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View Full Version : Eurospec billet main caps



zandrew
07-21-2015, 04:14 PM
I came a cross a good deal on some billet main caps. They are new and unused but I remember some of the eurospec bits suck at best. Main caps are something that I can not see how they could screw up since they will have to be straight line honed.

Can anyone comment on these main caps?

Seerlah
07-21-2015, 06:05 PM
I don't trust that company. Their cam sets have great price tags on the set, but I'm scared to place those in my car. But really, use their parts at your own risk. I personally would not run them.

/my opinion

Davdraco1
07-21-2015, 06:58 PM
What are their cams priced at? And why do they have a bad wrap.

Seerlah
07-21-2015, 08:10 PM
Research them. Both cams as a set run around $550 brand new.

zandrew
07-21-2015, 09:13 PM
Yeah I know the cams are not so good and have avoided them. The street set is basically a copy of the adr NA cams from over seas and I would source a used set of them first before buying from eurospec. The billet main caps tho is a simple chunk of billet steel with arches cut in them. They are not going to do the final machining on them and if I get them and no good I can return them. I am thinking the caps would be ok as long as I have them checked out which I will do.

What I was wondering is if anyone has ever had or seen a specific eurospec billet main cap failure? I know one member bought an entire block from them and it took a shit on them, maybe thenj3? If I could remember who it was I would just ask them.

walky_talky20
07-22-2015, 05:42 AM
Do people have problems with the stock caps? I'd leave well enough alone unless there is an actual reason to change something. /IMHO

zandrew
07-22-2015, 06:07 PM
I agree walky. One problem tho, my machinist lost my factory caps so I'm SOL after spending a bit of money on getting all the work done to it. Trying to find a full set of factory caps that could be used is next to impossible. This is not something I feel my build requires but basically my only option due to rare and shitty circumstances.

redline380
07-22-2015, 06:24 PM
Make the machinist pay for new caps.

Also, you know I have a set....

zandrew
07-22-2015, 06:37 PM
He is acting like he didn't lose them but I know he did. Now I get to drive 2 hours away just to get my block fixed plus the cost of the caps.

I have about 5 full sets of used one and out of 25 caps I can use exactly 2. Either way I am goina have to have it line bored and honed so the extra strength of the billet main caps really could not hurt. I just don't want a set of duds that I am going be worried about if I install them. It would be about the same cost to buy another block and have it machined for my pistons so throwing in the billet caps seems more sensible.

Fyi if this happens to you either a dick machinist forgets to give them back or you lose them used ones are hard to make work. They literally have to be within .005" to start with or you will end up removing to much to make them work properly. You have to shorten the cap height which makes it weaker.

walky_talky20
07-22-2015, 08:50 PM
Make the machinist pay for new caps.


True. I was reading "my machinist lost my factory caps so I'm SOL", but I was thinking "my machinist lost my factory caps so [my machinist] is SOL".

But if you don't have receipts and stuff to prove who had what, then yeah...

I guess I'd agree about going with fancy new caps vs starting over on another block. If it were me, I'd just machine used caps. The amount of added weakness you are talking about has to be extremely minimal, right? We're talking a few thousandths.

grifrowl
07-22-2015, 09:56 PM
He is acting like he didn't lose them but I know he did. Now I get to drive 2 hours away just to get my block fixed plus the cost of the caps.

Do all engine machinists absolutely suck? Every time I have had something done at a shop it's gotten messed up in some way and the difference came out of my pocket. Most recently they ruined my pre-disassembled and separated holset by putting the compressor wheel in the hot tank, even after I specifically pointed out to not do that.
I worked as a quick turnaround machinist for a few years and if I had made oversights of that level I would have been fired so quickly.

chris164935
07-23-2015, 11:44 AM
There's no way that getting another block and having it bored for larger pistons is the same price as buying the Eurospec mains and having those machined... You can have a block for ~$200 (without a head); and having it checked/cleaned/bored shouldn't cost more than $200.

zandrew
07-23-2015, 04:43 PM
There's no way that getting another block and having it bored for larger pistons is the same price as buying the Eurospec mains and having those machined... You can have a block for ~$200 (without a head); and having it checked/cleaned/bored shouldn't cost more than $200.


The main caps were $250 shipped and the bore and line hone will be another $150 plus 4 hours driving to and from the machinist. I looked for a block and could not find one that someone would ship for a reasonable price. Actually the cheapest block I found was $425 shipped (none at the local yards). I also have a brand new set of aeb pistons and rings so if I could just find a block I would have it honed and go with it. However it does not matter how you cut it, its goina come out to the same price so using the billet main caps is the best idea as the added security will be nice.

Seerlah
07-23-2015, 05:20 PM
2 minute search. Didn't even click on fourtitude.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Block-Bare-97-01-Audi-A4-VW-Passat-1-8T-AEB-ATW-Genuine-/281731617776?hash=item41988353f0&vxp=mtr

zandrew
07-23-2015, 07:52 PM
Yeah $300 still costs more then using my own block and having the billet caps installed. Rest assured I searched everywhere for a block and could not find one within reason. I even used the largest used car parts data base and could not find one that worked.

The block at $300 shipped with a clean and a hone is going be just as much as using the billet main caps. Thats not including boring. It would have been awesome had I found it about 2 months ago. Trust me, I am a ninja at stretching my dollar, I have looked high and low and no dice.

chris164935
07-24-2015, 12:18 AM
Any pictures of these brand new $250 billet main caps? Brand new, the Eurospec units are $470.

Also, $250 for added security? Maybe not:
https://www.facebook.com/inteng/posts/140627789338444?comment_id=1058288 (Read the comments.)

What block do you need? 058 or 06A?

zandrew
07-24-2015, 01:41 PM
Any pictures of these brand new $250 billet main caps? Brand new, the Eurospec units are $470.

Also, $250 for added security? Maybe not:
https://www.facebook.com/inteng/posts/140627789338444?comment_id=1058288 (Read the comments.)

What block do you need? 058 or 06A?

Yeah they do sell for $470 but if you take a couple minutes too look around they can be found cheaper. However whats that have to do with the price of eggs in China? You think I am here to piss in the wind with bs theories?

I want too know if there has been any specific failures tied directly to this product. Yes I read the issue that ie points out and also read the thread on vwvortex. The thread on vortex rubs me that the machinist he took them too did not have a main cap grinder which you grind the main cap bases before installing them for boring and honing. It guarantees they are perfectly vertical from their base. Some of IE complaints would be well founded but they do not show a single example of these faults and consequently they started selling their own line. I am not saying they are wrong but if I believed everything on the internet I would stop drinking red bull.

Its abundantly obvious if there is not enough margin for boring honing they will not work. Also obvious if the thrust bearing in incorrectly machined they will not work. Outside the fact that if the machining is not close enough have you seen a failure? Actually have you known anyone that has used them, No?

I do not need a block. As I stated I already looked for one and I could not find one that would give me a price point advantage over using the billet main caps I already have that I paid $250 shipped for brand new. I started wtb add here for a block and contacted several members that had them for sell, it did not work out. Also if you are rebuilding a block and having the cylinder bores, you really should have the main caps honed. If you intend on doing it right that is. Everything in the engine is based off of the main caps bore, literally everything.

M-Hood
07-24-2015, 01:45 PM
Do people have problems with the stock caps? I'd leave well enough alone unless there is an actual reason to change something. /IMHO

Still running stock main caps on my car, 700+awhp and counting now. lol

As for ESS, I wouldn't use their products even if they paid me. Was crap in 2001, still crap now.

Seerlah
07-24-2015, 02:15 PM
Zandrew, point one is I did not know you already purchased them. Point two, if you have not seen any documentation of them failing then take the gamble and be the first to document it if it happens. Not saying it will, but I'm saying I don't trust their parts as far as I can throw them. What you want to do is on you. I also have a set of main caps laying around, from my original block (want to use them later on to stroker that block, so not for sale...unless we can make some sort of deal. still want those upgraded springs [;)])

Since you are a machinist, why not just do the work and see if clearances check out. If you can do it yourself, you don't have anything to waste except time and effort. And if clearances don't check out, you will know why many including myself don't trust their stuff. And if it does check out, then I guess run with them. Only real issue after that would be integrity. Or is it [confused]

chris164935
07-24-2015, 07:48 PM
Why post this if you were going to do it anyway? Every time people say something, you just do the opposite. Lol. Good luck with your build.

zandrew
07-24-2015, 10:23 PM
Why post this if you were going to do it anyway? Every time people say something, you just do the opposite. Lol. Good luck with your build.

I posted this because I asked specifically if anyone has seen a Eurospec billet main cap failure. No one has. Thats what I wanted to know. Your the one doing the exact opposite. I ask a question and you ask for pictures of new billet main caps and go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the question. I had not purchased them when I asked question. I researched the shit out of this before I ordered them and I have not found anything to say they are junk and no good.

Seerlah I appreciate the link and I would have probably tried to work them down on price had I came across it before these caps. Unfortunately I do not have access to those machining tools but I can check them out to make sure they can work which I am pretty sure they will. I need to check one more thing. Surprisingly none of the arches are off center and neither is the bolt holes. All have nice parallel sides. The only thing that caught me with them is that they were tight going into the main cap space. They are .001" wider then stock but they can be tightened down with socket in hand. I think I will be letting go of my nib aeb pistons and rings.

Mike hood its great to know the factory caps have held up for you. I am sure if you lost them you would be in the same boat as me. I called Audi and they will not sell you a set of caps with margin. Used main caps are anywhere from $30 to $50 a set. After finding some junkers from older vw blocks and I have only found 2 out of 25 that will work I am stuck with either buying a new block for $250+ and having it cleaned bored and honed which is another $200. Or I can keep my block and have these billet cams installed for about the same price. Do I think I will need them, no. Will it hurt having them, I hope not. Out of curiosity are you running arp head studs and main studs or factory bits?

Seerlah
07-24-2015, 10:56 PM
Stock main caps don't necessarily just slide right in. Those also go down when torqued with a socket, from my experience.

chris164935
07-25-2015, 06:15 PM
I asked for pictures because something be sold for half its price brand new seems really sketchy. Second, I provided you with the link of a reputable shop that used to carry and sell them. They mentioned first hand how customers were sending them back because of issues. They were pretty much trash before even being used... What more do you need?
But, hopefully, you got one of the sets that are within spec so that you can actually machine/install them properly.

M-Hood
07-25-2015, 07:19 PM
Mike hood its great to know the factory caps have held up for you. I am sure if you lost them you would be in the same boat as me. I called Audi and they will not sell you a set of caps with margin. Used main caps are anywhere from $30 to $50 a set. After finding some junkers from older vw blocks and I have only found 2 out of 25 that will work I am stuck with either buying a new block for $250+ and having it cleaned bored and honed which is another $200. Or I can keep my block and have these billet cams installed for about the same price. Do I think I will need them, no. Will it hurt having them, I hope not. Out of curiosity are you running arp head studs and main studs or factory bits?

I went with Raceware head studs long time ago, long before ARP even offered the 1.8t head studs or head bolts, pretty sure I am still running stock main studs. The bottom end hasn't been touched since 2007 and that was mainly just to swap in a set of new pistons.

zandrew
07-25-2015, 09:24 PM
I asked for pictures because something be sold for half its price brand new seems really sketchy. Second, I provided you with the link of a reputable shop that used to carry and sell them. They mentioned first hand how customers were sending them back because of issues. They were pretty much trash before even being used... What more do you need?
But, hopefully, you got one of the sets that are within spec so that you can actually machine/install them properly.


I am going to try and go through this so we do not continue to step on each others toes. I am appreciative of the assistance you have offered but I think you enjoy the taste of kool aid a bit too much.

If I offer for retail an item, say 6 side nuts which is your typical fastner and you purchase say a pack of 10. However once you get these nuts they are 5 sided instead. I think it would be abundantly obvious they are no good correct?

Ok so lets move on too Eurospec Billet main caps which I would bet a dollar to a dime you have no experience with. The caps when purchased are not perfect. You have to machine about .010" from these caps and then hone. Do you realize how minute .010" is? Its about the thickness of 3 sheets of paper. This is the margin I am talking about. Its perfectly plausible that some of these caps are not close enough to work for certain customers. Do you realize how many different makes of engines this set covers? Too give you an idea how small the margin is I have 25 used caps and only 2 could be made to work with machining.

Now the only evidence you offer is few comments by IE which were made at the same time they started their own line of product. There is 0 pictures documenting any of these issues. There was one comment on vortex about them but I am pretty sure the machine shop he took them too was not setup correctly to do the job. I did not ask if IE thought their product was superior to another's, I asked if anyone knew any specific example where Eurospec Billet main caps caused a failure.

If they are not properly machined no shit they will not work, thus the story of 5 sided nuts. Can you show me a picture of sets that are not properly machined?

Also no one is going to try and make Eurospec billet main cap knock offs and sale them for $250. If you can not tell the difference between a new cap and one that is used this conversation is not for you.

chris164935
07-26-2015, 12:44 AM
My experience with the Eurospec main caps? I don't have any pictures, so you'll probably disregard it... But, a few years prior to IE even thinking about manufacturing and sell their own billet main caps, I was fairly set on purchasing the whole Eurospec main caps and girdle kit directly from them (IE). Pete responded with similar comments to the ones on that Facebook post to me about the quality of the parts and highly advised against purchasing the kit.
I'd tell you to search Eurospec's other parts and read about the poor quality control many others have had with those, but there aren't any pictures in those threads either. [>_<]
And yes, there are A LOT of different 4 cylinder Volkswagen engines out there. So, are you saying you expect to possibly have to return several of these main caps until you get ones that have enough meat on them to be properly bored and honed to work with your specific block?
Lastly, there's no kool aid here. Eurospec has been around for a LONG time. If there was something people were missing out on, I'm pretty sure it would have been discovered by now. Also, I had great success using their bearings in my motor about 10 or so years ago.