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View Full Version : Help! Installed K04 on a 2000 and have problems..



alen
09-14-2005, 09:03 AM
Last night I finally completed the K04 installation after running into some problems with the sec. air pump and the hoses. I put everything back, changed the oil, didn't top off the coolant since I ran out but had almost sufficient amount. Anyways, it's 2 am, about 50 degs outside. I perform TBA and go on a short 2 mile trip to see how the car drives.

I only put in the turbo, running on GIAC 93 oct with aftermarket intake, forge 007 and aftmkt. exhaust. Well I take it out, drive it slowly for a while, let the oil warm up and WOT it in 3rd until 4k rpms when I felt a surge and the car shut off the throttle. I noticed I spiked at around 20 psi (don't forget it's really cold outside) so I'm thinking I hit the limit and the car went into limp mode. And that it did. Boost didn't go over 4 psi, the car felt sluggish, and it starts overheating real bad. I barely made it home when the water temp reached the second the last hash mark!!!

I didn't install the FPR and I'm still running GIAC K03 software. AFPR and the K04 software will go in tomorrow.

Those that have 2000 models with K04, did you have this happen to you with either K03 or K04 software? I assume it shouldn't happen with the correct software but since dbw cars like to cut off the throttle at ~21psi, what should I do? I don't think I need to run MBC but if that's what I must do to remedy this problem, I will. Your opinions???

Alen

goldenchild
09-14-2005, 09:19 AM
u will need a mbc bc limp is such a pina. i hit it all the time. so ive been tuning mine right now. u shouldnt run these cars on half done projects or u can ruin stuff. u need to be patient. maybe u didnt get that coolant line on good and now its leakin bc it shouldnt over heat unless u have that problem

alen
09-14-2005, 09:53 AM
I'm really anal about some things and checking the connections is one of those things [:)] I'm sure it's the low level of coolant I had. I knew that I went for a drive with a low level but like I said, I wanted to drive it for just a few miles. More concern is placed on the limp mode I hit.

goldenchild
09-14-2005, 10:22 AM
then u need a mbc.

01'A41.8T
09-14-2005, 11:26 AM
I wouldn't jump right to a MBC. You need coolant there is no doubt. When I drained my coolant and did it I filled it to the top and started it up then it was almost empty filled it again and it was just above min filled it again and now its settled just under max. So it will take alot. Make sure all hoses are connected. I left off the inlet pipe and it would start right up and idle fine, give it gas and bang shut off, so really check your connections. It could even be the clamps you used. You could have over tightened and sliced into a hose very easily if you use the hardware store clamps. I have a 2001.5 and I just spkied at around 25 on a 3rd gear pull and I had no throttle cut or surging really [confused] I won't question it.

01'A41.8T
09-14-2005, 11:27 AM
Whats your Vac?

alen
09-14-2005, 11:35 AM
^^ I'd have to check tonight since I'm in school all day.

goldenchild
09-14-2005, 12:02 PM
u have a b6 so that could be the reson ur not seeing boost cut

01'A41.8T
09-14-2005, 12:14 PM
Negative, I am B5. I really can't figure out why its not cutting. I know my boost gauge is spot on too. I do have surging issues sometimes but someimes I don't. I think I may press my luck and get a N75H and see if I can smooth out the boost curve a little and maybe hold a little higher, sometimes I will hold 16 sometimes 20.

OutkastSL
09-14-2005, 12:15 PM
who has a b6? ^^^ alan has a b5. what n75 valve do you have? i'd try the stock one if you have a different one.

goldenchild
09-14-2005, 12:39 PM
i was talkin about 01a41.8t bc the 01.5 can be either a b6 or b5. i have a n75h and a hallman pro mbc and i spike 25 psi. it will hold it for about 2 sec then go limp. i was readin the other post on this and i think im gonna try to set it down to 18 so when im in 3rd it should pull 21 psi. also what was weird was that i melted a hose that came from the n75 to the wastegate and when id hit my mbc boost set it wouldnt act like it had a boost leak. i think thats weird as hell

OutkastSL
09-14-2005, 12:40 PM
fyi 01-01.5 a4's are still b5's.

goldenchild
09-14-2005, 03:59 PM
fyi not all of em. like i bought my 00 impala ls in 99

OutkastSL
09-14-2005, 06:08 PM
not the same...buying an 00 impala in 99 is still an 00 impala.

alen
09-14-2005, 09:28 PM
UPdate!: Tonight I filled up the coolant and my overheating issues went away :). I checked all the connections and everything was fine. Then, I put it the afpr and the gauge and decided to put in the socketed K04 chip I had. After all, I went for a test drive and I can say I really liked the result.

I didn't do a TBA immediately since I wanted to compare the car with the K03 software. I noticed that it pulled much slower with the K04 chip, but much smoother. I took it to a few WOT runs and 1st spiked at ~21 and let off at 18. 2nd gear spiked at ~25 and let off at ~20. I WOTed it in 3rd and the throttle cut off at ~4k rpm after it spiked at ~22-23 but I didn't go into limp mode. Temps were in the high 60s. It looks like I'll have to go with the MBC but we'll see how it goes after TBA and a few cold starts.

01'A41.8T
09-15-2005, 03:38 AM
What are you holding? I am spiking about the same as you but I can only hold around 15 somtimes a little more. I think I am going to try a N75H.

bitterchild
09-15-2005, 06:36 AM
you need to let the throttle body adjust everytime you cut power to the car.

docurley
09-15-2005, 07:18 AM
I would have thought also that the new software need to settle its self in before you go changing anthing, I was told about a week till its fully bed in when fitting new software in our car.

juju4uofa
09-15-2005, 07:35 AM
Are the troubles you're having because you are DBW? Not trying to steal your post but i plan on getting the K04 PC-16 for my car but I'm NDBW and I'm hoping I won't have these issues.

alen
09-15-2005, 08:21 AM
Yes. dbw likes to cut off the throttle if the ecu feels too much boost, or around 21-22psi. i have no idea how i see 25psi spikes in 2nd gear w/o any throttle cut or limp mode thereafter.



Originally posted by bitterchild
you need to let the throttle body adjust everytime you cut power to the car.

yup i know. i wanted to see how the car performs w/ and w/o TBA. i'll tell you something. when i switched from apr to giac chip i didn't do the TBA and the car felt really fast and strong compared to the apr. a few days later i worked on the car and did the TBA and the car felt noticeably slower than before. [confused]

Alen

mike-2ptzero
09-15-2005, 08:27 AM
Since your a 2000. What version of the K04 chip did you get? The J31 is what you want and will not in any way cut the throttle at all and it will run as high as 28psi. There is also a K05 file for the 2000 K04 setups from GIAC, it will run about 22psi.

alen
09-15-2005, 08:58 AM
I have the K05 file from GIAC. I won't run J31 until I install the IC pipes and due to school that won't happen for a while (gotta weld them and all) although everything is here.

mike-2ptzero
09-15-2005, 09:08 AM
That chip shouldn't cut the throttle either. Are you sure it was the throttle closing?

01'A41.8T
09-15-2005, 11:29 AM
I spike at 25 also with no throttle cut. I just can't hold very high. In first through third I will hit 20-22 drop right to 15 then tapper down to about 12.5 but in fourth and fifth I will hit 23-25 then hold 19-20. I wish every gear was like that. Do you think the n75H would do it? Like others said I think we should give it a week and see how it goes.

mike-2ptzero
09-15-2005, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by 01'A41.8T
I spike at 25 also with no throttle cut. I just can't hold very high. In first through third I will hit 20-22 drop right to 15 then tapper down to about 12.5 but in fourth and fifth I will hit 23-25 then hold 19-20. I wish every gear was like that. Do you think the n75H would do it? Like others said I think we should give it a week and see how it goes.

Which chip are you running? Because some of the tuners turn the over boost safety off within the chip. You hold more boost in 5th because there is more load and the rpms dont climb as quick, plus I dont think your taking 5th gear to redline. The most the K04 can hold to redline is 18psi but the more boost you run the lower the boost will be at redline. This is physics, speed up the wheel by running more boost and it hits max speed earlier in the rpms.

01'A41.8T
09-15-2005, 01:07 PM
I am running regular GIAC K04 software. You don't think I should be holding more than 12.5 in the lower gears? Also do you think it is strange that I don't full boost untill around 3k, I do have stock exhaust and I am sure thats why, just curious. Like at 3k all the sudden it will just take off.

mike-2ptzero
09-15-2005, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by 01'A41.8T
I am running regular GIAC K04 software. You don't think I should be holding more than 12.5 in the lower gears? Also do you think it is strange that I don't full boost untill around 3k, I do have stock exhaust and I am sure thats why, just curious. Like at 3k all the sudden it will just take off.

3k is about right. Still dont see how your hitting 25psi on a GIAC chip unless they removed the throttle cut issue on that chip you have. Do you have any logs of block 115/054 together?

goldenchild
09-15-2005, 02:04 PM
i run upsolute and ill throw a code of 170...fuel cut. this is when i stay at 25 psi. i did however fix my over boosting problem with my mbc but i hate it bc just w/o those few extra lbds of boost the car feels as if it accel slower and is all around slower

mike-2ptzero
09-15-2005, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by goldenchild
i run upsolute and ill throw a code of 170...fuel cut. this is when i stay at 25 psi. i did however fix my over boosting problem with my mbc but i hate it bc just w/o those few extra lbds of boost the car feels as if it accel slower and is all around slower

Code 170 for fuel cut? Only thing I could find is this

16554
P0170
Fuel Trim,Bank1 Malfunction


This is a fuel trim issue not fuel cut. Most likely you ran lean because you were running too much boost and the stock injectors could not give anymore fuel. BTW a car running lean is always going to feel stronger, too bad it will be a short lived hp gain.

01'A41.8T
09-15-2005, 07:31 PM
I don't have a vagcom, I really need to get ahold of one. I am interesed to see the logs as well. I believe the chip is semi older so I'm not sure how its not cutting throttle. I bought it used about 4 months ago and the guy said he had it for about 2 months.

mike-2ptzero
09-15-2005, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by 01'A41.8T
I don't have a vagcom, I really need to get ahold of one. I am interesed to see the logs as well. I believe the chip is semi older so I'm not sure how its not cutting throttle. I bought it used about 4 months ago and the guy said he had it for about 2 months.

So your not 100% sure if it is or isn't closing the throttle? Because the only way to know if it is closing is by using a vag. All of the GIAC K04 chips for the 2001 will close the throttle when the boost sensor reads more then 1.5 bar. What you said here "but in fourth and fifth I will hit 23-25 then hold 19-20" is basicly the ecu closing the throttle after it hits 23-25psi.

01'A41.8T
09-15-2005, 08:26 PM
Ok, I was misunderstood. I was under the impression that if the throttle was closing I would know it right away. So if I can hit 23-25 in fifth and then hold 19-20 after the throttle close why can't I hold higher in first through third?

mike-2ptzero
09-15-2005, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by 01'A41.8T
Ok, I was misunderstood. I was under the impression that if the throttle was closing I would know it right away. So if I can hit 23-25 in fifth and then hold 19-20 after the throttle close why can't I hold higher in first through third?

There is less engine load in lower gears which is why requested boost tends to be lower and the ecu calls for less fuel. Look at the load readings on block 002 when doing different gear pulls. In 5th gear you wont really notice the throttle closing since it will close to about 40% and still allow air to flow past it, this means you will only see a slight drop in boost till the ecu no longer gets the 5 volt reading from the map sensor or you lift off the throttle and get back on it.

C280 jr
09-16-2005, 11:06 AM
im never gonna get a ride in that cute turbo powered audi...[wrench]

Elvir

alen
09-16-2005, 11:13 AM
I will try to do some data logging today but this morning I WOTed in 2nd gear and boost went up to 25psi and it cut off the throttle. About 70-75 degs outside at the time.

mike-2ptzero
09-16-2005, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by alen
I will try to do some data logging today but this morning I WOTed in 2nd gear and boost went up to 25psi and it cut off the throttle. About 70-75 degs outside at the time.

Your running a bigger turbo right? If so you really should look into going with a EBC to hold it below 21psi. If your going to run the MBC, just turn it all the way down to about 15psi and move upward a little at a time till you get around 19-20psi.

alen
09-16-2005, 11:43 PM
I just bought the MBC so I will be installing that when it gets here. I drove around a little tonight and WOTed in every gear. I noticed that it runs really strong until ~4200 rpm when it cuts off the throttle. Doesn't matter what I spike or let off at, it will cut off the throttle at that engine speed every time in every gear.

???


Oh, and my f******* rearview mirror decided to poop out on me tonight [headbang]

mike-2ptzero
09-17-2005, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by alen
I just bought the MBC so I will be installing that when it gets here. I drove around a little tonight and WOTed in every gear. I noticed that it runs really strong until ~4200 rpm when it cuts off the throttle. Doesn't matter what I spike or let off at, it will cut off the throttle at that engine speed every time in every gear.

???


Oh, and my f******* rearview mirror decided to poop out on me tonight [headbang]

When this happens do you get any lights on the dash, like the EPC light?

alen
09-17-2005, 08:18 AM
no sir.

audisnapr
09-17-2005, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by alen
Oh, and my f******* rearview mirror decided to poop out on me tonight [headbang]

mine just did that a month back or so... ended up buying one of those 300mm, convex Broadway mirrors. Helps with the blind spot, but it takes some getting used to. "Objects are closer than they appear"

alen
09-17-2005, 08:30 AM
Here's a topic being discussed on AW

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/2398900.phtml

mike-2ptzero
09-17-2005, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by alen
no sir.


Do you have any logs showing your throttle closing with the J31? In all these years I have never seen the J31 ever close the throttle, could be that it is caused by another issue other then boost level.

alen
09-17-2005, 05:40 PM
sorry mike, J31 is not installed yet. This is happening with regular GIAC K05 software. I don't have any logs yet. My laptop is infected with viruses and I need to figure out how to save some critical stuff on it before I reformat it. Damn thing won't even turn on.

IC piping is holding me back right now as far as J31.

mike-2ptzero
09-18-2005, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by alen
sorry mike, J31 is not installed yet. This is happening with regular GIAC K05 software. I don't have any logs yet. My laptop is infected with viruses and I need to figure out how to save some critical stuff on it before I reformat it. Damn thing won't even turn on.

IC piping is holding me back right now as far as J31.

Oh your running the K05 file? Makes a little more sense because it was tuned for 22psi or less, so they might not have removed the throttle cut on that chip.

alen
09-23-2005, 06:41 PM
Well I have finally gotten the laptop running straight but need to reactivate my copy of Vagcom. I did go out and I got some data that I'm not happy with.

Power still cuts off right at around 4300rpm in every gear. It pulls smoothly and I just installed some fresh BRK7E before the runs.

I found out that my max MAF reading was ~145-150 g/s at 4200-4300rpm and probably due to the loss of power, it falls down rapidly to 50-60 g/s at WOT after 4300 rpm. Engine load approached 180% up to the power cut at 4.2k rpm where it also let off at ~80% after that, still at WOT. Also, throttle angle would get cut right at the power loss rpms from 100% to ~5-10%.

Any insight into this issue? Is the software bad? It is GIAC 018P_K05.08A

I will log more data as soon as possible.

http://www.vizualflux.com/linkedpics/readings_9-20.jpg

Thanks,
Alen

mike-2ptzero
09-23-2005, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by alen
Well I have finally gotten the laptop running straight but need to reactivate my copy of Vagcom. I did go out and I got some data that I'm not happy with.

Power still cuts off right at around 4300rpm in every gear. It pulls smoothly and I just installed some fresh BRK7E before the runs.

I found out that my max MAF reading was ~145-150 g/s at 4200-4300rpm and probably due to the loss of power, it falls down rapidly to 50-60 g/s at WOT after 4300 rpm. Engine load approached 180% up to the power cut at 4.2k rpm where it also let off at ~80% after that, still at WOT. Also, throttle angle would get cut right at the power loss rpms from 100% to ~5-10%.

Any insight into this issue? Is the software bad? It is GIAC 018P_K05.08A

I will log more data as soon as possible.

http://www.vizualflux.com/linkedpics/readings_9-20.jpg

Thanks,
Alen

Next time you make a graph from your vag spreadsheet, just make the rpms your x axis.


Also you should log 115 to see if there is a big gap between the requested and actual boost.

alen
10-01-2005, 02:09 PM
ok, what exactly do i need to log? i logged a bunch of stuff last night and here is req vs act boost. now, i have no idea how i get these numbers. it's obviously wrong.

http://www.vizualflux.com/linkedpics/reqvsactK04oct.jpg

alen

alen
10-01-2005, 02:31 PM
here is a sample of block 020, timing pull

http://www.vizualflux.com/linkedpics/block020timingoct.jpg


lambda req vs actual, block 031

http://www.vizualflux.com/linkedpics/lambdareqvsactoct.jpg


block 114, WG duty cycle

http://www.vizualflux.com/linkedpics/wgdutycycleoct.jpg

mike-2ptzero
10-01-2005, 03:25 PM
Most of this info doesnt do any good without any rpms to go with them. This is why you should always do combo blocks during the logs. Also how do you get a actual/requested 02 reading on block 031 with the 2000 if the readings from block 031 is pre 02 and post 02.


You only want to look at the WOT section of a run log since that is the most important part of the info. So when doing logs use 003 along with the other block you want to get info from. Like these.
003-031
003-020
003-114
003-115


Alen if you want just send me some files that you have and I can go over them with you and post up some graphs if you want.

alen
10-01-2005, 03:53 PM
sure Mike. i have trouble plotting RPMs in the x axis. most of the lines get screwy then. i will send you some excel files to your comcast address.

alen

mike-2ptzero
10-01-2005, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by alen
sure Mike. i have trouble plotting RPMs in the x axis. most of the lines get screwy then. i will send you some excel files to your comcast address.

alen

ok. I will keep an eye for them.