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R490
02-13-2015, 05:02 PM
Specifically the 2.8 12v. What is the most plug and play swap, with the least custom fabrication needed?

I've heard about the 4.2 ABZ, and the 2.7TT. But from my understanding, the V8 would need a good amount of modification.

S4NIK8
02-13-2015, 05:05 PM
swap in a dbw gas pedal and do a w8 swap, already comes in the Passat chassis so it will plug and play

R490
02-13-2015, 05:09 PM
swap in a dbw gas pedal and do a w8 swap, already comes in the Passat chassis so it will plug and play

As much as I love the W8, I don't want it in my DD [:)]

GrapeBandit
02-13-2015, 05:15 PM
w8 sucks just as bad as the 4.2.

that said, grab a 1.8t donor car and go to town[up]

R490
02-13-2015, 05:17 PM
w8 sucks just as bad as the 4.2.

that said, grab a 1.8t donor car and go to town[up]

Meh, I'd like more power and I'd rather have something that wasn't in a B5.

S4NIK8
02-13-2015, 05:23 PM
w8 sucks just as bad as the 4.2.

W8 at least fits better than the 4.2 does, its sort of a 'good luck' situation though if you need any hard parts for the thing though.

bhusted
02-13-2015, 05:27 PM
I love my 4.2. The W8 is a little bit of white elephant. I think it would be cool to have a tuned up TDI in a b5 chassis. Great torque and fuel economy.

R490
02-13-2015, 05:58 PM
I love my 4.2. The W8 is a little bit of white elephant. I think it would be cool to have a tuned up TDI in a b5 chassis. Great torque and fuel economy.

Would be cool to get a 1.9 TDI, but parts availability would be sketch.

GrapeBandit
02-13-2015, 06:44 PM
Meh, I'd like more power and I'd rather have something that wasn't in a B5.
you asked what would be the easiest swap, so I and I answered 1.8t.

im sorry a 1.8t cant make madd powah yo![rolleyes]

Would be cool to get a 1.9 TDI, but parts availability would be sketch.
tdi swaps are pointless. only thing you gain is the fact you can say you have a tdi. are you that poor that the mpg's from gas to diesel break your wallet[confused]

R490
02-13-2015, 06:47 PM
you asked what would be the easiest swap, so I and I answered 1.8t.

im sorry a 1.8t cant make madd powah yo![rolleyes]

tdi swaps are pointless. only thing you gain is the fact you can say you have a tdi. are you that poor that the mpg's from gas to diesel break your wallet[confused]

True that, I'd just start over if I wanted a 1.8T though. That's why I was thinking of something else. I'd rather bounce around a little bit and pick something else up along the lines while still retaining one fairly functional car.

Well, tdi would be nice. Buuuuut I'm not in dire need of money and I'm perfectly fine with gas.

Jungleboon
02-13-2015, 06:54 PM
LS1 BRO!

R490
02-13-2015, 07:08 PM
LS1 BRO!

Lol, in my mind that's sacrilegious.

Bordom
02-13-2015, 07:14 PM
Lol, in my mind that's sacrilegious.
Mild cam, intake, and exhaust already out you up over 400whp. I've seriously debated this, but want to retain AWD.

That is the most custom swap to do

R490
02-13-2015, 07:15 PM
Mild cam, intake, and exhaust already out you up over 400whp. I've seriously debated this, but want to retain AWD.

That is the most custom swap to do

Yup, I'd like to keep AWD and keep the engine in the VAG family at the same time.

I'm still looking around for an old 911, or an R32 to import or something like that. So I'd be able to have a functional car while the A4 would be in hindsight out of commission. I've got so many ideas on what to do, but can never decide on what to actually do.

BaseDrifter
02-13-2015, 07:17 PM
Waterboy was talking about/in the process of swapping an american V8 into his B5. Then he disappeared. Where you at water boy?

R490
02-13-2015, 07:19 PM
Waterboy was talking about/in the process of swapping an american V8 into his B5. Then he disappeared. Where you at water boy?

It's too bad, I've seen a lot of build threads for awesome projects just completely drop off the map.

Seerlah
02-13-2015, 07:20 PM
Easiest as in direct swap with parts is the 2.7TT or 1.8T. Everything else requires at least some type of cutting and what not versus just swapped parts. 4.2 you may not require to cut anything (depending on your install), but parts swapping is much more. Easiest...b5 engines on the b5 chassis.

R490
02-13-2015, 07:23 PM
Easiest as in direct swap with parts is the 2.7TT or 1.8T. Everything else requires at least some type of cutting and what not versus just swapped parts. 4.2 you may not require to cut anything (depending on your install), but parts swapping is much more. Easiest...b5 engines on the b5 chassis.

Isn't the 2.7tt not very reliable?

I've got shop access also, but no storage access there.

Bordom
02-13-2015, 07:26 PM
Yup, I'd like to keep AWD and keep the engine in the VAG family at the same time.

I'm still looking around for an old 911, or an R32 to import or something like that. So I'd be able to have a functional car while the A4 would be in hindsight out of commission. I've got so many ideas on what to do, but can never decide on what to actually do.
I know how you feel. We got that other guy doing the 96 12v -> 1.8T swap going on, so you, smitty and I can choose between:

4.2 ABZ swap that ONLY requires custom engine mounts,

2.7 swap which would require an entire rewire of the 97 because of the gigantic technological changes in engine programing,

2.8 12v turbo/supercharge that would be entirely custom with a built motor and standalone.

We each choose and carry them out in our respective threads. Then when we are all finished, collectively pile into a thread that outlines how to do each swap: 1.8, 4.2, 2.7, and 12v build so other 96/97 owners can get in on the fun

R490
02-13-2015, 07:30 PM
I know how you feel. We got that other guy doing the 96 12v -> 1.8T swap going on, so you, smitty and I can choose between:

4.2 ABZ swap that ONLY requires custom engine mounts,

2.7 swap which would require an entire rewire of the 97 because of the gigantic technological changes in engine programing,

2.8 12v turbo/supercharge that would be entirely custom with a built motor and standalone.

We each choose and carry them out in our respective threads. Then when we are all finished, collectively pile into a thread that outlines how to do each swap: 1.8, 4.2, 2.7, and 12v build so other 96/97 owners can get in on the fun

Hahaha, I'd personally love to do the 4.2 ABZ. That engine sounds like it's trying to conjure Satan.

If you could pick, which one would you do?

S4NIK8
02-13-2015, 07:30 PM
Do the W8 with a supercharger or some turbos; because it bolts right in and they sound cool

Seerlah
02-13-2015, 07:31 PM
Isn't the 2.7tt not very reliable?

I've got shop access also, but no storage access there.

It's as reliable as you keep it. Just more parts that can fail vs the 1.8T. There are 2.7tts out there more reliable than some 1.8ts. Just need to stay on top of them.

If I had a 2.7tt I would have built the engine, single turbo, emission and a bunch of sensor/solenoid deletes. That way you eliminate a bunch of parts that can potentially fail. That is why my 1.8t is so reliable. Not many parts left from the original design to even have in there to fail. Basically set it up like my A4, except with 2 extra cylinders and a v6 powerhouse.

Bordom
02-13-2015, 07:32 PM
Hahaha, I'd personally love to do the 4.2 ABZ. That engine sounds like it's trying to conjure Satan.

If you could pick, which one would you do?
I'd like 4.2. I would not be opposed to building the 12v though. 2.7 would be too much work.

QUICKLY! Lets shaft smitty and leave him with the 2.7 LOL

EDIT: *Word correction*

R490
02-13-2015, 07:33 PM
It's as reliable as you keep it. Just more parts that can fail vs the 1.8T. There are 2.7tts out there more reliable than some 1.8ts. Just need to stay on top of them.

Thanks for the advice!

smittyzz
02-14-2015, 11:00 AM
I'd like 4.2. I would not be opposed to building the 12v though. 2.7 would be too much work.

QUICKLY! Lets shaft smitty and leave him with the 2.7 LOL

EDIT: *Word correction*
I'll take the 2.7tt when mine blows as long as I can keep my awd.
And way to throw me under the bus lol
I love my car though =)

R490
02-14-2015, 11:34 AM
I'd like 4.2. I would not be opposed to building the 12v though. 2.7 would be too much work.

QUICKLY! Lets shaft smitty and leave him with the 2.7 LOL

EDIT: *Word correction*

Hahaha, let Smitty deal with that stuffs. OOOORRR, we both can all do 4.2 swaps and then build up our 2.8 engines once the 4.2s are in!

Bordom
02-14-2015, 11:40 AM
Hahaha, let Smitty deal with that stuffs. OOOORRR, we both can all do 4.2 swaps and then build up our 2.8 engines once the 4.2s are in!
I concur with this! Then 4.2T! Haha

R490
02-14-2015, 11:59 AM
I concur with this! Then 4.2T! Haha

Haha, or somehow Supercharge it also. Twincharge.

Bordom
02-14-2015, 12:02 PM
Haha, or somehow Supercharge it also. Twincharge.
PES 4.2 supercharger then a bypass valve for when the turbo kicks in. Monster

R490
02-14-2015, 12:07 PM
PES 4.2 supercharger then a bypass valve for when the turbo kicks in. Monster

That would sound, and perform awesome. The sound of a PES supercharger is fantastic, as is the 4.2 V8. Those two combined would be one big eargasm.

wolfe2118
02-15-2015, 02:44 PM
The easiest swap would be a 40V 4.2L. No intercoolers or piping, no downpipes(your 2.8 downpipes will bolt right up to the 4.2), wiring is simple(the wire harness falls in the right spot), you can use your 2.8 clutch and flywheel(not recommended though), the engine mounts from the 4.2 bolt right up, the fuel lines are in the right spot, the engine is far more reliable and cheaper to service that the 2.7t. Conversion to DBW is simple(a couple of wires and a bolt in peddle). Your 2.8 airbox even works. The only issue is cooling but that has been covered by so many people that there could be a tutorial on it. Anyone that can argue for a easier swap OBVIOUSLY has never had the balls to try the swap. The ABZ swap would be classified as the hardest but even then welding up engine mounts should be a walk in the park if you can weld.

R490
02-15-2015, 07:29 PM
The easiest swap would be a 40V 4.2L. No intercoolers or piping, no downpipes(your 2.8 downpipes will bolt right up to the 4.2), wiring is simple(the wire harness falls in the right spot), you can use your 2.8 clutch and flywheel(not recommended though), the engine mounts from the 4.2 bolt right up, the fuel lines are in the right spot, the engine is far more reliable and cheaper to service that the 2.7t. Conversion to DBW is simple(a couple of wires and a bolt in peddle). Your 2.8 airbox even works. The only issue is cooling but that has been covered by so many people that there could be a tutorial on it. Anyone that can argue for a easier swap OBVIOUSLY has never had the balls to try the swap. The ABZ swap would be classified as the hardest but even then welding up engine mounts should be a walk in the park if you can weld.

I can weld, and have access to a shop more of less whenever I feel like. The only reason why I'd need something simple is because I'd need a relatively quick turnaround. Thanks for the advice! That is the older version of the 4.2, before the B6 S4 and the timing chain sent from Satan right?

I think the 30v flywheel is the right one to use is that correct?

bhusted
02-15-2015, 07:59 PM
The 40v is the last year of the belt driven V8 before the B6/7 thing happened. You will need the 30v flywheel. You should try to be realistic with yourself on the timeline. Unless you have all of the necessary parts immediately available and there are no unforeseen issues ie: better replace it while you're in there, plan on it taking some time. Do it right the first time and you'll be much happier.

R490
02-15-2015, 08:04 PM
The 40v is the last year of the belt driven V8 before the B6/7 thing happened. You will need the 30v flywheel. You should try to be realistic with yourself on the timeline. Unless you have all of the necessary parts immediately available and there are no unforeseen issues ie: better replace it while you're in there, plan on it taking some time. Do it right the first time and you'll be much happier.

Good point, good point. I'll try and collect everything I need and make sure it's all in good order before I actually begin. Might have to get a beater in the meantime.

When was the last year of the 40v?

bhusted
02-15-2015, 09:53 PM
The year you want is 2001. Engine code AWN.

R490
02-16-2015, 02:11 PM
The year you want is 2001. Engine code AWN.

Thanks, how long did the process for yours take?

clumsyme
02-16-2015, 03:30 PM
Waterboy was talking about/in the process of swapping an american V8 into his B5. Then he disappeared. Where you at water boy?

I have been in contact with him. He is going through some shit I am going to leave it at that until he reappears

bhusted
02-16-2015, 03:41 PM
Thanks, how long did the process for yours take?

The mechanical side of things took ~6 weeks. After that it was running/driving, but then I spend another year or more sorting out some electrical stuff. I think I can finally say that the swap is 100% done, although I'm thinking of redoing my exhaust soon...

R490
02-16-2015, 06:31 PM
The mechanical side of things took ~6 weeks. After that it was running/driving, but then I spend another year or more sorting out some electrical stuff. I think I can finally say that the swap is 100% done, although I'm thinking of redoing my exhaust soon...

That's a long time. I'd definitely need to get something else to drive if I were to actually execute a swap at some point. Were there just constant electrical gremlins, or was it more general stuff?

Bordom
02-16-2015, 10:40 PM
I mention the ABZ because it's already DBC. I personally don't think the AWN would be easier because the 96-97 B5's are a world away in terms of electrical compatibility for the ECU and body plugs.

ABZ 4.2's have also been proven to be good for 10PSI of boost on a stock motor. Be prepared to spend much more time on wiring diagrams than you would an ABZ. But from what I've read, there's a bunch of AWM 4.2 B5s running around, so you could attempt it.

bhusted
02-17-2015, 08:00 AM
That's a long time. I'd definitely need to get something else to drive if I were to actually execute a swap at some point. Were there just constant electrical gremlins, or was it more general stuff?

As I said, some of that time is waiting for parts to arrive or other unforeseen issues. The electrical stuff comes from getting the engine to run as it should coupled to a manual transmission. You can drive it with the stock ECU, but it have some strange behaviors. Of course now that I've done it once, I'm sure I could do it faster.

The ABZ is not without its own drawbacks. You'll have to fabricate engine mounts and the flywheel is more difficult to source. There is also some ECU work to be done to make it run properly IIRC.

I'm not trying to advocate for one or the other, but simply put the information out there.

R490
02-17-2015, 08:46 AM
As I said, some of that time is waiting for parts to arrive or other unforeseen issues. The electrical stuff comes from getting the engine to run as it should coupled to a manual transmission. You can drive it with the stock ECU, but it have some strange behaviors. Of course now that I've done it once, I'm sure I could do it faster.

The ABZ is not without its own drawbacks. You'll have to fabricate engine mounts and the flywheel is more difficult to source. There is also some ECU work to be done to make it run properly IIRC.

I'm not trying to advocate for one or the other, but simply put the information out there.

So you're using a different ECU?

I'm not that worried about engine mounts as much, but the flywheel is making me a bit nervous just thinking about it.

Would you consider the swap all worth it in the end?

Bordom
02-17-2015, 09:08 AM
So you're using a different ECU?

I'm not that worried about engine mounts as much, but the flywheel is making me a bit nervous just thinking about it.

Would you consider the swap all worth it in the end?
034 makes a flywheel and clutch kit for the swap. It'll be the most expensive portion of the ABZ swap that the AWM would otherwise be significantly cheaper

bhusted
02-17-2015, 10:45 AM
So you're using a different ECU?

I'm not that worried about engine mounts as much, but the flywheel is making me a bit nervous just thinking about it.

Would you consider the swap all worth it in the end?

My engine code is technically ART, but I'm running an AWN ECU with non-stock tune. I would consider it worth it in the end. I enjoy driving it and working on it. Keep in mind that once you move away from OEM parts in their original configurations, the reliability isn't going to be what it was. For this reason, you'll need to continue to work on it and never truly be done. While this swap may be easier than some, I wouldn't consider it necessarily easy.


034 makes a flywheel and clutch kit for the swap. It'll be the most expensive portion of the ABZ swap that the AWM would otherwise be significantly cheaper

I just wanted to let you know that you keep using the wrong engine code. The AWM is the 1.8T that came in 2001+ cars. The AWN is the belt driven 4.2 that came in 2001-2003 A6 cars.

R490
02-17-2015, 05:34 PM
My engine code is technically ART, but I'm running an AWN ECU with non-stock tune. I would consider it worth it in the end. I enjoy driving it and working on it. Keep in mind that once you move away from OEM parts in their original configurations, the reliability isn't going to be what it was. For this reason, you'll need to continue to work on it and never truly be done. While this swap may be easier than some, I wouldn't consider it necessarily easy.



I just wanted to let you know that you keep using the wrong engine code. The AWM is the 1.8T that came in 2001+ cars. The AWN is the belt driven 4.2 that came in 2001-2003 A6 cars.

Hmmmm, if that's the case I might have to tie up some loose ends before I actually commit to doing a swap. That'll be a while probably, but hey if it's possible I might want to get hold of an engine, work on rebuilding it and hope that I don't loose interest somewhere alone the line.

Bordom
02-17-2015, 05:38 PM
My engine code is technically ART, but I'm running an AWN ECU with non-stock tune. I would consider it worth it in the end. I enjoy driving it and working on it. Keep in mind that once you move away from OEM parts in their original configurations, the reliability isn't going to be what it was. For this reason, you'll need to continue to work on it and never truly be done. While this swap may be easier than some, I wouldn't consider it necessarily easy.



I just wanted to let you know that you keep using the wrong engine code. The AWM is the 1.8T that came in 2001+ cars. The AWN is the belt driven 4.2 that came in 2001-2003 A6 cars.

Wow, huge oversight on my part. I got to thinking AWM for some reason, instead of AWN.

Thanks for the correction

Bordom
02-18-2015, 08:52 PM
For those of you who would like to be stubborn and not heed the advice of people that know better when deciding to build your 12v, there is a thread that explains the 2.8 12v ECU and how it "sees" the RPM. It even tells you how to wire up Megasquirt. (Major components anyways)

You Stubborn Rebel (http://www.classic-audi.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=28339)

The board meant to convert our stupid "3 tach" system is linked here:

Keep Rebelling (http://jbperf.com/wheel_translator/index.html)

I may get this and wire the car to run stock off of MS and see how it goes. Really Curious

A1 A2 German
02-18-2015, 11:46 PM
We need this! We need someone to forget the 1.8T, the 2.8 Supercharged, the 4.2L V8, we need this!

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx329/NaijaGuy/S8-Powered%20Audi%20A4%20Touring%20Car/BTCC2.jpg (http://s768.photobucket.com/user/NaijaGuy/media/S8-Powered%20Audi%20A4%20Touring%20Car/BTCC2.jpg.html)

Bordom
02-19-2015, 04:28 AM
We need this! We need someone to forget the 1.8T, the 2.8 Supercharged, the 4.2L V8, we need this!

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx329/NaijaGuy/S8-Powered%20Audi%20A4%20Touring%20Car/BTCC2.jpg (http://s768.photobucket.com/user/NaijaGuy/media/S8-Powered%20Audi%20A4%20Touring%20Car/BTCC2.jpg.html)

Is that a 1.9 TDI or an older 8v Turbo setup? I may be getting my engine lines confused

TDI swap would be kick ass, and there's much aftermarket support for the 1.9

smittyzz
02-19-2015, 11:27 AM
Is that a 1.9 TDI or an older 8v Turbo setup? I may be getting my engine lines confused

TDI swap would be kick ass, and there's much aftermarket support for the 1.9
I believe it's an older 8v non turbo;)
Edit=pathetic auto correction raping me again

R490
02-21-2015, 07:38 AM
For those of you who would like to be stubborn and not heed the advice of people that know better when deciding to build your 12v, there is a thread that explains the 2.8 12v ECU and how it "sees" the RPM. It even tells you how to wire up Megasquirt. (Major components anyways)

You Stubborn Rebel (http://www.classic-audi.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=28339)

The board meant to convert our stupid "3 tach" system is linked here:

Keep Rebelling (http://jbperf.com/wheel_translator/index.html)

I may get this and wire the car to run stock off of MS and see how it goes. Really Curious

If you try that, I will most certainly.

Also, Megasquirt sounds like some kind of crappy porn haha.