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View Full Version : Does this price Quote I Recieved Seem Extremely High and Expensive???



MPOW33R
07-29-2014, 04:40 PM
2001 Audi Avant A4 Quattro 1.8T AWM Auto/Tip
Diagnosed as - Timing Jumped and Valves Bent.
Car is inoperable.
Won't even crank and compression is 0 all the way across.

3 Shops said the same thing I opted to go to the shop
that seemed most interested and knowledgable although
all 3 were Euro Specialists.

Here is the breakdown and pricing that just seems absurd to me.

Estimare for
REPLACING TIMING BLET, and CYLINDER HEAD

Parts -
(QTY) - (Part)
1- Cylinder Head Gasket
1- Head Bolt Kit (all new head bolts)
1 - OE Red Coolant
1- Oil Filter
5 - Motul X-Cess 5/40
1 - Timing Belt Kit with Water Pump
1 - Serpentine Belt
12 - Valve Guide
8 - Exhaust Lifters
12 - Intake Valve
8 - Exhaust Valve
12 - Hydrolic Lifters

Parts - $1,390

Replaces Valves Guides and Cut Seats $500

Labor $1,970

Grand Total $3,860

Any takes?

ps- someone on the forums DMs me and said , I can adjust the timing
if its a few teeth off and get it to start, it may cause more damage
but most of the damage is already done.

My reply was how would this help my situation? no answer yet.

Bordom
07-29-2014, 04:53 PM
This seems stupid high for a head and timing belt replacement. Cheapest solution would be to source a junkyard head from the wrecker that is still in good condition. swap it out with the head you have now and you're good to go. Plus:


1- Head Bolts

Why would they only replace one head bolt? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I would be able to correct me, but are there not at least 6 head bolts holding the head down?

I also don't see why you would need to replace lifters if the timing jumped.

Bikeboy7890
07-29-2014, 04:59 PM
This seems stupid high for a head and timing belt replacement. Cheapest solution would be to source a junkyard head from the wrecker that is still in good condition. swap it out with the head you have now and you're good to go. Plus:



Why would they only replace one head bolt? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I would be able to correct me, but are there not at least 6 head bolts holding the head down?

I also don't see why you would need to replace lifters if the timing jumped.

I may be wrong, but I assumed that it was working on the principle that the head bolts generally come as a set. Like you said, who'd ever replace just ONE? Even if only one broke or something, you'd usually want to replace all of them anyway.

GrapeBandit
07-29-2014, 04:59 PM
stupid high price and there are 10 headbolts. think op made a typo. get a used working head and replace the stuff yourself.

MPOW33R
07-29-2014, 05:02 PM
I re read the quote and its a head bolt kit so i assume its all the ones needed.

I have no idea for the other parts, i iwsh i was more mechanically inclined, i just
lost my marbles at the price and am trying to see how many people will say
think its FAIR or RIDICULOUS and what alternatives I may have.

Bikeboy7890
07-29-2014, 05:04 PM
Also, I agree with GrapeBandit here. Do the work yourself if you are physically capable. Not only will it be cheaper, but you come to know your car much better and it helps you look for more problems. I have a 2005 Civic in addition to my A4, and the civic currently has a blown head gasket. I am in the middle of replacing it. Just can't get the stupid crank bolt off of that b****. While working on the car, I found out that the oil pressure switch has snapped in half in the back of the block. Time to replace that too. Do the work, learn the car, have fun.

Invite a couple buddies and provide beer for assistance duties. Makes for a great time spent IMO. I even had a dedicated computer friend, for all my interim problems with my grease soaked hands.

Toolaa
07-29-2014, 05:07 PM
If a shop is going to do the work they really have to make sure the repair works, so they cannot really offer you a service where the repair "MIGHT" work. So it's normal for them to replace everything which could have or may have been damaged. Otherwise if the work is not really 100% done, even if you agreed to a partial repair at a lower price, you'll be back asking them to spend more time (Labor$) trying to fix the same problem. So while it's a crazy amount of money it doesn't surprise me.

You can DIY this yourself between $500-$700 in parts.

Used Head $200-$400
Bolts $20 / Set
Timing kit, including belts, water pump and Coolant $220
Head Gasket $35-$75
Valve Cover Gasket $15
Oil and Filter $30

There is a good head gasket DIY as well as plenty of Timing Belt DIY's here on AZ.

If you didn't even have one tool in your garage you could probably buy enough decent tools to do the work for an additional $250 and you would still be way ahead.

MPOW33R
07-29-2014, 05:08 PM
I appreciate the advice - time is of essence and - i need to sell the car
or get it fixed asap. I really like the idea of just buying a used head
and swapping it out. I will search that route for now. Good to know
that I was getting hosed because I just couldnt grasp 4K for the job.

GrapeBandit
07-29-2014, 05:08 PM
replacing the heads on our cars are fairly simple. it may be a bit intimidating if you have never done it before, but if you can follow directions, I say go for it. there are a few writeups on it as well as a bentley and haynes manual.

I say get your hhands dirty and dig in, that is if you have the time to do so

GrapeBandit
07-29-2014, 05:11 PM
If a shop is going to do the work they really have to make sure the repair works, so they cannot really offer you a service where the repair "MIGHT" work. So it's normal for them to replace everything which could have or may have been damaged. Otherwise if the work is not really 100% done, even if you agreed to a partial repair at a lower price, you'll be back asking them to spend more time (Labor$) trying to fix the same problem. So while it's a crazy amount of money it doesn't surprise me.

You can DIY this yourself between $500-$700 in parts.

Used Head $200-$400
Bolts $20 / Set
Timing kit, including belts, water pump and Coolant $220
Head Gasket $35-$75
Valve Cover Gasket $15
Oil and Filter $30

There is a good head gasket DIY as well as plenty of Timing Belt DIY's here on AZ.

If you didn't even have one tool in your garage you could probably buy enough decent tools to do the work for an additional $250 and you would still be way ahead.harbor freight tools will cost half that and get the job done

or: purchase a working used head. purchase GrapeBandit a round trip flight from FL/CA for a week stay. put me up in a room. hit me off with a stack and I will supply the parts and bring my own tools. I never been to cali, would be nice. do you have a dispensary pass[evilsmile]

viceprp
07-29-2014, 06:18 PM
Junk yard head
Head gasket
Exhaust manifold gasket (take the head off with turbo on)
Turbo -> mani gasket
Intake manifold gasket
CV gasket
CTS (both, green behind the block and off the rad by the drain plug)
Head bolts
Red coolant or green universal (if already used)
Oil & filter (change after the head is buttoned up
New spark plugs
TB kit
Accessory belt

I changed mine twice (was warped and didn't know) and still was under $600. It's really not too bad. We can get you rolling and help you each step along the way.

MPOW33R
07-29-2014, 06:35 PM
You guys are awesome !!

Looking into heads on ebay with warranty, there is a shop near my house
that wil test it for me for $60 and one seller will pay shipping both ways
if it fails the test and only asking $380 with 88K miles on it.

Also found a refurbished head for $500. I dont mind spending 500 just
dont know if having a head thats been working opposed ot one that was rebuilt and
but no proof of functioning sent.

BaseDrifter
07-29-2014, 08:02 PM
If you have a place to work on the car, my offer stands to lend a hand where I can.

MPOW33R
07-29-2014, 08:28 PM
Base Drifter thanks for the offer and yes i can walk you to the dispensary however
I cant foot the travel and expenses for you to come out =)

zandrew
07-29-2014, 08:41 PM
Do it yourself. Its not that hard and I am sure there is plenty of Ziners on here that is in your area that would offer some guidance. You can get a good used head and do this yourself for a lot cheaper.

MPOW33R
07-29-2014, 08:59 PM
Fellas -

I found an awesome Cylinder Head on eBay the seller has great reviews
and is offering a warranty @ $400. Awesome communication thus far as well.
Im feeling good about this and will pull the trigger tonight. Still unsure if I will
do it myself, I just dont trust my commuter in my own hands , and the longer
this sits in my garage the more I have to put miles on my W211.

If there is someone local to me and has awesome knowledge,
I WILL provide, beer, pizza and a clean 2 car garage + cash.
I have no tools to offer other than my 2 hands.

My Euro mechanic quoted me $700 to install with
water pump, t-belt, cam seal, coolant flush, oil change
and all gaskets. (anything else I should ask for or do while in there)

i.e. head bolts? serpentine ?

Im in Walnut Creek, CA 18 Miles from SF 60 Miles from Sacramento
10 Miles from Berkeley.

Head should be here Saturday or Monday

RENOxDECEPTION
07-29-2014, 10:01 PM
Find out if the head has been decked already.

viceprp
07-30-2014, 12:53 AM
Have them install maintenance parts. Thermostat , coolant temp sensors, ect

Buy the parts and have them install if you're not comfortable.

walky_talky20
07-30-2014, 05:37 AM
$700 for labor is not too bad for all that. That puts you at $1100 for the repair, which is a bargain. People pay that much or more at the dealer for just the timing belt job, and you're getting a brand new top end.

As for "while you're in there" stuff, there is bunches. I would definitely do:
- coolant flange (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Cooling/Coolant_Flanges/ES277615/) + all o-rings (sensor o-ring, hard pipe o-ring (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Cooling/Coolant_Flanges/ES250825/), maybe a new sensor too. (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Cooling/Temperature_Sensor/ES2535452/))
- If PCV is well busted, do that too. For the AWM, you will at minimum need this guy (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Emissions/PCV/ES258895/) and this guy (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Intake/Breather_Hoses/ES2708697/) and 3 clamps (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/General_Purpose/Clamps/Hose/ES263953/). The rest is not critical to at the same time.

And would consider:
- If the coolant tank (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Cooling/Expansion_Tank/ES261828/) is nasty, good time for that.
- Thermostat (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Cooling/Thermostat/ES261231/) and housing (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Cooling/Thermostat/ES2628497/) are not a bad idea.
- Oil cooler (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Cooling/Hoses/ES2627319/) hoses (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Cooling/Hoses/ES2627305/), if they are swelling up near the clamps.

GrapeBandit
07-30-2014, 06:16 AM
$700 isnt murder on tje price, but you can find cheaper. im sure you can find a forum member to do it for about $400. I know id do a head job for $400 every day of the week

nynoah
07-30-2014, 08:54 AM
- coolant flange (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Cooling/Coolant_Flanges/ES277615/)


- housing (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Cooling/Thermostat/ES2628497/) are not a bad idea.

Do not buy either of those parts as after market parts. They WILL fail. Spend the extra 30% and buy it straight from the Dealer. I know, I went the after market route with BOTH of those parts and BOTH of them failed in no time and not at the same time. So I had to rip into the engine like every other week for a little bit dealing with crap after market parts failing at different intervals. Buy those two parts from the dealer or reuse the stock ones. Aftermarket will fail in hot environments.

On that note... NEVER buy an aftermarket Cam chain tensioner either. NEVER!!!!!

chris164935
07-30-2014, 10:07 AM
That quote has them replacing everything. You really don't need 20 brand new lifters, and it is very unlikely that all 20 valves are bent. But, for all of that, the only pricing that seems high is the cost to replace the guides and cut the seats.

Also, if $400 is for a head with all brand new parts, I'd be pretty skeptical. That's about the price of 20 new valves. Shoot, people are selling bad heads that need work for about half that price. I'd say the cheapest way that would net you the quickest turn around is pulling your head and having a machine shop fix it.

MPOW33R
07-30-2014, 05:39 PM
I opted for the Tested and Warrantied Cylinder Head opposed to the refurbished one.
I didnt feel comfortable buying it and it not being tested or having a warranty.

The guy is super legit with a ton of reviews on his cylinder heads alone. I paid $400
OTD and he will pay shipping if i need to send it back and will refund me within
72 hours. It has 88K miles on it and its been completely looked over,decked, inspected
and cleaned out. Its complete and bolt on ready. I wil be changing and looking
over all the parts everyone has suggested. I do feel im getting a great deal to be OTD
at just about $1,100 (opposed to the 4K) i was quoted without so many extras that I needed..
It will rise a bit due to the car being opened up and me swapping
out a few extras. Really excited to get my Quatt back on the road !!

thank you allllllllllll !!!!!!!!!

nynoah
07-30-2014, 05:42 PM
I would suggest replacing some stuff when the head is off. Replace the rear coolant flange. But only use a stock one. Its not too much more compared to the aftermarket part and won't warp as easy.

chris164935
07-30-2014, 07:58 PM
Good luck with the install. Just take your time and don't rush, especially if this is your first major rebuild. Didn't see it mentioned but make sure you get a new gasket for the oil drain line for the turbo. You will probably also need a gasket for between the turbo and catalytic converte. Also, I'm assuming you'll have to swap the camshafts and tensioner from your old head to the new, so make sure you get the gasket set for the VVT. I think you can get all of these gaskets in a cylinder head gasket set. Other than that, I would recommend just holding out until you pull your original head off to determine what might be broken (or what you might have accidently broken) and what parts you'll need. A lot of that stuff can get expensive and will add up quick.