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View Full Version : coolant flange AEB and AWM



ricekikr
02-22-2015, 02:06 AM
Are AEB and AWM coolant flanges the same?

I like the AWM because it has one sensor port instead of two for the AEB. Less failure. I've cracked one on one flange and two on another (simultaneous, dunno how that happened since pressure should be gone when the first one cracked). Headbolt lift? And it comes out cheaper since I don't have to buy a $4 plug and the flange itself is cheaper $17 vs $22.

GrapeBandit
02-22-2015, 05:31 AM
pretty sure the aeb takes square sensor and awm has the round one

gmx
02-22-2015, 06:10 AM
Thought the AEB flange was discontinued. The AEB is a 058 prefix part number with one sensor port, there is no two sensor port AEB. Maybe it is appearing that way due it being superseded/discontinued or a notorious 'slap any picture of the part and forego accuracy'. You now get the AWM part which is basically the same for all subsequent 1.8Ts (dont know about transverse), but you need to order a blank plug, another o-ring, another clip for use with an AEB or any other 1.8T that doesn't use that 2nd port.
Part number 357121140

xdewaynex
02-22-2015, 06:13 AM
Basically the same. Im using a coolant flange from a B6 A4 on my AEB with a modified coolant pipe thats hidden under the manifold.

Seerlah
02-22-2015, 06:55 AM
^Same, but different. Currently running an AEB flange with cap for the extra port on my AWM.

woolveren
02-22-2015, 07:09 AM
And it comes out cheaper since I don't have to buy a $4 plug and the flange itself is cheaper $17 vs $22.

Pretty sure that the Genuine Audi AEB coolant flange comes with the plug and washer for the extra port. I bought it last year for ~$15 from GAP.

Mad Cow
02-22-2015, 07:22 AM
Pretty sure that the Genuine Audi AEB coolant flange comes with the plug and washer for the extra port. I bought it last year for ~$15 from GAP.

Yep, bought mine at the dealership last year and they told me they discontinued the 1-port flange entirely, so anybody selling that is either selling aftermarket or NOS.

Seerlah
02-22-2015, 07:28 AM
Mine is OEM and had it in there for a while.

ricekikr
02-22-2015, 09:58 AM
Here are the flanges. Prefer not to cut the current hard pipe. Both seem to use the same size sensor (sockets are irrelevant since they're outside the flange).

AWM 058121132C
http://www.secarpart.com/images/thumbs/300x300_058121132C.jpg

AEB 058121133B

http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/259469_x800.jpg

Seerlah
02-22-2015, 10:07 AM
They are the same size. The AEB extra port is sort of a moot point. Same exact flanges, minus the extra 'useless' port on the AEB.

ricekikr
02-22-2015, 10:10 AM
They are the same size. The AEB extra port is sort of a moot point. Same exact flanges, minus the extra 'useless' port on the AEB.

Great. Thanks.

vtraudt
02-24-2015, 06:23 AM
And they all warp like crazy. Removed one 6 months after install, non leaking. Visibly warped (assume thermal stress). Since cheap, have always one on hand and never reinstall. Ditto O-rings.

GrapeBandit
02-24-2015, 06:41 AM
And they all warp like crazy. Removed one 6 months after install, non leaking. Visibly warped (assume thermal stress). Since cheap, have always one on hand and never reinstall. Ditto O-rings.

i hear this all the time, "the coolant flanges warp". seems strange to me, i have 4 b5 1.8t's since 2000 and never had i had to replace a coolant flange due to warpage, not once.
only time is when i broke it while removing the engine

woolveren
02-24-2015, 07:23 AM
i hear this all the time, "the coolant flanges warp". seems strange to me, i have 4 b5 1.8t's since 2000 and never had i had to replace a coolant flange due to warpage, not once.
only time is when i broke it while removing the engine

I think warping is only applicable to aftermarket flanges, never had a problem with genuine audi flanges in my car too..

Mad Cow
02-24-2015, 07:29 AM
I think warping is only applicable to aftermarket flanges, never had a problem with genuine audi flanges in my car too..

Can confirm, aftermarket flange exploded a month after install from warping. Replaced with OEM and it's been going fine for 2 years now. Never again.

ricekikr
02-24-2015, 07:46 AM
The original 15+ yr old from audi warped because the hard pipe wasnt aligned.

So this is a common problem with aftermarket. Always read warping not exploding.

Mad Cow
02-24-2015, 08:33 AM
I've never heard of exploding either, but I guess it can happen. Just look at those cracks:
http://i.imgur.com/PYpTR71l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nKkuYZIl.jpg

xdewaynex
02-24-2015, 09:08 AM
I had an aftermarket one for 4yrs, started leaking a bit ago and when I removed it I noticed it was warped. Have never seen one crack until now.

ricekikr
02-24-2015, 09:50 AM
I had an aftermarket one for 4yrs, started leaking a bit ago and when I removed it I noticed it was warped. Have never seen one crack until now.

Meyle warped on me also, less than 1k miles.

ricekikr
02-24-2015, 09:51 AM
I've never heard of exploding either, but I guess it can happen. Just look at those cracks:
http://i.imgur.com/PYpTR71l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nKkuYZIl.jpg

Thats just as bad as what happening to mine. Just wonder why it only happens in high boost with mine. Or maybe it was the rpm not the boost. Too much flow.

Mad Cow
02-24-2015, 10:26 AM
Happened to me while idling in traffic on a hot day. The electric fan didn't come on for whatever reason and as soon as the temp gauge moved past the middle it went pop.

BaseDrifter
02-24-2015, 10:30 AM
I warped an OEM flange after 30 minutes of beating on the motor in the mountains. Turbo was glowing and then started losing coolant from the flange.

fR3ZNO
02-24-2015, 01:22 PM
In my experience, they don't warp, but instead the lip that holds the o ring in place disintegrates and then the o ring swells, and eventually starts leaking. I've seen this twice, both times on different cars.

Also, it still baffles me that no aftermarket company has stepped up to make a billet coolant flange. There's obviously a desire for them (just type "billet 1.8t" into google, the first suggestion is billet 1.8t coolant flange, haha) maybe not enough to be profitable, I don't know.

vtraudt
02-25-2015, 04:20 AM
Warping for replacement flanges (one time use item IMO). Original ones held long, then may disintegrate (O ring, lip, warp).
Billet: very asymmetric profile (note where the mounting bolts are located). With the very high thermal expansion coefficient of aluminum (or steel) - compared to composite plastic - the result may be poor. This thing would likely warp like a banana when heated up.

fR3ZNO
02-26-2015, 07:20 PM
Warping for replacement flanges (one time use item IMO). Original ones held long, then may disintegrate (O ring, lip, warp).
Billet: very asymmetric profile (note where the mounting bolts are located). With the very high thermal expansion coefficient of aluminum (or steel) - compared to composite plastic - the result may be poor. This thing would likely warp like a banana when heated up.

Just thought I'd share this with you: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linear-expansion-coefficients-d_95.html

The coefficient of thermal expansion for ABS plastic is more than three times than it is for aluminum. Aluminum would be superior. Also, it would contract and expand at a similar rate to the head, which is cast aluminum.

Mad Cow
02-26-2015, 08:30 PM
Just thought I'd share this with you: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linear-expansion-coefficients-d_95.html

The coefficient of thermal expansion for ABS plastic is more than three times than it is for aluminum. Aluminum would be superior. Also, it would contract and expand at a similar rate to the head, which is cast aluminum.

I think an aluminum flange would end up being prohibitively expensive to machine from a billet, it's a pretty complex piece after all. Ideally you'd want it cast and then cleaned up by machining, but I doubt you'd ever see enough sales to cover the initial fixed costs. There must be a reason nobody's done it in the nearly 20 years these motors have been on the market.

pbcrazy
02-26-2015, 08:37 PM
I think an aluminum flange would end up being prohibitively expensive to machine from a billet, it's a pretty complex piece after all. Ideally you'd want it cast and then cleaned up by machining, but I doubt you'd ever see enough sales to cover the initial fixed costs. There must be a reason nobody's done it in the nearly 20 years these motors have been on the market.

This is exactly right. A billet piece would likely never break down in this situation if made correctly. But the design is such a shape that machining it would take quite a bit of time and resources to design. I don't have exact numbers but I would take a guess and say a bullet replacement would cost upwards of $200, which would not be worth it to a majority of customers for a part that goes bad once every few years at $20 each.

I don't think the OEM flange is made of ABS though, I could be wrong but ABS would be a very poor choice for this application (probably why they fail if they are)

MetalMan
02-27-2015, 08:58 AM
For the B6 guys, at one point there were a couple different vendors who offered/planned to offer billet coolant flanges. Ultimately if they sold any they only sold a few, or the project died out. Asking price was somewhere around $150, which is likely why they didn't continually produce them (too expensive to manufacture).

But the B6 flange would be easier/cheaper than the B5 flange; the B5 flange has 2 screws and an O-ring connecting it to coolant hard pipe, whereas the B6 basically has a large port/nipple that attaches to a rubber hose (that connects to the hard pipe).

It could be a fun project to model a coolant flange in CAD and go through a manufacturing engineering exercise to reduce time/labor/machining of parts for manufacturing. I would be willing to do it with the right motivation [;)]

pbcrazy
02-27-2015, 09:21 AM
I doubt it would be a big deal to model up in solidworks, I could probably do it in an hour or so (I could also 3D print one without too much trouble but obviously that would not hold up here). I think the bigger problem would be the actual machining and I'm not sure how much time you can really reduce from the process unless they make in large quantities which there will never be a market for, they would have to individually machine one at a time.

redline380
02-27-2015, 09:36 AM
Anyone do foundry work? It would be a good experiment to pour one and shave it down to what works. Would probably have to lathe out the center though

GrapeBandit
02-27-2015, 09:42 AM
I just got a brand new meyle for my AEB, pn: 058 121 132

pbcrazy
02-27-2015, 09:50 AM
I just got a brand new meyle for my AEB, pn: 058 121 132

Bad choice, I had a Meyle and it cracked over the winter (5k miles on it)

MetalMan
02-27-2015, 09:57 AM
I think the bigger problem would be the actual machining and I'm not sure how much time you can really reduce from the process unless they make in large quantities which there will never be a market for, they would have to individually machine one at a time.

The problem is there isn't a pre-existing "process" by which you can reduce time from. For example if you cut the whole flange from a piece of billet on a 5-axis (if that were feasible), the manufacturing process would be quite different from welding together a bunch of different components made on lathes and mills.
In my post I was more-so referring to the "fun" aspect as figuring out the optimal way to manufacture it based on available machining/welding techniques and costs.


Anyone do foundry work? It would be a good experiment to pour one and shave it down to what works. Would probably have to lathe out the center though

We work with casting suppliers. The tooling alone could be $5k+, and the part would still require reasonably extensive machining anyways, making this a not-so-attractive option from a cost perspective IMO.


I just got a brand new meyle for my AEB, pn: 058 121 132

Kinda surprised you didn't go straight for a genuine one, since they're so cheap already.
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-quattro-1.8T/ES277614/
$22 for Genuine, I'm gonna guess you paid ~$8 for the Meyle brand. IMO the piece of mind for genuine part certainly outweighs the +$16 price difference! (it is your money and time, of course, and I think I remember you reading that you haven't had a problem with them anyways)

redline380
02-27-2015, 10:01 AM
We work with casting suppliers. The tooling alone could be $5k+, and the part would still require reasonably extensive machining anyways, making this a not-so-attractive option from a cost perspective IMO.

It cant be that hard. We did stuff like that all the time in high school.

GrapeBandit
02-27-2015, 10:01 AM
ill rehash my experience with you guys again in case someone missed it every time coolant flanges get mentioned.

I never had a coolant flange leak, crack, burst or any of the issues I ever heard on the boards. I always used meyle and will continue to do so.

Note: had 4 different 1.8t's since 2000, ZERO coolant flange issues, thats why I cant fathom what all the fuss is about

redline380
02-27-2015, 10:04 AM
Note: had 4 different 1.8t's since 2000, ZERO coolant flange issues, thats why I cant fathom what all the fuss is about

You haven't owned long enough for to crack!

GrapeBandit
02-27-2015, 10:13 AM
You haven't owned long enough for to crack!
bullshit. I had one from 2000(brand new) to 2009(parted that car out with original coolant flange still on it) I had 2 other ones for 2 years, and my current one for 4 years.

you guys must be overheating your engines

pbcrazy
02-27-2015, 10:36 AM
I'm just spit balling here, but maybe it's a temperature related thing considering you're in Florida. Both times I've had a flange fail is in the winter when it was 15*F or less, could be just a coincendence though

GrapeBandit
02-27-2015, 10:39 AM
I'm just spit balling here, but maybe it's a temperature related thing considering you're in Florida. Both times I've had a flange fail is in the winter when it was 15*F or less, could be just a coincendence though

definitely not. I just moved to Florida in the beginning of last summer, lived in north jersey the rest of my life. all my cars saw harsh winters, glad tbey wont anymore lol

Mad Cow
02-27-2015, 12:12 PM
Kinda surprised you didn't go straight for a genuine one, since they're so cheap already.
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-quattro-1.8T/ES277614/
$22 for Genuine, I'm gonna guess you paid ~$8 for the Meyle brand. IMO the piece of mind for genuine part certainly outweighs the +$16 price difference! (it is your money and time, of course, and I think I remember you reading that you haven't had a problem with them anyways)

I picked up mine for like $15 straight from the dealership, I actually paid a dollar more for the crappy aftermarket flange that exploded in a month.

Leaking CCT seals could contribute to the flange failing, mine's been leaking lightly for a while and I can see it begin to warp very slightly where it bolts to the head.

fR3ZNO
02-27-2015, 05:01 PM
I agree on the producing one just for poops and giggles. As a ME student that kinda stuff would be fun.