8 B8.5 Network page.

Final notes: after running this setup with the aluminum extenders, I IR'd the rotor face temps inside and out, and the inner face and outer faces were within 20 degrees of each other, on both sides. In paddock post session rotor temps were in the 745 degree F range.

IT WORKS>

https://www.facebook.com/groups/137307703025636/permalink/1481363021953424/?__cft__[0]=AZVbpLmkbPEwa6BK9fD25CQ9KOu7Ux43jTUAvLahJGsvLUOCH c03yUkLpm9wZLtb_jGpwcFPlFYHsiT0daMl3Fjgy3jQf5En8MQ o2W0uv_PdONaJ9lLG9MmrSOtLei6-pFEUYWsLtH9CIQrW3TpbWP28&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

[Redryuu]

Hi All,
I am new-ish to Audis but am a fairly expereinced BMW road racer with SCCA.

There has been a lot of good info shared here about brakes, pads, fluids, cooling etc. I did a big writeup a couple years ago on the B8 FB page about brake cololing. Ill see if I can link/post it here.

I raced on the follwing: Pagid RS, Carbotech, Hawk, Endless, and used a number of others on track in students cars or instructing, or testing.
Here's what Ive learned:

Brake cooling. You gotta do this first. any extra cool air you can get to the rotors will help. Some facts I learned from working with the engineers at Pagid RS: 80% of brake cooling come from air over the rotor face, the remaining 20% is split between air going through the vanes internally and heat absorbed by the pads. You actuall need the backing plates in place for it to work best, and ideally they should be not more than a quarter inch from the rotor face, get the air to the center, and it will run over the face (the friction surface where the pad meets the rotor) and thats how you keep them cool.

VW Phaeton backing plates, run side-switched and upside down work great. you need the air scoops too. It will all be in my brake cooling post.

PADS.
Pagis RS29 are great track racing/endurance pads, but if you;re running on R-compound tires and turning fast laps, even they will not be up to task. Endless N35S can handle the heat and repeated abuse. AS a matter of fact I am right now in the process of getting Endless USA to make me a coule sets of N35S compound on the D1663 (Q5 Brembo) backing plates. They arent cheap, at $390 a set, but they WORK. Endless supplies pads for JGTC, WRC, WTCC and has done some brake pads for F1 even.


https://endless-sport.co.jp/products/brake_pad/PDF/BrakePad/Pad_Shape_PDF/EIP/EIP265.pdf

Carbotech. Good race pads, but they have low initial bite and require high pedal effort.
HAWK DTC - no thanks, dont like the grabby feel and on/off release characteristics.

EBC. Oh HELL NO. Use these on track and you are taking a risk that is not wise. they are NOT a track pad. Not their Yellow. Green stuff? 25 year old street low dust technology. Red STuff? a quiet street pad. DO NOT use either of these on track. Yellow STuff? Nope. maybe for a spirited road/canyon carving drive but I would not ever use EBC on track.

G-Loc. They will make you whatever you want, same as Porterfiled will make you what you want in their compound or others like Performance friction.

For the majority of track drivers here (TrackNight, HPDE, HOD, AUdi /BMW club etc) The Pagid RS29 is ging to be the best bet that is truly a track race pad and is fairly readily available. If you are running R-compound tires, or at fast tracks that are hard on brakes (Daytona, Road America, Watkins Glen) you will want the N35S.

FLUIDS. there were some great recommendations but the reality is - any of the RBFs are more than sufficient. MoTul, Castrol, PagidRS, pretty much and SRF/RBF is plenmty capable. For the overwhelming majority of drivers though, I would just run Ate Typ200. Its a good race fluid that can handle the heat just fine, especially for HPDE, TrackNight, etc.

CALIPERS: If your rotor is a 345 mm rotor and you switch from the stock single piston sliding caliper the the Q5 Brembo 4pot you get the following: lower unsprung weight for better shock control, a stiffer caliper and more even pad application pressure so less pad distortion, and higher clamping force. What you DO NOT GET: higher braking capability, since you have not changed the effective lever arm - the rotor diameter is still 345mm. AS someone mentioned, its not a BBK, its a BCK. But is most certainly an improvement

BUT YOU HAVE TO SOLVE THE BRAKE COOLING FIRST!

You sound mental my dude

[Jayz691]

Ok, what about most of us that go from stock 320mm rotors, to 345mm with the 4pot Macan calipers?? My brakes are better in so many ways, than my stock a4 brakes. Rem, this is a b7 a4 thread, so stock is single piston, 320mm(max, depending on model), sliding calipers.

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