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View Full Version : How much HP can the 1.8T and Quattro Manual handle?



mnester
02-09-2015, 06:35 AM
I'm sure this has been posted somewhere but just looking for a round about answer. How much HP can the 1.8T handle before needing forged internals? Same for the Quattro manual transmission. What usually blows first? The rods? Ringlands? Transmission? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

GrapeBandit
02-09-2015, 06:39 AM
rods go first, and not from hp, but torque, somewhere areound 300-350tq

mnester
02-09-2015, 06:42 AM
Thanks. So if I upgrade the rods, will the pistons handle more? Leaving pistons stock would be key if I wanted to have a DD.

Do you have any figures on the transmission? I'm coming from dealing with WRX trannies and they are not great at handling extra power.

redline380
02-09-2015, 07:22 AM
The stock pistons are fine for most street turbo setups. Same goes for transmission. They are pretty reliable when talking street cars. And if it breaks, oh well. They generally run around $200 for a used one, so not like it is breaking the bank.

Rods are generally the only big thing that is needed to upgrade. Obviously the clutch and other small supporting mods, but the engine and drivetrain should handle pretty much anything up to a mild gt35r setup.

moyenecorniche
02-09-2015, 07:24 AM
Anything past a stage II is not going to be a reliable DD. Above 250-300HP you are going to be at risk. 1.8T is about 160hp so doubling that is going to strain reliability.
There's plenty of read here on A-zine concerning the max. This should be your 1st goal. There are enough people here who have brought the 1.8T to max while retaining a reliable DD.
Max being relative to reliable and driveable day in and day out.

On a 1.8T, KO4, Stage II, B7 coilpacks, higher flow injectors, Catback exhaust, clutch, short shifter. Brakes should be at the front of that list. You cannot up the performance and leave the brakes stock. You have to upgrade as the stock A4's brakes were inadequate.

At this point research is where you should be.

rodgertherabit
02-09-2015, 07:36 AM
Anything past a stage II is not going to be a reliable DD. A

I disagree with this. Maintenance and proper planning are more important than the power you want...

If done properly with the appropriate parts the car should be as sound as stock (my philosophy at least). Ive had a bigturbo 1.8t for almost 3 years now... Daily Driven, HARD, and boosting 15-22 psi since I installed it. Not one Hiccup, not one problem. Main reason for this is I did My research and planned the build out, not just abunch of impulse buys.

Only things that can question reliability is if you are getting used hardware, install incorrectly, or dont have the appropriate supporting parts. Rods and a strong Clutch are a must for over 300 if you dont want to worry about blowing stuff up and want to put the power down.

To be honest my stock k03s and FT were FAR less reliable and too much more tweaking to get right...if anyting my BT set up now is more realiable due to everything being installed recently and EVERYthing getting checked and cataloged .[wrench][cool]

redline380
02-09-2015, 07:42 AM
Anything past a stage II is not going to be a reliable DD.... Above 250-300HP you are going to be at risk.... 1.8T is about 160hp so doubling that is going to strain reliability.... You have to upgrade as the stock A4's brakes were inadequate.


Exactly how much experience do you have with b5's? Because all of this is basically incorrect information.

My car has 320awhp. Never broken down yet.

No b5 was offered with 160hp. AEB and ATW are 150, AWM is 170.

My stock brakes have never failed to stop my car. It's not what is braking the car, but who is braking it.

Gaberossi
02-09-2015, 07:43 AM
Anything past a stage II is not going to be a reliable DD. Above 250-300HP you are going to be at risk. 1.8T is about 160hp so doubling that is going to strain reliability.
There's plenty of read here on A-zine concerning the max. This should be your 1st goal. There are enough people here who have brought the 1.8T to max while retaining a reliable DD.
Max being relative to reliable and driveable day in and day out.

On a 1.8T, KO4, Stage II, B7 coilpacks, higher flow injectors, Catback exhaust, clutch, short shifter. Brakes should be at the front of that list. You cannot up the performance and leave the brakes stock. You have to upgrade as the stock A4's brakes were inadequate.

At this point research is where you should be.
I disagree as well...I was pushing 385hp on pump gas on my 5857 setup for 60k miles, now I went E85 and I'm making 460whp. Before the E85 I was daily driving this car for 2 years. For the past month I have been driving my B5 everyday because I need to fix my DD(Honda civic). Don't say its not reliable. It all comes down to how you maintain your car. I felt my car was more unreliable with a stock setup(tuned k03 and K04).

melomandn
02-09-2015, 07:49 AM
Agree with everyone above me. I don't understand why people continue to say this.

With the proper maintenance and supporting rods the b5 can easily be a 300+awhp dd as many of us here have proved.

Avant Nate
02-09-2015, 08:05 AM
Stock brakes are fine, unless you plan on Auto-X. It doesn't make a difference if you're stopping from 100 whether you have a K03 or GT35r.

M-Hood
02-09-2015, 08:08 AM
Thanks. So if I upgrade the rods, will the pistons handle more? Leaving pistons stock would be key if I wanted to have a DD.

Do you have any figures on the transmission? I'm coming from dealing with WRX trannies and they are not great at handling extra power.

Weak point on the 01A transmission is the input shaft, it can flex allowing 3rd gear to pull away from each other which can cause it to sheer. I didn't really have problems till I was making over 600hp/500tq at the wheels on my built A4 1.8t quattro, others have had problems with it while making less power then that. Running a flow control valve helps when trying to make big hp, other option is to switch to a 6 speed transmission which is stronger then the 01A 5 speeds.

Seerlah
02-09-2015, 08:19 AM
I also daily drive a BT setup. Car is more reliable now than it was during it's other phases. You just need to maintain it and know how to go about things. I spend so much more less now on maintenance than I did prior. Figure maybe $500-$1500 annually before. Now I don't pass $250-$500 annually. Go figure!

mnester
02-09-2015, 08:19 AM
Good info... the WRX forums would used preach don't go over 17psi on the 2L TD04 stock turbos (hot air and all that). I was running 25psi all day long no problem with awesome midrange torque, properly tuned. Later upgraded the turbo to the stock STi snail and was running 22psi no problem as well.

How much WHP can I achieve with the stock turbos?

Seerlah
02-09-2015, 08:22 AM
Not much, but also depends on fueling and tune. Bolt ons and 93 tune at 22psi you can figure roughly 215chp. More depending on type of fuel and tune.

adam044
02-09-2015, 08:45 AM
Check the FAQ under the B5 section.

We'll never mind I can't find it. It use to be a sticky.

M-Hood
02-09-2015, 09:01 AM
Good info... the WRX forums would used preach don't go over 17psi on the 2L TD04 stock turbos (hot air and all that). I was running 25psi all day long no problem with awesome midrange torque, properly tuned. Later upgraded the turbo to the stock STi snail and was running 22psi no problem as well.

How much WHP can I achieve with the stock turbos?

On pump gas about 170awhp. I was able to reach around 200awhp but that was on race gas. What year A4 do you own or do you plan on getting?

mnester
02-09-2015, 09:52 AM
Well I currently have a 2000 2.8L Avant with a 5 speed. Planning on selling that now that it is in really good mechanical shape. Then I was considering a similar year 1.8T but I was wondering if it was worth the effort. Looking for reasonably priced AWD fast car. Meaning that I wouldn't want to spend a ton on a new tranny or a bunch of upgraded internals. Goal is 320-350WHP.

Seerlah
02-09-2015, 09:55 AM
Just drop in rods can give you that power with decent sized turbo. That is what many, including myself, is putting down to the wheels. Others have my more.

mnester
02-09-2015, 10:01 AM
Any suggestions for a turbo that would be necessary to achieve this?

Also, are the ECUs tunable or do you need a piggyback/chip?

redline380
02-09-2015, 11:03 AM
Any suggestions for a turbo that would be necessary to achieve this?

Also, are the ECUs tunable or do you need a piggyback/chip?

You need to do more research. Of course we all have answers for you but yourself a favor and look through 3-5 build threads with various horsepower levels achieved. You will learn a lot. If you have more questions after that, ask.

Here is my thread if you are interested, but it is not all encompassing on what you need to do. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/491195-It-s-time

vrmm
02-09-2015, 12:05 PM
Maestro for tuning. 4.2l v8 maf, 630cc injectors(everyone prefers bosch)... There's a ton of informative threads. I have one with all the parts plus prices I'll look for.
For the turbo get a t3 exhaust manifold then find any t3 turbo's hp rating and times it buy .23 to account for drivetrain loss and you'll have your whp. You could look at comp turbos on ringer racing. I'd say go a little bigger than you plan for, so when you get bored you can just turn the boost up. Also aem failsafe wideband/afr gauge is pretty badass. You can't do anything without a wideband really.

Page 3 has all the parts I've bought so far.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/619699-Approve-my-engine-build-parts

jsbs1991
02-09-2015, 01:49 PM
This is something to look at for turbo choices. well what i look at, because still debating. http://www.audiforums.com/forum/b5-models-69/1-8t-turbo-upgrade-information-93439/

Seerlah
02-09-2015, 02:02 PM
Also, simple drop in rods makes your short block 600chp capable. Weak spot in the head is the sodium filled exhaust valves. If they continually go through so much heat, they will eventually disintegrate and fuber your cylinder (imagine valve head just dropping off). Since head has to be popped off for drop in rods, lap in solid (or inconel) exhaust valves for safety measures (one of the things that is keeping me from tuning past 25psi on my current setup. but I'm currently building a head on the side to just replace my current one with). But while in there, also upgrade your valve springs to get it over with. At this point, you can just swap out more aggressive cams later on with ease (nothing left really, unless you want to get into stuff you should research instead of us spoon feeding it [:p]). The more you want, the more $$$ you have to give up. Shop thrifty!

Now...go search [cool]

mnester
02-09-2015, 04:38 PM
Will do thanks.

Seerlah
02-09-2015, 04:46 PM
No problem!

And one more note. Get a 2001 model 1.8T. You want that engine management system. Rod wrist pins are smaller on those (19mm) than on the other B5 A4 engines. Cheap way to work around that, throw pistons in from the AEB or AMU (TT225) with the 20mm wrispins. I have an AWM and this is the route I took. 144x20 rods with AEB pistons.

vrmm
02-09-2015, 05:33 PM
Lameo! It was 129 when I bought it. I think 200 is still better than anywhere else. As far as I know that's the cheapest you'll find.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281593355506&alt=web

M-Hood
02-09-2015, 06:29 PM
No problem!

And one more note. Get a 2001 model 1.8T. You want that engine management system. Rod wrist pins are smaller on those (19mm) than on the other B5 A4 engines. Cheap way to work around that, throw pistons in from the AEB or AMU (TT225) with the 20mm wrispins. I have an AWM and this is the route I took. 144x20 rods with AEB pistons.

Wrist pin really isn't the weak point, so 19mm wrist pin and rods are perfectly fine.

Seerlah
02-09-2015, 06:54 PM
I know. But 20mm all things equal should be more stronger than 19 mm simply because it's more robust. Just an option if he wanted 20mm wristpins. I know I did. Downfall with the aeb pistons, less timing advance can be added vs awm when custom tuning before timing pull. But I'm very satisfied with my application. Now...time to maximise it or get damn close (can't be done without race fuel or e85).

M-Hood
02-10-2015, 01:34 PM
I know. But 20mm all things equal should be more stronger than 19 mm simply because it's more robust. Just an option if he wanted 20mm wristpins. I know I did. Downfall with the aeb pistons, less timing advance can be added vs awm when custom tuning before timing pull. But I'm very satisfied with my application. Now...time to maximise it or get damn close (can't be done without race fuel or e85).

I don't think I have seen a A4 1.8t 19mm or 20mm wrist pin fail yet, which is why IE offers the 19mm drop in rods for the 06A owners that don't want to change their bore or compression. Only reason to go from 19mm to 20mm wrist pins is if the person is going with aftermarket pistons seeing everyone only makes them with 20mm wrist pins. Kind of a waste of time going from stock 06A pistons to stock 058 pistons just to gain 1mm on the wrist pin. If you want stronger wrist pins then go with Tool steel, but even the standard 20mm pins seem to be doing just fine in my car making the amount of power it does with boost at 40+psi.