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View Full Version : Driving w/o POWER STEERING



b5a4erik
09-18-2015, 08:47 PM
Hey all,

Long story short:

My power steering (PS) hose is busted, all the fluid is gone and I have no PS. [:|]

That being said:

What are the effects on my car when there is no PS fluid / PS?
Can my car be driven without damaging the PS parts / relative parts?
If so, what are the steps to take in order for my car to legitimately have no PS?

I drove it home and I liked not having PS a bit - I want to know if it's okay to delete / plug lines so that it's not "enabled."

Murph_129
09-18-2015, 09:33 PM
nvm [>_>]

melomandn
09-18-2015, 11:00 PM
I have an a6 that blew a seal in the steering rack and loses all its fluids within half an hour of driving.

Good god I cant imagine deleting power steering, you may like it a little now but do not delete the system. Navigating parking lots or driveways becomes an adventure.

b5a4erik
09-19-2015, 04:39 PM
Thanks for the replies guys,

Having this become an adventure, seems more fun than problematic haha, but since it would be a problem for the steering rack, I'll replace the line I broke:

http://i.imgur.com/HeqJqZY.jpg

A couple questions:

1. Is that line in the pic this one?: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Steering/Lines/ES2801324/

2. If that is the correct line, do I need to buy that whole thing, or can I just use some standard tubing from a hardware store and connect it to the links? (The links are fine I think, it's the tubing that burst.)

b5a4erik
09-19-2015, 05:51 PM
*bump*

FeebleBiscuit
09-20-2015, 09:18 AM
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/20/a410130057f838266cdca7433f1b2fc7.jpg

I'm not sure if this works for your car but I'm sure you can figure it out from here.

This is for a 98 AEB

If it has a banjo on it you should replace the whole line. You don't want anything sketchy on you feed line.

chaoticdopey
09-20-2015, 09:38 AM
Apparently its the same for aeb awm atm

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z239/chaoticdopey/power%20steering_zpssnztoc8d.jpg

vrmm
09-20-2015, 11:28 AM
I used a 19mm socket and ground down half of it to fit the steering rack bolt. The link you posted looks correct.

I bought mine on ebay for 60$ and free shipping (cheaper now 40$). It's been on for 2.5 years or so no problems and they've sold a lot. No reason for you to support ecs and there absurd prices+++shipping. :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDI-A4-VW-PASSAT-1-8L-1-8-T-POWER-STEERING-PUMP-HOSE-8D1422893AL-8D1-422-893AL-/150611011293?hash=item23111da6dd

b5a4erik
09-20-2015, 05:37 PM
Thanks everyone for the replies ~

How difficult a job is this?

crazexr7
09-20-2015, 07:43 PM
Wow that looks not so fun to replace. The V6 has a short banjo supply hose on top of the engine and separate ones for the rack go to the reservoir and the steering cooler. Much better that way.

I've never done this job on a 1.8t but you might have enough room to do this without taking too much out.

vrmm
09-20-2015, 07:53 PM
I took my coolant reservoir off and after that it wasn't very difficult.

Seerlah
09-21-2015, 03:03 AM
Replaced mine a couple weeks ago. It is your high pressure feed line to the rack and can see over 1000psi (not a typo). Guess now you see why yours burst. Mine caught a leak. Instead of buying a new aftermarket one, i opted for a used oem one and picked it up on ebay. Taking the old one off is going to be a pita. Suprisingly, putting replacement on is a breeze, as long as you hand thread the rack banjo in first. Dont forget to pick up replacement crush washers. I thought i had the right sized ones, but you will need maybe 15mm ones vs the 14mm they say (thought i could use the ones i use for my oil drain plug which is 14mm). Ended up just reusing the old ones. No issue yet.

LA4
09-21-2015, 06:19 AM
Weird how this happened to you, I too have had a power steering problem pop up in the past 2 weeks. Seems like these things come in cycles.


I have an a6 that blew a seal in the steering rack and loses all its fluids within half an hour of driving.

Good god I cant imagine deleting power steering, you may like it a little now but do not delete the system. Navigating parking lots or driveways becomes an adventure.

I drove an R-Package Miata which came from the factory with no power steering. Not bad at all.

That being said, I imagine it to be much worse on an A4.

b5a4erik
09-21-2015, 03:11 PM
Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate the help ~

I've ordered the line and will be replacing it as soon as I can. [wrench]

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Murph_129: haha nvm to what man? Is the steering rack gonna be ight without lube?

melomandn: Thanks to you, and good luck to you if you attempt a repair.

FeebleBiscuit: Thanks man, good stuff, mine is an AEB so [up]
*teamwork*
chaoticdopey: Thanks to you as well, the parts list addition really helps.

crazexr7: I used to live in CT, whatup. As for having enough space, hopefully so.

vrmm: Got one ordered from ecs [;)] haha I've heard good things about some ebay things (FMIC) but I'm still hesitant about most items. I originally got it from ECS for quick shipping, it's not until after I ordered it that I realized express shipping was an option from ebay as well... I think I'll give ebay more of a chance in the future. Also, I just did a coolant flush, so will I be able to move the reservoir without draining coolant?

Seerlah: Wow, that's a lot of psi, and good info, thank you.

LA4: Indeed my fellow AZ'er...

vrmm
09-21-2015, 04:52 PM
Yes a lot is crap on eBay sucks, but not all. I also bought a power steering pump from ebay that's worked great too. Shelling out 200+$ on an oem seemed a little absurd.

b5a4erik
10-02-2015, 11:06 AM
Hello again all,

So I'm about to begin this job, and I'm wondering about the proper way to refill the PS fluid once I have the new hose installed.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Relative to Seerlah, mine too had a leak, at the top of the hose. Most the fluid drained out, I clamped up the top connection, no more leak. WAIT! A leak at the bottom connection now, clamped that up as well, no more leak.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Here's where I began filling the reservoir with fluid, leaving the cap off, and turning the wheel back and forth. All seemed well until a giant air bubble appeared mid hose, and then burst.

Where did I go wrong?

Notes:

I used somewhat universal PS fluid at the time, not the Pentosin fluid, is that a contributing factor to my failure?

Seerlah
10-02-2015, 11:47 AM
Front end off ground. Keep chocking wheel left and right and topping off as necessary till you can no longer top off. Key in accessory position. Once you cant fill anymore from chocking wheel, start car with cap still off and chock some more. Chocking wheel left to right is what bleeds it. And just replace the hose. Clamp wont fix it.

crazexr7
10-02-2015, 11:55 AM
The haynes manual is a little different but seems like it's similar sort of.

While car is in the air.

1.) Fill up the reservoir
2.) Fire up the engine for 1-2 seconds just enough for the pump to suck in power steering WITHOUT giving it the chance to suck in air.
3.) Fill reservoir again
4.) Repeat until fluid level doesn't change.
5.) Then bleed the system by turning wheel lock to lock 10 times

b5a4erik
10-02-2015, 12:41 PM
Awesome.

I got a new hose Seerlah

I think air probably got in there last time I tried filling it up. I was doing: Empty > fill > turn wheel [U]till it was empty > fill > repeat... all while my car was on.

As crazexr7 said, I'll be sure to turn the engine on for a brief moment without giving it a chance to suck air in this time, then chocking / turning the wheel.

Thanks, guys.

[wrench]

b5a4erik
10-07-2015, 08:13 PM
Alright,

So, I installed the new hose, filled up the fluid, cranked the wheel and everything worked. BTW for anyone in the future, the bolts where size 19 and 22.

HOWEVER: When driving today all of a sudden the PS stopped working again. This time, no loud noise or even any noticeable leaks... instead the fluid in the reservoir seems motionless even when the car is on.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Anyone know what going on?

Thanks for the help so far, any further help is appreciated.

Wrath And Tears
10-07-2015, 09:31 PM
Have you checked the belt for the P/S pump? I would say maybe the pump sucking air had killed it, which can often happen, but then it makes a terrible noise normally.

b5a4erik
10-08-2015, 09:23 AM
When the leak initially sprung, and I was driving w/o fluid, it made a really LOUD SCREEEEAAAAAACCHHHHH noise, also a whirring type noise when I would turn the wheel.

This sound like the culprit?

EDIT:

So my belt seems to be fine, spins alright and whatnot.

One thing I thought of: When I had the banjo bolts out, I was also working with acetone at the time, so I put the bolts in a bag w/ acetone and swished 'em around for a good minute to clean. That being said, one of the bolts https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Steering/ES437075/ has a check valve in it. Think it's possible the acetone melted the check valve in the bolt causing it to be blocked up?

Wrath And Tears
10-08-2015, 11:51 AM
Woah hadn't seen that before. It could be possible the acetone messed with the check valve, also possible that damage to the pump or rack was caused when you ran out of fluid. Unfortunately I don't have enough experience with P/S to tell you where to look next.

b5a4erik
10-08-2015, 12:18 PM
Woah hadn't seen that before. It could be possible the acetone messed with the check valve, also possible that damage to the pump or rack was caused when you ran out of fluid. Unfortunately I don't have enough experience with P/S to tell you where to look next.

Alright, thanks for the reply Wrath And Tears, I do appreciate it,

For someone who is more knowledgeable in the P/S department: if say it was the banjo bolt causing the problem, would it be alright for me to drive me car until I get that new bolt?

Also anymore insight on this general issue?

Crispy222
10-08-2015, 12:32 PM
probably burnt up the pump vane when running it while empty. The pump heats up as it compresses the fluid, and normally the fluid carries the heat away from the pump.

b5a4erik
10-08-2015, 12:40 PM
Just to remind everyone here: I drove it for a day then some, PS working just fine, before it started acting up again.

Crispy222: thanks for the reply, in this case would I need a new PS pump?

walky_talky20
10-08-2015, 01:10 PM
or a used one.

b5a4erik
10-08-2015, 01:14 PM
or a used one.

10-4.

Something to note:

I just turned my car on and tried turning the wheel, and the power steering seemed fully activated for maybe 5 seconds, then started to get more and more difficult to turn. However, never all that difficult as if it were completely gone.

Thoughts?

b5a4erik
10-08-2015, 02:23 PM
Quick Question: Safe to drive the car in it's current state?

vrmm
10-08-2015, 05:49 PM
I personally would. It's already broken.
The choice is yours. I don't know how a rack and pinion operates, but if it had 0 pressure and is still filled with fluid I don't see why it would matter.
Even if it did have pressure it wouldn't matter. It's lubricated.

b5a4erik
10-08-2015, 06:54 PM
I personally would. It's already broken.
The choice is yours. I don't know how a rack and pinion operates, but if it had 0 pressure and is still filled with fluid I don't see why it would matter.
Even if it did have pressure it wouldn't matter. It's lubricated.

Word, I figured as long as it was lubricated it would be alright, thanks for the confirmation, vrmm.

But in attempt to keep my power steering hopes alive: I took it on a test drive and power steering was mostly back, it became difficult to turn the wheel for a brief moment but then was back.

I think it's that banjo bolt. I'm going to drive it in the upcoming days and see what happens...

Crispy222
10-09-2015, 09:39 AM
I've never seen a check valve in any bolts or lines for the power steering. Take a picture of the bolt when you pull it out.

Seerlah
10-09-2015, 10:03 AM
Banjo bolt on the high pressure hose going to the rack has a valve in it. I dont think it's a check valve, though. I think it's a relief valve. Bentley manual says what kind of banjo bolt it is.