Misfires all one bank, dead CAT, dealer wants me to pay for CAT due to tune

[USAFS4]

Should I have to pay for a dead CAT if my engine started dumping in fuel after I had some sudden failure that resulted in misfires on one bank?

My misfires started when i was driving on the back straight at Road Atlanta. Car was fine one second, was hammering down the back straight, and them da,da,da,da,da,. When I pulled the codes at the track all I had was a misfire on cylinder 5. I had to drive 2.5 hrs home from the track with whatever problem I had. The car didn't misfire over 4/5k rpm so I though I was fine to at least drive it home. It took me a couple of weeks before I took it into dealer, cause I was hoping to figure the problem myself because I was tuned and I didn't want to flash back to stock. So for maybe 3 weeks I probably drove another 2-300 miles, and I my fuel consumption was horrible the entire time. Before I took the car into the dealer I pulled codes and notice I also had "leak in air intake", and "fuel trim bank 2", along with the misfires.

So my bet is that my CAT died because I was driving the car while it was compensating for whatever problem it had by dumping in extra fuel (possibly due to a vacuum leak somewhere).

If my CAT died because of the misfire issue, should I be paying for a new CAT? I guess you could say yes cause I didn't take it straight to the dealer, but I didn't realize I had the air leak issue at the time (just the misfires). I figured it was plugs or coilpacks so I swapped those.

At any rate, the fixes they are going to do to fix my original problem of misfires is to execute the fuel rail TSB, replace my oil separator, and replace my CAT. I don't think any of these 'fixes' are going to fix my misfire. And if I don't pay to replace my CAT and the car still has misfires after they do the other 2 fixes they will just say it is because I didn't replace my CAT. Since my misfires happened in a very immediate way, one sec fine the next not, I don't see how my CAT was the original problem. Also, I only had a misfire on one cylinder initially so how could that be because of a clogged CAT?

Do you think executing all three of the fixes will fix my misfire problem? I of course will not be paying 1500$ for a new CAT when I can get a new aftermarket exhaust for nearly that.

[esimp2k]

Short answer: yes.

[paul]

Gotta pay to play. Tuned and driven with it running improperly is on you sadly.

[bhvrdr]

So you never flashed it back to stock?

Mike

[USAFS4]

So you never flashed it back to stock?

Mike

No, no. I did flash it back to stock. But some at the dealer know I'm tuned. However when the tech couldn't diagnose the car, they had to call in the regional tech. If I wanted to say I wasn't tuned, I figure I'd have a fight on my hands and I may lose the relationships with some at the dealer who have helped me out in the past. I realize you pay to play, but my biggest issue is that they failed to diagnose the car for over 2 weeks, and the suggested fixes don't seem to address the fault codes. I of course don't want to pay for an OEM CAT, when I can upgrade to a high flow system; and since I'm not going to pay for them to install it the car will not have a new CAT after they do the other two fixes.

Ultimately my issue, is if they fail to fix my misfire, I'm stuck figuring it out and fixing it myself. Tuned or not, the issue I'm having hasn't appeared to have happened to any other cars (at least not on any of the forums, I've searched extensively). So it is HIGHLY unlikely my tune caused my initial problem. My bet is that carbon build up has caused a problem with the secondary air system. And that is an issue with poor design and not a tune. I'm still under warranty, and I just want them to address the problems that most likely resulted from a design issue.

[bhvrdr]

Lesson learned. Nobody at the dealership is your friend. No dealership is "cool" about mods. All bets are off once a warranty claim comes up.

Unfortunately admitting you had a tune seemingly gives dealerships the blank check to stop all diagnostics and blame the tune. Never ever admit you ever have a tune. If Audi were more reasonable about accepting responsibility for their failures this wouldnt be an issue and we could admit to tunes and they would cover what is right for them to cover and deny what comes from having an additional 70hp. This isnt the case. As it is people feel the need to bribe their dealerships with bottles of wine, donuts, pizzas, etc just to do their job. Even then some dealerships refuse to do required warranty services like 35K mile DSG flushes. Never trust the dealership. Never. I'm not saying they are the enemy...it's just that they are the enemy.

Mike

[USAFS4]

So why didn't someone say the oil separator is part of the pcv system??? That should fix my air leak, and therefore my misfires yes?
I hope so.

[Dr GP]

If you have a tune and don't reflash back to stock before going in for service, expect to get a TDI . Dealer has no leeway as to whether to report it to AoA or not. Do not expect them to cover anything on the engine, drive train , intake or exhaust under warranty.

[Ryan_qttro]

Secondary air ports being clogged won't cause Cat to fail. Secondary air just helps to heat up the cat quicker for emissions. Misfires kill cats.

[USAFS4]

Secondary air ports being clogged won't cause Cat to fail. Secondary air just helps to heat up the cat quicker for emissions. Misfires kill cats.

I would agree, but the CAT is not the cause so I'm happy if they fix the cause. The CAT probably would have survived if I had gone straight to the dealer when it started to misfire.

[chaos2984]

deny deny deny then lie lie lie. If you flashed back to stock and they read the ecm and see your stock. They Have 0 proof that your tuned. They cannot go off of someones word that your tuned when the proof states that they read your ecm and there is no tune on your ecm. That wouldn't hold up in a court of law and audi would be liable for warranty service for you. You cost yourself. You never ever want to tell the dealer what you do to the car, Unless you are good friends with them and i mean you have a friend that works there. You force it on them to provide the proof to deny you warranty. They can't go off of what someone says. its like the says a person tells you to go jump off a bridge, will you do it NO.

[Ryan_qttro]

Better delete this thread then lol if it goes that far. Also doesn't help you were on a track.

[USAFS4]

Better delete this thread then lol if it goes that far. Also doesn't help you were on a track.

Since when is a warranty voided for HPDEs?

[Race Shooter]

This is from an Audi warranty booklet:


All warranties are voided and will not be reinstated under the following circumstances:
•The vehicle identification number (VIN) has been altered or removed.
•The odometer has been altered or the actual mileage/kilometrage cannot be determined.
•An insurer reports the vehicle as dismantled, fire/flood damage, junk, rebuilt, reconstructed, salvaged, or declared a loss.
•The vehicle has been used in racing, competitive events or livery cab service.
•The vehicle has been stolen or exported from the United States

Now, HPDE arent exactly racing, but it could be considered competitive since it is on a track. Again, you'd have to fight Audi on that if they decided to use it as an exclusion.

[eurotic]

This is from an Audi warranty booklet:



Now, HPDE arent exactly racing, but it could be considered competitive since it is on a track. Again, you'd have to fight Audi on that if they decided to use it as an exclusion.

I would disagree that HPDE are competitive. They are not supposed to be timed events just like hot laps at a track...at least this is how it is locally for me. Our auto insurance specifically covers me during a HPDE or hot laps and specifically does not cover me for time attack or autocross. But again that is how it works where I live, YMMV.

[Race Shooter]

I would disagree that HPDE are competitive. They are not supposed to be timed events just like hot laps at a track...at least this is how it is locally for me. Our auto insurance specifically covers me during a HPDE or hot laps and specifically does not cover me for time attack or autocross. But again that is how it works where I live, YMMV.

I would disagree as well, however, we both know that Audi generally has different opinions on what qualifies for warranty and what doesnt.

[jlaudio]

this thread reminds me of a scene in entourage


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJC7GCxlhwc

[Docwyte]

You're on the hook for this. The tune very possibly dumped fuel and burned out the cat. Audi has no idea, all they know is their tune wasn't on the car when this happened. Not their fault at this point.

As far as I know, there aren't any aftermarket cats available for our cars...

[drob23]

I would disagree as well, however, we both know that Audi generally has different opinions on what qualifies for warranty and what doesnt.

But where would you draw the line? What if a teen is doing a safe driving class. Where part of the exercises involve doing some limit maneuvers. HPDE is definitely the gray area, however, it's definitely not racing, and competitive usually implies the event is timed. I'd say that unless audi changes the letter of their policy, HPDE would not void the warranty.

Insurance companies have in many cases changed the wording on their policies to exclude HPDE's from coverage.

[Mr.Tan]

as far as I am aware, even if you set the ECU back to stock Audi could dig deep and find that the car was in fact tuned... Audi implants a code into the ECU and one the car is tuned, it erases it... Even going back to stock it will show that the code was erased and the ECU was messed with..... I got that info from my good friend who is a SA at the dealership when I asked him about mods to the car.

[drob23]

as far as I am aware, even if you set the ECU back to stock Audi could dig deep and find that the car was in fact tuned... Audi implants a code into the ECU and one the car is tuned, it erases it... Even going back to stock it will show that the code was erased and the ECU was messed with..... I got that info from my good friend who is a SA at the dealership when I asked him about mods to the car.
The question comes down to whether audi will flag it td1 automatically or not. There are cases where they have not after flashing back to stock. Which would disprove your theory at one point in time.

[Mr.Tan]

The question comes down to whether audi will flag it td1 automatically or not. There are cases where they have not after flashing back to stock. Which would disprove your theory at one point in time.

i'd imagine in a situation like this they would probably hook it up and let the system runs its course...especially if they know the car was tuned and are looking for a way out of paying.

[Race Shooter]

But where would you draw the line? What if a teen is doing a safe driving class. Where part of the exercises involve doing some limit maneuvers. HPDE is definitely the gray area, however, it's definitely not racing, and competitive usually implies the event is timed. I'd say that unless audi changes the letter of their policy, HPDE would not void the warranty.

Insurance companies have in many cases changed the wording on their policies to exclude HPDE's from coverage.

Again, I agree, but Audi may not and if they try to deny it based on that, its up to you to fight it and how hard are you willing or can you fight them? That is the question. I'd say a teen driving course is a bit different as it generally wouldnt involve lap after lap of driving the car at the limit for the better part of a day, also many of those supply cars.

If insurance companies are excluding HPDE's from coverage, wouldnt it be logical for the manufacturer to try to follow suit.

I'm not saying it will exclude him, however, it is a possibility that Audi would not agree with us and it certainly doesnt help his cause.