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View Full Version : 1.8t auto engine into 1.8t manual car?



champion
12-01-2014, 04:24 PM
I will try to keep this short and sweet. I found an immaculate(body/interior) 1.8t manual near me that threw a rod. The guy said something about running a bigger turbo on stock rods, then boom!. He took the turbo kit off and is basically selling the car with a blown engine for cheap.

My cousin has an automatic 1.8t engine sitting in his garage that he said he will just give it to me for free.

With that said, is there a way to get this to work? I've read something about the auto crank not working as a direct swap, something about grinding it down? I tried to search but I had only found a little information, and all that information was pertaining to the 06a block, my cousins engine is 058. Anyone know what if anything I can do to make this happen?

I'd like to pull the trigger on this before the guy sells the car, he has it for dirt cheap.

redline380
12-01-2014, 04:43 PM
Search better. This has been done a few times.

Second, as long as the car you want is 058 and the engine you want to put in is 058, the transition is very simple. There are a couple ways of doing it. I've done one of them myself, on an 058 car. I won't ruin your searching fun, but it includes using a 2.8 pilot bearing with some of it cut off and then installed in reverse. Otherwise, you use a different type of pilot bearing setup.

GrapeBandit
12-01-2014, 05:02 PM
^lol
I have a question about this. why does it matter if its going from 058 auto to 058 manual or 06a manual? the transmission input shaft is the same on the 058 and 06a, no?

one of my b5s is a 2.8 that im trying to convert to 1.8 and I can only find good working auto cars

redline380
12-01-2014, 05:06 PM
^lol
I have a question about this. why does it matter if its going from 058 auto to 058 manual or 06a manual? the transmission input shaft is the same on the 058 and 06a, no?

When swapping an 06a into an 058 car, transmission has nothing to do with it. Motor mounts and accessories do. Not that I have a attempted it, but others have and there are a few caveats. It's just easier sticking with the correct engine unless there is a specific reason for going 06a, such as aftermarket support.

GrapeBandit
12-01-2014, 05:10 PM
When swapping an 06a into an 058 car, transmission has nothing to do with it. Motor mounts and accessories do. Not that I have a attempted it, but others have and there are a few caveats. It's just easier sticking with the correct engine unless there is a specific reason for going 06a, such as aftermarket support.

if one has a full donor car, the only caveat would be the crankshaft if its an auto. I know thats not the case for op, but it will be for me since im going to need all the mounts, wiring, ecu, etc, thats why im choosing to get a donor car.

redline380
12-01-2014, 05:16 PM
if one has a full donor car, the only caveat would be the crankshaft if its an auto. I know thats not the case for op, but it will be for me since im going to need all the mounts, wiring, ecu, etc, thats why im choosing to get a donor car.


Well, duh! If I have a full donor car, I could swap over just about anything. Not as simple for someone who purchased an engine and needs to piece together everything to make it work.

GrapeBandit
12-01-2014, 05:18 PM
Well, duh! If I have a full donor car, I could swap over just about anything. Not as simple for someone who purchased an engine and needs to piece together everything to make it work.

yeah, obvious is obvious lol...
if I find what needs to be done to the 058 auto crank, ill post it for op. I need to know this too.

redline380
12-01-2014, 05:26 PM
Fine. Whatever. Here ya go.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/420732-YET-another-5-speed-swap-in-progress?p=6362409&viewfull=1#post6362409

GrapeBandit
12-01-2014, 05:27 PM
"-To address the commonly known pilot bearing issue and where it might go, an alternator bearing will be placed inside the flywheel to act as a pilot bearing for the input shaft. This bearing has an outer diameter of 43mm and inner diameter of 15mm.For the bearing to fit, the end of the crank will be shaved down 4mm. This can be purchased from www.zorkos.com , PN#A-6941"
^taken from here. . .http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/299543-Biketsai-s-DIY-Auto-to-Manual-Conversion?highlight=

redline380
12-01-2014, 05:30 PM
"-To address the commonly known pilot bearing issue and where it might go, an alternator bearing will be placed inside the flywheel to act as a pilot bearing for the input shaft. This bearing has an outer diameter of 43mm and inner diameter of 15mm.For the bearing to fit, the end of the crank will be shaved down 4mm. This can be purchased from www.zorkos.com , PN#A-6941"
^taken from here. . .http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/299543-Biketsai-s-DIY-Auto-to-Manual-Conversion?highlight=

Or, don't shave it at all and just do it Walky's way.

GrapeBandit
12-01-2014, 05:32 PM
Or, don't shave it at all and just do it Walky's way.
yea, ill be looking into both ways, since I would need to get a flywheel if I get an auto donor car.

champion
12-01-2014, 05:38 PM
Well thanks guys[up] That made my mind up for me! I'm glad this is going to work.

champion
12-01-2014, 06:10 PM
Fine. Whatever. Here ya go.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/420732-YET-another-5-speed-swap-in-progress?p=6362409&viewfull=1#post6362409
Am I interpreting this correct? Walkys way uses an ATW/AWM flywheel that has a 43mm/29mm hole and biketsai used an AEB flywheel with a straight 43mm hole?

redline380
12-01-2014, 06:46 PM
Am I interpreting this correct? Walkys way uses an ATW/AWM flywheel that has a 43mm/29mm hole and biketsai used an AEB flywheel with a straight 43mm hole?

On the one I did, it was an AEB flywheel going onto an AEB auto crank. I made no other revisions to get it to fit besides using Walky's pilot bearing solution

champion
12-01-2014, 06:52 PM
On the one I did, it was an AEB flywheel going onto an AEB auto crank. I made no other revisions to get it to fit besides using Walky's pilot bearing solution

So what flywheel did biketsai use? Why do they have different size holes in them?

walky_talky20
12-01-2014, 09:00 PM
From my thread which was linked above:


the B6 Flywheel (and likewise the ATW and AWM 1.8T flywheels) do not have a simple 43mm hole in the center. It tapers down to a 29mm hole due to the integrated center-bearing for the Dual-Mass operation.

So if you have an original AEB dual-mass flywheel (97-99.5 model years) OR you have any aftermarket flywheel ever made, you have a 43mm hole to work with and you can use either method described above.
But if you have 2000+ OEM dual mass flywheel (ATW, AWM, or AMB for North American market), then only one of the methods will work for you.

"But Mr....ah...Walky(?) sir, I am TOTES SKETCHED OUT by both of those methods. Is there any other way save for swapping the crankshaft?!" you may ask.

Firstly, It's Mr. Talky. How many times...and secondly, Yes. Probably the most professional solution is a custom machined insert for the Auto crank which recreates the manual crank "snout" and appropriate mounting area for the correct pilot bearing. The only seller of these adapters that I know of was INA Engineering. For a time he was selling brand new 1.8T crate engines. The issue was they were all Auto engines and he was selling to performance-minded clientele. So he designed and manufactured these adapter inserts. I've not seen one, or even a picture of one - but I have no doubt they were real (and spectacular). The only downside was that they were expensive. I think $50 or $60 each. Something like that. Sadly, the publishing of my V6 pilot bearing method put his adapters out of business. My bad.

redline380
12-02-2014, 05:53 AM
The only seller of these adapters that I know of was INA Engineering. For a time he was selling brand new 1.8T crate engines. The issue was they were all Auto engines and he was selling to performance-minded clientele. So he designed and manufactured these adapter inserts. I've not seen one, or even a picture of one - but I have no doubt they were real (and spectacular). The only downside was that they were expensive. I think $50 or $60 each. Something like that. Sadly, the publishing of my V6 pilot bearing method put his adapters out of business. My bad.

Not sure if you remember, but the guy whose engine I put in (and had to do this adaption) bought one of the last crate motors from INA. He never mentioned any adapters to us and just listed your thread so we could adapt the auto crank to the manual trans. So, I did it your way. The car is still on the road, I would imagine it has close to 10k miles on it by now.

M-Hood
12-02-2014, 07:32 AM
So what flywheel did biketsai use? Why do they have different size holes in them?
He used a CM single mass flywheel.

walky_talky20
12-02-2014, 03:42 PM
Not sure if you remember, but the guy whose engine I put in (and had to do this adaption) bought one of the last crate motors from INA. He never mentioned any adapters to us and just listed your thread so we could adapt the auto crank to the manual trans. So, I did it your way. The car is still on the road, I would imagine it has close to 10k miles on it by now.

I do recall. People were accusing him of charging exhorbitant prices on the adapters when "Walky did it for basically free". He didn't want people to think he was robbing them blind, so instead just recommends either alternative method. However, for someone who is "totes sketched out" by cutting and/or grinding metal parts, I'm sure he would still sell a super-fancy adapter.

If I were a shop (which I'm not, because I'm a person...but if I were) which was selling 5MT/6MT swaps as a service, I would be interested in the nicer adapter solution. It's just better, although a bit more expensive. I sometimes feel bad about killing the market for those. Sometimes. But I feel like Chris deserves to share some of the blame with me.

Wizard-of-OD
12-16-2014, 10:39 AM
He never mentioned any adapters to us and just listed your thread so we could adapt the auto crank to the manual trans.
For reference this is the original thread where it was all outlined.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/584585-New-crate-motor-from-INA-engineering-Daily-driver-for-now-build-to-come
Just for clarification the "he" in the above is INA or your client? Whatever the case , whether I spoke with you/your client , either one of you were told about the V6 pilot bearing prior to payment being sent over.
We sold the adapter for $150 USD due to the machine time involved + the cost of a pilot bearing . Again as reiterated , not really worth it when the V6 pilot bearing does the job.

This is not really rocket science. Walky_talky did community a great service. He made a complex $150 part simple with a $10 part and that gets props in my books. Prior to us manufacturing our adapter , I did not know about the V6 pilot bearing until he posted.

[up][up] for Walky_talky

walky_talky20
12-16-2014, 10:51 AM
Thank you for the kind words, Issam. Means a lot coming from you.

Just so I know for future reference, can you still sell the machined adapter at $150 or thereabouts? Any pics of said adapter?

redline380
12-16-2014, 11:16 AM
Just for clarification the "he" in the above is INA or your client? Whatever the case , whether I spoke with you/your client , either one of you were told about the V6 pilot bearing prior to payment being sent over.

The "he" I was talking about was INA, or more specifically, you. You did talk to both of us. My problem was that I did not know about having to adapt the crank for a manual until I opened up the crate and saw the crank. Whether or not you told him before you sold it is between you guys, but no information was relayed to me about it.

And not like it matters anyways. Everything worked out just fine. The engine is still running great, and we didn't run into any problems with adapting the crank. It set me back a couple hours trying to find the correct parts, but it all worked out in the end. The V6 bearing definitely does the job. I was a tad weirded out at first with the method and cutting off some of the bearing cap, but like I said, all's well that ends well.

And lol at him being my "client." I won't get any clients until I pass the bar exam. He was just some guy that wanted me to fix his car. Not like I have a shop or anything.

Wizard-of-OD
12-16-2014, 11:23 AM
but no information was relayed to me about it.
That is fine but for clarity sake , I wanted to make it clear that the information was relayed. To come out on an open forum several months later and say the information was not relayed is a bit misleading.
Glad it all worked out.


Just so I know for future reference, can you still sell the machined adapter at $150 or thereabouts? Any pics of said adapter?
I sent you the pdf drawing to the email you sent over. For future reference we can but people will still go the $10 route.
Once it is turned on a lathe , you really can't tell it was not done "professionally"

HTH

redline380
12-16-2014, 11:32 AM
That is fine but for clarity sake , I wanted to make it clear that the information was relayed. To come out on an open forum several months later and say the information was not relayed is a bit misleading.
Glad it all worked out.

Well, I can say the information did not get relayed to me, because it didn't. I had no idea the crank was an auto until I looked at it. But that is neither here nor there. If you told the buyer about it, then I guess he forgot to tell me. But it doesn't matter at this point he forgot to tell who what. I'd rather not bicker about it. What is important is we got the engine in and it works. Pulling out the sleeve and putting in a bearing was not that big of deal, I just didn't know I had to do that ahead of time.

walky_talky20
12-16-2014, 02:47 PM
I sent you the pdf drawing to the email you sent over.

I didn't see anything come through. Sent you a PM.