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View Full Version : 2000 1.8t GIAC chip - No power gains?



zabranca
11-23-2014, 07:02 PM
Hello all,

I recently purchased a used GIAC "chipped" ecu for my 2000 1.8t MT. The chipped ecu and my stock ecu have the same part numbers and was allegedly removed from a 5spd car. I installed the ecu but I have not recognized any power gains. The car shuttered and ran rough for a few seconds upon initial start up but that's about it. I opened up the chipped ecu and the GIAC chip says "018P0969.U8A AVE." I called a rep from my local GIAC dealer and he said the chip was an old and outdated design from the early 2000's and would have to do about an hour's worth of investigation to see what was up.

Is there something I am missing? APR chips have sequences to change between modes, but GIAC does not. Do I need a GIAC handheld flash loader or is that only for truly flashed ECU's rather than chipped?

Any help would be great,

Thanks!

redline380
11-23-2014, 07:43 PM
Throttle body alignment.

I doubt the chip is bad, something else is causing the issue.

Saskwatch
11-23-2014, 07:51 PM
if the chip were bad, you would have a paper weight and a non running car.

zabranca
11-23-2014, 07:52 PM
I have forced the car through the readiness test which includes the TB alignment. I can try again but it should be good. Also, I have upgraded the DV to the 710N after installing the chipped ecu- no change.

RallyeBourne
11-23-2014, 07:53 PM
Check for boost leaks. My car held 11psi fine with my manual boost controller, which is what I was told I'd be making with it. But then, this week I bought a 17psi tune from k0mpresd, and I hit 11psi. Wtf, right? After some testing, I have some slight leaks that need fixed.

RallyeBourne
11-23-2014, 07:54 PM
And if you don't have a boost gauge, that should have been first.

zabranca
11-23-2014, 07:55 PM
Boost leaks could be an issue, but since the car runs fine with the stock ecu, one would think more PSI would translate to power gains even if some percentage was being lost. Where are the most common points of failure for leaks?

Saskwatch
11-23-2014, 08:05 PM
any tube or vacuum line running off the intake manifold, and of course your charge pipes, check valves. What psi are you hitting?.

pbcrazy
11-23-2014, 08:32 PM
Do you have a boost gauge? If you've been in limp mode then the car will feel the same as you have the same amount of boost.

Saskwatch
11-23-2014, 08:46 PM
I am going to go ahead and call no boost gauge or duder would already be talking boost numbers.
/shitthread

M-Hood
11-24-2014, 10:30 AM
If you have a Vagcom just log block 115 for requested boost and actual boost.

zabranca
11-24-2014, 01:27 PM
All the info below is with a stock ECU...

I tied in my vacuum/boost gauge to the FPR line and have about 3-4 max PSI (near redline) revving under no load. At WOT under load in 2nd and 3rd I peak at 7.5PSI almost exactly. I did some data logging...I can see lagging in specified vs. actual starting at around 3k RPM but will soon catch up.

RPM Specified Actual
2040 RPM 1100 990
2160 RPM 1200 1090
2280RPM 1470 1130
2520RPM 1560 1230
2640RPM 1540 1280
2960RPM 1540 1380
3120RPM 1560 1440
3520RPM 1570 1530
3680RPM 1580 1550


Also, I did an earlier pull and from 800 to 2800 RPM and the logged specified mbar stayed at 990 with no change?

Ideas?

RallyeBourne
11-24-2014, 01:58 PM
I think pbcrazy is right, and you may be in limp mode. There's more to it, but essentially, the n75 stays open so that the car only hits waste gate pressure, which is around 3-4psi. It does so to protect the motor. Solve the issue, clear the limp mode, and enjoy the new tune.

zabranca
11-24-2014, 02:04 PM
Check my revision above, still thinking the same thing? I also don't have any codes currently.

B5nDisciple
11-24-2014, 02:09 PM
If you are planning on getting a boost gauge check out the 25% off Podi sale (one day only): http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/625359-podi-Black-Friday-sale-25-off-EVERYTHING

That would bring this $159.00 setup down to $120.00 [up] http://www.podi.ca/P1Packages.aspx?CarID=6
I've had mine for a few months and it's awesome. Super good deal at that price too.

RallyeBourne
11-24-2014, 02:36 PM
Stock ecu, you should see about 7.5 psi. That is correct. However, don't bother reading boost with no load. You'll never make full boost with no load.

Now, swap ecu's back to the chipped, and do the same log. See what happens.

zabranca
11-24-2014, 04:15 PM
Chipped ECU installed:

Max boost is about 7.5-8 at WOT in 2nd and 3rd

Data logging reveals:

RPM Specified Actual
2080 1890 1050
2240 2210 1100
2400 2180 1160
2560 2160 1210
2760 2110 1270
2960 2080 1330
3200 2080 1400
3400 2090 1470
3640 2090 1510
3880 2080 1520
4120 2060 1520
4320 2030 1510
4560 2000 1520
4760 1980 1510
5000 1960 1500
5200 1960 1490
5400 1930 1470


What can you guys make of these numbers? 1500mbar equates to basically 7psi, correct?

RallyeBourne
11-24-2014, 09:22 PM
http://www.convertunits.com/from/millibar/to/psi
(Use the lower conversion)

Looks like the tune is calling for 17.4 psi at its highest point, which seems right.

Some more veteran members can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking n75 valve is bad.

zabranca
11-25-2014, 01:08 PM
I thought a bad n75 automatically corrects boost to 4-5max psi? I am getting standard boost in both the chipped and stock ecu's.

zabranca
11-26-2014, 08:11 AM
I know you all are a smart bunch...what is limiting the factor? ECU asking for higher boost but not getting it.

pbcrazy
11-26-2014, 09:19 AM
I know you all are a smart bunch...what is limiting the factor? ECU asking for higher boost but not getting it.

Far more complicated than that. Any number or combination of factors can be causing low boost. I personally only know how to evaluate boost gauge readings, not ECU ones (I have an earlier model A4 without this luxury) so I'm kind of out of my element here. And unfortunately, most n75 tests involve watching your boost on your boost gauge. Another reason why everyone, even more so chipped people, should have a boost gauge

fed0ra
11-26-2014, 09:24 AM
I know you all are a smart bunch...what is limiting the factor? ECU asking for higher boost but not getting it.

We can't just magically figure that out without having the car in front of us. Do a boost leak test. Unplug the N75 and see what boost you are getting - this should put you at wastegate pressure. It's possible that one or more of the hoses that connect to the wastegate and the N75 are torn causing issues with it controlling boost.

Most important thing is to do a boost leak test.

Saskwatch
11-27-2014, 10:53 AM
seems he wants to do everything but a boost leak test. so he can have fun with that. kind of like diagnosing a cel with a fishtank.

zabranca
12-05-2014, 03:58 PM
Finally got a chance to do some more testing. No boost leaks at all. Still ~7.5PSI with GIAC chip. I unplugged the N75 and I get 9/10 psi before the needle starts going crazy....my non conventional boost gauge only goes to 10 pounds. Is this a clear cut bad N75? I never had any error messages related to it in the past. I had thought a bad N75 defaults to 4-5PSI. Thank you again all.

M-Hood
12-06-2014, 01:25 PM
Finally got a chance to do some more testing. No boost leaks at all. Still ~7.5PSI with GIAC chip. I unplugged the N75 and I get 9/10 psi before the needle starts going crazy....my non conventional boost gauge only goes to 10 pounds. Is this a clear cut bad N75? I never had any error messages related to it in the past. I had thought a bad N75 defaults to 4-5PSI. Thank you again all.

It does default to the stock spring pressure on the stock tune, IIRC with an aftermarket tune it runs about 8-10psi which is about double the WG spring pressure. Only way you are going to be able to find out if it is a N75 valve issue is to swap in a good one.

zabranca
01-22-2015, 05:17 PM
Hello all,

Finally got a chance to swap out the N75 for a new one from ECS. Nothing has changed. Car will boost to about 10PSI with N75 disconnected and the usual ~7PSI with it connected. What are my other options?

redline380
01-22-2015, 05:27 PM
Have you checked the wastegate at all?

zabranca
01-22-2015, 05:34 PM
I have checked the wastegate for correct function. It opens and closes as it should using compressed air.

redline380
01-22-2015, 05:40 PM
I have checked the wastegate for correct function. It opens and closes as it should using compressed air.


How much pressure does it take to open?

zabranca
01-22-2015, 05:41 PM
Not sure, I can try using my compressor to open it up at different PSI levels. About how much pressure should it take to open?

redline380
01-22-2015, 05:43 PM
Not sure, I can try using my compressor to open it up at different PSI levels. About how much pressure should it take to open?

4 or 5 psi. you really need to hook it up with a regulator because you will never be able to tell without one exactly how much pressure it takes to open.

zabranca
03-03-2015, 06:12 PM
Well I went out and bought myself a replacement turbo. A genuine Audi kkk unit from a low mileage 1.8t. I thought I resolved all my troubles upon initial driving. Lots more low end torque and the car felt much more alive....then I ran into overboost issues and codes. Turns out my few moments of glory were due to an improper re installation of the n75 valve. After fixing that problem the car now is back to peaking at 6/7psi. Now, if i disconnect the n75, it will actually default to the 4/5psi limp mode. I just did a logging session and looking at my graphs, the ECU is asking for a max of about 13psi at WOT but again only 6/7 is being delivered. What gives? I cant imagine I have the same turbo issues with this new unit. Still no boost leaks to be seen or heard. I am going to change a few vacuum lines this weekend. Ideas?

pbcrazy
03-03-2015, 06:36 PM
Not a clue why you bought a replacement turbo when you still haven't done the proper testing, turbo was likely never the problem. My idea is that you actually do a boost leak test as we have been telling you, take a bottle of soapy water and spray it all over various vacuum hoses, if it bubbles you have a leak. Leaks are very common and can be hard to find, but you will get nowhere going broke throwing parts at it.

zabranca
03-03-2015, 06:42 PM
My old turbo was making strange noises and I got the new one for cheap, figured why not. I will test all vacuum hoses this weekend.

zabranca
03-04-2015, 07:11 PM
Just finished up looking for vacuum leaks. I removed the crankcase vent valve on the intake tube, blocked off the hole, pressurized the intake system to about 10psi. Sprayed everything down with soapy water, the only super small leak was from the suction pump at the rear of the intake manifold. I am talking super small leak, nevertheless i'll probably be buying a replacement. I did however notice that I could hear a bubbling coming from what sounded like the cooling system. I suppose it could be bubbling engine oil but it sounded much more like air was getting into the cooling system. The sound seemed to be coming from the low passenger side of the engine/engine bay. Should I be worried?

I suppose I could have a crack in the turbo housing allowing air to get into the water jacket but the same noise was heard while the old turbo was installed, so unlikely there. A cracked head? Wouldn't I be having other issues like coolant consumption, white smoke, coolant/oil mix, overheating or no hot air to the cabin? I will test the system to see if it holds a vacuum this evening. Am I chasing an unlikely culprit?

zabranca
03-05-2015, 10:00 AM
Here are some boost graphs I made this morning....

The first is a graph I made from a log file. 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear pulls - 2nd and 3rd at WOT.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/2/medium/BoostMap.png

This is another from a separate run but similar results
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/2/BoostMap2.png

Below is measuring block 032 at idle. From what I have read, the first readout should be +/- 3% and the second field should be between -10/+10%, which it is. Which I assume means no substantial boost leak.

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/2/AudiA4MB032.png

zabranca
03-09-2015, 06:06 PM
Boost gauge came today, hooked it up and same thing, topped out at about 8PSI....thoughts?

Turbo_B5
03-09-2015, 06:59 PM
Sounds like a boost leak. I have one and have 2 different tuned ECUS, with one (APR 16psi) I boost all the way to its programed PSI and with the other ecu (K0mpressed 18PSI 93OCT) I only boost to 14PSI.

zabranca
03-09-2015, 07:11 PM
I feel as though I have pretty much ruled out a boost leak. Sprayed everything down, pressure tested etc.

Turbo_B5
03-09-2015, 08:13 PM
So you did somthing like this?

http://www.a4mods.com/index.php?page=webcontent/pages/boostleak.html

zabranca
03-10-2015, 03:53 AM
I used that write up to make my pressure tester a while back

harrowb5
03-10-2015, 09:28 AM
could also be your wastegate

Turbo_B5
03-10-2015, 09:31 AM
have you tried a mechanic?

zabranca
03-10-2015, 10:51 AM
It could be a wastegate problem but I swapped turbo's to a low mileage unit and same problem. Trying a mechanic is not in my vocab haha. Haven't been to one in 20 years.

zabranca
03-18-2015, 07:16 PM
Any other ideas fellas?

harrowb5
03-19-2015, 10:52 AM
i say dump that chip and just go get ur other ecu flashed

DeathLens
03-19-2015, 12:23 PM
Any other ideas fellas?

I know you just said you swapped turbo's but after a long run of diag on my fiance's car (chipped with no increase of power from stock) we found that the internal wastegate was cracked and basically bleeding pressure.

zabranca
03-20-2015, 07:05 PM
I guess it's always an option. I think i'm done, not sure what else it could be. I have stock power which ill just have to stick with.

zabranca
11-06-2015, 06:54 PM
Well I'm back again with the same problem. I went ahead and got my stock ECU flashed. Pretty much the same results (or lack thereof) from the first try. I certainly notice better throttle response but maybe a 5-10% gain in power. Tested for boost leaks again to no avail. Ill attach a picture of graphed results from my 2nd thru 4th WOT pulls. No dice and I don't see what is holding me back? I feel like its got to be something mechanical....

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/BoostMap_Flash.jpg


Here is the graph from last time if that helps at all (GIAC Chip)

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/2/medium/BoostMap.png (http://www.audizine.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=79156&title=boostmap&cat=2)

OverSpun
11-08-2015, 02:10 PM
Any other ideas fellas?

To stay on the same page...

To reiterate what someone said in the first page- the chipped ECU that you bought was absolutely outdated (many years back). Now you are using a different ECU that you had flashed at your local GIAC dealer...?

A few things that you need to look at-

1. (Depends on your car's year) Look at your check valves because they are plastic and they crack and leak. If you do not have a boost gauge, yet... definitely get one ASAP to resolve these type of issues. Your car should idle @ 20hg vacuum.
- You have 1 of these check valves on the top back of the motor: https://c1552172.ssl.cf0.rackcdn.com/36398_x800.jpg
- You may have ~5 of these check valves. 1 is nearby the intake box, also nearby the previous check valve. Lastly, below your intake manifold. https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSj7qWTm0M1WRwzqGIY5u4Rwo2Ct3ibe 1Kx49pZLMVAu3wTr3cb
- You have 1 of these, also nearby the top/back check valves. Suction pump, those also go bad after time- http://www.urotuning.com/v/vspfiles/photos/058133753D-2.jpg

Last- Check your MAF, and diverter valve (the factory DV can't handle much more than factory boost.)