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RallyeBourne
02-23-2015, 10:39 AM
1999 1.8TQM
176,000mi
k0mpressd tune
TP
ICM Delete/FSi coils

Hey Guys,
Definitely need some help, the fiancÚ is getting irritated and already wants me to sell the car. I'll try to put this in a easy to follow timeline, but I'm at my wits end so bare with me.
Car was running tits with my k0mpressd tune and stock cat (tune has rear o2 coded out). So I decided to finally pull the trigger on a Manzo Test Pipe. fitment was just okay, but the hardware was slightly too big. Got new hardware and installed it. It placed the primary o2 sensor very close to the exhaust manifold. I started experiencing this issue. Occasionally, upon taking off, the car will start to sputter and go super rich ~9.2-9.5 afr. If I take my foot off the gas, idle will dip from 900 to 300 and back up, and eventually stall. When I restart the car, the issue is gone. Also, when the car starts to do it, I can turn it off before it stalls, restart it and all will be well. I replaced my cam position sensor since I knew my connector was cracked. Problem persists. I bought a new o2 sensor and a new o2 sensor bung, plugged the primary port, and welded the new bung into a position farther from the manifold and downstream a little from the turbo (thinking I'm just overheating the o2 sensor). I also heat wrapped the testpipe and coated it with the silicone stuff made for exhaust wrap. Problem persists.

What. The. Fuck.

Obviously, the spark to ignite the powder keg was installing the testpipe. But with the rear o2 coded out, I don't see how that could be the culprit. If I'm wrong, educate me.

I can't keep throwing money into it blindly. I normally try to figure these things out on my own, but I'm out of ideas. [headbang]
MAF? N75? Leak? 710?
I have VCDS and can do logs of whatever you guys need, only limited by the free version.

It's hard to defend the car to the lady when it has a persistent problem. I refuse to sell the car, I just don't want to lose a fiancÚ over it.

EDIT: Car is not throwing any codes.

RallyeBourne
02-23-2015, 11:56 AM
Just tried unplugging the MAF, car ran like shit and stalled. Couldn't keep it running.

MetalMan
02-23-2015, 12:11 PM
Just tried unplugging the MAF, car ran like shit and stalled. Couldn't keep it running.

Try clearing codes (to clear fuel trims) and then unplug the MAF. If it still runs like crap then there's definitely something going on.
Speaking of fuel trims, what are they?

RallyeBourne
02-23-2015, 02:19 PM
Cleared and unplugged. Car is holding now. Since the real issue is intermittent, I'll have to roll like this for a bit to see if it comes back.

RallyeBourne
02-23-2015, 02:55 PM
Nope, came back. Problem is becoming more and more frequent. To the point that turning the car off and back on doesn't always make it go away. Which inspires confidence when I'm 76 miles from home and it's raining. Yay.

Also noticed an oddity. When I replaced the o2 sensor, I cleared the ecu. But before I cleared today, I accidentally clicked on readiness, and the oxygen sensor circuit was "failed or imcomplete." I've ALWAYS had all passing. And upon previous clearings, I've always reset all monitors to passing within a day. Now, weeks later and with and brand new Bosch o2 sensor I'm failing? What the hell.

MetalMan
02-23-2015, 03:23 PM
Just to get the "obvious" things out of the way:
-boost leak test?
-checked DV for apparent proper operation?
-no exhaust leaks between engine and primary O2 sensor? (manifold gasket, turbo gasket, cat gasket)

Which O2 sensor did you buy? On my 1998.5 I bought the primary O2 sensor for a 1998.0 by accident, and it failed readiness check. I believe the correct sensor for your car (1998.5-1999.5) is Bosch 15160 (http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-15160-Oxygen-Sensor-Fitment/dp/B000BZI3H6).

RallyeBourne
02-23-2015, 03:24 PM
Caught a video of the issue.

Idle Issue - B5 A4 1.8T: http://youtu.be/a419AZwLKto

RallyeBourne
02-23-2015, 03:31 PM
Just to get the "obvious" things out of the way:
-boost leak test?
-checked DV for apparent proper operation?

Which O2 sensor did you buy? On my 1998.5 I bought the primary O2 sensor for a 1998.0 by accident, and it failed readiness check. I believe the correct sensor for your car (1998.5-1999.5) is Bosch 15160 (http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-15160-Oxygen-Sensor-Fitment/dp/B000BZI3H6).

I did a leak test when the issue first started, but I've replaced a few things since then. I should do another. It's always possible I knocked something loose.

I have not checked the DV. I will do that in the morning. What am I looking for specifically? How would I know it's malfunctioning, aside from obvious tears?

I bought 15160.

RallyeBourne
02-24-2015, 09:59 AM
No leaks found. DV seems fine.

Car just keeps getting worse. Can't drive it today at all. Fuck.

RallyeBourne
02-24-2015, 10:12 AM
It has to be something electrical, right? Why else would turning the car off and back on reset it? Granted, that doesn't seem to work anymore, but still. If it was mechanical (leaks, etc.), it would have been present all the time. So what sensors could cause this? Bad MAF? I cleaned it this morning and it didn't get any better. Crank position sensor? Throttle position sensor?

MetalMan
02-24-2015, 10:49 AM
Have you tried a forced throttle body alignment? (not sure if VCDS Lite can do it)
TPS is part of the throttle body assembly, and is something you can log with VCDS.
Could very well be the throttle body going south; there is a motor in there that controls idle.

EDIT: I will admit, I haven't seen the video. Youtube doesn't function on my work computer and I don't usually have time to check the forums at home.

BaseDrifter
02-24-2015, 10:53 AM
Just from that video it looks like a serious misfire, might be worth trying new plugs/coil packs? That doesn't look like something doing a throttle body alignment will fix to me..but it's always worth a shot.

RallyeBourne
02-24-2015, 11:13 AM
Didn't think about that. I'll pick up some new plugs and swap them in tonight when I get home. VCDS Lite can do TBA, but only on registered version ($99). I've been putting it off for too long. Time to pay the $99.

RallyeBourne
02-24-2015, 07:09 PM
Switched out the plugs for new bkr7e's. Dropped the gap from .040" to .036". Car is drivable now. Wasn't this morning. We shall see when I take her to work tomorrow.

MetalMan
02-25-2015, 08:06 AM
How did the old plugs look, and do you have an idea how long they were in there? (were those also BKR7E?)
In for updates.

RallyeBourne
02-25-2015, 12:50 PM
Plugs looked decent. Little dark, but not bad. And gaps were all still correct, except #3 was .038". Also, cyl 3 plug came out with no force from the ratchet. Was threaded in, but very loose.

My drive to work today was okay. No idle issues, but my afr's varied between 13's to 15's at idle, where I'm normally right at high 14 to very low 15.

MetalMan
02-25-2015, 01:28 PM
Plugs looked decent. Little dark, but not bad. And gaps were all still correct, except #3 was .038". Also, cyl 3 plug came out with no force from the ratchet. Was threaded in, but very loose.

My drive to work today was okay. No idle issues, but my afr's varied between 13's to 15's at idle, where I'm normally right at high 14 to very low 15.

AFR should vary from rich to lean during normal closed loop driving when the ECU uses a narrowband primary sensor. 13 does seem a little rich but since you recently reset the ECU (by clearing codes) it may just need time to adapt the fuel mixture.
Just out of curiosity, is compression good?

RallyeBourne
02-25-2015, 05:16 PM
Haven't done a compression test since this issue popped up. (Did one right before deleting ICM many months ago). I'll do a check tomorrow.

RallyeBourne
02-25-2015, 09:06 PM
Welp. She acted up a bit on the way home. Same symptoms: sitting at a light, car warm (climatronic screen read 90* C), afr drops to 9, car stumbles and recovers, stumbles and recovers.

Avant Nate
02-25-2015, 10:03 PM
leaking injector? Are you getting misfires in any particular cylinder? Vcds should tell you

RallyeBourne
02-27-2015, 08:55 AM
Since all the plugs looked good, http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/60e161bac8029d4c49aedd19cd3239b4.jpg

I talked to my old service manager. He suggested an exhaust leak. He told me to run a seafoam treatment through, because I'll be able to see the smoke coming out any leaks.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/db6f22182358ca3ccb6ce7bc11b4910b.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/79ab552b5cb47fabc14c8ec381f57735.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/59bda76e8d7680a1bb5955fc10ce7dac.jpg

Really hoping that's a gasket issue, not a cracked exhaust mani or turbo housing.

RallyeBourne
02-28-2015, 10:41 AM
Picking up the gaskets today. I really hope that's all it is. I don't want to have to buy a new turbo now, only to have to upgrade later.

RallyeBourne
03-05-2015, 01:48 PM
Working two jobs REALLY gets in the way of things...

But, I brought my B5 to work to start pulling it apart. Started working on it on my lunch yesterday, got most of the shit out of the way. Today, I got the mani>turbo bolts off. Amazingly, I didn't shear any of them! Took some damn work though. Lots of torch, pb blaster, and back and forth. Def replacing that hardware though.

RallyeBourne
03-05-2015, 05:41 PM
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/05/5c994d1ac51577d350672c8bc0cc3de9.jpg

you can see the blow by here

MetalMan
03-06-2015, 05:26 PM
Soooo.... it's fixed?

RallyeBourne
03-06-2015, 05:32 PM
Yes and no. Fixed the gasket. Holding better boost pressure. BUT, while running it to burn of the peanut butter blaster, I noticed fuel in my boost gauge line. It's tapped off the fpr. So that's obviously gone bad. That could be my real issue, not the gasket. We shall see when the new fpr gets in.

ElliottG
03-06-2015, 05:58 PM
My dad has a very similar problem with his 2.0 Golf...interested to see the fix...good luck! Keep us posted.

B44
03-06-2015, 06:07 PM
can it be carbon buildup?

RallyeBourne
03-07-2015, 08:44 PM
Definitely not fixed. Just did it again. I think it's the fpr.

As for carbon buildup, I doubt it it would take a hell of a lot to do this, and looking down the plug wells, there isn't much buildup.

Guess the car sits at work until the new fpr comes in... I miss my baby... :(

RallyeBourne
03-07-2015, 08:45 PM
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/07/8843745928ee2cd5e80c08ca4297e8ae.jpg

ricekikr
03-08-2015, 08:08 AM
Have you tried disconnecting the n80-intake manifold hose (plug intake and keep n80 just open)? In my b5 it caused the engine to stall in the middle of the road (pegged my afr gauge - rich), in my previous non-audi it caused erratic idle, engine quitting, rough running (didn't have a wideband).

Non-audi - the valve didn't close, upon dissection the seal that seals the valve was rotted.
In the b5 - it was still sealing, don't know why it caused to run rich. Just disconnected it, started the car back-up and never re-connected it.

RallyeBourne
03-08-2015, 02:26 PM
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/08/26a563ff83368eab54247c1feeb6802d.jpg

This little chingadera? So I just plug the intake side, and leave it connected?

RallyeBourne
03-13-2015, 09:07 AM
For the first time since I've been using them, I'm very disappointed in Autohausaz.com. I placed my order last week, and it finally shipped out Wednesday evening, and won't be here until next tuesday. I've never had it take any more than a day to ship out, and two days to arrive, but I always count on a week. Now we're looking at nearly two weeks. Kinda pissed.

RallyeBourne
03-14-2015, 08:33 AM
So I got home yesterday, and my shit was there. Which is odd, considering the tracking info shows its still about 100 miles away. But whatever.

Put the new fpr in, and low and behold, I'm still having issues. But they're different issues. Now I keep going lean at part throttle, but full throttle gives me perfect afr, as well as all of my boost back. I'm hitting 17psi, holding 16psi. I'm going to try to do a smoke test today or tomorrow at work. See if there's any leakage.

RallyeBourne
03-14-2015, 08:04 PM
Perhaps, I should remember to clear my fucked up fuel trims when I make changes. Did so today, and she's back! Running great, boost is back, idles perfect. I'm stoked.

ricekikr
03-15-2015, 06:49 PM
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/08/26a563ff83368eab54247c1feeb6802d.jpg

This little chingadera? So I just plug the intake side, and leave it connected?

Yup.


Perhaps, I should remember to clear my fucked up fuel trims when I make changes. Did so today, and she's back! Running great, boost is back, idles perfect. I'm stoked.

Good. I just ordered one a few days ago hopefully it fixes mine too.

RallyeBourne
03-16-2015, 09:15 AM
Yeah... my issue persists... Happened twice on my way to work today.

I fucking quit.

RallyeBourne
03-16-2015, 09:45 AM
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/16/41f8856e65abb6f8d15e7753b53f452a.jpg

Thinking of just replacing these two. Just tired of blindly throwing money at it.

MetalMan
03-16-2015, 10:17 AM
I may have a spare Bosch N80 (EVAP Purge Solenoid) in my parts bin, that I swapped out as part of my "throwing parts at it until it's fixed" for my old AEB car. The N80 wasn't the problem so my old one should still be fine.

I'm pretty sure it's there, and if it is you're more than welcome to try it out. If it solves your problem (and you keep it) I would only ask for $15.
Can bring it with me to work tomorrow too.

Also the"BWD Vacuum Control Solenoid", if the picture is correct, is the suction jet pump. I am pretty sure your car doesn't have one?? (only ATW/AWM manual/automatic and AEB automatic cars have it)

RallyeBourne
03-16-2015, 10:19 AM
That would be amazing. I still owe you beer from the last time you helped me, too. What's your poison?

MetalMan
03-16-2015, 10:38 AM
That would be amazing. I still owe you beer from the last time you helped me, too. What's your poison?

Just hope I still have it, though I can't imagine throwing away a good part... anyways I like this:
http://www.deschutesbrewery.com/brew/black-butte-porter
Would actually trade the N80 for a 6-pack! I've only seen it in Stater Bros, but apparently Vons should have it too.

RallyeBourne
03-16-2015, 10:43 AM
Done. Text me if you find it. (I lost your number when I switched over to android from iphone, not all my contacts transferred over.)

MetalMan
03-16-2015, 11:09 AM
Will do. Think I still have your number: 7*0-42*-**00 (replace stars with actual numbers). Is that right? I never added you as a contact for some-odd reason.
Will you be in Santa Ana/Costa Mesa area today or tomorrow?

RallyeBourne
03-16-2015, 11:10 AM
Correct on the number, the name is Matt. I'll be there tomorrow. In Ontario and Fontucky today.

MetalMan
03-16-2015, 11:46 AM
Got it, made sure to add you this time. Set up a calendar reminder so I [hopefully] won't forget. Will text you later.

RallyeBourne
03-16-2015, 07:25 PM
I'm thinking maybe bad 710 or stuck fuel injector(s). Why else would it go SO rich? Stuck fuel injector would dump way too much fuel, while a bad 710 would just keep recirculating the air. Either could result in a lean condition.

But what gets me is that upon changing out the fpr (which was obviously bad and leaking fuel back into the vac line), the car started running super lean because of running so rich. Once I cleared trims, the car ran great for a day and a half.

Maybe it's a problem with the tune? Putting the stock ecu back in will give me a code from no rear o2, but maybe it'll help for diagnostic purposes...

MetalMan
03-17-2015, 07:32 AM
Maybe it's a problem with the tune? Putting the stock ecu back in will give me a code from no rear o2, but maybe it'll help for diagnostic purposes...

That could be a huge help, especially if you already have a stocK ECU laying around. If not, there goes another $50 lol.
A bad 710(N?) would probably cause a loss of boost, but I don't think it would cause the mixture to change especially at part throttle since all the air is metered anyways.

Bad EVAP purge solenoid could (I think) in theory cause partial rich conditions mostly at very low load/idle since it dumps fuel vapors into the intake.

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 11:20 AM
So I put my stock ecu in this morning, still happened. Also, I'm failing evap readiness. I'm hoping your evap solenoid does the trick. Beer well spent, if so.

MetalMan
03-17-2015, 11:39 AM
So I put my stock ecu in this morning, still happened. Also, I'm failing evap readiness. I'm hoping your evap solenoid does the trick. Beer well spent, if so.

Well, hopefully it will.
And just to be sure, it's actually failing EVAP readiness? Or is it just not set yet? Are you doing the forced readiness check with VCDS? (asking because EVAP readiness can take some time to set when left alone)

pbcrazy
03-17-2015, 11:56 AM
Just remove the hose leading the the n80 valve and plug it, you will get a code and fail readiness but it won't do anything driveability-wise (leave the hose coming from the rear and the electrical connector). If it's bad then your AFR's should go back to normal, if not then you wasted 5 minutes and have to clear a code.

Also you are probably failing readiness right now because you just swapped ECUs, it takes around 50 miles for it to reset after removing ECU/battery

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 01:18 PM
Negative, ghostrider. Not the evap. If you need me, I'll be in a corner crying.

pbcrazy
03-17-2015, 01:54 PM
Ok I'm just catching up, how do you have your wideband sensor wired in? Also when were you coils put in/last changed?

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 02:05 PM
No, I have a test pipe, so I have the oem primary sensor in the primary port, and the wideband sensor in the secondary port. Rear o2 sensor is coded out. Been talking to a buddy of mine, hes working for a tuner now, but is far from the end all, be all. However, he said sometimes, if the car is not tuned for catless, even if the rear o2 is coded out, it can cause issues. I sent a PM to k0mpresd to ask. And I apparently need to make sure my MAF is straight up and down. I'm not positive it is. So that will be next.

pbcrazy
03-17-2015, 02:11 PM
However, he said sometimes, if the car is not tuned for catless, even if the rear o2 is coded out, it can cause issues.
Half the people on this forum run catless with no issues, I run catless (in the stock position anyway, I relocated it) and my tune is not coded for it. And besides, if you have the rear o2 coded out then the tune was made to be catless anyway.

And I apparently need to make sure my MAF is straight up and down.
Definitely not true, the sensor doesn't care. Mine is upside down to hide the wires, no issues in 1.5 years.

I don't think you have an exhaust leak, because none of the things you have tried should have made any effect on it if you do. Same with boost leak. However, if you have the stock cat I would swap it back in and see if it is back to normal (just to rule out the test pipe and confirm it's just a coincidence of timing)

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 02:14 PM
Half the people on this forum run catless with no issues, I run catless (in the stock position anyway, I relocated it) and my tune is not coded for it. And besides, if you have the rear o2 coded out then the tune was made to be catless anyway.

That's kind of what I thought to. And why I included that his opinion is not the end all, be all.


Definitely not true, the sensor doesn't care. Mine is upside down to hide the wires, no issues in 1.5 years.

Isn't upside down still up and down, technically? I think mine is at about 30*. I'll have to double check.

pbcrazy
03-17-2015, 02:30 PM
I mean when I say upside down it's not like I have it at a perfect 90* perpendicular to the car chassis, it doesn't care what orientation it is in.

MetalMan
03-17-2015, 02:31 PM
When you're talking about MAF being upside down, you don't mean O2 sensor, do you?
O2 sensor needs to be above 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, but yours looked like they.
I agree that MAF sensor shouldn't care about its orientation. I too ran mine upside-down (while the cone filter was in there) to hide wires. But it would be easy enough to rotate MAF and test this theory.

Unplugging the MAF would be a good test for a number of other things... particularly boost/vacuum leaks.
Have you driven the car far enough with the MAF unplugged to see if the problem will occur? It would be in limp mode the whole time but since the issue sounds like it's at lower loads/idle, this should be fine.

Also may be worth hooking a vacuum line directly between FPR/manifold if you can live without your boost gauge for a short time.

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 02:42 PM
When you're talking about MAF being upside down, you don't mean O2 sensor, do you?
O2 sensor needs to be above 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, but yours looked like they.
I agree that MAF sensor shouldn't care about its orientation. I too ran mine upside-down (while the cone filter was in there) to hide wires. But it would be easy enough to rotate MAF and test this theory.

Unplugging the MAF would be a good test for a number of other things... particularly boost/vacuum leaks.
Have you driven the car far enough with the MAF unplugged to see if the problem will occur? It would be in limp mode the whole time but since the issue sounds like it's at lower loads/idle, this should be fine.

Also may be worth hooking a vacuum line directly between FPR/manifold if you can live without your boost gauge for a short time.

I did mean MAF, not o2. Not sure if you were asking me or pb.
I'll rotate MAF to up and down, just to say I ruled it out. I did unplug the MAF and cleared fuel trims, and the issue still happened.
I'll hook a vac line up to the fpr and intake mani and see what happens.

Again guys, thank you.

pbcrazy
03-17-2015, 02:49 PM
I did mean MAF, not o2. Not sure if you were asking me or pb.
I'll rotate MAF to up and down, just to say I ruled it out. I did unplug the MAF and cleared fuel trims, and the issue still happened.
I'll hook a vac line up to the fpr and intake mani and see what happens.

Again guys, thank you.

Did you unplug the MAF without clearing the fuel trims? The whole point of unplugging the MAF is it uses the stored trims to run the car, if you clear them then it will always run like shit

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 02:54 PM
At first, I unplugged without clearing the codes. The car ran for about 45 seconds before dying. Then, someone on here (don't remember who) told me to clear trims and unplug maf. Car ran fine until the rich issue happened again.

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 02:55 PM
Hey, what's vac at idle supposed to be? I feel like it's normally at ~20 in for me, but I just looked up at it and I'm at 18. Afr is fine though. I really need to do a smoke test...

EDIT: Turned off ac, and went back down to 21 in. Never noticed that before, but never really looked for it either.

MetalMan
03-17-2015, 03:19 PM
Then, someone on here (don't remember who) told me to clear trims and unplug maf.

Bet you can guess who [;)] (I think it was me lol)


Hey, what's vac at idle supposed to be? I feel like it's normally at ~20 in for me, but I just looked up at it and I'm at 18. Afr is fine though. I really need to do a smoke test...

EDIT: Turned off ac, and went back down to 21 in. Never noticed that before, but never really looked for it either.

The AC may actually be a point of consideration here... it places a lot of load on the engine especially at idle, and the throttle body's electronics will do what they can to maintain a steady idle.
Can you comment on whether this issue is more prevalent with AC on? Do you usually have the AC on? Does it ever not happen with the AC off?

Your vacuum numbers sounds about right to me.

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 03:22 PM
Bet you can guess who [;)] (I think it was me lol)



The AC may actually be a point of consideration here... it places a lot of load on the engine especially at idle, and the throttle body's electronics will do what they can to maintain a steady idle.
Can you comment on whether or not this issue occurs with and without AC on? Do you usually have the AC on?

Your vacuum numbers sounds about right to me.
Hm. Well I know for a fact that today and yesterday the air conditioning was on. However, before that, I am not sure.

pbcrazy
03-17-2015, 03:25 PM
Hm. Well I know for a fact that today and yesterday the air conditioning was on. However, before that, I am not sure.
Definitely test that out. The increased load it puts on the engine can seriously increase the effect of any vacuum/exhaust leaks you may have.

MetalMan
03-17-2015, 03:37 PM
Definitely test that out. The increased load it puts on the engine can seriously increase the effect of any vacuum/exhaust leaks you may have.

Indeed. Didn't even think of this before since this whole weekend (despite 90 deg. weather) I only used AC while wife was in the car. I can't stand the 1st gear [FrankenTurbo] lag with it on lol

pbcrazy
03-17-2015, 03:41 PM
Indeed. Didn't even think of this before since this whole weekend (despite 90 deg. weather) I only used AC while wife was in the car. I can't stand the 1st gear [FrankenTurbo] lag with it on lol

I can't remember the last time I've used A/C other than just on the highway to keep all the seals from drying out for a few minutes. I normally just roll with the sunroof tilted and windows down, partially because of the power loss and partially because the flywheel chatter gets old. Granted I hardly ever use more than 6-7 psi anyway lol

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 03:51 PM
This is starting to make a lot of sense... I hate AC. But my driver side regulator went out mid-late Jan. Coincidentally, I bought the test pipe Jan 26...

pbcrazy
03-17-2015, 03:55 PM
This is starting to make a lot of sense... I hate AC. But my driver side regulator went out mid-late Jan. Coincidentally, I bought the test pipe Jan 26...

Probably just the clips, but thats a different issue lol. Sounds like this could be the issue, but you still have a leak or something else going on. A/C doesn't cause this by itself

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 03:56 PM
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/17/88177dc5c12c621ccb54a811120d95e6.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/17/8edf4e3161cad4e413b72ac206b243f6.jpg
It happened while logging (been logging for about 50 miles, lol). This is blocks 3, 4, and 6.

pbcrazy
03-17-2015, 04:00 PM
Your IATs are quite high, what was the ambient temperature that day? Also have you calibrated your wideband?

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 04:00 PM
I'm thinking MAF. Normally, I'm at 3.5g/s - 5g/s at idle, depending on ac or no ac. Now, the car starts running Uber rich, yet the maf is reading 12g/s?

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 04:02 PM
Your IATs are quite high, what was the ambient temperature that day?
It's about 85 right now, but I sat in a parking lot idling for a few minutes before this happened, and I have no heat shield right now.

pbcrazy
03-17-2015, 04:02 PM
I'm thinking MAF. Normally, I'm at 3.5g/s - 5g/s at idle, depending on ac or no ac. Now, the car starts running Uber rich, yet the maf is reading 12g/s?

With A/C on 12 g/s doesn't sound unreasonable. But unplug your MAF and leave your AC off and see how it runs

RallyeBourne
03-17-2015, 05:11 PM
I went through the log, and each time it fumbled and went rich (happened twice, stalling the first time), the maf shot up to 12g/s. When idling normally, maf was 5-6g/s. Also, it took about 3 min of idling for it to do it. Now, I turned off and kept off my ac, and the car has been idling for about 20 min now issue free. New theory: ac is too much for the maf to handle in its current state.

The worst part? There was a maf at the junkyard yesterday that I debated picking up, but decided against it...

MetalMan
03-18-2015, 07:46 AM
New theory: ac is too much for the maf to handle in its current state.

Well, sounds like AC seems to be too much for something to handle. Not sure if I'd go pointing fingers at the MAF (yet) but that could be the culprit. Wonder if perhaps the AC compressor is the cause.

RallyeBourne
03-18-2015, 08:05 AM
It happened again last night... with the ac off...

MetalMan
03-18-2015, 08:15 AM
Oh boy. I'm going with throttle body lol.

ricekikr
03-18-2015, 08:56 AM
Even with the AC stucked up, your afrs wouldn't change much. It should still be near stoich (after trims). Definitely no where near 9afr.

I'd check why your maf values (broken?) are high and why the corresponding inj value is (could be correction maps). Accdg to vagcom the only ms in blocks 1-9 is inj mean time. Find out what inj times, stock injector cars are getting.

Mine's been tweaked a bit and your running twice as inj time as I am in idle (7g/s and 2.15ms vs your 12g/s and 4.55ms). My MAF values are not stock (because mafless, ecu still thinks I have a maf), but the rpm-maf-injector time relationship is.

pbcrazy
03-18-2015, 09:02 AM
Oh boy. I'm going with throttle body lol.

I concur. I'm assuming you have already removed the TB, cleaned it, replaced the gasket, and did a TBA? If not then do that.

RallyeBourne
03-18-2015, 09:41 AM
Here is the log. It was super long, so I shortened it to the two areas that the issue occurred. However, the other data is all just hidden, so it's there if you want to look at it for comparison. Also, I highlighted the MAF values, TB angle, and injector timing in red for easy identification.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19VZqdWEYZvDYUnzWTqCyFR0WZwuFTBobicGqo2Pkk3g/edit#gid=515242629

All values seem to go up together. But that cant actually be the case. If the inj timing increased because the air increased, then my AFR should remain close to stoich. But (in my mind, at least), if the inj timing goes up because the ecu THINKS the air increased, that would net me rich.

RallyeBourne
03-18-2015, 09:43 AM
I concur. I'm assuming you have already removed the TB, cleaned it, replaced the gasket, and did a TBA? If not then do that.

I can't do a tba on the free version of vcds. I need to suck it up and pay the $99...

pbcrazy
03-18-2015, 09:49 AM
Turning the key for a few minutes works as long as you disconnect the battery right before hand and you don't touch the petals.

RallyeBourne
03-18-2015, 09:28 PM
Anybody look at the log yet?

MetalMan
03-19-2015, 08:02 AM
Anybody look at the log yet?

You're not making it too easy for us lol. Just "requested access" to the file.

RallyeBourne
03-19-2015, 08:06 AM
Oops, lol. I added you.

EDIT: Made it public.

MetalMan
03-19-2015, 08:23 AM
Was your AC on during the log? I'm seeing at time stamp 2788.51 seconds that the engine was idling for a little bit, with MAF value 3.96 g/s. Then as it continues idling the MAF value slowly increases to 6.67 g/s, and injector duty cycle also increases.

This could even be due to auxiliary components forcing the engine to work harder, like the alternator. The alternator will put a relatively large load on the engine at idle, and if the alternator and/or battery are weak then I can imagine this sort of behavior happening. Have you watched the voltage gauge (or logged voltage with VCDS) while it stumbles/stalls?

I see where MAF values stayed at ~12 g/s and just sat there with the engine at idle. Was this while the AC was on?

As pbcrazy mentioned, have you cleaned the throttle body? It's worth a try if you haven't, just to rule it out (and it's nearly free to try). I generally re-use the existing TB gasket and haven't noticed any problems with that.

RallyeBourne
03-19-2015, 10:54 AM
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B15BgLBAHqwhcGtDcnBPVU0xQjg/edit?usp=docslist_api

pbcrazy
03-19-2015, 11:06 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems your readings were about 5-7 g/s (which is normal) until the rpm's stumble and cause it to rise to 12g/s as an attempt to correct the idle. Then as the stumble continues to happen it opens the TB back up to the 12 g/s as this causes the rpms to stay more stable. Therefore I don't think the high MAF reading is so much a cause as it is an ECU compensating for whatever is causing the rpm problem. I think you have a vacuum leak somewhere

RallyeBourne
03-19-2015, 04:55 PM
Okay, so this morning I cleaned tb and cycled the key in a hope to realign it. But it still happened on the way to work. So I went against my golden rule of being the only one to work on my car and I had my guys do a diag at work. I just don't have time. They did a vac test, and found that a vacuum cap coming off the check valve to the brake booster was cracked and leaking, and the booster hose itself was collapsing under pressure. So we replaced those, and we will see. They weren't able to get the car to do it, but hopefully those two little issues fix it.

On another note, this morning I was finally able to find the loose control arm causing my shaking at speed and clunking when turning. So that's good.

RallyeBourne
03-19-2015, 10:18 PM
Damnit! Did it again...

RallyeBourne
03-19-2015, 11:04 PM
I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and replace the maf tomorrow. I can get a new one for about $100 through work.

But explain this whole 'unplug the maf' thing to me. I've been looking online (nobody lies on the interwebs), and it seems as though the car should stall out a few moments after unplugging it. If it does, maf is still good. If it keeps running, maf is shot. Is that the case?

ray4624
03-19-2015, 11:25 PM
Yes, exactly (not necessarily stall but run like shit if maf is good.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RallyeBourne
03-19-2015, 11:26 PM
I think mine runs okay, but not as good as with the maf plugged in. Idk, I'll take a video of it tomorrow morning.

ricekikr
03-19-2015, 11:46 PM
Without the maf i think it reverts to a basic fuel map. So it runs without any corrections to fuel related to maf values (airflow).

If it doesn't run as rich (9afr) without maf there's a big possibility that your mafs not working.

Without the maf (when still just chipped not mafless) mine wouldn't idle, itd just stall. Above idle it was very drivable. You'd also go limp mode (wastegate spring boost).

RallyeBourne
03-20-2015, 10:09 PM
Took it to Pure Motorsports today for a real Audi mechanic to diagnose. His conclusion: either MAF or TB... :|

Thanks...

So I went to the junkyard, and they just got in a 2001 AWM a4, and an AEB passat. The passat was missing airbox, so I pulled tb from passat and maf from a4. Turns out, awm has a different maf. Dammit. But, I put in tb and car still does it. So obviously, it's maf. Got the warranty, so I can return both parts for $$ back. New maf tomorrow. I'll just buy new from work.

pbcrazy
03-21-2015, 05:30 AM
They are like $90 brand new on Amazon, OEM Bosch I believe

RallyeBourne
03-21-2015, 08:56 AM
My car just kept doing it this morning, I could only make it a few hundred yards before it would start doing it again every time I turned it off. In a stroke of genius, I decided to pull over and unplug the mass airflow sensor. bingo, the problem is gone. Definitely maf.

Avant Nate
03-21-2015, 12:31 PM
Whats unusual is that your MAF is over-reporting airflow.

RallyeBourne
03-21-2015, 12:56 PM
I was watching it in VCDS yesterday, and my idle slowly climbed to 1400, but my maf value stayed the same, about 3.6g/s.

RallyeBourne
03-21-2015, 08:09 PM
I'm probably going to regret saying anything this soon, but oh well. On my way home from work, car was running good, so I felt safe to lay on it. Car pulled harder than I think it ever has. Boost pressure is the same, even after fixing a few leaks, but man. It felt great.