Nice car, but that price!

[SlickFix]

Hey guys,

I'm in the market for another Audi, since my 16 yrd old son is about to get his license. I'm heading out to go look at this Avant (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/cto/4903731229.html), which looks to be in great shape. That being said, this guy's price concerns me. He's got it listed at over $3500 higher than the KBB value, and I called him and he doesn't have any proof of when the last timing belt job was done.

If we like the car, I'm thinking of offering him the KBB value, which is a shade over $8000. Does that sound about right to you, or is that too low?

[jimrobbington]

His price is definitely high. The problem is that the avant is much more highly sought after. You'll be able to get a better deal on a sedan much easier. Avant sellers will try to hold out to get more money or of the people who may have the avant.

[Audibot]

Sounds sloppy on his part. My guess he priced it there because he still owes on the car. I think your suggested price is good, especially with the argument that you need to change the timing belt because his poor record keeping. You may be able to get info if you can get what shop he took it to. Hopefully he accepts your offer (print out the KBB too). May want interior pics as well.

I'm kind of jealous. I have a Dolphin Grey sedan and that Avant looks sexy. Your son is one lucky kid (I got the "You want a car? You need to earn it yourself" argument)

[audihere06]

Way too high for that many miles. Btw the 3.2 doesnt have a timing belt.


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[onedumslack]

Considering if you look enough you will find sedans with half that mileage for that price I wouldn't entertain anything over your kbb price.

[mccorkled]

I'm sure he knows what shop he always goes to, call them and they will know what mileage it was change at.

[TMurt]

I agree, the car has great options but for that price it should have 50k less miles in my opinion. Sedan will be much easier to find and you'll have more options. Mine is a 3.2 sedan, similarly equipped to that avant with some upgrades (96k miles) and I wouldn't expect get over 10k for it

[GrapeBandit]

KBB[headbang]really[confused] those numbers mean absolutely nothing in the real world[facepalm]

[geebus]

His price is definitely high. The problem is that the avant is much more highly sought after. You'll be able to get a better deal on a sedan much easier. Avant sellers will try to hold out to get more money or of the people who may have the avant.

typically true, but only the 2.0t with a 6mt tranny usually get a premium. A tiptronic 3.2 never gets the same asking price.

[LINDW4LL]

Avants aren't as rare as people think, and the 3.2L (especially with Tiptronic) is probably the least demanded avant, at least from an enthusiast's perspective.

Even at 8k, it's a decent deal, but not great IMO. Does it have nav and Bi-xenons?

[brandonpham]

It is a 3.2, it may be an S Line but it is an 06 avant at 143k. I don't see it worth the money hes asking. 8k is much more reasonable, however I always feel those who still owe money ask much more because of that fact.

[SlickFix]

Btw the 3.2 doesnt have a timing belt.



Is that right? Huh, I had no idea it was chain driven. I have the B6/B7 Bentley manual, I should probably look it up!

Well, the car is nice, but not in "excellent" condition. I'd say "good to very good". The owner is a young guy in his 20's with a wife and a 1 year old child, and has owned this car for less than a year. He said that the lowest he could possibly go is $9k, so that tells me he owes around $9k to the bank.

Actually, I was impressed with the 3.2L engine. Definitely more "get up and go" than the 3.0L. So, if we do purchase the car, the B6 Avant would go to my son, and the B7 Avant would be wifey's car.

As to whether or not KBB is a fair guide...I guess I could be persuaded that might be true. If not KBB, then where can you get a reasonable starting point?

Anyway, I don't think the car is worth $10K, much less $11.5k. Too many miles. I may meet him at $8.5 k and see if he bites.

Thanks for the comments everyone! [hail]

[aluthman]

I've always thought NADA guides were more accurate to vehicle values.

[JayDog747]

The ThreeTwo has a chain. If you hear a clatter, pass it up. Find out when the trans and rear diff fluid was changed. Check the shocks and control arms, you maybe replacing those. Check the valve cover gaskets and the front of the engine for oil leaks. Check the accessory belt. Check the undercarriage for missing or damaged shields.

The guy is asking retail price for a private sale. Inform him of the reality to the value of his 9y.o. 15K/year shotty maintenance record car is only $8K

[SlickFix]

The ThreeTwo has a chain. If you hear a clatter, pass it up. Find out when the trans and rear diff fluid was changed. Check the shocks and control arms, you maybe replacing those. Check the valve cover gaskets and the front of the engine for oil leaks. Check the accessory belt. Check the undercarriage for missing or damaged shields.

The guy is asking retail price for a private sale. Inform him of the reality to the value of his 9y.o. 15K/year shotty maintenance record car is only $8K

Interestingly, he had the car running when we got there. I wonder if he didn't want us to hear any chain rattle on start up? As B6 S4 owner, I'm VERY aware of the chain guide failures of the 4.2 engine. Is the 3.2 known for similar failures?

The engine was dirty, and some electrical wires were exposed through their sheaths...but not many. There was evidence of leaking valve cover gaskets.

The suspension was tight, and the exhaust looked in very good condition, which makes sense since he bought the car in California. Native Minnesota cars have much more rusty looking exhausts.

[papadelogan]

Interestingly, he had the car running when we got there. I wonder if he didn't want us to hear any chain rattle on start up?

Classic technique to hide startup noises. Always check out the car with a cold engine so you can hear it start.



The engine was dirty, and some electrical wires were exposed through their sheaths...but not many. There was evidence of leaking valve cover gaskets.

A german car with exposed wiring? Do you really want to troubleshoot electrical issues?? Leaking valve cover gaskets is further proof of laziness/shoddy maintenance



The suspension was tight, and the exhaust looked in very good condition, which makes sense since he bought the car in California. Native Minnesota cars have much more rusty looking exhausts.

I'd keep looking for one that has been taken care of better, with documentation, and no exposed wiring for sure!

[JayDog747]

Interestingly, he had the car running when we got there. I wonder if he didn't want us to hear any chain rattle on start up? As B6 S4 owner, I'm VERY aware of the chain guide failures of the 4.2 engine. Is the 3.2 known for similar failures?

The engine was dirty, and some electrical wires were exposed through their sheaths...but not many. There was evidence of leaking valve cover gaskets.

The suspension was tight, and the exhaust looked in very good condition, which makes sense since he bought the car in California. Native Minnesota cars have much more rusty looking exhausts.

It does sound similar to the 4.2 on start up but it's not as common as with the early 4.2. You realllly have to stretch the oil changes and drive in the high revs to damage the 3.2. The fact that he had it running is suspect. Also the 3.2 is direct injection. If it's having troubles starting, there's a chance of carbon buildup.

The wife had a '06 3.2 6mt that was still running strong at 150k. Every 5k oil change. I F'uped the oil changes for the trans and it took a dump.

[Yogie]

I for one just love the fact your family is all gonna drive Audi's. That rocks

[aluthman]

It does sound similar to the 4.2 on start up but it's not as common as with the early 4.2. You realllly have to stretch the oil changes and drive in the high revs to damage the 3.2. The fact that he had it running is suspect. Also the 3.2 is direct injection. If it's having troubles starting, there's a chance of carbon buildup.

The wife had a '06 3.2 6mt that was still running strong at 150k. Every 5k oil change. I F'uped the oil changes for the trans and it took a dump.

A used 6mt trans can be had for $500-$1000 depending on mileage. Why not just replace the trans?

[JayDog747]

The wife puts 25k/year on her cars because of her job. The Audi isn't quite a fleet car. Plus she just trashes the shit out of her cars, couple of accidents, arm rest glove box shit.

Having said that, her lease is up next month and wants to get back in a B7. Now I understand why it was so easy to talk her into buying that scissor jack.

[Demonface]

I personally would offer half of what he's asking . The only reason I say half is because if he doesnt have proper maintenance records I wouldnt want to spend 11.5K for a car I dont know whats been done to it. If he owes the bank more than that It shouldnt be any of your concern. He can probably talk the bank down to a lower pay off amount.

[Tenedorr]

Interestingly, he had the car running when we got there. I wonder if he didn't want us to hear any chain rattle on start up? As B6 S4 owner, I'm VERY aware of the chain guide failures of the 4.2 engine. Is the 3.2 known for similar failures?

The engine was dirty, and some electrical wires were exposed through their sheaths...but not many. There was evidence of leaking valve cover gaskets.

The suspension was tight, and the exhaust looked in very good condition, which makes sense since he bought the car in California. Native Minnesota cars have much more rusty looking exhausts.

Red flags

[customa4]

Yea, Slick sounds like this guy doesn't know much about the car and he's still asking top dollar for it. I would keep looking. You might have to travel a little bit but I'm sure you can get a better deal.

[SlickFix]

Red flags

Maybe, maybe not. It's not uncommon to have people want to meet in a public place when doing craigslist business. To be fair to him, they brought two cars and had both of them running. The engine looked like an engine you expect to find from someone who doesn't work on the car themselves, so that doesn't worry me too much. I could clean it up and resolved the frayed wiring pretty easily.

And now that I think about it, I did shut the engine off while I looked at it and poked around. It started back up just fine, no rattles or noises.

Oh, did I mention how crappy plasti-dipped wheels look? If I bought this car, the first thing I would do is return the wheels to their silver alloy state.

I'm still looking at other vehicles, too.

Curious about the comment of the 3.2 being the least desirable engine. Is the 2.0T some wolf in sheep's clothing? I've never driven a 2.0T Audi yet.

[geebus]

Maybe, maybe not. It's not uncommon to have people want to meet in a public place when doing craigslist business. To be fair to him, they brought two cars and had both of them running. The engine looked like an engine you expect to find from someone who doesn't work on the car themselves, so that doesn't worry me too much. I could clean it up and resolved the frayed wiring pretty easily.

And now that I think about it, I did shut the engine off while I looked at it and poked around. It started back up just fine, no rattles or noises.

Oh, did I mention how crappy plasti-dipped wheels look? If I bought this car, the first thing I would do is return the wheels to their silver alloy state.

I'm still looking at other vehicles, too.

Curious about the comment of the 3.2 being the least desirable engine. Is the 2.0T some wolf in sheep's clothing? I've never driven a 2.0T Audi yet.
The 2.0 is more desirable from a tuners perspective. But since you probably aren't worried about that I would keep with the 3.2.

[SlickFix]

Well, things just got a little more interesting. I went to NADA and did the same check there, and it came back as being very close to the owner's asking price...albeit using NADA's "Clean Retail" price. But they don't specify if retail is from a dealer or a private party. NADA price. (http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2006/Audi/A4-V6/Wagon-4D-3-2-Avant-S-Line-Quattro/Values)

One last question. I'm having difficulty figuring out which B7's have sport suspension vs. non-sport. On the B6's is pretty easy to spot the 4x4 look, but not as easy on the B7's. Any easy way to spot non-sport?

[vtwinjunkie]

damn. I wish you were my parent at that age.

[menace1930]

Before driving I would definitely drive that car on a cold start before it has a chance to warm up. If im not mistaken, those tiptronic tranny's are known to have torque converter problems that are much more noticeable when the car is cold. Ive heard horror stories about people having fluctuating RPM's. This may be why he is getting rid of the car so soon.

[SlickFix]

damn. I wish you were my parent at that age.

Thank you. [:)]

The reason my son is going to get to drive an Audi is because A) They're safe; and B) That's the only car his Dad knows how to fix. [;)]

When I was a young lad, I had a car payment by the time I was 16. It was a huge mistake to let a 16 yr old have a car payment. So, I'm doing things a little differently as a parent. I'm buying the car, but making sure that he focuses of getting good grades.

[SlickFix]

Before driving I would definitely drive that car on a cold start before it has a chance to warm up. If im not mistaken, those tiptronic tranny's are known to have torque converter problems that are much more noticeable when the car is cold. Ive heard horror stories about people having fluctuating RPM's. This may be why he is getting rid of the car so soon.

Understood. Will do. If we go ahead with this particular car, I will insist on a cold start.

[naiku]

One last question. I'm having difficulty figuring out which B7's have sport suspension vs. non-sport. On the B6's is pretty easy to spot the 4x4 look, but not as easy on the B7's. Any easy way to spot non-sport?

Someone can confirm this as I may have the colors wrong, but the sport suspension has red shocks, non sport is I believe yellow.

[B-Time]

One last question. I'm having difficulty figuring out which B7's have sport suspension vs. non-sport. On the B6's is pretty easy to spot the 4x4 look, but not as easy on the B7's. Any easy way to spot non-sport?

Sport shocks are red. Sport shocks are part of the S-line package. Generally if the car came with 18" wheels and has S-line badges on the rear doors, it will have sport suspension. Be aware that all 2008s came with an s-line front bumper, but the majority do not have the s-line package.

Very easy to tell if you post links.

[Charles.waite]

B7s have the same exact suspension as the b6, so black shocks = non-sport. Red shocks = sport. The ride height difference is noticeable (Ive owned both a non-sport and sport b7 avant). In 2006 though, that bumper was only available in S-Line which means it has Sport suspension as it has the S-Line package. And I believe those are S-Line wheels too. And I can tell from the pics thats Sport ride height (looks the same height as my avant).

The 3.2 is a decent engine, but has issues with carbon buildup as with any Audi FSI motor. The 2.0t has similar problems. The difference between the 3.0 and 1.8t is roughly the same as the difference between the 2.0t and 3.2. The 3.2 is a timing chain as people said before so thats sort of a plus, but as you know with the 4.2 its not all rainbows. Tell the guy you want to hear what it sounds like at a cold start or no deal. I would be concerned about the chain guides at that mileage.

As for 2.0t vs 3.2? Meh. I had one 2.0t with ZERO problems (except for a dying Tiptronic) and another with major engine issues right off the bat. If you want reliable and don't care about tuning potential go 3.2 for sure. Otherwise the 2.0t will surprise you, its very tunable and can be damn quick for a such a small engine. But those 1st gen 2.0t engines have some engineering issues that hold them back. The EA888 2.0t engines in the b8 and above are definitely superior.

[SlickFix]

B7s have the same exact suspension as the b6, so black shocks = non-sport. Red shocks = sport. The ride height difference is noticeable (Ive owned both a non-sport and sport b7 avant). In 2006 though, that bumper was only available in S-Line which means it has Sport suspension as it has the S-Line package. And I believe those are S-Line wheels too. And I can tell from the pics thats Sport ride height (looks the same height as my avant).

The 3.2 is a decent engine, but has issues with carbon buildup as with any Audi FSI motor. The 2.0t has similar problems. The difference between the 3.0 and 1.8t is roughly the same as the difference between the 2.0t and 3.2. The 3.2 is a timing chain as people said before so thats sort of a plus, but as you know with the 4.2 its not all rainbows. Tell the guy you want to hear what it sounds like at a cold start or no deal. I would be concerned about the chain guides at that mileage.

As for 2.0t vs 3.2? Meh. I had one 2.0t with ZERO problems (except for a dying Tiptronic) and another with major engine issues right off the bat. If you want reliable and don't care about tuning potential go 3.2 for sure. Otherwise the 2.0t will surprise you, its very tunable and can be damn quick for a such a small engine. But those 1st gen 2.0t engines have some engineering issues that hold them back. The EA888 2.0t engines in the b8 and above are definitely superior.

Thanks Charles. I know about the red vs. black of the struts, but I guess I was hoping to be able to find an easy way to spot them while looking online, not having my head stuck between the fender and tire. So, I think I understand now that all S-Line B7's have sport suspension, and with the non-S-Lines, it's a toss up.

Interesting and helpful comments on the engines, too. The last thing I need are TWO cars with iffy timing chain guides.

[Charles.waite]

Thanks Charles. I know about the red vs. black of the struts, but I guess I was hoping to be able to find an easy way to spot them while looking online, not having my head stuck between the fender and tire. So, I think I understand now that all S-Line B7's have sport suspension, and with the non-S-Lines, it's a toss up.

Interesting and helpful comments on the engines, too. The last thing I need are TWO cars with iffy timing chain guides.

Yea thats pretty much it, suspension wise. You could get the sport suspension without the S-Line package, but you couldn't get the S-line package without the sport suspension. Except for in 2008 where they had the SE package which is the S-Line appearance package. You get the bumpers and badges, but no suspension, different wheels, no sport steering wheel and no door sills, I think.

As far as the 3.2 timing chains, I actually have no idea if they're problematic. I haven't ever heard anything on here about them failing, but then again there aren't that many 3.2 guys here and I'll admit I haven't really been paying attention.

[phatjames167]

I bought my B7 6spd 2.0t Avant with around 101k miles for $9100 from a dealer and that was figuring in what It needed below.

new center caps (old ones were crap)
rear ash tray lid (old one is broken)
fix for the glove box
rear hatch compartment part to hold it closed
tires
and timing belt

not to mention stuff I found out after leaving the dealer like
rear license plate mount ( I should have caught this at the dealer)
new thermostat
right side roof rack gaskets