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Guntard
07-08-2014, 09:08 AM
Hey, how's it going? I am new to this site, but not new to cars or Audi's.

So, after my big turbo 1.8T B5, I was tired of the 1.8T because everyone has one and they are so done up that there is almost nothing you could do that was unique anymore, so I decided to do a 4.2 ART V8 build.

I picked up a 2000 A6 C5 4.2 with a bad trans or bad TCM not sure, and didn't really care lol. But I drove it home, it just wouldn't shift out of 3rd gear. Paid $800 for the whole car, clean title.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2628_zpsdd11ff23.jpg

Then I picked up a 1998 A4 with the 2.8 V6 that needed a clutch and I also drove that one home as well lol. Paid $1,000 for it.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2647_zpsed3d645d.jpg

I got to work pulling the engines out. and of course the A6 brakes are going on the A4.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2643_zpsfe3243f6.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2712_zps28153531.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2663_zps07bbc1be.jpg

I am using the South Bend stage 2 clutch for the 2.8. The clutch in the A4 was gone lol

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2664_zps89a9c929.jpg

Engine is all bolted up and put in and sitting nice. I had to use the whole sub frame engine mount plates from the A6, otherwise the engine sits too far back and it will be a bitch to get it to drop in.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2665_zps1652fe49.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2720_zpsae44abc2.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2719_zps2954dec6.jpg

Now, the part that's making things difficult is the wiring. Since I am using a '98 A4, which is DBC and not DBW, I have to convert it. (I couldn't find an A4 DBW for less than $2,500, so I had to get what I could, before you say "should have bought a 99-2001.")
So, I have the harness from the ART 4.2 and I don't want to pull the dash out to change the whole thing. I know you can rewire the harness to match, I just need the diagram for the A4. I have the one for the A6. So, if someone has it, that would be awesome lol

bhusted
07-08-2014, 09:35 AM
Welcome! It looks like you're making some good progress.

You will basically need to add the white plug in the ECU box to the DBC car. This contains the controls for the DBW pedal as well as cruise control and brake/clutch switches. I just cut the necessary wires out of the A6 harness. No need to rewire the whole dash. The A6 pedal cluster will bolt in to the A4, just add the clutch pedal and swap the fat brake pedal for the skinny one. What are your plans for cooling? It looks like you have the V8 radiator sitting next to it, but I think it will be too wide to fit between the headlights. The challenge you're going to have is the ECU tuning. The ART ECU will be tuned for the TIP transmission and will do some funky stuff. In so far as I could find, the ART ECu cannot be flashed for the manual transmission. I had to adapt the ART engine harness to use an AWN ECU. This also involved swapping to the newer cluster, etc.

Guntard
07-08-2014, 09:49 AM
hey thanks for the reply they car is all ready manual do i still need to swap the whole peddle assembly over? and i am using the 2001 ecu ME7.1.1
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2667_zps0a5b7e3e.jpg
and cooling have a vr6 mk4 radiator i plan on using. and what about the body harness the plugs don't fit the engine harness to the body harness

bhusted
07-08-2014, 10:35 AM
You'll need to swap the pedal assembly because the A4 is DBC and does not have the mounting for the DBW throttle pedal. Are you certain that the engine code is ART? Perhaps this is a very late build 2000 that actually got the AWN? I'm not sure what you're referring to with the body plugs that don't fit. The new engine harness should have 5 plugs (orange, brown, red, black, and white). The DBC body harness should have 4 plugs (orange, brown, red, and black. You'll need to check each pin to make sure that it's the same for the body side and engine side. I only had to move a couple pins around, but that was possibly a different harness if you have an AWN.

Guntard
07-08-2014, 11:02 AM
Yes, it is an ART. I bought the ECU later. It is from a 2001. The car is a 2000 had the me 7.1 ecu all the stuff I read said that the ART ECU couldn't be tuned, so I got the newer one. I want to check the pins, but I can't find the pin out for the A4.

the a6 body plugs
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2731_zps662d8f31.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2730_zps99fa73d0.jpg

the a4 plugs
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2729_zps66e6112a.jpg

redline380
07-08-2014, 11:38 AM
I am using the South Bend stage 2 clutch for the 2.8. The clutch in the A4 was gone lol

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2664_zps89a9c929.jpg









So many 4.2 swaps!! I want a ride in one of them once. But I quoted the pic because that is the same thing that happened to my stock clutch. I wasn't even able to shift when the car was running. Surprised you got it home like that. Anyways, good luck on the build. Wish I could help but the v8 swap is over my head. I heard that bhusted kinda knows what he is talking about though [;)]

Guntard
07-08-2014, 11:47 AM
I have read a lot of good from his posts, so I take his word for knowledge. I had to rev match all the gears and I couldn't stop lol. I did have my buddy behind me with a car to push me to get going lol. It was a lot cheaper than a tow truck.

bhusted
07-08-2014, 11:55 AM
Yes, it is an ART. I bought the ECU later. It is from a 2001. The car is a 2000 had the me 7.1 ecu all the stuff I read said that the ART ECU couldn't be tuned, so I got the newer one. I want to check the pins, but I can't find the pin out for the A4.
the a4 plugs
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/Gunner_Rudd/IMG_2729_zps66e6112a.jpg

You'll have to make some modifications to the engine harness to run the newer ECU. Those are documented in my thread if you click on my sig. ddillenger was most helpful with that part. I see what you mean about the A4 body plugs. Maybe this is because the car is pre-facelift. I've only ever dealt with facelift cars. You may want to get in touch with tinytim. He's working on an AWN swap and is using a '96 car. He had some sort of harness compatibility trouble like this. I think you're going to have to pull apart the dash in both cars to the point that you can cut off the plugs and splice everything together. You'll also have to update the cluster to work with the newer ECU. Without the VSS from the cluster, the ECU will limit engine speed to 6k rpm, cruise control will not function and readiness tests won't run if you're in an area that requires emissions.

Mad Cow
07-08-2014, 12:06 PM
Is the B5 a 12v? Because that's gonna make your life quite a bit more difficult. There's no getting around swapping the dash harness, and I'm not even sure how compatible the two harnesses are. There's another use here, tinytim, that's swapping a v8 into a '96 but I don't think he's at the wiring stage yet.

Guntard
07-08-2014, 12:06 PM
do you have access to the wiring diagrams to either car that i can get to start the wiring process? and fyi you are the one that made me want to do this swap lol

redline380
07-08-2014, 12:09 PM
Is the B5 a 12v?.

he said the A4 is a 98. Also, the V6 pictured is a 30v. Dude did his research apparently

Guntard
07-08-2014, 12:09 PM
it is a 30v it is a 1998

Mad Cow
07-08-2014, 12:23 PM
he said the A4 is a 98. Also, the V6 pictured is a 30v. Dude did his research apparently

Didn't even notice that picture, whoops. That's really odd then, I know the 12v has completely different connectors but I had no idea some 30v's had them too.

Guntard: What wiring diagrams do you need?

Guntard
07-08-2014, 12:35 PM
the one to the body plugs of the a4 pictured and maybe the ART if you have them i found some from tinytim but he is using a different setup them i so i would think they are different so i would like to have the diagram to verify

Mad Cow
07-08-2014, 12:54 PM
the one to the body plugs of the a4 pictured and maybe the ART if you have them i found some from tinytim but he is using a different setup them i so i would think they are different so i would like to have the diagram to verify

Here's the best I could do, the engine codes don't match because for some reason some engine harness diagrams only show up under Euro engine codes. These might not be 100% perfectly applicable, but the important stuff such as body plugs should be identical.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63667361/ART.pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63667361/early%20AHA.pdf

If I remember correctly, I sent tinytim a diagram for a 2001+ v8, which might be the one he sent you. If that's the case, you can use it for adapting your harness to the later ECU.

Guntard
07-08-2014, 01:03 PM
Here's the best I could do, the engine codes don't match because for some reason some engine harness diagrams only show up under Euro engine codes. These might not be 100% perfectly applicable, but the important stuff such as body plugs should be identical.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63667361/ART.pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63667361/early%20AHA.pdf

If I remember correctly, I sent tinytim a diagram for a 2001+ v8, which might be the one he sent you. If that's the case, you can use it for adapting your harness to the later ECU.

thanks a lot i will see what i can come up with and i will let you know and post what have when i finish

bhusted
07-08-2014, 01:13 PM
I have the ART diagrams. PM me your email address and I can send those. BTW, you can use the A6 rear calipers on the B5 as well. You just need 269mm rear rotors from an A8.

Bordom
07-08-2014, 02:55 PM
SUBSCRIBED!

I've got a 96 and was hoping to get into the 4.2 swaps as well. I've been reading through Siena's Audi V8 Into B5 A4 - The Facts thread located here: http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/a4-s4-rs4/22760-audi-v8-into-b5-a4-facts.html

Questions
1. Are you using the original Dual Mass Flywheel with the Southbend Stg 2 Clutch?
2. Any plans to rebuild the trans? (longer 5th gear, refresh)

Guntard
07-08-2014, 05:35 PM
SUBSCRIBED!

I've got a 96 and was hoping to get into the 4.2 swaps as well. I've been reading through Siena's Audi V8 Into B5 A4 - The Facts thread located here: http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/a4-s4-rs4/22760-audi-v8-into-b5-a4-facts.html

Questions
1. Are you using the original Dual Mass Flywheel with the Southbend Stg 2 Clutch?
2. Any plans to rebuild the trans? (longer 5th gear, refresh)

1 i am using the dual mass with the stg 2 yes

2. no not as of now i will see how it rides i want go to the 6 spd eventually but finding one and funds don't allow lol

i am going through the wiring right now and and matching up and figuring out what needs to go where wheni i am done i will post it up

Bordom
07-08-2014, 07:05 PM
1 i am using the dual mass with the stg 2 yes

2. no not as of now i will see how it rides i want go to the 6 spd eventually but finding one and funds don't allow lol

i am going through the wiring right now and and matching up and figuring out what needs to go where wheni i am done i will post it up

Excellent! I have a chance at a 97 A8 4.2 ABZ and the only thing really holding me back is the wiring. I'm not very confident/clueless on how to get all the wiring in order.

Guntard
07-08-2014, 07:55 PM
Excellent! I have a chance at a 97 A8 4.2 ABZ and the only thing really holding me back is the wiring. I'm not very confident/clueless on how to get all the wiring in order.

so far it isnt as bad as i had thought. once you figure out how to read the diagram lol it makes life way easier. lol but i havent gotten all of it yet so i am still working on it

Guntard
07-08-2014, 07:57 PM
Excellent! I have a chance at a 97 A8 4.2 ABZ and the only thing really holding me back is the wiring. I'm not very confident/clueless on how to get all the wiring in order.

but if i am not misstaken that is a 32v v8 and it is dbc so i am not sure what you would have to do it may be a drop in swap I am not sure don't quote me

bhusted
07-08-2014, 08:23 PM
but if i am not misstaken that is a 32v v8 and it is dbc so i am not sure what you would have to do it may be a drop in swap I am not sure don't quote me

The 32v V8 is DBC. There is a member (wolfe2118) on here that has one running in a B5. I'm not sure what all is needed for the wiring, but it is less of a 'bolt in' swap as custom engine mounts, etc. are required.

Bordom
07-08-2014, 09:53 PM
The 32v V8 is DBC. There is a member (wolfe2118) on here that has one running in a B5. I'm not sure what all is needed for the wiring, but it is less of a 'bolt in' swap as custom engine mounts, etc. are required.

Having just read through wolfe2118's short thread it looks as though the ABZ will drop in with little to no hassle with an A6 V6 subframe. I'd send the ECU from my donor 97 A8 to k0mpresd and have him do what he did with wolfe2118's. As far as my pre-facelift cluster goes, it looks as though I will have to source a facelift one from the wrecker.

Guntard, I will be relying heavily on your new found wiring expertise to teach me a little more down the road [;)]

For now, it's a lot more research until I have it all narrowed down.

Guntard
07-19-2014, 11:29 AM
Ok so i kinda decided to change the dash harness 1 because i didnt really want to do a custom wiring and two because i found a 2001 a4 for $400 just had no title all good for me. plus it had the black interior. so i am having to pull the hole interior and change it all i will post pics when i can.

wolfe2118
07-19-2014, 03:53 PM
Having just read through wolfe2118's short thread it looks as though the ABZ will drop in with little to no hassle with an A6 V6 subframe. I'd send the ECU from my donor 97 A8 to k0mpresd and have him do what he did with wolfe2118's.

No, the ABZ will not drop in easily with any subframe. You will absolutely need to build your own engine mounts. I slapped some together with the transmission mounts bolted down to get the engine in place then rebuilt them later to make them pretty using these
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-4102g?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KEQjwrqieBRCln82Rgufz7I0BEiQAPNjAIykEFXRo irx-e3KsIR7Hawa3fcZvko53fUvMXqVm1wEaAlBH8P8HAQ

I am not using the front snub mount and have very little movement in my drivetrain.

The ABZ is very easy to wire in. give the ecu power/grounds, connect the fuel pump relay wire, and sensors and you are running. Have the immobilizer coded out and you are good to go. My car is a daily driver with the stock S8 ecu file and I've never had drivability issues. No need to mess with trying to code it for a manual transmission, I tried the 96 S6plus ecu file that is already coded for a manual trans and the car would die when I tapped the throttle. I'm thinking I would need to get S6+ parts(maf, injectors, cams, et al.) to get it to run right.

Guntard
07-25-2014, 12:35 PM
has anyone ever converted a car from DBC to DBW if so how did you do it?

bhusted
07-26-2014, 07:29 AM
I did. You bolt in the pedal cluster from your A6 donor. You can simply swap brake pedals and add the clutch pedal to the A6 pedals. Strangely enough, the pedals are held in by two bolts that run through the brake master cylinder. The new DBW throttle can now be added. Pulls the white plenum plug from the A6 and all wire associated with it. These will go to the DBW throttle, cruise control switch, brake switch, and you'll need to add the clutch switch wire.

Mad Cow
07-26-2014, 10:02 AM
If you're gonna go through with this I can send you a diagram I made of my pedal harness. It's actually not complicated at all, bonus is you bypass the old flaky cruise control system since it's all done on the ECU now.

Guntard
07-26-2014, 01:33 PM
i got that my only problem is that none of the other plugs fit i got the dbw it is everything else

Mad Cow
07-26-2014, 02:45 PM
Sorry I got confused since there's 2 people asking questions in this thread. In your case you'd be best off adapting the A6 dash harness, the other option is cutting off all the connectors and soldering in the A6 connectors, which shouldn't even be an option since it's hacky as hell and you'd need to pull the dash to reach them anyway.

Guntard
08-20-2014, 05:59 PM
ok so changing the body harness is a no go there is alot more that is different then you would think. so i went back with the first idea and wired in the harness as best i could. ther is still alot of wires that left over and there is some things that dont work like the obd2 port and the speedo and the rpm gauge but it runs and drives fine i am driving with the 2000 me7.1 ecu till i can find a facelift car to swap all this into but right now it runs and drives and pulls very nice i love the torque it is very tasty lol.

demon_s8
07-11-2015, 10:31 PM
Hey im hopeing someone can help me in this forum....I'm in the middle of doing the b5 v8 conversion. But it won't start. I'm wondering if anyone can help me out. When utilizing the dual mass flywheel, do you remember if all bolts lined up? When I have the engine set at TDC and try and have the home position on the flywheel at the CPS, all the bolts don't go in.

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demon_s8
07-11-2015, 10:53 PM
No, the ABZ will not drop in easily with any subframe. You will absolutely need to build your own engine mounts. I slapped some together with the transmission mounts bolted down to get the engine in place then rebuilt them later to make them pretty using these
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-4102g?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KEQjwrqieBRCln82Rgufz7I0BEiQAPNjAIykEFXRo irx-e3KsIR7Hawa3fcZvko53fUvMXqVm1wEaAlBH8P8HAQ

I am not using the front snub mount and have very little movement in my drivetrain.

The ABZ is very easy to wire in. give the ecu power/grounds, connect the fuel pump relay wire, and sensors and you are running. Have the immobilizer coded out and you are good to go. My car is a daily driver with the stock S8 ecu file and I've never had drivability issues. No need to mess with trying to code it for a manual transmission, I tried the 96 S6plus ecu file that is already coded for a manual trans and the car would die when I tapped the throttle. I'm thinking I would need to get S6+ parts(maf, injectors, cams, et al.) to get it to run right.
Hey I'm in the middle of doing the b5 v8 conversion. But it won't start. I'm wondering if you can help me out. When utilizing the dual mass flywheel, do you remember if all bolts lined up? When I have the engine set at TDC and try and have the home position on the flywheel at the CPS, all the bolts don't go in.

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Nollywood
07-12-2015, 01:52 AM
The ABZ swap needs custom mounts, otherwise the wiring is pretty easy. I have never used an ABZ, I have however used an AHC which is pretty much the same.

I fitted a 40V in a 1985 90 Quattro back in the 1990's, converted to DBW. Challenging as back then, there was no internet, meaning zero support. I spent my days working for an Audi dealership, and my nights dissecting wiring harnesses. It took me 2 months to get it running, but it was a blast to drive, well worth the hard work.

I can dig out, and scan the B5 A4 wiring diagrams if you still need them.

I am currently doing 2 more V8 swaps. One is an S8 32V (AHC) into a 2000 DBW B5 2.5 TDI V6 Quattro, the other a 40V (BFM) from a 2005 A8 4.2 Quattro, into a 2000 DBW B5 2.8 V6 30V Quattro. This will be running an S6 ECU for ease of manual coding, and more aggressive tune.

Both 6-speed 01E's.

Nollywood
07-12-2015, 01:55 AM
Hey I'm in the middle of doing the b5 v8 conversion. But it won't start. I'm wondering if you can help me out. When utilizing the dual mass flywheel, do you remember if all bolts lined up? When I have the engine set at TDC and try and have the home position on the flywheel at the CPS, all the bolts don't go in.

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You've lost me here.

Do you mean you've installed the flywheel, and the engine won't run? Or you can't get the flywheel bolt holes lined up with the crank boss?

What donor engine are you swapping, and what is your base car?

demon_s8
07-12-2015, 09:33 AM
You've lost me here.

Do you mean you've installed the flywheel, and the engine won't run? Or you can't get the flywheel bolt holes lined up with the crank boss?

What donor engine are you swapping, and what is your base car?
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/12/3bc79feeb4de535cb21618b9a220aaa8.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/12/690b8eba7335b1b7ed6b6a92b06bb835.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/12/02865289d32ab64a7b84f176c14420f0.jpg

The engine is from a 2003 c5 4.2, the body / Trans is 2001 b5 2.8 . When I have the engine @ TDC and try to align the home position at the CPS 2 bolts refuse to align for insertion into crank shaft at the flywheel (dual mass) .

When I previously bolted the flywheel where all bolts aligned with flywheel and crankshaft , the vehicle refused to start. I had fuel & spark but no bang. The most I would get is a backfire in the intake and heavy vapor of fuel with continuous cranking .

Has anyone experienced this before , and if so how was it corrected. The engine is from a car that ran and drove without issues and the ECU has already been flashed by ddillenger.

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Nollywood
07-12-2015, 10:00 AM
I take it this is a 30V flywheel?

Which crank sensor are you running, and are you using the thin aluminium spacer or not?

haliceaa4
07-12-2015, 10:08 AM
The bolts only go one way if they aren't lined up then it's wrong does it really matter the paint mark?

Nollywood
07-12-2015, 12:41 PM
I've never used any paint marks as references. The flywheel bolt holes are offset, so only fit to the crank boss in one position. Unless something has shifted drastically, the engine should run, assuming there is communication between the ECU and engine.

Backfiring into the plenum chamber would certainly suggest a timing issue. I would be looking at:

Crank sensor - is the orientation / air gap correct?
Coil pack connectors, orientation. Though it's virtually impossible to get them mixed up, considering their lengths.
ECU - damage. Unlikely, but not impossible.
Flywheel firing ring orientation. Spun on the flywheel? Never seen it happen, or know if it can, but still...
Transmission-to-engine spacer. If incorrect, the crank sensor will get an implausible signal.

I still don't know what flywheel was used here.

demon_s8
07-12-2015, 08:36 PM
I've never used any paint marks as references. The flywheel bolt holes are offset, so only fit to the crank boss in one position. Unless something has shifted drastically, the engine should run, assuming there is communication between the ECU and engine.

Backfiring into the plenum chamber would certainly suggest a timing issue. I would be looking at:

Crank sensor - is the orientation / air gap correct?
Coil pack connectors, orientation. Though it's virtually impossible to get them mixed up, considering their lengths.
ECU - damage. U likely, but not impossible.
Flywheel firing ring orientation. Spun on the flywheel? Never seen it happen, or know if it can, but still...
Transmission-to-engine spacer. If incorrect, the crank sensor will get an implausible signal.

I still don't know what flywheel was used here.
I used the oem dual mass from the v6 2.8. I only used the paint markings to reference where the CPS sits on auto as apposed to manual trans. I even went as far as using the automatic CPS and it still didn't work. I have a spare flywheel from the 2.8 v6, and all markings and settings match with the one presently on the vehicle.

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demon_s8
07-12-2015, 08:40 PM
I used the oem dual mass from the v6 2.8. I only used the paint markings to reference where the CPS sits on auto as apposed to manual trans. I even went as far as using the automatic CPS and it still didn't work. I have a spare flywheel from the 2.8 v6, and all markings and settings match with the one presently on the vehicle.

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I also just confirmed with dillinger that the ECU didn't appear to be faulty and took the flash without incident . This is insane.........

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demon_s8
07-20-2015, 10:28 AM
BAD GAS was the culprit guys...... she started today with starter fluid. Thanks to everyone for their guidance. Now to drain 3/4 tank of bad gas.

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