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codyturner
01-04-2015, 11:35 AM
Hello, welcome to my thread. Summer of 2013 i purchased a 1998 audi a4 1.8t quattro limo. I purchased sight unseen from a girl who later told me that she traded her jeep straight across for said b5. This was the first redflag. On my way home i blew the throttle body hose off. The engine bay looked unusual. This was/is my first audi. The car left me stranded .5km out of my home town 2 weeks later. The car then spent all winter in my mechanics shop (an audi/vw specialist).there was fuel in the oil. His factory service information was of no use. Did the basic maintenance that the previous owner neglected to do (brakes, most of the front control arms, viscous fan clutch bearing etc.) And $5k later i had a car that runs and drives.

Now for Ever since i got the car i couldn't put the pedal to the floor. The boost would surge after 21psi at first. Now cant build boost past 10 psi without black smoke and bucking/surging.

Now for the good news. Through a year of research and the help of a robert mecking, i have uncovered the mystery of my b5. I found a forsale ad that had many of the same features as my a4 (s4 skirts, s4 rear bumper lip, pillar afr and boost guage, s4 suede seats, 17" avus wheels). The hood and bumper were different, and the car in the ad had a fmic. There were to many similarities to ignore. I called the 7 year old phone number. To my surprise it was the person who owned that car in 07. We conversed then exchanged pictures. He sent me a pic of the interior. One of the pictures revealed a damaged interior trim piece. My car had the exact same damage.

I now knew for sure that this is my car. This a4 has an apr stage3+ kit on it as well as a ecs ra4 clutch with 12 lb flywheel, etc.( i will post ad so everyone can see full parts list) he said it ran a 12.18 in its day(possible?)

The owner from 2007 lived in alberta. I live in saskatchewan. The albertan sold it to a guy in saskatchewan, sgi (saskatchewans insurance company) has had a reported claim for $1200. This guy obviously got in a front end collision, threw a carbon fiber hood and new bumper on, put the factory smic (with home hardware supplies) and the traded it to that unknowing girl for her jeep. And now i own it.

My mechanic is very open about only wanting to do oem work. So it is up to my friend and i to restore the stage3 b5 back to its former glory. This is were I'm going to need advice from all of you, especially apr stage 3 guys.

So far this thread is just a story. Once i have put relevant pics and links in here, i will research a little more, before asking for advice.

http://forums.780tuners.com/showthread.php?76770-FS-98-Audi-A4-1-8L-APR-Stage-3-Turbo-(Price-Drop)
This is the forsale ad (parts list is in there). This is when the albertan owned it. I think it looks way sweeter than how i have it.

This car is my daily driver and once it is proper stage3 again, i wont be adding anymore power.http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/IMG_20141210_105110_zps29a52119.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/IMG_20141210_105110_zps29a52119.jpg.html)http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/IMG_20141219_102508_zpsa16de1a3.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/IMG_20141219_102508_zpsa16de1a3.jpg.html)http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20141117_101204_zps0e3a5d9a.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20141117_101204_zps0e3a5d9a.jpg.html)
http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20141117_101011_zps326ee07a.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20141117_101011_zps326ee07a.jpg.html)http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20141117_101018_zps88667809.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20141117_101018_zps88667809.jpg.html)http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20141117_101028_zpsf1723381.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20141117_101028_zpsf1723381.jpg.html)
This is what i have to work with

Seerlah
01-04-2015, 01:02 PM
APR Stage 3+ is a GT2860RS aka Disco Potato. That turbo runs 12s with a competent driver. I don't have that particular kit, but can assist you in getting it back to shape (or better than how it was). There are a few of us who can help.

And not to be that guy, but that mechanic you are dealing with does not seem the best person to deal with. For example, gas in the oil. Mr. Obvious would say someone flooded the chambers, and that gas went past the piston rings into the oil sump. Not saying that's what happened...but most likely is. $5,000 bill and the car should have been in 95-100% complete working order. And for him to not notice a T25 inconel exhaust manifold that has APR stamped on it with a disco potato attached to it is kind of sketchy.

Davdraco1
01-04-2015, 01:56 PM
What else would it take to make it a 12's car? Is an elim kit comparable to the stage 3 apr kit?

Seerlah
01-04-2015, 02:12 PM
Eliminator setups were made by a company called ATP for plug and play using stock flanges. The APR kit is essentially also a bolt in, except uses a T25 flange and other APR components (ie APR HFC, MAF, tube, etc). Eliminators can also get you into 12s with a competent driver.

ray4624
01-04-2015, 02:28 PM
The aeb wasn't offered in the stage 3+ kit. Just the stage 3.

Hopefully you got the car for a steal and I look foreword to the revival!


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Seerlah
01-04-2015, 02:43 PM
Then why he post Stage 3+ [confused]

If that's the case then he has a GT28R/GT2560R. Not quite sure that will place the car into 12s. Doubtful...and def not lower 12s. But I could be wrong...or not! Competent drivers make a worlds of a difference.

Davdraco1
01-04-2015, 03:27 PM
I was thinking of doing the elim gt2871r kit. Plus a good clutch obviously. Would that be 12's material?

Seerlah
01-04-2015, 03:31 PM
Yes

ray4624
01-04-2015, 03:44 PM
If you can get me pics of the numbers on the turbo I would be interested in trading my 2871r elim for that apr mani and turbo.

I would want it to be the 2860rs


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Avant Nate
01-04-2015, 06:07 PM
Someone wants a apr manifold.

Have you done a boost leak test?

ray4624
01-04-2015, 06:12 PM
Why wouldn't i? Haha


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codyturner
01-04-2015, 06:18 PM
The mechanic knew that there was little stock about the engine bay (keep in mind i didnt find my parts list until long after my mechanic got it running reliably) This is why he didnt want to play around with it too much.

He has no shortage of "easy" oem work. He is a good mechanic with a business model to make him money and i can respect that. Basically aftermarket isnt his specialty and it wouldnt be economically feasible to make him do it. Especially since i consider myself an enthusiast and would like to learn as much as possible.

The guy said it was a stage 3+ but it's possible he was exaggerating to sell the car.

I bought the car for $6500.

I am looking at doing an intercooler soon. Someone mentioned there is a slight turbo difference between stage 3 and 3+. Do i need to know for sure which kit i have or will both kits be compatible with the same pipe diameter?

ray4624
01-04-2015, 06:20 PM
The piping should all be the same. Main difference was the turbo, tune and injectors.

One came with the 2860 disco potato and the other with a gt28r

He very well could have just bought the turbo and manifold and used a different tune and injectors other then what comes with the apr kit.

Read through the ad and it does specifically say that it's a 28rs (stage 3+) so who knows.

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dcampana
01-05-2015, 09:45 PM
Stage 3 is stage 3. None of this + or - that's just batty... Lol ;-)

Elim 2871r will get you to the 12's ... I have a best of 12.8x with that.

However running at 25psi on a stock bottom end will make it "aircooled". Ask me how I know... Haha

6500 seems steep for what you got OP but depends on location. Just my opinion. Once all squared away it should be a real fun daily.

I have an allroad as my dd now...

ray4624
01-05-2015, 10:43 PM
Stage 3 is stage 3. None of this + or - that's just batty... Lol ;-)



You are incorrect.
Apr has two different kits
Stage 3 for 99-2000 with gt28r
Stage 3+ for 2001 with gt28rs


For everyone else, stage 3 just means gt sized turbo.


I am also waiting to blow my motor on my 2871. It will give me an excuse to build my spare motor lol.

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viceprp
01-06-2015, 05:48 AM
Hopefully you get this car squared away. It will be a really fun car to drive. If it were me, I would keep that setup til the turbo blows and upgrade to a t25 2871, tune and in later. Sorry ray, lol.

Did they do a compression test? This will help determine if the rungs were the cause to the gas in the oil. With it being in a front end collision, it broadens the possibilities.

That turbo is small and would say the PO was blowing smoke with the 12.18. It's a low 13/high 12 second car.

codyturner
01-10-2015, 10:39 AM
Bump added pics, open to ideas and advice.

Seerlah
01-10-2015, 12:39 PM
That engine bay needs a really good cleaning. That air filter...[o_o].

The bucking and black smoke sounds like a really bad combustion. I would start by changing out your plugs and place CRC MAF cleaner on your MAF (log if you can). Oh yeah, clean that intake filter. It's filthy. Clean your whole engine bay. But with the exposed wire situation going on in there...don't get any wire wet. I would also check your injector wiring. One of them looks like not in the best shape. FWIW, I redid mine.

demonmk2
01-10-2015, 04:04 PM
very interesting thread... I so happen to be running a stage 3+ turbo setup on my 98 minus the Apr tune. and you also have what looks like the remnence of a carbonio intake.
I may be able to help also. that DV is it a blow off valve or does it recirculate? it needs to recirculate.

rodgertherabit
01-10-2015, 04:20 PM
purple dv posted looked like a Greddy or knockoff piece. Not sure if there was a hose on the other end tho...Would put a hose on that ASAP!

I also had the apr stage 3/3+ kit on my b5... If you end up taking the manifold off the head, chech all 4 turbo->manifold nuts. They tend to loosen up alot.

demonmk2
01-10-2015, 04:27 PM
did your "mechanic" pull any codes?

codyturner
01-10-2015, 06:07 PM
In chronilogical order here is my invoice for all the work my mechanic did since i got the car. http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20150110_195004_zpsf64bc1a0.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20150110_195004_zpsf64bc1a0.jpg.html)http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20150110_194941_zps6b673642.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20150110_194941_zps6b673642.jpg.html)http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20150110_195013_zpsa7b5a046.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20150110_195013_zpsa7b5a046.jpg.html)

codyturner
01-10-2015, 06:08 PM
I cant find the codes (it has been nearly a year since the first invoice)

demonmk2
01-10-2015, 06:30 PM
you need to make sure he put in a 4 br fpr and not a 3 br fpr

do a smoke test

demonmk2
01-10-2015, 06:54 PM
just for shitzz unplug you maf sensor and see what happens.

demonmk2
01-10-2015, 07:31 PM
if you want to invest in it I would do the ICM delete 2.0t coil pack conversion and get a
forged DV. you will need a better intercooler too.
the eBay crx front mount/with piping will work fine with what you have.
if you wanted to change the tune ( off the shelf )
the 630cc file unitedmotorsports has is a great tune for this setup.

ray4624
01-10-2015, 09:37 PM
^yea buy my UM STAGE 3 haha

Also second everything he said. The 2.0 is a great upgrade to the coils.


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Seerlah
01-10-2015, 10:21 PM
Poor fuel flow would not be caused by the regulator. It could be caused by clogged fuel filter though. Faulty regulator would mess with your fuel pressure...and not flow per se.

Turbo_B5
01-10-2015, 10:30 PM
how many kms?

demonmk2
01-11-2015, 05:39 AM
I'm wondering if his mechanic stated that because of the black smut/smoke coming out of the exhaust.
bad injectors could explain the fuel in oil.

how can you have good fuel pressure and not have good fuel flow?

demonmk2
01-11-2015, 05:44 AM
I think you have a massive leak some where and the ecu is trying to compensate
hence the black smoke.

Seerlah
01-11-2015, 07:01 AM
That engine bay is a mess. My suggestion:

-2.0 coil pack and ICM delete (suggested above)
-replace fuel filter
-replace fuel injector wires
-clean MAF sensor (you def need some logs)
-clean engine bay
-replace all filters, matter of fact (ie can't imagine your cabin filter looking any better than that engine bay)
-check your spark plug gaps (I would not be surprised if they are gapped incorrectly right now. but if you do the 2.0 conversion, open the gap to at least .035")
-boost leak test
-replace your primary o2 sensor just for the heck of it (new car for you, start fresh with new sensor if you have no idea last time it was replaced)


And I still believe that fuel in oil was from someone cranking the car without it starting. Then that fuel made it's way down the cylinder walls into the oil sump. Taking a guess. But it appears you have a huge fueling problem. My suggestions above basically hitting the culprit areas at one time.

What exactly is going on there with the injector #1 circuit?

codyturner
01-11-2015, 09:43 AM
Thanks for the advice, now i know where to start.

The fuel in the oil issue: timeframe is within the first month i got this car. At this point i could hold 21psi. I was boostin @21 and the car stopped. I though the hose blew off the tb like usual. But this time it wasnt. Its possible the pipe coming out of my smic popped of jn this instance. I was new and didnt look hard enough. I called a tow truck driver and he was determined to drive it up the flat deck. He stalled harshly 3 times before i freaked out on him (i wouldnt call a tow truck if i could drive it lol...). He finally winched me up and took it to my mechanics for the first time.

I think the tow truck driver may have had something to do with the oil growing. It's never happened since. He felt bad and gave me $100 discount on the tow

codyturner
01-11-2015, 09:47 AM
I dont see anything about injector 1 circuit. He replaced #2 ignition coil and secured n122 ignition amplifier

Seerlah
01-11-2015, 09:49 AM
Since you are now an Audi (VAG) owner, sign up for AAA. Comes with the territory.

And your injector one circuit has a wire going into the false firewall. Or am I seeing things incorrectly?

codyturner
01-11-2015, 10:26 AM
These two wires are shittily twisted together.http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20150111_120615_zps2d794cbf.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20150111_120615_zps2d794cbf.jpg.html) the yellow wire continues through insulation and through false firewall into another piece of insulation shortly after. http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20150111_120717_zpsfa346755.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20150111_120717_zpsfa346755.jpg.html) from there im not sure where that goes. Turbo timer?http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20150111_120757_zps2a2e429b.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20150111_120757_zps2a2e429b.jpg.html) its in that insulation

Seerlah
01-11-2015, 10:34 AM
That's a pretty important item of your car. I would trace that wiring to really see what's going on. I redid my injector wires...and it wasn't a hack job like that.

http://s18.postimg.org/ykggeiawp/h2o_16.jpg

codyturner
01-11-2015, 10:40 AM
What size of wiring did you use? Im definitely doing that. And all the other cheap things until pay day

codyturner
01-11-2015, 10:44 AM
^yea buy my UM STAGE 3 haha

Also second everything he said. The 2.0 is a great upgrade to the coils.


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What kind of boost figures does this tune have?

Seerlah
01-11-2015, 11:01 AM
You can buy the pig tails. I run Bosch Ev14 injectors, so the connector is different. I run different connectors now so I don't need to use adapter for the Jetronic to US adapter. But you can pick up pig tails on ebay for cheap, or higher quality ones from various companies for more money (ie I have higher end ones that will go on later if I ever need to swap style connectors again). Just solder or button connect and heat shrink as necessary.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=bosch+ev1+connector+pigtail&_from=R40%7CR40%7CR40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1312.R1.TR0.TRC0.A0.H1.Xbos ch+ev1+connector+pigtail+audi&_nkw=bosch+ev1+connector+pigtail&_sacat=0

ray4624
01-11-2015, 11:23 AM
What kind of boost figures does this tune have?

Spikes at 25 (pegs the gauge) and I hold 22 until I let off. Check their website for more info.

I'm going with their stage 4 once I build my bottom end.

Obviously you will want to clear up all the little stuff first.


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codyturner
01-11-2015, 11:30 AM
Spikes at 25 (pegs the gauge) and I hold 22 until I let off. Check their website for more info.

I'm going with their stage 4 once I build my bottom end.

Obviously you will want to clear up all the little stuff first.


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Will i be able to hit wot? After the other stuff is done of course lol

ray4624
01-11-2015, 11:42 AM
What do you mean? Of course you can go wot with it lol.


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demonmk2
01-11-2015, 12:39 PM
that tune is good for 20-22 psi

ray, you're gonna run the pro Maf setup?

you do know thery'll upgrade the tune for 150 bucks right?

ray4624
01-11-2015, 12:54 PM
They don't do that any more. I talked to them this week. They give you half of what the stage 3 cost towards the stage 4. So it would be more beneficial to me to sell the tune. Kind of lame as a few people told me about the 150 upgrade and UM was like lol no. Then add on the cost of proMaf and it's not going to be cheap.

And yea like I said, the tune spikes at 25 and holds 22.



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demonmk2
01-11-2015, 01:08 PM
that's some shady bullshit...I specifically asked them about that before I bought
the tune and that's what they told me "150.00 to upgrade" and that was less than a year ago.

codyturner
01-11-2015, 01:19 PM
How much for your tune? Does it come with maf? Or will mine be alright already

ray4624
01-11-2015, 01:30 PM
that's some shady bullshit...I specifically asked them about that before I bought
the tune and that's what they told me "150.00 to upgrade" and that was less than a year ago.

Yea idk the kid didn't seem to really know what was going on. I was bummed as it would be so easy for me just to pay to upgrade.


How much for your tune? Does it come with maf? Or will mine be alright already

Shoot me a pm for pricing.
Depending on the maf you have now, you may need one. The tune requires a vr6 3" OD maf. Could potentially include it aswell in the sale.


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codyturner
01-13-2015, 08:33 PM
Oil light came on this morning while car was warming up. Didnt drive it to work because i only had the better part of a quart with me. I got some rotella t6 after work. The oil immediately leaked out. The car was running and i could see oil gushing out of a crack or something near the back of the engine near coolant re si voir. Coolant levels are fine, don't know if that's relevant or not. The cap had some gummy milky stuff on it and the oil that leaked out looked a little milky too. Does this mean it is likely a gasket? I'm sure i have other oil leaks (which i will tend to as i find them). Also right underneath a senor. Heres a pic.
http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/Mobile%20Uploads/20150113_220427_zps90aa30a3.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150113_220427_zps90aa30a3.jpg.html) im not sure if you guys can see that. I'll try for a better one during daylight

demonmk2
01-14-2015, 06:01 AM
Could be the oil cooler gasket ( cross your fingers that's all it is)

Good call on not driving it.
I would not drive it until you figure out where it's coming from.

codyturner
01-15-2015, 04:06 PM
Did lots more reasearch. Ordered the o ring and oil + filter. Should be in by monday. Cant wait to get her driving again so i can pull her into a shop and go through the engine bay looking for boost/vac/oil/coolant leaks
[:d]

codyturner
01-16-2015, 07:30 PM
Well payday came around, im looking for a greddy type s bov to replace the one on my car. I understand some people dont like the thought of a bov, however i also have seen a couple aeb guys post in the 1.8t tech sayong they dont have a problem with their greddy type s. I looked on the greddy website and i just dont know what im looking for. Can i trust a part number on the outside of my current "greddy type s"? or do i have to take the housing apart in order confirm what i need to order.

My goal here is to get the car running with the parts list that the PO listed before i start trying to improve the setup. I will still be fixing leaks and shit obviously too

ray4624
01-17-2015, 12:17 AM
There's one for sale in the forced induction classifieds on vwvortex


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melomandn
01-17-2015, 08:51 AM
Nobody really sees huge issues when running one, but your car will never run perfect. No reputable tuner will tune your car with a bov as well.

codyturner
01-17-2015, 09:09 AM
The forge 007 looked good with its interchangable springs. I want one of those honestly. But im afraid if i buy it, it may not fit where my greddy currently is. My current greddy is straight effed so i need something really soon. Does anyone have insight on whether or not ill be able to slap on a forge 007 (with the green or yellow spring) in the same spot as my greddy? Should i expect to buy another product in order for install?

I am looking at ordering BKR7E sparkplugs because they have a decent rep. And the 2.0 coil conversion in the near future(havent researched enough about it yet). What gap would you recommend before and after conversion? 0.026 before and 0.040 after?

codyturner
01-17-2015, 10:49 AM
O ring should be here monday, just ordered forge 007 machined silver dv + dv tuning kit + bkr7e plugs. I also have a bunch of oil and 2 new oil filters. I'm gonna try to flush a bunch of shit out before i put new good oil and the final fresh oil filter in.

demonmk2
01-17-2015, 03:39 PM
Good deal. I hope it cures the problem.

madtown
01-18-2015, 05:37 AM
The aeb wasn't offered in the stage 3+ kit. Just the stage 3.

Hopefully you got the car for a steal and I look foreword to the revival!


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For the record, APR did indeed offer a Stage 3+ for the aeb A4. I have one on my car ('98 A4). Very few out there, and the tune was never really finalized. APR moved on and quit selling the package. I was a guinea pig. After running rich for 4 or 5 years, I converted to 630 cc injectors and a United Motorsport tune. I run gas in winter and have a separate E85 tune for summer. If that's truly the setup in the subject car, I strongly recommend United Motorsports.

I'm looking at the 2.0 coilpack conversion as a final step, that's one weak link in my car.

codyturner
01-18-2015, 06:59 AM
Thank you for this info. I called apr a couple of days ago asking a few questions about there kit and explained my situation. All was well at first. Then i asked what size maf they use (so i could compare with mine) and suddenly the guy gets all weird and goes thats proprietary information. *Click* hung up on me real fast. Service like that makes me not want to be an apr customer haha.

The united 630cc needs 3"vr6 od maf.
madtown was your apr maf close to this size?

demonmk2
01-18-2015, 07:57 AM
Apr is going through some changes right now. Lol

ray4624
01-18-2015, 02:04 PM
For the record, APR did indeed offer a Stage 3+ for the aeb A4. I have one on my car ('98 A4). Very few out there, and the tune was never really finalized. APR moved on and quit selling the package. I was a guinea pig. After running rich for 4 or 5 years, I converted to 630 cc injectors and a United Motorsport tune. I run gas in winter and have a separate E85 tune for summer. If that's truly the setup in the subject car, I strongly recommend United Motorsports.

I'm looking at the 2.0 coilpack conversion as a final step, that's one weak link in my car.

Hmm so I stand corrected. Was it offered on the site or a special order thing?

Which um tune are you running? I have the stage 3 now and love it but I was thinking about stage 4 and promaf.


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codyturner
01-18-2015, 02:57 PM
You can buy the pig tails. I run Bosch Ev14 injectors, so the connector is different. I run different connectors now so I don't need to use adapter for the Jetronic to US adapter. But you can pick up pig tails on ebay for cheap, or higher quality ones from various companies for more money (ie I have higher end ones that will go on later if I ever need to swap style connectors again). Just solder or button connect and heat shrink as necessary.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=bosch+ev1+connector+pigtail&_from=R40%7CR40%7CR40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1312.R1.TR0.TRC0.A0.H1.Xbos ch+ev1+connector+pigtail+audi&_nkw=bosch+ev1+connector+pigtail&_sacat=0


For the record, APR did indeed offer a Stage 3+ for the aeb A4. I have one on my car ('98 A4). Very few out there, and the tune was never really finalized. APR moved on and quit selling the package. I was a guinea pig. After running rich for 4 or 5 years, I converted to 630 cc injectors and a United Motorsport tune. I run gas in winter and have a separate E85 tune for summer. If that's truly the setup in the subject car, I strongly recommend United Motorsports.

I'm looking at the 2.0 coilpack conversion as a final step, that's one weak link in my car.

When you converted to the united motorsport tune what did you have to change? You stated injectors and the tune itself. Did you keep the turbo and manifold from the stage 3+?

ray4624
01-18-2015, 03:01 PM
Manifold wouldn't have anything to do with the tune. It's the best part of the apr kit. Depending on which tune he got you would need the tune, injectors and maf. Did you figure out what you have for a maf?


With genesis injectors from usrt you won't need adapters or anything. That's what I run. They are just modified ev14s

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codyturner
01-18-2015, 03:13 PM
Manifold wouldn't have anything to do with the tune. It's the best part of the apr kit. Depending on which tune he got you would need the tune, injectors and maf. Did you figure out what you have for a maf?


With genesis injectors from usrt you won't need adapters or anything. That's what I run. They are just modified ev14s

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I did not figure out what size maf i have, is there an easy way to find out? I can go out and check if its gonna take less than 20 min. I still have parts money left and i havent forgot about that stage 3 tune of yours :p. I just want to make sure I'm buyjng things in the right order. If i were to get your tune, how would i go about installing it? I would basically be buying your "tuned ecu" and you would go get a different ecu with your stage4?

ray4624
01-18-2015, 03:15 PM
Yea I would buy an ecu with the stage 4 already on it.

The ecu install takes about 10 minutes. You unplug the old one and plug the new one in.

As for your maf just measure the inside diameter where the air filter is. Take some better pics if you can. Any part numbers on it would also be helpful.


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codyturner
01-18-2015, 04:33 PM
Just waiting for photobucket to upload pics. Do you use the "630cc genisis 2" high impedance injectors ray?

codyturner
01-18-2015, 04:42 PM
Here's maf numbers, not sure which to acknowledge. I didnt measure it(figured part number should take care of that).http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20150118_181615_zps3cd18f2c.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20150118_181615_zps3cd18f2c.jpg.html)

Some other pics of that neighbourhood
http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20150118_181625_zpsf47a665c.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20150118_181625_zpsf47a665c.jpg.html)
http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20150118_181643_zps86513c77.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20150118_181643_zps86513c77.jpg.html)http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/codyturner7298/20150118_181703_zps529ad318.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/codyturner7298/media/20150118_181703_zps529ad318.jpg.html)

codyturner
01-18-2015, 04:44 PM
pic request

Here ya go man

ray4624
01-18-2015, 07:12 PM
I have no idea what maf that is.
Does that piece with the t18t number have the sensor in it? I can't tell from the pics. It may just be part of the intake remnants.


I use the genesis 2 injectors. I originally used them with 12mm injector hats but my bbm fuel rail negates the need for them.

These are what I have
http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10_44_287&products_id=1789


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codyturner
01-18-2015, 07:15 PM
Yeah it has the sensor mounted on top of that plastic piece with the number

ray4624
01-18-2015, 10:47 PM
I'm no expert on the subject. T really doesn't tell us anything as you don't know what the tune calls for anyways.


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madtown
01-19-2015, 04:23 AM
Thank you for this info. I called apr a couple of days ago asking a few questions about there kit and explained my situation. All was well at first. Then i asked what size maf they use (so i could compare with mine) and suddenly the guy gets all weird and goes thats proprietary information. *Click* hung up on me real fast. Service like that makes me not want to be an apr customer haha.

The united 630cc needs 3"vr6 od maf. was your apr maf close to this size?

Yup, pretty sure it is a 3 inch maf housing. It is an APR logoed cast housing that is using the stock MAF sensor. I remember having all kinds of difficulty getting it to fit on the Carbonio intake APR recommended (which also fit like crap). APR denied there was anything wrong with my tune for a long time, until I finally got someone to admit they had abandoned the 3+ on non-dbw cars. They stuck me pretty good.

I have a manual boost controller on my car and limit boost to 20 psi. With Jeff Atwood's tune I pulled just north of 275 hp at the wheels on a local Porsche shop's 4wd dyno. I was pretty happy with that, wasn't looking for anymore at the time. My car does foul plugs over time, I usually need to throw fresh plugs in every January. I need to throw a fresh MAF sensor in the car and maybe replace the upstream o2 sensor. After that, might try the 2.0 coils.

madtown
01-19-2015, 04:30 AM
Hmm so I stand corrected. Was it offered on the site or a special order thing?

Which um tune are you running? I have the stage 3 now and love it but I was thinking about stage 4 and promaf.


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I don't think it was offered on the site, but I can't remember for sure. I was having some issues with the turbo/manifold studs and needed to do something to fix the leak. I was Stage 3 at the time and loved it, but the 3+ promised to deliver 100 octane like performance on 93 octane pump gas. APR was preparing to bring 3+ to market, so I picked up the new tune, MAF and intake, and new turbo. Like I said, APR just changed course and I never did get a fully sorted tune.

My UM tune is Stage 3 I guess. 3 inch MAF and 630 cc injectors.

madtown
01-19-2015, 04:31 AM
When you converted to the united motorsport tune what did you have to change? You stated injectors and the tune itself. Did you keep the turbo and manifold from the stage 3+?

Injectors and tune...everything else stayed.

ray4624
01-19-2015, 07:30 AM
Yup, pretty sure it is a 3 inch maf housing. It is an APR logoed cast housing that is using the stock MAF sensor. I remember having all kinds of difficulty getting it to fit on the Carbonio intake APR recommended (which also fit like crap). APR denied there was anything wrong with my tune for a long time, until I finally got someone to admit they had abandoned the 3+ on non-dbw cars. They stuck me pretty good.

I have a manual boost controller on my car and limit boost to 20 psi. With Jeff Atwood's tune I pulled just north of 275 hp at the wheels on a local Porsche shop's 4wd dyno. I was pretty happy with that, wasn't looking for anymore at the time. My car does foul plugs over time, I usually need to throw fresh plugs in every January. I need to throw a fresh MAF sensor in the car and maybe replace the upstream o2 sensor. After that, might try the 2.0 coils.

Are you running an adjustable fpr? Atwood told me to dial back my fuel pressure a bit as they run their tunes a bit rich as a safety measure. Could be the reasoning behind your foiled plugs.


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madtown
01-19-2015, 09:39 AM
Are you running an adjustable fpr? Atwood told me to dial back my fuel pressure a bit as they run their tunes a bit rich as a safety measure. Could be the reasoning behind your foiled plugs.


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Nope...stock fpr. Jeff Atwood told me the tune is very well sorted as he runs it on his own daily driver. When I had it dynoed the A/F ratios were right on target, so I suspect something else. I'm going to change out the coolant temp sensor as well, those things fail and can cause trouble as well.

zandrew
01-20-2015, 08:24 PM
What kind of boost figures does this tune have?

If you want 12s forget the gt2871r and go for the gt3071r. I have ran both and the t25 version of the gt3071r does not give up huge amounts of spool and I drive it daily. My engine is stock and I have been boosting daily to 25psi and no windows in my block, yet. I do think the slightly longer spool time of the 3071 is easier on the engine though.

Also swapping to push in coils is very worth while upgrade.

codyturner
01-22-2015, 09:24 PM
It's 11:21 pm. Just finished cleaning up my tools. It turned out to be the o-ring as expected. Replaced o ring and remove/replace oil and filter. Going to drive for a little while tomorrow and then change oil and filter one more time.
so far i dont see any leaks

demonmk2
01-23-2015, 05:56 AM
Good deal, hopefully you're clear from that trouble.

codyturner
01-25-2015, 01:22 PM
put in some major wrench time lastnight. Friend made me a flange to install my forge 007 dv (blue spring). I put my sparkplugs in. Fixed all of the ovious boost leaks by overhauling my intercooler system (Havent upgraded to fmic or hardpipe yet, but we made a setup that is worlds better than the last guy. I think the hose/intercooler would have to rupture in order to blow the seal lol)

So far i am very happy.
Less backfires
Held 20 psi on a couple 4th &5th gear pulls. (Is is very slippery today so traction was the major limiting factor. Ill do more pulls when i find dry road)
doesnt run as rich
I can now hit WOT without hesitation or black smoke
Smiles per gallon drastically increased.
This car goes like a bat outta hell. I cant wait to do the coil conversion and fmic+hardpipe!! Thanks all for your help! I'm still open to upgrade suggestions.

demonmk2
01-25-2015, 04:53 PM
when was the last time your timing belt was changed?

codyturner
02-01-2015, 09:12 AM
when was the last time your timing belt was changed?

I'm not sure, that is above fmic on the parts list though.

Car update: found some dry pavement. Did a couple nice WOT pulls through all the gears (starting from 3k in 2nd and shiftinh at 6500) and up to roughly 180km/hr. held 22psi nicely. If there are boost leaks, they arent audible from cabin (havent actually boost leak tested in the shop).

So anyways my ra4 clutch w/LWFW decided it wasn't up to the task. It started slipping and obviously isnt getting better as the days go on. I drive my car minimally now. I think i fohnd a sweet clutch for my driving style (drag racing subies/hooning around/smalltown daily driving). I'm pretty much sold on this clutch and am already saving up for it. I was wondering if anyone had any experience With this setup? Ill do updates in this thread when i get it.

http://www.clutchmasters.com/850-series-audi-a4-quattro-4cyl-1-8l-b5-turbo-1997-2001-02027-td8s-x/

Seerlah
02-01-2015, 10:17 AM
Overkill for your application. If you want to stay with ClutchMasters, go with a 240mm FX100, 250, 300, or 350.

http://www.ringer-racing.com/product.sc?productId=99&categoryId=4

I run the 228mm FX400 6 puck. Handles my setup just fine. And an FYI, get a full faced disc if you want it to last. Mine isn't that old (maybe 20k) and I'm hoping to get another 20k or so out of it.

codyturner
02-01-2015, 10:30 AM
Overkill for your application. If you want to stay with ClutchMasters, go with a 240mm FX100, 250, 300, or 350.

http://www.ringer-racing.com/product.sc?productId=99&categoryId=4

I run the 228mm FX400 6 puck. Handles my setup just fine. And an FYI, get a full faced disc if you want it to last. Mine isn't that old (maybe 20k) and I'm hoping to get another 20k or so out of it.
That 350 looks sweet and i know i dont have 800ftlbs but my theory with the twin disc was : have the first disc sprung with a harder material and the second disc a unsprung OFE disc. I was thinking since the tough material takes the initial blow and cushions it slightly for the soft and sticky OFE to grab easlier and with less wear due to slip. Does my theory hold water?

Seerlah
02-01-2015, 10:46 AM
Ask someone who has ran it already. There are a few on here who have. But they had way much more HP at the wheels than what my or your setup is even capable of at the crank. Reason for that clutch setup or why it was even made...some people actually required it.

It isn't just about the design or clamp load. If it is a DD, driveability is something you really need to factor in.

codyturner
03-01-2015, 07:21 AM
Update: ended up getting the fx350. Got the old clutch off then called er quits (it was late and i need to order a cv axle before we put stuff back together.
The car didnt have an ra4 clutch, it had a 4puck stage 4 spec clutch on the ra4 lwfw. The spec disk didnt clear the flywheel so the guy put in the clutch disk backwards (with the side that has the "fw-side" sticker towards the pressure plate. What do you guys think about the backwards disc?

M-Hood
03-01-2015, 08:41 AM
Update: ended up getting the fx350. Got the old clutch off then called er quits (it was late and i need to order a cv axle before we put stuff back together.
The car didnt have an ra4 clutch, it had a 4puck stage 4 spec clutch on the ra4 lwfw. The spec disk didnt clear the flywheel so the guy put in the clutch disk backwards (with the side that has the "fw-side" sticker towards the pressure plate. What do you guys think about the backwards disc?

Puck disks don't tend to work on the RA4 flywheel since the center part of that flywheel is so shallow, so that might be why they flipped upside down. A full face disk like the FX400 8 pad needs to be used.

Here is another clutch setup that will work on the RA4 flywheel since it uses a full face disk. FX400/FX450 hold but in a full face material.
http://px6.streetfire.net/0002/15/33/2425133_600.jpg


Also offered in a stage 3 with organic on 1 side, holds like a FX350 but smoother engagement and longer life.

codyturner
03-01-2015, 09:10 AM
I got a steel 240mm clutchmasters flywheel with my fx350 so i shouldnt have the issue that the PO had.

codyturner
03-21-2015, 08:23 AM
Update: i have reached 1000km on the new clutch (clutchmasters fx350 with steel flywheel).
So far i am very satisfied with it. The pedal feel is much lighter that the 4 puck Spec stage 4 clutch with ra4 lwfw. Initially i was concerned. However clutchmasters claims "near oem feel" with their "hi-leverage techniques".
i quickly got used to the lighter feel of the clutch. The engagement point is still very defined. so far i have done some decent almost WOT pulls (still fighting boost leaks here and there with a poor quality intercooler setup)
After about 900km of breaking in my clutch, it was time to launch. I had my blizzack tires on. Awd burnout marks for like 4 feet! Clutch handled it no problem!
my 007 forge dv awesome (tuned to 22psi and only fluctuates by 1-2psi while diverting)

So now my order of operations is as follows:
Timing belt kit
Stabilizer bar bushing (the bolt that connects my stabilizer bar to the knuckle on the lower control arm sheared off)
Fmic w/homemade 2 stage c02 and water sprayer
2.0l coil pack conversion.
Electronic exaust dump valve
Other updates on the car
car does not seem to be leaking/losing oil anymore
Did the drivers cv axle during clutch. Both fronts are new

codyturner
06-30-2015, 08:43 AM
I forgot to post this when it happened... two days after my previous post. 1600km into the clutch and the throw out bearing for the clutch started crapping out. At first i could only shift when i matched my revs to speed. And now i cant shift gears with the car running. The car will creep ahead if im in forst gear with the clutch pedal fully depressed. I really havent had any time to rip it apart. Infact i bought a ford 7.3 turbo diesel because i was so upset with my new clutch. I think i might rip it apart soon. I will call clutchmasters and see what they will do about it. That will determine whether i write nice things about them or not.

M-Hood
06-30-2015, 10:30 AM
I forgot to post this when it happened... two days after my previous post. 1600km into the clutch and the throw out bearing for the clutch started crapping out. At first i could only shift when i matched my revs to speed. And now i cant shift gears with the car running. The car will creep ahead if im in forst gear with the clutch pedal fully depressed. I really havent had any time to rip it apart. Infact i bought a ford 7.3 turbo diesel because i was so upset with my new clutch. I think i might rip it apart soon. I will call clutchmasters and see what they will do about it. That will determine whether i write nice things about them or not.


Are you sure it is the throw-out bearing and not the pilot bearing?

Do you have any vibration in the clutch pedal and any nose while your pushing it down?

codyturner
07-01-2015, 09:32 PM
Are you sure it is the throw-out bearing and not the pilot bearing?

Do you have any vibration in the clutch pedal and any nose while your pushing it down?

Edited: im not quite sure what it is yet, i still havent had time to split the drivetrain.
symptoms
With the clutch depressed:
1. Feels and sounds like clutch is trying to grab
2. Creeps very slowly while in gear
3. Doesnt idle as smooth

codyturner
03-08-2016, 06:38 PM
Update: I finally found time to split the engine and transmission. The issue wasn't a bearing. The issue was the pressure plate. Half the pressure plate fingers are depressed further than the other half. Not sure what caused it. Not very happy to say the least. Doubt clutchmasters is going to reimburse me in any way.... I spent a little extra on my clutch in hopes that I would get quality parts. Waited 900km before I drove hard. 500 miles is the recommended break in period. Very very dis satisfied. I would give them a good review if they reimburse me. Anyone else have bad luck with clutchmasters??

tar
03-08-2016, 07:29 PM
By depressed you mean bent? As in you bent them on reinstall? Really the only thing I can think of is bad install.
Honestly this car sounds like it needs to go to a shop and have alot done I'm sad to say. It sounds like it's above ur mechanical level. Not talking shit just what it seems from All the posts in this thread.

codyturner
03-08-2016, 08:15 PM
If I messed up install wouldn't I have had problems during the break in period? It worked fine until 1600km into the clutch

- - - Updated - - -

I am a carpenter for the record

Davdraco1
03-08-2016, 08:23 PM
Did you take the clutch apart yet? I hade the 3 rivets that hold the PP together shear themselves and when I separated the motor and trans all the fingers looked depressed, so maybe one of the rivets broke. I would look into that. What did you do before it broke? You say driving hard, did you launch it?

tar
03-08-2016, 08:26 PM
True if not torqued the first launch could have loosened stuff up. Im no mechanic either so just what it sounds like to me is bent installing or uninstalling. I run a similar clutch setup and no issues. Same with alot of friends with clutch masters. Did you buy it via a vendor? Or from clutch masters. Their disks are known to fail early but the pressure plate is sourced from saches I believe


I'm a entomologist for the record. And I think he said he launched

Davdraco1
03-08-2016, 08:32 PM
I drove my first clutch fine for a week. It was used but everything was touted to spec and I launched it a few times at the track at had it come part on me shifting into 4th

codyturner
03-08-2016, 10:52 PM
Took pp off. Fingers look ok. Guess it was an optical illusion. Everything looks mint. I didn't try to bleed slave cylinder because I was sure that air didn't get into it. But thinking about it now, maybe slave cylinder isnt quite sealed anymore. (Maybe I manhandled it too much during reinstallation) so I'm going to put it all back together and bleed the clutch

Seerlah
03-09-2016, 03:49 AM
Since you have it apart, did you replace the pilot bearing when you installed the clutch? If not, def do it. Cheap $10 shipped INA part.

I had symptoms of what you listed before. With me, pilot bearing was basically eaten all ghe way through, which led the face of my TO bearing basically being eaten up to. Replaced both and have been fine ever since.

Don't know about the 240, but the 228 simply uses a stock sachs throw out bearing. Resesrch which one you have (just look at your current one) and source replacement for cheap. I also run a metal slave with braided lines.

Davdraco1
03-09-2016, 05:56 AM
I bought the metal throw out bearing from 034. It was identical to the Sachs one that came in the S4 clutch kit I bought from rock auto. I'll sell ya my new one if you want it since you have everything

codyturner
03-09-2016, 06:37 AM
My fx350 kit came with an identical sachs throw out bearing, bearing seems to be fine

Davdraco1
03-09-2016, 07:00 AM
I know if you spin it and feel any resistance or hear any grinding like noises it should be replaced. I'm sure you know this. Just wanted to comment in case you didn't. Hope it goes back together well. Good luck.

codyturner
03-09-2016, 07:01 AM
Is throw out bearing and pilot bearing the same thing?
My sachs bearing is very smooth and makes no noise

Davdraco1
03-09-2016, 07:05 AM
He pilot bearing goes into the crank shaft and the input shaft on the trans slides into it. It's about an inch long and will fit on our finger. The throwout bearing pushes on the PP fingers via the slave cylinder.

codyturner
03-09-2016, 10:29 AM
I didn't pull my pilot bearing out. I just played with it a little
Bearing is smooth with no noise. Slight in -out play. Should I replace?

Davdraco1
03-09-2016, 11:31 AM
The pilot bearing shouldn't move at all I don't think. It should just spin...... I would replace since its apart and it's only a 10-20$ part. You need a puller. I rented one from AdvancedAuto Parts. Free rental.

Seerlah
03-09-2016, 12:50 PM
Always replace when swapping a clutch. Cheap enough at $10...shipped.

codyturner
03-09-2016, 04:10 PM
Ok I'll order a pilot bearing

codyturner
03-09-2016, 04:11 PM
Is there a particular brand of pilot bearing that is trusted?

Seerlah
03-09-2016, 05:04 PM
INA

Davdraco1
03-09-2016, 08:27 PM
Just an OEM will work fine.

codyturner
03-09-2016, 10:16 PM
Thanks guys. I'll replace the pilot bearing, put car back together, bleed slave, then I'll report back